Holy mother of based

we need to ban this book

>Dearcy
>antisemites literally can't read words correctly

kek-O!

absolutely shitter shattered. Imagine having to go through life like this lmao
>DONT YOU REALIZE THIS AVOWED FASCIST FAMOUS POET EVENTUALLY SAID SOMETHING NICE ABOUT JEWS WHEN HE WAS 60 YEARS OLD?
>YEAH THAT'S RIGHT BUSTER NOW GO AHEAD AND AGE 40 YEARS BEING PAID BY JEWISH PUBLISHERS AND GROW UP THIS INSTANT

@ all of you faggot this book is literally about an effette jewish cuckold. Nice historical revisionism. Typical commies ;^)

As I understand it, "Pound considering his antisemitism a waste of his life" was itself something quoted by a Jew with no other documented evidence.
From Wikipedia:
> Allen Ginsberg states that, in a private conversation in 1967, Pound told the young poet, "my poems don't make sense." He went on to say that he "was not a lunatic, but a moron", and to characterize his writing as "stupid and ignorant", "a mess". Ginsberg reassured Pound that he "had shown us the way", but Pound refused to be mollified:
>'Any good I've done has been spoiled by bad intentions—the preoccupation with irrelevant and stupid things,' [he] replied. Then very slowly, with emphasis, surely conscious of Ginsberg's being Jewish: 'But the worst mistake I made was that stupid, suburban prejudice of anti-semitism.'
But you don't think someone would do that, right? Just go on record on behalf of an ideological enemy and lie?

uh-oh, looks like someone doesn't pay attention to what they read! See Weird how Haine's also mentions worrying about england falling prey to german-jewish usury in a book published in 1922. Daily reminder the author is also dead.

When did anyone talk about Pound’s antisemitism? Joyce had some pretty next-dimension views on the world and you’re viewing his work from the most basic plane. Ezra was extremely involved in the modernist scene, and the idea that anyone associated with him shared his worldviews would qualify every modernist as antisemitic.
The funny thing is, there are many moments in Portrait / Ulysses / Wake which go into “the nature of jews” but I guarantee you they’ll go over your head.

>weird how antisemitic peoples were portrayed as such
Joyce would be laughing at you

Actually sweetie, I have it on authority that Joyce would be laughing at you. You can tell because I am so cocksure about it and also condescending.

>can't emphasise with Poldy
>mentions 'historical revisionism' as if it has anything to do with thread
>'typical commies' ???

>thinks revoking and denouncing what was a huge part of his personality is just 'saying somthing nice'
>screams on the internet
>is never going to be convinced against his views because he's too far down the rabbit hole of literally blaming a religion for the actions of individuals
>is kind of like Pound when you think about it except one has notable and good works and the other spends his time in his internet safe space

>the rest of the world sees everything through the same lens as meeeeeeeeeeee! muh ideological enemies!

>two minor charactors in the least notable parts of a huge book about a lovable jew
>but it was published in 1922!

[obligatory guffaw of kinds]

btw look up Pound's economic writings, he really didn't understand how capitalism works at all

Also top lmao at implying that "anti-semitism" wasn't the gold standard for all of time until after wwii. Have you read the bible? You seem like a bit of a brainlet :(

>"loveable jew"
>he reads for characters
>he reads his intentions into the characters
>he's a plebeian
It's okay tiger maybe one day you'll grow up

What? The gold-standard? The gold-standard of what? You barely even know how to speak English – please, learn how to speak English.

>has nothing to say against the points so ad hominems
>despite knowing nothing about who he's talking to on an indigenous phrenology forum
>thinks it's other who have to grow up

well, i'm convinced

Joyce is laughing at you bud. Maybe you should re-read Ulysses, sounds like it's a bit over your head? It's alright, it's a tough book.

your retarded and I know you never met that book. In this section Stephan is talking to an anti-Semitic character, a reflection of the antisemitism of the period and Ireland's relationship to it, the irony and the joke is that the perspective will switch to Bloom (an ethnically Jewish catholic convert) who turns out to be a human being and not a sinister Jewish stereotype

>he can't understand basic idioms
>he thinks he understands james fucking joyce in spite of this
>LEARN TO SPEAK LITERAL ENGLISH LIKE ME, SOME ESL NON-ENTITY
>he can't understand basic idioms
>he thinks he understands james fucking joyce in spite of this
Oh my poor sides

>your retarded and I know you never met that book
excuse this whole sentence, I am tired

Okay, you're clearly retarded. You spent your whole mass reply committing adhoms. Either refute a point like an adult or spread your cheeks for the blowback.. Were you even smart enough to read the book?
Take a deep breath and do a bit of self-reflection. If you're incapable of that, stop breathing at all.

Adding onto this, I find it much more convincing that Bloom is supposed to be made fun of more than he is supposed to be seen as a hero. It's not hard to understand: The novel is a parody of the Odyssey, and so the "heroes" are parodies of Telemachus and Odysseus (In other words, they're both losers). They may be sympathetic but they're still ultimately an autistic spaz and a cuckold. Neither of them get what they want by the end of the novel. Would love to discuss this further if you're interested or have other thoughts.

Let’s clarify: you have autism. That’s not a joke, I now clearly see I’ve been conversing with an autistic person.

>“Doesn’t realize antisemitism was the best thing of it’s type”

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Imagine being some retarded ESL who learned english 3 years ago watching anime dubs and can't understand a basic turn of phrase and yet doubling down. What suffering.

>It's not hard to understand: The novel is a parody of the Odyssey, and so the "heroes" are parodies of Telemachus and Odysseus (In other words, they're both losers). They may be sympathetic but they're still ultimately an autistic spaz and a cuckold.

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>blazenly displays his stubborn stupidity as like a limp penis on a beach
>doesn't get this reference
>doesn't know that Joyce is literally forsaw all this kekkery and wrote of 'the froggy jew'
>doesn't know i've read the wake and some joyce texts he's never even heard of

>as above
>thinks one can just stop breathing
>doesn't realise that people he disagrees with can also use irony
>hasn't noticed I responded to the one point actually made, though it was hardly a point at all
>post a paragraph of opinions without any quotes to back it up, just 'makes sense because it's a parody of the Odyssey' - btw the autist spaz becomes the author you nonce

that's not how the term 'gold standard' is used. are you a foreigner or something?

Coming from the fucking retard spazzoid who just
>your retarded and I know you never met that book

brainlet. Joyce is turning like a rotisserie chicken in his grave over this.

>Adding onto this, I find it much more convincing that Bloom is supposed to be made fun of more than he is supposed to be seen as a hero. It's not hard to understand: The novel is a parody of the Odyssey, and so the "heroes" are parodies of Telemachus and Odysseus (In other words, they're both losers). They may be sympathetic but they're still ultimately an autistic spaz and a cuckold. Neither of them get what they want by the end of the novel. Would love to discuss this further if you're interested or have other thoughts.
And this makes joyce anti-Semitic because? the anti-jewish stereotype revolves around them being in a conspiracy, not them being losers.

>thinks joyce would give a shit when he literally knew his scatological letters would be published after his death
>still triggered

>two poo in loos or Mexicans or whatever who can barely understand conversational english are here to tell us that we don't understand joyce
The hebrews harbor disdain for you swarthy folks as well, sorry to be the one to inform you :(

ITT: Russian Gaslighter

I know you're triggered, the histrionic pleading is a pretty clear indicator of the circumstance and you don't need to narrate it in the third person.

don't you start trying to Yea Forums-ify Yea Forums

>and so the "heroes" are parodies of Telemachus and Odysseus (In other words, they're both losers).

Can you really not see beyong the winners/losers dichotomy? like, does your sense of social existence not go beyond that? really?

>still doesn't understand that irony is a universal human trait

O lordy

scared?

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I'm not convinced you understand irony at all with this reply to that post, let alone english. It's okay pajeet or paco or mbeke or whatever, I'm sure you speak enough English to propel yourself into a nice case of the clap from your rancid native harlots every now and then. No need to fret.

so, what was Yea Forums's thoughts on the trailer?

you fucking retards are arguing with your own side

Wtf I LOVE JOYCE NOW

what the actual fuck is this thread

i'll admit mbeke is pretty funny, but, if you don't think I know english from that post, please tell me what you didn't like. Here's the post again:

>still doesn't understand that irony is a universal human trait

O lordy

OK, go! (if you don't respond I'll now actually assume you're a moron-for-life) (naw just kidding I have faith in you)

>you're arguing against your own side by laughing at some retard who can't take a basic, basic turn of phrase without posting a google screenshot and proudly screaming I CAN TECHNICALLY SPEAK ENGLISH

a couple of mongoloid rightists being baited hard

"btw the autist spaz becomes the author you nonce"
Ah so it's a book of nonfiction, then? I think this is the mistake of most critics of the novel. We know, in real life, that Joyce goes on to be successful and to create the art he wants to create. Stephen is surely Joyce's self-insert, but I don't believe that this necessarily binds his fate to Joyce's. Is this a possibility you can entertain?
This was not part of my claim. I believe, however, that the main route academics take to debunk the idea that Joyce was anti-semitic is to point out Bloom's status as a hero in the novel. I disagree with this premise, and so I do not consider the claim of Joyce's anti-semitism to be debunked.
>the anti-jewish sterotype revolves around them being in a conspiracy
This is not entirely true. There are mainstream aspects of anti-semitism that involve the particular nature of jews that can manifest itself in individuals. Conspiracy is not strictly necessary, though I'll admit this is what Deasey implies in OP's passage.
I made a five second post on an imageboard, friend, and invited further discussion. My point was more that an inversion of the source material would change the roles of the protagonists. "Loser" might not be the best term for either Stephen or Bloom, but I certainly don't consider either one a "hero."
Also, consider that the Odyssey as a work of fiction exists within a dichotomy of good and evil. Dichotomies which we use to judge characters aren't useless, though society has developed a larger fascination on the "morally gray" in the past century.

It's amazing how just from a two minute trailer I was able to gather that this is the most important movie to have been made yet. Maybe not in terms of filmmaking, but in terms of how it will affect humanity. The world's going to look a lot different after October fourth. Things are going to get really scary. I'll either be safe locked up in my bunker or running among the other Jokers, clad in face-paint and newfound insanity.

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your board is bad and you should feel bad, thanks for ruining /film/ jerks

Reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight

rofl

no, you guys are all arguing the same point in the conversation - that is the antisemitic stance. Instead of arguing against the side that claims that joyce isn't anti-semitic, you attack your own side.

>he's posting in my b8 thread
>he's ESL
>he thinks he understands joyce
>he's racist against asians while defending jews
wew

You really need to learn to speak english and should fuck off out of this thread and work on it because you have absolutely no idea what is going on
>these are the people telling you that you don't understand joyce

>Ah so it's a book ...

You missed the point bud. What's so wrong about being an 'autistic spaz' (a claim which really needs justifying btw, not that he isn't a times autistic, but he's also at times sublime) if you can develop out of that to be the foremost author of a century? Joyce without his past would have never written the wake, for sure

Similarly, while I wouldn't care to be cuckolded, it is somewhat shortsighted to dismiss Bloom on this basis, not least because it's reductionist - he enjoys much of his day and has an intensly interesting inner life. If Bloom is content with himself, then who are you to call him a loser? He is beyond what others think of him

jokes on you bud she's dead! also, thanks for absolutely humiliating yourself on the internet, keklet

>Similarly, while I wouldn't care to be cuckolded, it is somewhat shortsighted to dismiss Bloom on this basis, not least because it's reductionist - he enjoys much of his day and has an intensly interesting inner life. If Bloom is content with himself, then who are you to call him a loser? He is beyond what others think of him
holy fuck lmao "cuckolding is the thinking mans's fetish" - the post

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now THAT's some weak bait - asian? r u kidding me prof?!

reductionist again

I hope you're doing this on purpose because otherwise... it's a really bad look dude

It's pretty ironic that you have no understanding of irony whatsoever. Now reply to me.

You really need to learn how to speak English. Throw 'mongoloid' into google real quick you retarded third world piece of illiterate animate trash
>these are the people telling you that you don't understand joyce
Aaaaaahahahahahahahaha

>he's racist against asians while defending jews
you fucking know that just because he used 'mongoloid' doesn't mean he is anti-Asian, this /pol/tard tactic annoys me to no end because its retarded.

A non-right winger is politically correct - waaaaahh censorship controlled by Jews, lighten up and free yourself

A non-right winger doesn't give a shit and is politically incorrect -
haha hypocrite, got you, ur a racist ur a racist haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

you are conflicting several posters to one person in your head. Yes I was the one that posted that retarded "you never met Joyce" post, but my posts were rare in this thread and you were mainly arguing with someone else. I am from the U.K, English is my favourite tongue, but it 1.16 here and I was just trying to learn Russian (I am on Duo-lingo level Russian, level 13 of Duo-lingo to be specific, but I am reading a double-language edition of Gogol's nose to speed up my learning) so my head is completely fucked rn and I think my ability to comprehend anything has been degraded by how much of a grammatical mindfuck Russian can be.

This is one of the most autistic threads on Joyce I have ever seen holy fuck

>cuvier race classification

no-thx!

Please stop projecting, its unbecoming.

>favourite
I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD I WROTE NATIVE, EITHER I AM HOPPING DIMENSIONS OR RUSSIAN SERIOUSLY FUCKS WITH YOUR BRAIN.

NO WONDER GOGOL WENT FUCKING MAD!

You are shockingly retarded. I'm not even going to bother to go through it
>these are the people saying you don't understand joyce

IM GONNA SAY IT

Atrocious thread, this post included.

It's quite funny desu, especially these accusations of incorrect english which are just wrong, like, what is this?

Go through it, and make an actual argument rather than just attacking me. Do it, and if you don't you automatically admit to your post being b8.

do you post on Yea Forums by any chance? Not to attack those who post on Yea Forums, just asking....

WOW! once more just for luck!

(bless your soul you poor poor man)

Joyce was very left-wing, and was definitely not an anti-Semite. You can see this from sections like Cyclops, where Bloom talks about universal love.

it's not as good as that one thread were I had an argument with some guys from /pol/, and I just quoted their posts while posting pictures of the Reddit robot the whole way through

Oh, autistic people are often the most sublime. I think most genius comes from autism. Isn't autism partially defined by severe limitations in all but one or a few types of cognition? Sometimes that one type of thinking is absolutely useless, but you sometimes get a type of genius like that of art.
Does Stephen himself find this success, though? No, I don't think so. The book itself is art, but the character is kicked out of his house and his only savior is an awkward cuckold (whose help he rejects anyways--an underratedly important part of the book's conclusion). He fades into the dark, completely untethered to the world around him (I suppose you could argue that this was his goal, to be completely untethered from reality so that he can make pure art).

On the question of Bloom, I believe you're deploying a kind of tactical nihilism. Who are we to judge any character? I want to judge Bloom. The purpose of criticism is to judge the work and "figure it out," and I want to figure out what Joyce is trying to tell us, if anything, from the Bloom character. Again, back to the point I was originally making regarding his status as a "hero" or not: Bloom is a central pillar to the question of Joyce's anti-semitism.
To your specific point about him being happy on the inside: We could imagine characters with interesting internal lives who sit around stoned all day--would it be wrong to judge them? I don't hate bloom, my contention is that he is not a hero.

OKAY can the non-autists please get in here please (btw that mean if you think 'the jews' is some kind of entity with it's own evil will &c. you're not welcome)

>Isn't autism partially defined by severe limitations in all but one or a few types of cognition

No, it's not.

Also, Steven isn't autistic - you need to support these claims with evidence

>Does Stephen himself find this success, though?

Unknowable, and I think even asking this questions shows your limits in conception: we don't know if he gets 'success' or not, and it really doesn't matter - Joyce gives us a day in a life, with all it's vastnesses, and to just think about whether the characters will have 'success' or not misses the point, which is that life can be extrodinary and beautiful and valuable even without 'success' - Bloom enjoys his life whatever the rest of Dublin thinks of him and regardless of the fact he's a cuck. He enjoys his relationship anyway, and isn't bound to it forever (let's not forget he plans on divorcing, but 'not yet')

>The purpose of criticism is to judge the work and "figure it out," and I want to figure out what Joyce is trying to tell us, if anything, from the Bloom character.

This is one way of criticism, sure, but I think it's pretty low-level to think about what an artist is trying to 'tell us': what is Monet trying to 'tell us'? what is Tarkovski trying to 'tell us'? What is Crane trying to 'tell us'? What is Léonin trying to 'tell us'? -Nothing concrete, nothing reducable to few lines of explaination such as 'Leopold is a loser' - but rather something like an intense expression parts of the myriad forms of being

>Bloom is a central pillar to the question of Joyce's anti-semitism

This isn't a question any more that Joyce's anti-Islamicism is - there no reason to believe this apart from your weak reading of Ulysses - you need to provide some concrete evidence that doesn't come from reading a work of fiction

>To your specific point about him being happy on the inside: We could imagine characters with interesting internal lives who sit around stoned all day--would it be wrong to judge them?

Ignore the fact that this quite a hyperbole, it again seems like you want to reduce art to moral interpretitions, when it really is so much more - and what more reason is there to judge these stoners who presumably mind there own business than there is to judge, say, a load of capitalists whose systematically exploit vast swaves of third world worker (who have no choice but to work or starve?)

Not that user but all artists are trying to relay a message of some sort. To think they have these super complex elements interwoven into a story is ludicrous.
>nothing concrete, nothing reducable to a few lines of explanation
Again behind all art is intent. The only other option is to put down nonsensical ideas. I think the problem with viewing someone as a "master of the craft" is that it puts them at level of prestige and mysticism on them that they hardly deserve. At the and of the day, people are people. You are either attempting to tell a story or produce something you think is original. Most "high level" art is masturbatory.

Mind the grammar. My point still stands

>all artists are trying to relay a message of some sort
I don't know if I agree with this, at least not in a niave way of 'I want my readers to interpret my work in this way'

That seems to me like the hallmark of a shallow artist - take the wake for example: Joyce isn't trying to 'say' anything, except perhaps that language is capable of so much more than it is usually used for. To interpret any of the scenes of the wake as something Joyce wanted to 'convey' in the banal sense seems to me to miss the point

Also, somewhat mystically, I'm not sure that authors often even fully understand the works they right - and this explains why so many great writers produce masterworks whose height they can never again reach. But perhaps this is just me reading too much Harold Bloom

>Most "high level" art is masturbatory.
What do you even mean by this? It's certainly not in that it's private and only gives pleasure to the author. Though no doubt they get off on it as well

*the works they write

excuse me too

>if you don't explain to me in detail why my prolonged whinge about your half-joke asian racism comment is retarded you are LE BAITING XDDDD BTW DO YOU WATCH ANEEMAY?
kek whatever you need to believe you fucking moron. If I call that guy a kike I'm not actually being anti-semitic right? Or that only applies to "mongoloid" because it doesn't really sound like a genuine slur and is employed by vapid, milquetoast cocksuckers online who are used to being unable.to just call someone a dumb faggot? Kys retard.

Imagine not even knowing our board's demonym

>12903695
>12903697
>phoneposter

>everyone in the past had modern understanding of race relations

Retard alert

>Imagine reading Ulysses without an understanding of Irish nationalism.
We don't have to imagine; we have this whole thread.

>The novel is a parody of the Odyssey
But it's not.

>If I call that guy a kike I'm not actually being anti-semitic right?
Depending on the context, it could just be a random insult that doesn’t mean you hate the Jews.
Proof:
Ur a kike

If you think the book is promoting hatred of jews because a few characters inside of it hate them, then aren't you thinking just like the strawmen you put up on the left?

>if you think *overly dramatic certainty* about your le funny thread then XYZ
Shut the fuck up you histrionic cocksucking retard.

It's not a coincidence that Joyce made Bloom, the despicable anti-Odysseus Ulysses, Jewish.

Bloom is:
>a cuck
>confused towards his identity like a bunch of eurojews in those days
>a lecher
>political coward
>weak willed
>a pervert who wants leprous whores to sit on his face while he's dressed as a woman

Pound was plying Joyce with redpills on the JQ during his literary career

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SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh my God you're funny!

Why are you reading a book whose primary character is a jew if you're antisemite? That's like reading Proust and thinking he was homophobe... lmao
You basically defend yourself with the fools of the past, and this fool ain't even a fool, this fool is the caricature of a fool! Jesuschrist.

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what's this from

>Why are you reading a book whose primary character is a jew if you're antisemite?
Because I'm evidently significantly more intelligent than you. What kind of retarded question even is this lmao do you automatically agree with something because you spent time on it? I mean, that does seem to be the MO of the lefties on this board.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So, your prefered chapter is the one were The Citizen spews all his bullshit?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Based

Yeah I read the entirety of ulysses between yesterday and today and it's clear to me that James Joyce was the foreshadowing of hitler because I posted an excerpt from chapter two and wrote "based". How fucking stupid are you?

I don't really understand you, sir. Is that irony?
James Joyce was indeed the foreshadowing of Hitler, but to read Ulysses and think is antisemitic is pure confirmation bias. You'd think a stone is antisemitic for God's sake.

I really cannot even imagine being as dumb as you and similar posters ITT. *shniff* pure ideology

You can't imagine a carrot at the end of the shtick, my friendo.

I guess I'm a marxist now with this post. Crazy shit. Thanks for showing me the way user. You're such a nuanced thinker.

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哈哈哈 As ever never discussing Marx's points but just taking about him instead... Classic babybrain thought

Are you even lucid? You're hysterical user. The passage I posted is unquestionably based. The next sentence could be Joyce saying (authors note: I love jews and wish I was hasidic by birth) and it wouldn't detract from the passage's basedness.

Honk-honk!
honk!
HONK HONK!

I concur

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Holy mother of yikes, imagine having to live OP's life

Destroy all frogposters :3

have gender

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