Is intelligence an emergent property or a transcendental principle?

just noticed the image, haha. cheeky OP

when you describe nature as necessitating "efficiency", are you not still applying intelligence to it? how does nature "know" anything at all, such as the conceptual reality called "efficiency"? it seems, to me, that you're giving mental properties to something you claim absent of mind.

oh and i hope that doesn't sound rude or anything. in tone. i don't claim to know anything. i'm just casually asking you a question

>ped rog peag gabidull
>ped rog frum fuchuh
>ped rog neogawd
>gabidull zendiend

Attached: Ped Rog Zendiend.jpg (170x217, 16K)

What is it, a play on reddit?

nick land, the philosopher guy (i've never read him)

but it's a Nickelodeon sign, presumably for a theme park of theirs

bumping for thread that shows potential

well, clearly the system itself as a whole exhibits properties. stone formation as willed by an eldrich horror Spinozist God, demanding a shrine to itself through , loathsome of waste. maybe you're right that I'm describing something that can't be just emergent, what Land is saying. I'm a panpsychisist in the sense that I believe rocks have a "sense" in of themselves. you could write a "what it is to be a geological formation" in the same style as Nagel's "what its like to be a bat", except more alien,but I hesitate to call the rock intelligent

Frankly it's too late here and I'm not making coherent sense or refuting your arguments well. I am aware of it and apologize

based post

dude don't worry, i wouldn't even claim to have "arguments" here, we're just discussing possibilities. i don't have any hard positions on the nature of this subject. and i like hearing your responses :) i haven't read Spinoza or Land so you have more background than me, my personal position would be closer to Advaita maybe, so definitely panpsychist

The ability to think about abstract concepts and represent them with symbols is an emergent property. We can see less developed forms of it in animals like chimps. It enabled us to live in large and coordinated groups and became increasingly selected for, reinforcing our ability.

That's because reality is pantheistic and animistic.

This man gets it:

Proof:

fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00792R000300330001-8.pdf
cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/psychic
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200070001-9.pdf
cia.gov/library/readingroom/collection/stargate
cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/qi
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00792R000300380001-3.pdf

Plus many more if you just take the time to look.

youtube.com/watch?v=76FksKjCy58
youtube.com/watch?v=wYVdhKVb9WE
youtube.com/watch?v=03K8fYFUUhs
youtube.com/watch?v=iiQTCMolLqI
youtube.com/watch?v=pmo2Bye42go
youtube.com/watch?v=mVr1p-FlLtk
youtube.com/watch?v=UB5MdV90v-g
youtube.com/watch?v=ad7I7e3CYiw
youtube.com/watch?v=itmn_1AsG10
the last one could be tech and not a psychic technique

psychicscience.org/pk2a.aspx
imgur.com/a/oLDaSsr

For the more curious:

the-eye.eu/public/Books/Temple_Of_Solomon_The_King/

Bent spoon arrive from Sinocapital.

Attached: intel.png (601x496, 78K)

Both, it is an emergent manifestation of Godly intellect on the world

really based, thank you. believe it or not i have some ability to see auras, and once i gained them was when i started looking into all that psychic stuff like stargate program and the like. i haven't perused it properly yet but yeah, anyone who thinks we're just schizophrenics are ignorant to the whole realm of released documents in front of them on these realities; not all it may be true, but some of it certainly is, and that alone should bring oneself to already be pondering the possibilities

really based, user

Can you summarize what spiritual realities you believe in?

I'm a *whaaaat*?

Truth brudda, Everyone can can evolve their spirit and subtle bodies, it's like any muscle or your brain.

See for an incomplete summary, to be more specific and add a few, I work with Qi, Chakras, Kundalini, Kabbalah, Auras, Psi, Entheogens and Shamanism. If you want my super specific fan theories on the metaphysics of The All, something along the lines of The Godhead manifesting us all so He could explore infinity, pretty standard Vedic teachings, but in that I add there's possibly infinite dimensions, all nested within higher dimensions, that themselves nest lower dimensions. The beings and entities that live in these higher realms, closer to God and Heaven (in fact these higher dimensions may be heavens of sorts, or hells mind you) would be like gods to us, angels and demons, truly alien aliens. These entities are [some of] the gods of yore, and you can contect them easily with entheogenic usage. That kinda sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Love is the key.

I don't suppose I need to tell you how easily every single one of those videos could be faked

How would you fake the two where he digs a knife into his hand, then channels chi into the area, and immediately wipes the blood away to reveal no wound? I don't think you watched any of those videos desu. Why don't you take the time to type out how every one of those videos can be faked then?

That doesn't mean anything, there are [linked] papers proving chi is real, there's evenpapers from ncbi and other places

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20594090
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1697751/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1978229/

>How would you fake the two where he digs a knife into his hand, then channels chi into the area, and immediately wipes the blood away to reveal no wound?
Okay, first and foremost, people get stabbed in movies all the time, so you should be very well aware that there are a near limitless number of ways to fake something like. That said, in both of those videos you do not get a shot of his open right hand or a good look at that band around his right wrist. It's entirely possible he was holding a small fake blood pack in his right hand and let it run down the hidden side of the blade, into his palm. In the first video, you can even see the blood begin to pool in an area around the blade on the outer cushion of his palm, away from the point, despite there being no wound there, which is what it would look like if the blood was coming from the blade and not the palm. In neither video, including the one labeled "a much closer look", do you get a good clear shot of the open wound because there wasn't one. Not to mention he stabbed himself twice in the exact same spot and didn't develop any scar tissue whatsoever. In fact, all you can see is a small divet in his palm in the end of the second video where he pushed the blade in, which wouldn't be there if he just healed a stab wound there, but would be there if all he did was shove a dull point of metal into it. I don't know if you noticed, but he didn't actually do ANYTHING to demonstrate the blade was even slightly sharp before using it on himself.

>Why don't you take the time to type out how every one of those videos can be faked then?
Because it takes an order of magnitude greater to dismantle bullshit than to create it in the first place, and I value my time too highly to do all of your thinking for you.

There are papers that "prove" a lot of things, and an overwhelming majority of them break down under even slight scrutiny. That first link literally says that they googled the keywords "Tai Chi, Taiji, Tai Chi Chuan, and Qigong" and found 77 examples of these things relating to undefined terms such as "quality of life" and "self-efficacy". The second link, in the very first paragraph, says "The quest to define Qi continues, with there being no breakthroughs that we know of." The third link is a response to what was written in the second link, and the very second sentence is "I will explain my OPINIONS regarding the importance of Ki research, philosophical aspects of Ki and a possible role of Ki now and in the future."

>the stabbing deconstruction

You either didn't watch the video close enough or don't know what you're talking about. You literally see the tips of the knives go in if you can decipher depth at all. There is nothing weird about the blood pooling, and how would he have triggered a "blood sac" in his bracelets? Bending his thumb backwards 180 degrees to press a release on the bracelet? And the lack of scar: that's the chi working. The blade was clearly sharp, it was stabbed handle up into a block of wood at the beginning of vid 2.

Look at the cia papers on chi then. The evidence is there. I know an anecdote will do you no good but I use it in my everyday life to effect. If I have sore muscles or joints I just basically perform reiki and the pain goes away.

Do you seriously think the world is as mundane as they teach you in public school textbooks?

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1978229/

Ki Effects Can be Reproduced by the Students of Mr Nishino
Flowers questioned whether the observed Ki phenomena are limited to Mr Nishino alone. This is a good point. If only one person is effective, but nobody else, then this is a paranormal phenomenon and not a fitting object of science. Yes, other people can reproduce Ki phenomena, too. Dozens of instructors in two schools (Tokyo and Osaka) of NBM and some students can emit Ki. We reported that S.T. Ohnishi and T. Ohnishi could reduce the growth of cultured cancer cells, although their effects were not as strong as that of Mr Nishino (7). In that report, we also described that S.T. Ohnishi could move other students with his Ki, but his effect was weak and worked on a small number of students who are very sensitive to Ki.

>You either didn't watch the video close enough or don't know what you're talking about.
The burden of proof lies upon whomever is making the extraordinary claim, and in this case, that's you. Just because you do not accept my explanation for one of the ways that man could have faked that youtube video does not mean that youtube video was not faked. That's what magic tricks are, people creating illusions in such a way that you can not explain how they were done. There are a myriad of ways that man could have faked what he did, and the only way he could have done it for real would require belief in a nebulous, vague, largely undefined force known as "Chi". It is an illusion until proven otherwise.

>I know an anecdote will do you no good but I use it in my everyday life to effect.
I believe you. I've studied occultism enough to know that plenty of people can do things that defy normal explanation. That doesn't mean you aren't being taken for a ride, though. I'm not saying it's completely impossible to do what that man claims to have done, but I am saying (and you can not deny this) that it is extremely improbable and there is not sufficient evidence that he did not fake it.

>Do you seriously think the world is as mundane as they teach you in public school textbooks?
To me, you look like someone that wants the world to be more magical than it seems to be, and as such you want certain things to be true. I don't know if you realize how much wanting something to be true can distort your mental state. I think you are, subconsciously or not, ignoring certain holes in your own logic because you're afraid to accidentally pop your bubble of comfortable belief. I don't hold it against you, all people including myself avoid forming trains of thought that could shatter an idea that gives us comfort. When someone like yourself who wants Chi to exist watches that video, they see conclusive proof of its existence. When someone indifferent and skeptical to the idea sees it, they see a half baked magic trick.

If you can give me a strict and precise definition of "Chi" as well as a video from an unbiased source that shows the hand stabbing trick from multiple angles as well as a much closer examination of the wound, we'll have something to talk about. Until then, this is like me trying to argue that the magician didn't actually use a hand saw to cut his attractive assistant in half.

Alright, follow my logic here. If we know what something is, we can test it. We need to know what it is, what it's made of, how it works, everything we can possible know about it. Why? Because we need to know exactly what the differences are between the test group, and control group. Any difference unaccounted for skews the results. If you want to test how light affects something, you need to be absolutely god damn sure that the only difference between test and control groups is the light.

Now, what the fuck is Ki? What is it made of? Where does it come from? See, the problem with this study, just like many others, is that they're trying to prove it cures cancer before they bother to prove it exists in the first place.

In this study, Ki is vaguely defined as "energy". The problem here is that we know what energy is and we know what forms in can take. There is no 100% perfect method of energy conversion, which means any form of energy 'generation' converts a small amount of the energy used as a resource into unintended byproducts. Light bulbs produce heat, a gunshot makes a noise, etc. So, why is it that they didn't even bother to detect the generation of any other kind of energy during this test? Is the human body, during the process of Ki production, literally the only thing in the entire universe capable of 100% perfect energy conversion? If not, what other energies were generated? What if one of those energies was responsible for the test results instead of Ki? Or what if it's one of an incalculable number of other variables they didn't account for because they couldn't, since Ki hasn't actually been discovered nor rigidly defined yet?

Are you picking up what I'm putting down? This is why these studies, like millions of others, are trash masquerading as science.

Attached: 1544636091251.jpg (1000x1200, 166K)

The problem is you are being stubbornly skeptic here, he literally pulls the wound open in video 1.

Subtle energies/bodies, if you've studied occultism, are probably vibrating at frequencies so high they aren't perceivable with normal instruments, or are some kind of higher dimensional energy (if you've studied breakthrough DMT trips, this may be a familiar concept), or just straight up Godstuff. When I've asked relatively high level occultists what prana/chi is the answer they give basically comes down to "The Unknowable. THE Paradox. God." It is our own Will, our own Holy Spirit, Christ Consciousness, Mana, Prana, Chi, you name it. If you are looking for it's constituents like physics has been doing for 400 years, you'll just find more illusions.

it's probably a combination of bloodpack and clay or putty over the palm which is wiped away when they wipe away the blood revealing the normal palm underneath. it's funny all of these stunts are coincidentally the same legerdemain that magicians have been using for centuries

>Show unimpressive magic trick
>Claim it's real
>Someone asks you to prove it's real
>"The problem is you are being stubbornly skeptic here"
No, sir, the problem is that you are gullible. You're willfully abandoning logic because you're too comfortable in your faith. Anything that isn't conclusive isn't proof, and reasonable people do not believe the extraordinary without proof. You have provided nothing conclusive.

>When I've asked relatively high level occultists what prana/chi is the answer they give basically comes down to...
What the fuck is a high level occultist? You know occultism isn't just ONE thing right? A rank held by a Christian religious leader would not be recognized in the world of Islam, and in the same way there is no "high level occultist". Occultic knowledge and understanding is not a universally recognized linear progression.

There's a reason people say "enlightenment is that which can be learned, but never taught" and this is it. You're not supposed to take explanations at face value, you're supposed to dissect them yourself and learn. When you're being 'dude it's a paradox' you're not supposed to go "oh, okay then" and adopt the idea on faith, you're supposed to figure out what the fuck that means. THINK. Fuck.

You should probably actually watch the videos

I have enough conclusive proof in my own life that chi works. If you want your own proof after what I've shown you isn't enough, then you should probably try mastering your spirit, because that seems to be the only thing that would sway you. I used to be atheist for many years, and a skeptic too, but all that fell away because it was unneccesary and detrimental to my own progress towards my goals. Maybe you have different goals, agree to disagree then. I use reason in my life, but my reason and experiences have shown me things outside the realms of "accepted pop science". I really have no need to continue here, so have a good one.

>try mastering your spirit, because that seems to be the only thing that would sway you
Nigga you've given me youtube videos, I just want one that can't be explained away as easily as what you've posted. Why is that too much to ask for? Whatever, I don't know why I'm bothering with you, you who has spent the whole thread literally advocating for ignorance. "Occult" means hidden knowledge, and you don't care about knowledge nor understanding.

you should probably spend a year or two learning magic, not the larp kind, the kind they do on stage in Las Vegas. might open your eyes a bit

stop being hostile please, his videos may or not have been legitimate but many spiritual realities still are, and we can discuss of them here

chaos magic 4 lyfe babyyy

i dont know what that is

youre missing out

All magical and mystical systems were originally chaos magic, they've just been "rooted" over the millenia, and most magicians eventually end up doing the same once they reach acertain proficiency level. The known systems are too generalized for the population to do really specific workings , so most people just end up making their own correspondences and systems to do their work.

before i google it, can u pls summarize for me? it sounds evil, based on the name. i'm a good person and don't want to harm anyone. also if u guys are magicians, can u pls tell me if being a pure soul helps you with casting magic?

chaos magic is just self aware larping. pure souls stick to philosophy

desu, magic has always been about developing your spirit, so if you go into it with that philosophy, you'll be fine. Some slip up and try to gain power, or at least get greedy for it, and suffer the consequences.

is chaos magic bad? it sounds like it'll hurt people. can i use it to help people?

No, chaos magic basically means you make up your own system, chaos magic is "whatever works, works", You can pray to God, to the Devil, use sticks to write runes in the dirt, divinate with soap bubbles, whatever, the sky's the limit. Chaos Magic is neutral, it's how you use it.