How the FUCK do i come up with a plot like nigga i just want to write pretty sentences but i have no story to link them...

Do you even have a central idea you're trying to explore

yeah i have a few reoccurent themes that play on my mind:
>the industrial revolution was the worst thing to happen to mankind
>there's no way to undo it, and since the industrial revolution took away all of our past truths, we can only live in a world of fiction now, living life as if it were art
>this is not as cool as past thinkers thought, and even the greeks, who already had a concept of life as a drama played to amuse the gods, would be in shock as how fake and phony modern life is
>i'm a 25 years old virgin, and while a lot of it is due to genetics, since my ugliness and behaviors came from my genetics, i have only myself to blame for such a failure of life
>unironical nostalgia for non being

getting the sense there isn't a counterargument and people just don't like thinking about this subject

Being an incel isn't an argument anyone needs to counter. They're just sad ridiculous people.

do you want me to just green text that 30 minute video for you? is that the only way you are capable of processing information?

Im well aware that they're sad and ridiculous, i was talking about their point on the sexual dynamics in society
eg. this kind of thing
girlsaskguys.com/sexual-behavior/a22977-girls-on-tinder-do-smash-a-lot

I know that's just a meme article about tinder, but that dynamic in general is prevalent in society and people pretend that it isn't

Create a narrative that pushes your central ideas to their archetypal limits. What are the logical conclusions of the concepts you've outlined?

Creative writing classes are complete waste of time and money.

You can pick up a few books on structure, especially those aimed at screenwriters, to pick up the basics of plot. They're all based on stuff Aristotle wrote several thousand years ago but are written in a more accessible way. After that you should read a few books in the genre you're writing and analyze how those books are structured at each level, from the entire novel as a whole, to each individual chapter and scene. Go for a balance of classics and recently published work if you actually want to sell.

While you are doing this, not before nor after, but during, write sketches of as many plots as you can. At least one a day. Summaries and outlines are fine but focus on concrete details and scenes. Trying to "predict" the plot of the things you're reading and seeing how the author differs from what you thought can be illuminating as well. What you are trying to do is make plotting unconscious through repetition and imitation. You'll know you've succeeded when your plots seem to "write themselves", when you can write them purely by feeling.

Well, we're back at the OP. Following the logic from these half assed thoughts into a fully expressed plot and character development is the thing that i fail.

you sound dumb and i'm not even smart

This article is suicide material

w-we can be brainlet friends together, can't we?!

Sounds like Gravity's Rainbow

More or less. Do you really want to have any kind of relationship with a the type of girl that lets males run a train on her? A basic standard for me is that the girl shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 bfs in a "long relationship" before me. I'm not delusional about virginity and i think this is stupid but i wouldn't ever touch a whore who has fucked more guys than you can count on one hand.

It is, but the guy doesn't even link or show the results of the student survey he took. Where in this survey did they manage to accurately profile all the men these women slept with as "muscular, relaxed, confident"? I wouldn't be surprised if an incel wrote this.

Hey man as long as she's clean and knows what she's doing

>suicide material
Is this genuinely news to you guys? What do you think women are talking about when they complain about players, fuckboys, etc.

It's not news. I just try to forget about it, then I want to kill myself all over again when I'm reminded.

Its not news because that's a fake article

If i'm not mistaken that is just a copy of a 2015 okcupid article which was definitely real (and was deleted after the whole incel controversy).

Regardless of if it's a real article, it's a real phenomenon

There are already more men than women on OKCupid so those numbers would make more sense for that.

Then why couldn't someone post a more legitimate source? It's a legitimate phenomenon that women receive messages and men send them. It's a legitimate phenomenon that women on dating sites have the luxury of choice, but I don't buy that ratio and I don't even buy that sample size for a survey conducted by a student for a class.

This is probably true given that there are a lot of bot and fake female profiles, but i doubt you have any data on this. They haven't shown what the percentages actually are, if i'm not mistaken. Anyway, i don't see how incels get so angry and females so defensive about this. This is just biology. Females hold the power on dating and it's obvious.

>trannyposting
this better be a joke

>It's just biology that females hold the power
Not really. Women only gained the supposedly immutable power to say no to masculine sexual/romantic advances a few hundred years ago. This is entirely socially contingent on the phenomenon of online dating.

>biology started a couple hundred years ago
imagine believing this

Now i've actually read that article and yeah, it seems like bullshit. I doubt that's an actual researcher there. However, he is pulling from the okcupid sources, even if indirectly. Here are some articles that are basically saying the same:
archive.is/489UV (80/20)
harchive.is/kMP32 (blacks btfo, least preferred race and race mixing isn't actually common as poltards want you to believe)
archive.is/9fJQh (another one on looks)
You can find way more on the gwern subreddit. Other similar articles also got deleted after the whole incel retardation.

Do you think that in the ancient world women got to choose their husbands?

Couldn't find much legit, but here's a source on OKCupid's m/f ratio stating that men make up the majority of the site, no matter where you are geographically, in which case it would have to be true that a small portion of men attract all the women.
rooshvforum.com/thread-20387.html

No, but before civilization they definely did. It has been shown that a lot of traits like blue eyes were actually sexually selected. Height is another factor, muscular jaw and a well built natural body as well. This is basically why Europeans are so tall, manlets thousands of years ago got BTFO by tall chads.

So you're saying we live like that now?

Of course not, i'm just highlighting the biology side of why women, once sexually free, go on to have sex with as many men as possible. They simply have the power of selection. They don't need to do anything other than not being a landwhale. Everyday a different kind of man hits on them and all they need to do is to select which one of them they want. Men are simply disposable, they have always been.

I still kinda think that's bullshit. You said "it has been shown." Where did you get those speculations from? How do we know that blue eyes were sexually selected? Also, is all sexual selection BY women? How many of those traits, especially "well built natural body" are just indicators for who makes a more effective rapist.

t.stem cuck
and or
t.drop out neet

its literal bullshit when people say creative writing classes dont help ofcourse they do, writing on your free time to post here and rip upand writing for your class for them to rip up is the ultimate postive and negative feedback system. Sure you can do it on your own but you can improve far faster and way better in the class. If you take the class out of Highschool you would be in your peak years all the way to graduation and professors can help you if you plan to write a book in Uni. Studying on your own takes way longer and you get shittier feed back

write about some sort of literary community like a university or artists's colony and pit the people against each other. Have two poets living in NYC in the 90s who hate each other but are both amazing writers, one is from a wealthy family and the other is poor.

>still kinda think that's bullshit
damn guess biology is btfo then

No offense, but this sounds boring and cliche af.

You'd have to be extremely creative to make such tired themes engaging. You need to learn about writing fun plots before you tackle heavier themes, user. The greatest works of fiction are those that can be enjoyed at a surface level as well as at a deeper level.

Not this necessarily, but this is a pretty good outline for what an effective plot looks like. Just pick a scenario where conflict is inevitable and escalate it, or just do a three-act structure where tension builds to a climax.

You responded to the first five words. Guess that means you won the argument. I didn't change any of your terms I only asked how they might apply. I could take the same information and suggest that blue eyes were sexually selected because men wanted to sleep with blue-eyed women and not the other way around.

>I still kinda think that's bullshit.
Biology doesn't care about what you think.
>How do we know that blue eyes were sexually selected?
10k years ago, no one had blue eyes. If you knew even anything about biology you'd know that traits like that, especially such recessive traits like blue eye, don't really just appear out of the sudden and survive for much. Rather, what happened was that a mutation occured in a small group, and this group went on to have more children than the groups with other eye colors, despite sharing the same enviroment and having no real advantage to other groups. You can see this in the fact that most of blue eyed people are related. I suggest you read more on sexual selection.
As to the rapist thing, that's simply laughable and i suggest you rethink it and see how stupid it is for yourself.

You misquoted me. I said how do you know blue eyes were selected BY women? Men could've done the selecting.
Also
>Prehistoric rape isn't a thing, and has no bearing on evolution
it's hilarious that you think this

idk i watch nature documentaries and there is a lot of rape going on

you could but you’d be an idiot

How so? The data you've shown (that certain traits were "selected") doesn't prove that women had more power to choose mates than men among prehistoric humans.

>No offense, but this sounds boring and cliche af.
I agree, though if you're going with that, i doubt you can come with any theme at all that isn't overdone. Everything has been not only done but done better. I'm still open to plot suggestions or some any kind of advice on how to deal with this. I just need to find a decent plot and start writing. Unfortunately, the thread has degenerated to incels and cucks only because i joked about CHADs on the OP.
>You'd have to be extremely creative to make such tired themes engaging.
That's exactly the task of the writer. Or do you think that Ulysses has any innovation if we simply look at its plot? It's literally a copy of the Odyssey. The same can be said about pretty much any other works. Novels are just an "evolution" of oral traditions. The things we tell ourselves are the same things told thousands of years ago.
The greatest works of fiction are those that can be enjoyed at a surface level as well as at a deeper level.
This is kinda retarded and probably the reason why there's such an anti plot sentiment on Yea Forums.

Sincerely, I'm always down to read good fiction about what it's like to work in the service industry and not many people write it. Any story about people who have to pretend to be happy at work, and encounters with the uncanny people for whom this comes naturally, are underrated and not enough people are writing them. Also that being verbally abused by random customers is a built-in part of most jobs now.
Not sure if this is useful, but if you're into the phoniness of post-industrialism.

Get Plot Perfect. Best plot book I've read, goes through 3 Acts and Hero's Journey, explains how authors use or diverge from 3 act structure, tells you how to do it yourself in very simple terms with minimal fluff and no woo-woo inspirational dig-up-your-story like it's a fossil BS that fills so many crap "how to write" books.

no, the proof of that is a second grade level understanding evolutionary biology

It might help if we knew more about what kinds of scenes you write. If I knew what kinds of characters you were comfortable working with, then plots might be easier to suggest.

Then you should be able to explain how the idea of natural selection implies female choosing power and no rapes among prehistoric humans.

>Also that being verbally abused by random customers is a built-in part of most jobs now.
Don't know why but i keked at this. It's actually absurd how this is basically a fact.
>Not sure if this is useful
The post was actually pretty useful, i'll note that and it'll maybe help me. Thank you, user.

No, unfortunately, I speak from experience. Unless you're enrolled in one of the very expensive and/or elite programs (which I was not), creative writing classes are a waste of time and money. By this I merely mean that the alternative is cheaper and faster--that is, if you're actually willing to do the work. And if not, then no program will help you.

Rather than try to justify your own sunk cost, you should take a look at things objectively. Most feedback is useless. Feedback from other young writers can even be dangerous. The best way to get feedback is by actually trying to push your work into publication, seeing what gets rejected and what doesn't and trying improve by it. There is absolutely nothing that a student (or instructor for that matter) in a writing course could tell you that you couldn't pick up more efficiently from trial and error through publishing and rejection, reading and writing. Christ, you could probably do better by just starting a blog and checking viewer counts as a metric of feedback.

Of course this assumes you actually want to write for a living and not as a hobby. If the latter, then sure, you can do whatever you like. The other exception is actually getting into one of those elite programs, in which case, you're probably a good writer already, have a manuscript ready and are just polishing it and networking for publishers.

Check out a book by Arlie Hoschchild called "The Managed Heart." It's a sociological study from the 80s about flight attendants, and covers these concepts more in depth.

Steal one, retard
Plot is the least important aspect, just take a rough framework from the classics or history