Are there any books about learning to live with yourself despite having hurt people who didn't deserve it?

if you can't forgive yourself unconditionally, try doing it conditionally. go improve the lives of some random people.

This doesn't seem to work for me, as I feel it's sinister and doubt my own motivations when I'm being nice to people now, i.e. am I just trying to compensate for being an asshole in the past? I was watching the video of Richard Proenneke, the guy who lived in the wilderness for several decades in old age, and he seems like such an innocent, genuinely good people. I feel disgusted with myself for not being able to retain my childhood innocence and clean conscience into adulthood.

Practicing self-flagellation does not make one a masochist. If it were to have any therapeutic benefit, then being such would be a preclusion rather than precondition.

this... all you can do is repent and try to be a better person in the future. punishing yourself, even wanting to kill yourself to atone for the guilt, is perfectly fine

>trying to compensate for being an asshole in the past
that's more than most assholes end up doing. you're not the worst.

At this point I see only two options:

1. Live as ascetically as possible, doing my best to help others while denying myself pleasure let alone praise etc.

2. Suicide

Not trying to be melodramatic or to portray myself as a saint, but I don't know how people can go about their daily lives having hurt someone, that is negatively affected their lives, and still be happy, cheerful etc.

user, I have this exact feeling. It's a bit eerie that someone else has felt this.

What I regret is that I've made comments like this in real life and it hurts me so much. I've said things in arguments, or even passing remarks, especially when I was young and stupid(er), that I regret so much, and I fear I've damaged peoples aspirations forever. Sometimes I feel that these people will go about their days and then my insult will pop into their head and launch them into despair.

Perhaps I think to much of this. But if it means anything, if typing out my sins on an anonymous image board absolves any guilt, I'm sorry.

The wages of sin is death

what you're feeling isn't guilt, it's shame.

doesn’t this lead to a Higher Power
we’re sinners
all of us

>wrote mean things about someone on the interweb
If that's typical of the shit you've done then get over yourself faggot.You aren't that big a deal.
Regardless, you will hurt fewer people in the future by being a person that likes themselves than one that hates themselves. Learn from your mistakes, be less of a faggot in future, and stop beating yourself up about it.

What do you mean?

I feel ashamed of myself for not living up to the high standard I'd like to think I've always set, and I feel guilt for potentially hurting people who didn't deserve it.

I've genuinely reconsidered the value of Christianity in recent years, namely the idea you mention of us all being sinners etc. But it also seems self-serving somehow, or justification somehow which neutralizes any individual sin you may have committed by simply equating it to some kind of essential sin.

people just don't care, they always find a way to justify it. people are evil. personally i live as ascetically as possible, am having less suicidal thoughts lately but it's always an option.
this, you should try to seek forgiveness from christ, atone for your sins, and try to make peace with yourself

that's good

Try to help people who are in a similar position to those you hurt, or try charity work
Failing that, there's always the option to numb yourself with SSRIs

Nice, so having done terrible things to other people, there is enough narcisicism and pathetic disgusting matter left in you that you can make things about yourself. You did what you did. You will never be forgiven, your actions will never be forgotten. You are deserving of misery and shame. It is the least you can fucking do. To want a way out of this shows how self-centered and insincere you are. You fucking coward. Face it, pussy.

if you were younger then you should find out who put the thought in your mind that you have to ace every conversation at that age

if you were older when you said them, then there is no hope and you should at least follow jesus christ on twitter

What's an example of an SSRI?

My main psychological problems are intense paranoia, near-constant self-loathing and a generally negative perspective on life masked by an almost hyperactive to please other people and burning myself out in the process.

>have to ace every conversation at that age
so when your older you have to ace every conversation?

It's not that I want a way out of anything, as I know things can't be undone. I am just wondering (books aside desu) on a philosophical or ethical basis, how a person can do unjustifiably hurtful things and even consider moving on from having done those things since atonement is not really an option.

dude you are literally me

Failing to move on doesn't achieve anything, so why would you be morally obliged to do it?

Contrarian folk-hero Michel Foucault once defined the two historical modes of punishment as “right to death” and “power over life.” The former was meted out in the name of the king: it was his “right” to punish, and the punishments were symbols of his rule. Hanging, pillorying, mutilating, branding, and the chain-gang—penalties were overt, public, and prurient. “If the executioner…managed to cut off the head with a single blow, he showed it to the people, put it down on the ground and then waved to the public who greatly applauded his skill by clapping.’” Glory and infamy surrounded the criminal as well, and crowds not infrequently rioted, either to free him or to tear him apart themselves.

Foucault states that this ritual vanished with the Enlightenment and the replacement of the aristocracy by the capitalist bourgeoisie. Now punishment acquires a humanitarian rationale: to re-educate, to reform. The death penalty wanes. The prurience fades. Punishment becomes a solemn duty meted out in private, becomes individualized, and then ceases to be a punishment at all. Instead, it sublimates into guidelines. Changes in infrastructure. Confessions of aberrance, classification, treatments for-your-own-good. Preventative measures. Power over the way life is lived. Silent, insidious shame.

t. psychopath

You know, Prozac, Lexapro, the usual stuff

That's what I'm wondering. A common advice I've seen when people admit to having failed on an ethical level is to just move on and try to be better, but it doesn't seem right for someone to ever reach a point where they can laugh, joke and feel happy and contented etc knowing that they not only have the potential to be harmful etc, but to have actually done something harmful. At this point, whenever I see someone who has done something negative in the news (minus sexual stuff or murder) I find myself incapable of judging them as I think "well I guess I'm capable of that, so who am I to condemn them?". I guess that relates to the other poster who mentioned Christianity, in this case the parable of the one without sin casting the first stone. But again I find difficult to accept that most people's personal failings and sins amount to anything more than harsh words spoken to close ones in anger, or something trivial like that.

You do not understand the severity of sin. To the spiritually dead, mentally inept and morally retarded "venial" sins or even mortal sins are seen as ridiculous or quaint. Christianity is focused on extreme humility. the "essential" impersonal nature of sin is not to find comforting solidarity with other sinners but to recognize by your very nature you at your best would still be worthy of eternal death for your evils.

Interesting, thanks. Didn't personal shame exist during those previous times though, especially in highly religious societies were confession, penitence etc were a part of one's weekly life?

when I wrote that part I remembered all the teachers who told me that I have no potential or who couldn't abstain from making some little remarks that went into the same direction, that shit didn't even drive me to success, at least ace them when you are talking to kids god damn it

Yes foucault is a hack and social engineering to have "power over life" has always existed and always been more prevalent than "power of death" even if technology and technique has made it more potent in modernity.

>I find difficult to accept that most people's personal failings and sins amount to anything more than harsh words spoken to close ones in anger, or something trivial like that
Perhaps you should try meeting some people. Or reading about them, given this is Yea Forums. People who have never done anything worse than that are the exceptions.
You can't change what you've already done. What will make you behave better in the future? Being a miserable fuck who hates himself, or being a happy, well-adjusted person who understands his past mistakes? (Hint: miserable people are cunts.)

Fair enough. What is your opinion of public figures, especially writers (who, in my mind at least, are expected to be more self-conscious and ethical than the average person) who sin and yet continue to welcome praise, attention etc?

Norman Mailer, for example, wrote some of his most popular books after stabbing and almost killing his wife. Other writers too did things quite obviously immoral, and yet continued to write, voice their opinions, express condemnation, etc. It seems so wrong, on an intuitive level, that they should do anything but keep their mouths closed and live quiet lives defined by humility and service to others, as I feel is one of the only two options available to me at this point.

>Foucault is a hack
nu/lit/ sucks.

where do you go to school?

whoremongers and concubines are ubiquitous. Every normalfag is an affond to themselves and everyone they associate with.

I just feel that happiness (which itself has always been rather alien to me, beyond a quiet, reserved contentment) isn't something I deserve, and that experiencing and sustaining it, seeking it even, is something that will only ever take place at the expense of people I may have hurt. It's like when you see an image of someone famous who has acted in very unethical and harmful ways, yet they are smiling in the photograph. It's unsettling to see that.

>you at your best would still be worthy of eternal death for your evils
So really whether on sins or not is of no consequence in the after life?

>what is foucault's deal with the devil
foucault is literally a faggot pop-philosopher who said "we won't criticize your economic system in any meaningful way if you give us unrestricted (mostly sexual) libertinism"

Can you just shut the fuck up? If I were your therapist, while you were spilling your guts out about how sad YOU feel for what you've done, I'd be imagining in my head letting my body fall off of my chair until I was in a very uncomfortable and unnatural position to which I would then scream in frustration, boredom, disgust, loathing, at how sapped in melodrama you are. You bring with you an air of awful insincerity; it is actually repulsive. There's nothing you can do. You fucked up. You are a shit human being. Don't make this about you. Least you can do is not hurt anyone again. Contribute to society. But as for your feelings, for your security and happiness, these are confiscated by your own morality never to return, and that is justice.

bitch

was meant for

How em I a sicko mode path?

I'm glad your not a therapist.

>happiness isn't something I deserve
No one deserves happiness. They're still better off with it than without.
Happiness is not a zero-sum game. Quite the opposite: you being miserable will only make other people more miserable. If you want other people to be happier, start by making yourself happier.

seems like an oversimplification but ok

Am I wrong though?

Of course it is, you are saved by Gods grace. Your virtue doesn't give you eternal life. God has infinite ability to forgive, but man has limited ability to repent (sincerely) sin kills the soul, one it becomes normalized you become an unrepentant sinner, you are given over to a reprobate state of mind. Sincere repentance can include penance, and depending on the severity of sin generally the acceptance that what you have you do not even want to be saved, as you have internalized you are deserving of eternal death.

I recommend reading the latter of divine ascent for some information on how the monks view this.

>(Hint: miserable people are cunts.)
degenerate

"God knows I'm not perfect, either. I've made tons of stupid mistakes, and later I regretted them. And I've done it over and over again, thousands of times; a cycle of hollow joy and vicious self-hatred. But even so, every time I learned something about myself." Misato Katsuragi

Apologize if you can, if not, realize that people make mistakes and screw up. You know what you did wrong and will try to avoid making those mistakes in the future.

Rather than explore the causes and motivations of the insincerity you jump into an emotional response with no effectual outcome.

>Misato Katsuragi

Damn, I was hoping this was a novelist.

>but ok
Passive aggressive pre-cum baby reddit/tumbler/newfag prose, adding to my filter list
reddit/tumbler/newfag prose, adding to my filter list

Low IQ post. Vapid modernist platitudes.

what you mean then is that 'you at your best' is not good enough because at some point before that state of being you sinned.

seems it achieved it's end in triggering you, bitchboy

Fair, but OP doesn't want to acknowledge what he's done. To whom, nor that he's sorry. You are absolutely correct in your detailing of my insensitivity and naivety. But sir this is the internet, let alone Yea Forums, I'm simply in here because I don't want to do my homework, I'm not gonna thoroughly analyze something as insignificant as this lmao. But, there is a reason for my hostility. Its becasue I know OP's type. I've seen it time and time again. He is a fucking child. He does not want to get better. He doesn't care about making things right, he only wants to feel right. This action alone can tell you how disguting and deserving of loathing OP is. It also shows how painful and absolutely maddening OP's fucking shallow pity party is. If I were his therapist, it would not be a surprise that when he told me the details of his insincerity, they would make me lament. I know OP is not a good person. He just wants, like a child, for things to just go away. He can't handle the effects of his actions. This I cannot allow. OP must face his mistakes and live with them. Even if they are a burning pain, never flickering away.

Reminder for everyone in this thread

God is not real you stupid fucks.

OP here, and I fully acknowledge what I've done. I wrote hurtful words about people who didn't deserve it, for unjustifiable reasons. I am sorry for this, it's just that I'm not sure if apologising will just make things worse because the person involved may not even have read my dumb posts.

As for the "making things go away", perhaps I've made it seem that way by the way I wrote my initial question, but I've also explained that I am consciously avoiding just forgetting or moving on from past ethical mistakes, as I don't feel it's right for me to do so. It would be absurd for me to think things can just go away, I am simply wondering how people can live knowing they have sinned, even if they've apologized, spent their life savings on charitable causes, and donate every waking hour to helping others.

"not good enough" it's that you never had the capacity to be good. You are born sinful. If you lived a life in vainglory and avoided any mortal sins or sins that in your perception are particularly heinous your very existence would still be an anathema to all that is good. By you at your best I mean you in your maximum possible idealized form. The ideal person in christianity isn't even someone who excessively avoids sin, as this is vainglory. it's a very humble sheep who is wholly dependent on christ and largely detached from passion/self. Cretins have a better chance of getting to heaven than any great person who contributed to humanity in some way.

>I wrote hurtful words about people who didn't deserve it, for unjustifiable reasons
you are getting sued and Vic is gonna win the case

I don't want to sound gay (since obviously everyone on this site is male), but I want to say I really like your writing style, very concise, no bullshit, enticing. Do you post here more often? If you aren't already, you should at least write a blog or some shit.

The worst part is when you feel you did something you weren't supposed to, but don't exactly regret it.
Shit happened with a chick I was asked not to touch because her ex is still suffering over her. He cheated on her, so she doesn't give a shit anymore apparently. I don't really know the guy too well so it's not like I owe him anything, but I've been where he is.

It's not a book, but something about it reminded me of Carl Jung talking about coming to terms with one's animalistic side. I want to be a moral person, but I can't chain the hounds of my sexuality all the time. Sometimes I really want to fuck a hot chick that's into me without overthinking it, and that's it.

>If you lived a life in vainglory and avoided any mortal sins or sins that in your perception are particularly heinous your very existence would still be an anathema to all that is good
What if ones perception aligned with everything that could possibly be a sin.

Vic?

See what I mean about you being dripped in this fucking melodrama? Like bruh, I had the assumption you stole a baby or like physically hurt someone. But just writing hurtful stuff? I mean okay, like dude you understand this is at the bottom of, if there were, a hierarchy of bad stuff you could do. This feeling you represent though is interesting. You have a complexion dear. Bright, flaming, and absolutely repulsive. But, like feces, you interest me. I wonder what happens when I smear you...

Anyways, you have this complexion, of a sinner. Someone who has done something so bad that they now exist in this void where nothing can be done to absolve them. Where you search for something to aid you. You understand the link bewteen what you've done and what you feel are absurd, right? Absurdity is a tell tell sign of a mental illness. I am honestly sorry for being a bit too mean, I am mean when bored. But OP like dude, relax. Nothing came of what you did. Understand what you did is nothing serious. But it worries me that you have this notion that you are evil. That you are someone who is almost incapable of being forgiven. There is a monster in you. This is the root of this post. You are dealing with a very apparent insecurity. It is manifesting itself in guilt.

>I don't want to sound gay
Felling you have to prefix your statement with this is a damn shame.

That's okay, user. You are still innocent, and you can spend the rest of your life being innocent, and being kinder to others :) don't beat yourself over this so much. You've shown yourself guilty enough, and from here on should just help prevent it from happening again.

You mean what if they are right in judging what is a sin and how severe each sin is? It wouldn't matter because they would still have commited it, but it would help them internalize it for repentance. Christians view salvation as a gift they are undeserving of. if you could choose to abolish heaven or hell, you would abolish heaven.

on reflection 'sins that in your perception' is a sub set of 'any mortal sins' and by this logic one could not sin, to say one is born with sin before any action has occurred is also of note

Thanks for the post, and I get where you're coming from and don't disagree. That I am perhaps placing so much emphasis on what is apparently a minor ethical mistake, is evidence of a vastly greater potential for evil, unethical behaviour etc lurking below the surface. That may be true, although my intention for this thread is more to do with more general notions of personal guilt, moral failing and how to continue living (if it's permissible to do so) with a guilty conscience.

Brace yourself; I would abolish religion.

Does anybody recommend reading the Bible to understand the Christian concept of Sin? Does Nietzsche write about it anywhere?

maybe the stranger? its not about living with the guilt or accepting it, but you might like the message.

your option 1. is just martyrdom and its going to end up making you miserable and the people you help miserable. just like mother theresa. your best bet is living normally and not repeating your mistakes as a start,

> to say one is born with sin before any action has occurred is also of note
yes it's called original sin, where the apple of the knowledge of good and evil was eaten. You can also inherit sin from your forbearers, which is a particularly big faux pas to modern sensibilities.

Low IQ atheist thinks he's trolling me. I haven't even claimed to be christian or "religious" I'm just explaining some of the dogma of the religion.

People really belive in God? Like foreal?

Like sin and Jesus and all that gay shit?

Like you are smart enough to understand that life is all meaningless, smart enough to understand all these ideas that require a belief in no God yet, there is so much disgusting christianity in here. I am triggered. People here are either fucking dumb or have way too much time on their hands. It is in this moment I actually wish to be the fool for being right makes the world wrong.

Are you just some guy chiming in? You're right I guess, but why care?

>In one instance I wrote hurtful things about a young author on Yea Forums a few years ago, and can't have these comments deleted from the archive.
holy shit it's you again

You need to see a therapist m8

OP, there's one person in this thread giving you actual advice and it's the poster of the following three posts:
Their criticisms are meaningful. If you figure out what it is about you that would prompt these crits, you would be a better person.
Try describing yourself, your qualities, your situation, without using the word "am." Practice the skill of noticing how you affect people. Stop being such a bitch.

No joke, not being mean, but do you have autism?

How aware are you of life? Do you have ambitions of being a writer? From what I read, there seems to have been someone in your life who achieved this dream. Hence the posts. And, that this post, its inherent guilt, its feelings of hopelessness of being an evil unforgivable creature are evident that there may have been more to those posts then just hurtful words. No, if you knew that person I think I understand your guilt. You probably wanted to murder this person. Like full on retard strangle, stab, and cry on their corpse kind of murder. The pathetic and repulsive murder that brings nothing to the world but vomit and tears. This is why you feel so guilty. It is these monstrous feeling you had about the person. That is why the link feels so absurd. You missed these parts. Correct?

I care, because it highlights the childish demographic that has influenced your feeling that you can't express something without being perceived as 'gay' and that this is synonymous with being emotional, over emotional and highly descriptive.

You seem very kind, dude. Don't worry so much :) stay off this site if anything, you seem too good for a place like this

you are so mean

That 'Low IQ atheist' is also me Yes I did think you may be christian, but I don't over value it in context of our discussion.

My atheistic quib is more to do with not needing religion in order for humans to treat each other well. Now, spiritually, concerning the fear of death is another matter.

hate to quote JK rowling on ya, but being "Nice" is not the same as being "Good" in many cases.

This is a prime example of people trying to help but making things even worse? Where is the fucking accountability? Where is the facing of your actions? The process of understanding ethics? To simple say he shouldn't do anything, that he is a good person just because he is guilt? Fuck no, you are hereby banned from posting in this thread. Begone.

why are semicolons so beautiful, bros?

Gnarly huh?

stop larping

I'm not allowed to take an interest in the logic of original sin because I don't fall into a specific group?

Being able to articulate someone else's point of view, logic is valuable life skill and in discourse.

Nonsense, do you think the kids came up with that all by their own? Or could it be that homophobia has flourished for hundreds of years in the Western cultural sphere, for centuries at least. I don't want to defend homophobia, if that's not clear by now.
You didn't answer my question. Are you even the guy whose comment I've replied to in the first place? Nothing against you bud, I don't want to spend the next hour arguing about the intricacies of homophobia with you.

Well sir, you are the prize of Russia's pride. What are we even fucking talking about anymore? Wasn't this thread supposed to be a pity party for OP? So we could all hold his hand and tell him its okay? This thread became derailed with this topic. Not saying you can't discuss it, just seems inappropriate from the thread's purpose.

Most religions. I suggest the New Testament desu

I'm not homophobic. Either you've misinterpreted what I've written, or what I have written didn't express what I was trying to express.

>Are you even the guy whose comment I've replied to in the first place?
no

His actions are long-done, and he's already made concrete steps to remedy them by purchasing the guy's books twice and leaving positive remarks on them. He's speaking of something that happened literally years ago. He's clearly sorry, and has already taken actions to directly help the person he hurt. There's nothing else he should do besides remember this and ensure it doesn't happen again. What else do you want from him? To convert to Christianity like the other proselytizers in this thread have swooped in to do? He's clearly a moral person, has a strong guilt function, his sin is not nearly as bad as what one expected him to reveal, it happened years ago, and he has already performed actions to cancel it. He needs to move on and stop letting his guilt hold him back from being an even better person in the future.

unironically tips fedora

Please elaborate your position? Or are you just out for attention?

>I'm not homophobic
I wasn't insinuating that. Seems I haven't succeeded in expressing myself.
>no
k

gosh dangit, you are such a good writer user. i can tell you have natural talent

believe it or not fellas, I copy pasted from a blog

then that blogwriter is super talented then

Perfect. This post is great your reasoning is sound.

:D
Post link

called "hotel concierge" I think it's on tumblr these days

:) thanks user

props to him :)

Why not just post the link, of the thing you originally posted merely an hour ago? Surely you must still know it.

reddit sissies

Just finished East of Eden today, and it is exactly what you need, desu. Just stick with it past the description of the Salinas valley and you are golden.

didn't feel like looking it up again
you have google

I've hurt a lot of people and I don't feel any sympathy or guilt. Me and a buddy used to drive around the neighborhood and I would hang out the door with a bat and randomly tag people with it. I fucked a few friends girlfriends and even told them about it in fucked up ways, like telling them they should be thanking me since I exposed their girl before it got serious between them.

I robbed and stole from a few friends and sometimes in the most ridiculous ways. Like one time I knew a guy that needed a bumper for a particular year Monte Carlo and I had a friend that had one of those cars, so I went in the middle of the night and unbolted the damn thing and carried it for about a mile down the railroad tracks. I'm just reminiscing now.

ocdbaltimore.com/moral-scrupulosity-ocd/

Crime and Punishment, it's literally almost completely about that.

Augustine's Confessions

Why, if it happened years ago, are you just now writing of it, and why are you still worrying over it? Also ignore the ones here being mean to you.

Goonan will get over it, sweatie.

Rediscover the feeling of shame

t. the fat kid with flames fashioning his cheeto stained garments.

(He hands it to soldier, who is about to drink when another wounded soldier rises up and takes it from him.)
First Soldier. One drop! One drop! Oh, give it
me, I die!
Second Soldier. Nay, if you die, you die: -‘twill
save my life.
As well might I pour it upon the sand
As into thee, ‘twould be as fruitful quite.
First Soldier. Canst thou not see a drop will save
my life?
Second Soldier. But for a moment, should I give it
Thee,
Why I should die as soon as thou, poor fool.
First Soldier. For mercy’s sake, one little drop,
one drop!
Oh, for one second give my parched throat
Relief, and heaven will bless thee.
Second Soldier. ‘Tis all gone.
First Soldier. Then may the curses of humanity
All fall upon thy head, may thy black heart
Swell, swell with grief until it bursts, and then
May’t swell and burst again! God’s curses on thee!
May thou no more feel one small sigh of hope--
May hell refuse thee shelter at the last!
(He falls back dead.)
Second Soldier. And curses on thy soul, where’er
it be!
God’s curses on thee, madman, dost thou hear?
May all the foulest spirits in deep hell
Torture thy cursed soul! I see thee now
Toss’d in a blazing whirlpool—ha, ha, ha!
(He falls back dead.)

Let not depression flood the whole
Of thy exalted spirit’s might:
Nor rob it of its glory bright,
Nor dim the lustre of that soul.
Yon sun that rose
A blush of love:
Did beams disclose
Of heaven above:
But darkness came,
And bitter night
Shrouded its flame
Subdued its light!
Yet still with majesty it gleams,
And the whole universe doth revel in its beams.
Mortal, upon this earth some form
To still that soul will surely rise:
Created as ye are ‘midst storm,
Ye must have glimpses of the skies.
Banish then, oh mortal one,
Sighs and achings of the breast:
Thou shalt find a glorious rest
In the kingdoms of the sun.

fuckin yikes lololol who hurt u lil buddy

Attached: 9C72752F-FBD5-44F3-84FE-F58230503D55.jpg (306x475, 19K)

umm yeah its called THE BIBLE

the fact that you feel guilty and wouldn't do it again means that you are not that person anymore.
if you ever get the chance to apologize definitely do that though, it helps the people who have been hurt.

Pray to God for forgiveness. Pray to know the depth of the evil, to have a better sense of the true meaning of what you did, whether greater or lesser than what you imagine. Ask for help in figuring out what efforts you may undertake to repent (you cannot undo it, but you can do things which are a sincere response to the desire to undo).