GRRRRR MARTIN

Why do people bother with epic fiction when Pynchon already perfected it?

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Anyone remember how Song of Ice and Fire was received on this site before it got a popular TV show? The near universal adoration among nerds and fantasy fans? I sure do.

lol take your genreshit and go

I was saying this shit in 1998, faggot. The original pitch for ASOIAF read like something out of Wheel of Time. It was compact, tight, lacked extraneous elements and was less than a page fucking long. It was supposed to be 2-3 books with a nice, crisp story.

Instead we now have this 16000000 page series that is never going to receive a satisfactory conclusion and is 2/3rds lamprey pie and honeyed hams. For what? What story of consequence is actually being told here?
Do you think we're ACTUALLY going to get a satisfying resolution to the Dornish plotline?
Do you think we're ACTUALLY going to get a satisfying resolution to Victarion and Euron's machinations?
Don't be stupid! He's just going to fucking die, and they're going to have to bring in Brandon Sanderson to finish his book for him. He's doing this on purpose, too, because he CAN'T finish the book himself without either having Jesus Christ appear at the end and save everyone, having Dany basically take over as bitch-queen of the kingdom, or having everyone die!

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I dismissed it as genre shit after watching the show and finding it not actually good but just tv good, but like a year ago I decided to give it a try. I read bits on an off for like half a year then finally when I was about halfway through the first book, specifically when Ned dreams about his riding toward the tower holding his sister and him and his eight companions facing off against the three Kingsguard led by Arthur Dayne with his moonlight greatsword, did I really realize that this was some damn good shit. Since then I've been hooked, just finished book 4 and I love it. His prose may be more direct and less flowery than something like Book of the New Sun but Martin is a damn fine writer and at character, pacing and plotting.

Woah!!

I don't hate him as much as the rabid fanbase that spews on incessantly about this and that. Tv shows and books aren't a personality, stop pretending it is, Karen.

I haven't read him but I've recently started watching the show. It's amazing how demoralizing his stories are. His worldview seems to be that life is entirely random, that there is no God/truth/heroism, everyone is out to get you. He clearly hates women and has constant rape fantasies which likely explains his psychological need to promote various social justice memes. He wrote himself in white knighting as Sam and couldn't even in a fantasy novel imagine himself as not being a cuck. It's really bad from a moral point of view, no wonder the film industry picked it up. I feel pity for the author.

I think Martin is good, but only if you actually view his writing as comic book writing without pictures, specifically Marvel comics of which he was a fan of. The way Martin treats death is a direct criticism to how laughably inconsequential death is in the comics, he probably put a lot of thought into what is a meaningful death and impactful death of a character by seeing his favorite comics fucking it up time and time again. As death is an important aspect of Game of Thrones, a lot of story arcs that go on or end abruptly entirely stems from his experience with comics.

So, I think Martin is probably one of greatest comic book writers of all time, maybe on par with Sin City Frank Miller, but not novel writers. Even when you watch the HBO adaptation of his work it is strikingly similar to what MCU is doing with their.

He shows that Daenerys was an ineffective leader who made bad decisions, though.

>le I hate popular things!!
That doesn't make you cool or likable, just a ginormous, edgy pseud.

i despise him for making a ton of money and fucking all the asian ladymen he pleases

don't be puerile

Is anyone really excited for Winds of Winter though? There's going to be differences with the show, sure, but the show already spoiled:
>Stannis loses at Winterfell
>"hold the door"
>Cersei gets revenge on the religious cult
>Jon and Daenerys are related
And then this season will have the night king being defeated and then somebody winning the iron throne permanently.

What could Martin even do in Winds of Winter that would surprise or shock anybody?

>reads Peterson once

I have no reason to despise him. He's a pretty good writer and accessible to normies. Some tolkienfags in here who are probably also larping as catholics can't help but cast stones at him because they feel insecure that his grim take on fantasy is often compared to their sacred cow writer. I find the whole thing hilarious. Judging by interviews I've seen him in, he seems like a pretty likable guy. As a writer, I can understand that people shouldn't rush him with his writing, but also suspect that he might actually have dug himself into a hole by killing off too many good characters and isn't sure what to do with the rest.

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protip: liking popular things doesn't make you interesting

Now this is what I call projecting.

2/10 obvious bait, get the fuck out.

All the Littlefinger scenes, the Dwarf's Penny, interest rates going up on Cersi in Dance...

Have you only seen the shitty show and just bitch at anything that's popular?

>What could Martin even do in Winds of Winter that would surprise or shock anybody?

Actually publish it.

I haven't read anything by him. I said 10 years ago I would wait for him to finish the series, because I hate having to wait for a next book. So far feels like a good choice.
Also never saw an episode from the show, but I don't watch TV or movies anymore anyways.

It's not bait, that's how I see it and I don't know how you can see it differently. Maybe the books aren't that obvious but I doubt it.

+ who the fuck writes nihilistic medieval fantasy? That's the one place where you expect heroism and transcendent purpose.

>larping
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

The Haviland Tuf stories were okay, but he deliberately wrote them in the style of Jack Vance rather than his own, so that probably explains why they are so readable compared to the rest of his works.

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I have never watched the T.V. show, but tried to read the GoT books. Just didn't care for it, never made it out of the first chapter of the first book.

Well, for one,
>He clearly hates women and has constant rape fantasies which likely explains his psychological need to promote various social justice memes.
You go from saying he hates women to then saying he promotes social justice? Your logic of psychology and character seems flawed.
>rape fantasies
Hmm, maybe. Or one can argue that rape can be used as a big trigger or tool to establish the tone of the story. Or, one can even argue that rape and despicable people were perhaps just as common a part of reality back then as it is now.
Maybe you should stay away from dark fantasy, and stick to the classics which hand you a more sterile and cliché read.
Variety is a good thing.

I've only watched the show but I enjoy it for what it is. I look at it as an experiment to build a world and set it up and just let things happen with no concern for any larger structure or purpose in the story and it's entertaining as that. It probably shouldn't ever be judged as serious art or compared to Tolkien.

I don't despise him, he's kind of like King. Nothing serious, but fun. Why do you hate fun user?

Hate his fanbase though, but that's the same with most pop literature.

Damn, could you sign my arm?

>You go from saying he hates women to then saying he promotes social justice? Your logic of psychology and character seems flawed.
Not him, but I know a couple guys irl that are into feminism heavily (to get laid) but actually have a deep resentment with women.

I smiled

>four scenes of tax policy
>five thousand pages of """intrigue"""

shut the fuck up you god damned rat

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Variety isn't a good thing in itself. If art is just demoralizing while targeting a youthful audience it seems rather evil to me.

Social justice is an ideology which is carried by all sorts of sinister characters. Especially men who support this creed are suspect. He makes his female characters powerful to satisfy the politics and protect his self-image but then he sexually degrades them, often in public. This is the psyche of bridge troll looking man who has experienced nothing but rejection from desirable women.

Oh please, you know nothing about the classics if you think they're sterile. GOT can be summarizend as have hope and you will get burned. That's neither imaginative nor new.

Fucking hate her stupid fucking face bring me the staple gun

Wow OP, you're such an individual for hating something that's popular.

>back then
um... user are you...
are you retarded?

they should be like me and resent women and not be into feminism to get laid. trust me hoes love being brutalised and treated like dirt

>implying GoT won't end by revealing that we are the descendants of Daenyrys and that Night King fella

Fair

I'am reading the second book now and having fun so fuck you. Also Shireen is cute

I wasn't saying anything in 1998 you fucking ancient boomer, get out of here

>implying GoT wont end by turning the POV to the reader and asking you how you think it will end; thats the end.

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Martin is not an SJW.
These books were all written before 2011. The culture war bullshit only became glaringly prominent shortly afterwards.
His first book was published in 1996.
As an aside: The first book has arguably influenced one of the best "story-driven" videogames of its time, final fantasy tactics.
Bait. Next!
I believe he's been with the same person since... fuck knows.

Your timeline is wrong. The first politically correct erruption happened in the '90s but feminism of course went batshit long before that. It's not that Martin is an obvious ideologue. The point is that he superficially affirms their hierarchy and shares their philosophical nihilism. Again that is gathered from the series not the books but that certainly is the overwhelming impression.

+He's not in it to get laid. He doesn't want to see himself as a bitter woman hater so he does something inconsequencial like having 'strong female characters' while (preferably sexually) torturing and killing those characters. It's strange that people don't see the central role that plays in his work. It's very much about degrading/breaking desirable women. If it weren't such nihilist poison the political types would have demonstrations against him.

Just googled it: apparently the book series features 214 rapes. What the actual fuck.

A non-entity. A second rate comedian and a fifth writer. I loathe him.

>214 rapes
ontop of many killings.
>pic related, my face
Let me put it to you this way
If I was a feminist, I'd consider his story anti-feminist and would actually consider his work disgusting before even getting through the first book.
Fortunately some people like myself don't allow first-world culture war bullshit to poison their thoughts to the point that they can't enjoy a genuinely brutal, war-centric fiction.
Thankfully, the story's tragedy does its job by triggering my emotions by connecting female characters to the main characters, then getting me to connect to the main characters, and then either threatening the main characters by hurting the female characters, or threatening the female characters by killing the main characters.

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The left accuses anyone of racism so actual racists have become difficult to identify. Same thing happens with feminism and actual misogynists. It's not about the violence it's the staging of it which reveals the psychological intent. Although distracting and pathetic that's not even specifically why I dislike the series, I mainly reject his work for its nihilism. It's not pleasant to watch hours and hours of desperate hatred towards existence.