Whilst reading some Yea Forums shit, I think that I've spotted the problem in a lot of literature that's written by the young adults of today. I could make a rant that uses the word SJW 20 times and sounds like it was copy and pasted from /pol/, but when hasn't writing containing propaganda? Hear me out, I think that the core problems with the modern brand of such writing is as follows: >1) If you're remotely clued up on politics, you notice the propaganda and it destroys your immersion immediately. >2) Good writing is concise, but by necessity, including propaganda makes your writing non-concise. Why is this more a problem now than it was in older writing? For problem 1 that's easy, it's not a problem now because few people know their history well enough to notice that their favourite 19th century author was taking a stab at a political group that no longer exists. As for problem 2, that's a lot more clear. If you're a writer of modern propaganda, then you're forced to describe the gender distribution of every group that you introduce, over-describe your new characters so that you can subtlety hint at their sexualities (pic related, it's a lot more noticeable in a comic), and include comments about your characters that do nothing other than make the author score good boy points (e.g. throw in a comment about menstruation or someone's trans sister). When you attempt to fulfil these goals, it becomes absolutely impossible to make your writing concise, which does great damage to your work. This is unlike in the olden days, where you could throw in your propaganda with just one sentence of dialogue (e.g. read any random page of Steinbeck).
I don't know guys, am I on to something? I don't want to go full /pol/, but I'd challenge you to find some modern writing that tries to slip the author's ideology in and manages to be concise about it. Bonus points if its far left, I suspect that the far right has an easier time (e.g. just include a happily married Christian).
I don't know why I have to keep posting this, but SJW shit is getting the majority of mainstream acclaim and bandwidth, that does not mean it's the only literature produced right now. Yes, the publishing companies are aware that progressive politics sells in the year 2019 and are leveraging that fact to move as many books as possible. Dig harder, find stuff you like.
Jason Garcia
Yes, O Lord Satan.
Noah Evans
>progressive politics sells in the year 2019 Does it really sell? Other than the Nike ad, most progressive attempts seem to have failed. I frankly think executives are actually true believers in the progressive thing.
Christian Sanchez
If they were true believers, they'd actually have 50/50 gender splits in their executive boards. It's possible that they believe in some of it (for an example of such partial belief, look up the Atena Swan applications from university STEM departments), but they certainly don't buy in to all of it. Most likely, unless they're in California, they just think that it sells.
Parker Howard
always be scanning for the fnords, man
Wyatt Howard
I'm sitting on a quasi-napoleonic/steampunk novel manuscript. I'm concerned about sending it because although the main character is interested in liberalising his nation it still reads like "reactionary," propaganda. Say what you will but i'm mad about writing a good book for this genre however the Victorian era is chock full of stuff that no publisher would touch with a mile long pole. I think it's more that they know it doesn't attract a larger audience, but if they don't include it they'll have activists crawling down their throats.
Jaxon Perez
Perhaps you could share a short excerpt?
William Anderson
>I frankly think executives are actually true believers in the progressive thing.
How high are you?
If capitalists as a class actually believed in the "progressive thing", the world wouldn't look like what it does: A hypercapitalist neo-lib hell desert.
Ayden Hill
>Why is this more a problem now than it was in older writing? That's where you're wrong bucko. All creations are ideological in a way. Bad writing has always existed. You just need to stop being a faggot that gets triggered when people write bad stuff and just wait for History to sort the good stuff. You just have no perspective.
James White
Yes, it's very popular among the upper middle class, who also spend a shit ton of money on entertainment and "culture"
only high people are the weed smoking chapocels. look at any elite fundraisers or any of the topics of the roundtable committees. it's all the same shit: women, gays, funding vr headsets for african children through the blockchain, etc.
this whole idea that the elites aren't socially left wing is just absolute insanity, and you really have to do some mental gymnastics to deny this given the widespread complete saturation of leftist identity politics into multiple aspects of life. this stuff wouldn't happen without the elites' consent or backing (which is why massive foundations like the ford and rockefellers and open society backed this stuff for the last 40+ years). then there is the elite policy level, e.g. "spreading democracy" or usa state dept backed lgbt groups in places like russia or china.
meanwhile we get the hootering and hollering of the late night tv comedian set and the naughty npr commie podcast crowd who nonironically believe there is a cabal of jethros in the caves of appachalia that secretly convene to work out this week's fox news headlines in cahoots with moustache twirling moneybag fat cats
Asher Diaz
>chapocels The what now?
Asher Barnes
>Criticizes concise writing >Posts an image of Poe The absolute state of pseuds
Jordan Gray
pretty sure he was talking about your verbose post bro.
Evan Wright
>e.g. just include a happily married christian I refuse to believe we have come to an age where even a monogamous "normal" couple, independent of what religion they are, can be precieved as ideologic. Who is to blame for this whole charade? Capitalists with their consumerist ads? Socialists with their extremist "humanitarian" and "utilitarian" ideologies that say everyone needs to be in open relationships? Pseudo-hedonistic buddhists that are too afraid to "get too attached to things"? Tell me who is to blame for this whole stupid bullshit. Is any form and trace of "tradicionalism" doomed to be erased just because of the stimga it has and in the name of productivity, consumption, "Humanity" and "Comune"?
>this whole idea that the elites aren't socially left wing is just absolute insanity
They aren't "socially left-wing", whatever that means, and even if they were, it wouldn't matter, because in a battle between their principles and their economic self-interest, their economic self-interest would win.
It's quite obvious that we live in a world where capitalists constantly need to make new markets in order to increase their profits, and the way they do this includes using ideology in all its forms and variations, and it also includes using governments to invade foreign countries.
To quote Warren Buffett: “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
Juan King
I am not the OP user. Also the post was quite concise desu. Its just that Yea Forums deteriorated (though honestly its always been quite bad) into every 2nd post containing a single sentence and being a borderline meme. The post was not about the length of the writing, but about the density and effectiveness of it.
Christopher Perez
>because in a battle between their principles and their economic self-interest, their economic self-interest would win. Only to the extent to which they understand their own interests. Everyone laid on the guillotine thought they had made the right moves up to that point.
Christian Davis
Most things that are marketed as "woke" fail.
Kayden Jackson
Academia, mostly. Although I could easily make an argument about the decline of religion and the consequences of contraception and people spending longer in education. Sadly, the radical Christians of the last half century were right about the decline of the family unit, but the left has never really had an eye for the social fabric.
Juan Morris
>Only to the extent to which they understand their own interests.
Not really. Even a capitalist can and does do things that is against his own personal economic interests, but what he can't do is act on behalf of all capitalists.
Which is why it never matters if you can find a single capitalist or rich person who is a Communist or a leftie in general, because it doesn't matter when most of them aren't.
Lucas Bailey
that's simply wrong
Aiden Cox
Besides "woke" branding is very different from a brand image that loosely aligns you with woke (educated, affluent) culture. See: arc'teryx, birkenstock, neighborhoods in urban cores, coffee shops, skiing, hiking, iphones
Matthew White
Why don't you rigorously collect and present some data?
Evan Reyes
It doesn't need to be marketed as "woke" though. You can just slap some idpol in the commercials and California liberals just swallow capitalist dick like it's a cheesesteak sandwich.
I can only think of Nike's Kaepernick ad as working. I can't think of many large companies who went the woke route and where it worked.
Sebastian Wilson
There's a broad spectrum of the wealthy that do not consider themselves, or structure their lives, as capitalists. SF/NY software engineers, actors, publishers, assorted "culture" workers, etc.
Jason Thompson
it's a whole cultural affiliation, not just blatantly being "woke" in an ad. The difference between sperging out and dumping all of your cards on the table like "men are bad whites are bad blacks good bad cops yay" and doing what every other contemporary wealthy white educated urban liberal does and dressing, behaving, and speaking in a way that makes even speaking the words "orange man bad" unnecessary.
Brayden Myers
I've got to agree with you. I think Michel Houellebecq even points this out very well during atomised. But he also says that it was inevitable, the growning of new tecnologies, new discoveries and spread of information make any form of religion obsolete, removing bad things that religion had, but also some other good things that were in some way related to it, specially in the terms of relationships. Michel also points out that the "Utilitarian"s wet dreams of create a proto-Brave New World kind of society is mostly impossible due to the natural human individualism that we cannot get rid of.
Matthew Adams
>SF/NY software engineers, actors, publishers, assorted "culture" workers, etc.
Even these people very often have the exact same opinions.
Watch that webm and tell me if he's wrong.
Joshua Moore
Yes, he's quoted somewhere saying what we call political correctness is really a mask for a hatred of the old.
The old can't maximise hedonistic pleasure no matter how many Brave New World drugs we feed them. Ultimately without the old religious structures that ensured every old person was at least married and lived near the spawn of his loins, old age is irredeemably miserable.
If you think this neoliberal atomised shit is bad now, just wait until we get old fellow millenials and zoomers.
Bentley Rogers
The issue is that authorial identity matters more than the writing itself. It lends moral authority to the work. Look for a great writer among the SJW crowd. You won't find one. They are not pressured to do better. They are weak rent seekers on culture, plain and simple.
It is part of the marketing strategy. It gets enormous attention if done right, because it provokes emotional responses and induces sharing behavior on social media. There are true believers too. And sociopaths who use it for their own ends by pretending to care.
Easton Sanchez
Psh. Plan is to buy a (nice, so we can't hear anything through the walls) multifamily home in some comfy city or town so when me and my girl's parents get too old to live on their own we can just move them into the ground floor units. They can walk around, met up with other oldies at coffee shops and senior exercise classes, read all day, and watch our kids so we can work and have date nights.
Ethan Sanchez
Based wholesome life plan right here desu.
>Plan is to buy a house
This is the bit I can't quite get my head around.
Daniel Turner
I am good at making money. Not talented enough at writing to make money from it though, which is my dream.
Joshua Wilson
You are not the culture. Your personal future has no bearing on the millions of familyless internet-reliant ingrates whose true social connections will have dwindled away before they reach sixty. You can have your family, but they will be your society.
Jaxon Morgan
So? People have always sucked.
Austin Sullivan
Double replying here but we do get a trial run on how to manage a massive population of socially isolated dependas with the boomer generation, we can make a couple of mistakes on them and polish it by the time we get the millennial bump.
Matthew Rogers
Look, you idiot. Capitalist dont sell things based on politcs, race, gender, or sex. They market things based on lifestyle.
We live in a world were morons on pol and tumblr have been convinced that their identities are tied in with the products they consume.
An absolute onslaught of mouth breathing consmmerist zombies who have bought into the bourgeois culture war that never ends.
Marketers dont use demographic data, they use psychological data. Because they know you are a moron who is easily manipulated based on your anxieties, fears, desires, and stupidity
>HURRRR DURRR THIS IS MY PRODUCT THIS PRODUCT FOR WHITE MEN
>NOOOO, THIS MY PRODCUT, PRODUCT FOR NON WHITE MEN
Meanwhile the infrastructure around you crumbles and we have been at war since i was in grade school
>n the millions of familyless internet-reliant ingrates whose true social connections I really don't know what you've just said.
Adam Allen
user. I'm in my twenties and it's already happened.
Austin Lopez
>All creations are ideological in a way I bet you think everything is political as well.
Jose Ward
>/pol/ is tied to the products they consume What products? MAGA hats and firearms?
Alexander Long
The attached is famously ideological in its intent and purposes, not especially concise, but immersive because it's well-written, and compelling because it's true.
It doesn't try "to slip the author's ideology in," I don't think. Rather, the ideology is built into the narrative (which is how good stories have always worked).
The problem with sjw stuff is that the ideology is tendentious and false. I see a film like The Girl with All the Gifts -- the ideology is built into the narrative, with a good deal of skill and creativity. But it rubs me the wrong way - irritates the shit out of me, in fact - because the ideology is tendentious and false. Even so, it doesn't seem to be guilty of the sins you ascribe to writers of modern propaganda.
A good meme works because it's true. The only way to avoid that truth is to simply not look at it -- much in the way you simply don't look at a basilisk: youtube.com/watch?v=721XhxAHoUI
Sjw propaganda fails because it's false. But if enough people are sufficiently hypnotized by its appealingly packaged claims, it will eventually win, in the short-term, anyway.
The family did not cause its own decline. You guys are suffering from serious short-sightedness if you think the problems of any age can be explained in timespans of fifty years, or in lazy gesturing towards relaxation of moral virtues. I can’t believe that a board ostensibly oriented toward literature is so uneducated as to be unable to identify the industrial revolution and the trans-Atlantic empires as the most explosive and relevant facts in shaping the world of “current year.”
While I’m at it: as the Unabomber is getting more popular around here, as is his “takedown” of the left, it interests me to see that no one on here has mentioned his total dismissal of the right with just a few lines.
Noah Scott
>user posts an entire chapter of a book Fucking hell mate.
Ayden Perez
I hate to make the cosmological argument, but for any cause that I give, you can always point to an earlier one.
