Oh...M-my old Ring! Oh well… I sh-sh-should very much like, to hold it again, one last time

>Oh...M-my old Ring! Oh well… I sh-sh-should very much like, to hold it again, one last time.

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So if the eagles could fly into mordor, why didnt gandalf just offer one a big fucking salmon or something to nip over and drop the ring into the lava?

He took gandalf's cock up his old ring

Have you seen the size of these eagles? You'd need a pretty big salmon.
Plus, you'd need a special license to fish and the best fishing grounds were near Valinor. Going through the application process would take too long, especially considering that the fishing operation would have to be run by elven union standards.

I wonder what was Aragorn's tax policy for fishing

Only if you promise not to jump-scare me uncle bilbo

yeah it would've taken weeks to even get the forms in order

This but unironically. If the eagles could fly into mordor why didn't Gandalf just get them to fly the ring into mordor?

The Eagles were sentient beings who would also be tempted by the ring. Imagine Sauron but he’s giant and can fly.

So then why not have Frodo ride on the eagle and hold the ring so that they wouldn't be tempted?

Also there wouldn't be a story, but that should be obvious. I agree with flying them as far as they can though. I guess the eagles just couldn't be bothered. God knows

>I'm sure they could sneak in without being detected
Sauron is basically a demigod.
Also the whole point was for Sauron to not realize that someone was trying to enter Mordor and destroy the ring.

Why was Boromir the only main character to be killed off

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Gandalf was killed off too.

Well obviously there'd be no story, which is why adding the eagles was stupid because you have to have a reason why they didn't just fly the fellowship as close as possible and there is no good reason as to why they wouldn't.

Even if you say the eagles couldn't be bothered, that's a stupid excuse because why did they fly in to pick Frodo and Sam up? Why wouldn't they be able to be convinced by Gandalf to fly the fellowship as close as possible so that they could have an easier time destroying the ring, they knew of the rings dangers as well, they wouldn't want it falling into Saurons hands.

They could have had the eagles fly the fellowship as close as possible before Sauron was even aware of the Fellowships existence.

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>main character

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True, but Gandalf was resurrected.

maybe we should just agree that the eagles were a lame way of resolving things.

>why not attempt a HALO insertion three clicks southwest of Mount Doom and infiltrate the compound with a team of Lothlorien Elves while Gandalf provides artillery support

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Sure smells like incel in this thread.

Studies say otherwise.

You'd think so, but no. Retard.

he looks like he fucks black guys

Wrong.

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There are many possible scenarios to achieve a desired outcome but there may only be one correct course of action. This is true in life as well, a very natural view of things reveals this. "The Way" of Taoism and Christianity and the Dharma all point to this very basic reality. We live with so much information that there seems to be infinite solutions to our problems but in reality there are just infinite outcomes, mostly suboptimal ones. The lesson of LotR and other magical stories with seemingly odd rules and "superstitious" gestures is that there are hidden mysterious laws to nature that mankind is only able to grasp intuitively. Science claims that it can reach this methodically and it has had some success but I would argue that magic worked but has been lost to our modern reason based thinking.

Yes and their existence ruins the entire story.

Nice meme, so you have no excuse as to why the eagles couldn't fly the Fellowship as close to Mt. Doom as possible. Lotr is trash.

>Even if you say the eagles couldn't be bothered, that's a stupid excuse because why did they fly in to pick Frodo and Sam up?
Because as a previous user said they are sentient and probably only went in to get them once it was safe to rescue them.

why do you even care so much user

So they wanted to help, so why not fly them close as possible to Mordor while still being safe? They could get pretty damn close, the sky is a big place it'd be hard to be detected by Fellbeasts or Sauron, especially if they flew on the eagles from the beginning when Sauron had no knowledge of the Fellowships existence.

Because this is a trash franchise full of holes.

Hey, I was only /k/-memeing.

If you want a serious answer it's because the eagles are in-universe deus ex machinas. Just like Gandalf could do so much more but he isn't supposed to because he's an angel that should only *guide* the people of Middle Earth.

dumbass. The entire point of the ring is that it corrupts everyone. It's why Gandalf wouldn't carry it, and he wouldn't let a big angel bird carry it either (even with Frodo holding the ring). Frodo failed in the end too.

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>doesn't know where tax policy posting comes from
Sure smells like autism. But the crappy cartoon images gave that away.

In The Hobbit the eagles say that they can’t fly close to towns because farmers shoot at them.

If they can’t get near towns because of one guy with a bow, how are they going to get into Mordor; full of hundreds of thousands of Orcs armed with much better weapons?

Quote
>The Lord of the Eagles would not take them anywhere near where men lived. “They would shoot at us with their great bows of yew,” he said, “for they would think we were after their sheep. And at other times they would be right. No! we are glad to cheat the goblins of their sport, and glad to repay our thanks to you, but we will not risk ourselves for dwarves in the southward plains.”

Ok they're Deus Ex Machinas like Gandalf. But Gandalf has an in-universe explanation as to why he didn't help as much as he could. What is the Eagles reason?

Why wouldn't he let an eagle hold Frodo holding the ring? What reason is there for that? How would it corrupt the eagles if they're not holding it but Frodo is? Because Frodo holding the ring is in close proximity to them? Well Frodo is holding the ring in close proximity to other members of the fellowship while they walked to Mordor and it took a lot longer to walk than to fly. So the eagles would have gotten less corrupted by the ring because they'd be exposed to it less. You're speaking nonsense.

>Mt. Mordor
Delightful

>What is the Eagles reason?
They didn’t want to, they say as much in The Hobbit

The Ring corrupts everyone, you don’t have to be holding it. Smeagol killed Deagol for it even though Deagol was the one holding it. Boromir tried to force Frodo to give it to him, Galadriel was tempted to take it from him, etc. And the temptation would only get more pronounced the closer they got to Mount Doom, as the Ring sensed it was going to be destroyed.

You call the franchise trash but you barely understand the story. Lmao.

And yet for some reason Frodo can go months with it and only get corrupted for a second right at the very end?

Complete asspull. Frodo is literally just a dumb little rich kid midget.

why did Sauron give the ring the power to corrupt everyone? why wouldn't he give the ring the power to teleport to his location? or draw sauron to where it was?

Because the story is incomprehensible tripe. That doesn't prevent it from being trash. It's part of what makes it trash.

gandalf's explanation for not being able to help is quite silly, given what's happening. he's there, he has lots of magical power, but... a demi-god, like him, is fucking with all of middle earth. yet gandalf is not allowed to use his power.

also, the strongest angel of them all, saruman, is helping the demi god fuck with middle earth.

...but gandalf isn't allowed to use his powers.

guiding mortals to be on the right path is fine when it's just mortals on mortals. but... it's the strongest wizard + extremely powerful demigod vs mortals.... bit silly.

Mordor is a big place, just fly in away from where orcs are and drop off the fellowship and have them walk the rest of the way there.

>greentexting typos because you have no argument
Delightful.

First of all why didn't they want to? Why didn't they want to fly the fellowship as close as possible to Mordor or Mt. Doom?

If you can answer that first question, then secondly they are aware of the dangers of Sauron getting his hands of the ring, so why wouldn't Gandalf be able to convince them to do it? Why would the Eagles rather greatly increase the risk of Sauron getting the ring rather than fly the fellowship as close as possible to Mt. Doom or mordor as they could while staying safe?

Frodo is holding the ring in close proximity to other members of the fellowship while they walked to Mordor and it took a lot longer to walk than to fly. So the eagles would have gotten less corrupted by the ring because they'd be exposed to it less.

Sure they'd get corrupted by the ring, but the fellowship was more corrupted by it while they walked their because they were in closer proximity. That's not a good reason as to why they couldn't fly them as close as possible. The eagles could be less corrupted than the fellowship was.

What don't I understand?

A typo is a problem translating your intention from your fingers to your keyboard

It's not a typo when the root of the problem was that your brain chose to formulate the wrong word, and then proceeded to transmit that correctly from fingers to keyboard

It’s not a power he gave the ring, it’s just a side effect of him imbuing it with his strength

You've clearly never worked in a strong hierarchy, like the military or the gods of middle earth.

Gandalf didn't have explicit authorization to escalate his involvement. Just like random Indian privates aren't shooting at Pakistani border guards.

that's why Frodo took the fuck off and abandoned the Fellowship, retard. If Boromir almost got his hands on the ring, fucking giant eagles carrying Frodo could've definitely done it. Frodo would've been entirely at their mercy.

why?

why'd he have to die to get permission to use more power?

>why'd he have to die to get permission to use more power?
Rules of (Divine) Engagement. The divine bureaucracy ignored his status reports and was caught up in red tape until wizard blood was shed. You know how it is.

Why does God let people get into danger in real life before saving them? Sometimes he even lets them die on the operating table and they're literally medically dead until they're saved

Literally the exact same thing the higher powers of middle earth are doing

>playing semantics because you have no argument.
Delightful.

Ok? So the Eagles fly Frodo and Sam 90% to Mordor or like 75% or half-way or whatever. What reason was there for them to walk all the way there rather than hasten their trip by having the eagles fly them as close as they possibly could without the corruption taking over the closer and closer they got to mordor?

>why'd he have to die to get permission to use more power?
He literally says why when he meets the trio in the Two Towers, re watch them and don't tab out every 30 seconds and you won't be asking why, why, why.

Idk why but
>sauronman
Got me xd

speed was not an issue when the quest set out, they could've chilled in Rivendell for years and nothing would've changed.
Also, how would that work? Frodo tells the eagles "ok the corruption meter is almost full, you can drop me off now!" What if they say no, because the ring entices them?

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Why do I need an argument to point out your misuse of a word? What side of the argument would you like me to join?

All it takes is one of the Eagles thinking for a split second “Hey if I make one errant movement I could kill this guy and pluck the ring off his corpse, then I could become the new Lord of the Eagles and I could defeat Sauron and nobody would ever bother us again”. Would you take that chance? Beings of greater power are even more susceptible to the Ring’s influence, which is why Gandalf doesn’t even want to touch it.

Also getting close to Mordor doesn’t really help. They’d still have to cross the plains of Gorgoroth which is where all the Orcs are encamped. And if they took a massive bird there they definitely wouldn’t have been able to get in unnoticed.

>why doesn't Eru just slap Sauron's shit?

I remember this made me jump

he did at the end

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I love how people try to defend the Eagles with such eagerness, when Tolkien himself conceded that they were not that great as a plot device, and that the more he used them the more you needed to supend desbelief.

Because they didn't have ballistic weapons they hade fucking melee weapons.
You can potentially kill several hundred people alone with enough ammo, weapons training, and a good position.
Its a LOT harder to do with a sword ot amd axe

I honestly hated that explanation, that everything that happened there was just Eru's machinations. The guy promises to never intervene, and then just puts such a farce to pretend he isn't taking action? What the fuck?

If you're referring to the incident in the volcano, he was barely involved. All he did was give Sméagol a little nudge out of the door.

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This is about plotholes. Sure the eagles could have been corrupted by the ring like Boromir (especially the closer they got to Mordor) but Frodo didn't decide to ditch the fellowship until after what happened with Boromir. He didn't realize that would happen from the very beginning which was why he left with the fellowship in the beginning, if he realized that would happen he never would have left with the fellowship in the first place.

So even if the eagles would have been corrupted like Boromir, it doesn't matter. If Frodo and everyone was so concerned about the corruption of the ring, the fellowship never would have existed, so if they weren't concerned enough about corruption to not make the fellowship, why didn't they get the eagles to fly Frodo as close as possible?

Well they only get used three times total, and I think there’s a reasonable explanation as to why they can’t help more each time
>Hobbit
Some of them might get shot, they didn’t want to risk their lives for a bunch of greedy dwarves
>LotR helping Gandalf escape Isengard
Gwaihir won’t take him further because it was a one-off favour for Radagast
>LotR helping the Battle of the Morannon
It’s the big final stand against the forces of Sauron and if they don’t do something now it’s going to be too late. Eru might’ve even just told them to help seeing as how he kind of cheated by tripping Gollum

why didn't the eagles use the ring for themselves?

Their talons are too big to wear it, duh.

well in the books Boromir and Aragorn are only with them because they're going to Minas Tirith, which means they're going by the same road for a long while. And Gandalf doesn't trust Boromir from the outset. Gandalf probably didn't plan on dying to a Balrog and so thought he could keep an eye on Boromir and the others.
Sure maybe the Fellowship shouldn't have existed, but Frodo couldn't have gone alone either.

but the ring changes to fit different sized fingers wouldn't it get bigger to fit one of their talons?
i think the ring would like that, lots of air mileage it could get back to sauron really fast

So why did they decide to go with the Fellowship and not the eagles when the eagles?

It would only take a crow or a werewolf or something seeing the Eagles beelining for Mordor and then Sauron would know, taking away the advantage, and maybe even working against them

Eagles could easily drop Frodo and take the ring.
Boromir could do what he did and fail even without Gandalf watching his back all the time.

some say sauron was provoked

>Hobbit

The Eagles also fought in the Battle of FIve Armies

Again why would the Eagles even want to help? They already went “No way fag” when asked to help the dwarves get where they needed to go in The Hobbit, and they were very reluctant to save Gandalf from Isengard

The ring's like a metal version of those stretchable belts or one-size-fits-all clothes, there's a limit to how much it can stretch.

Fpbp

Oh yeah, I guess that one is a little inexplicable. Maybe because they really hate Goblins? Idk

that also explains the age-old question "why didn't the Ring expand to become as tall as a mountain so the Nazgul could see it"

>not the eagles when the eagles
why can't zoomers type in complete sentences?

well it could give it a good old try.
spin off book where the eagles take over middle earth with the one ring when

I guess you could explain that by saying that the Battle took place close to where they roosted so if they didn’t help out then the Orcs would’ve probably started harassing them

And it would only take a crow or a werewolf or something seeing the fellowship beelining for mordor and then Sauron would know.

How would Sauron know a hobbit flying on an eagle means they have the ring and are going to destroy it? How does he know they're going to Mordor?

Also why can't they just fly high enough to stay out of sight of werewolves and outside of a crows altitude?

Sure they could drop Frodo, but just like Gandalf was there to keep watch over Boromir Gandalf would be there to keep watch over the eagles. So if the eagles try to drop Frodo all Gandalf has to do is cast a spell to slow his fall or something so that Frodo lands safely and then they just walk.

Why wouldn't the eagles want to help? They know of the dangers of the ring and would surely want it to be destroyed.

>calling out typos because you have no argument.
Delightful.

Right. The ring (presumably) doesn't pick up nearby metal to grow, so it's got a finite amount of evil metal in it, so if it grew too big you'd have a giant, basically invisible band.

And just imagine what that does to its tensile strength.

>How would Sauron know a hobbit flying on an eagle means they have the ring and are going to destroy it? How does he know they're going to Mordor?

It's strange shit, even by the standard of Middle Earth. Once he gets the report (after his underlings sign off on it and his chief of staff fits it into his schedule for executive review), he casts his eye on the weird eagle(s) and sees the ring.

>Also why can't they just fly high enough to stay out of sight of werewolves and outside of a crows altitude?

Too high and the hobbits suffocate or freeze. Middle Earth has not yet invented oxygen tanks.

>And it would only take a crow or a werewolf or something seeing the fellowship beelining for mordor and then Sauron would know.
no. There's a reason they didn't take any OP legendary elf warriors like Glorfindel with them. It would've been too telling. Sauron had no idea what they were doing until Frodo put the ring on in Mt. Doom.

>it's confirmed that Sauron uses spies like bats and evil birds
>"HUUUUUR Y DON UZE EAGLZ 2 FLI RNG 2 LAAV? LOL?"

Why not have Gandalf cast a spell to keep Frodo safe at high altitudes?

Yes, exactly. So the concerns of being spotted are bullshit.

Bats and birds can only fly so high, so just fly outside of their altitude. Also the sky is huge.

And yet they took Gandalf

There are situations where warmth or oxygen spells would've been obvious to use but weren't, so we can reasonably conclude Gandalf doesn't have that power (or at least not enough power to use it recklessly, which means continuous oxygen for several hours of eagle flight time is out of the question).

>Why wouldn't the eagles want to help?
They're servants of Manwe. Them being involved in mortal affairs at all is unusual. If Sauron wins they would just fuck off back to Valinor.

Gandalf's been doing all kinds of weird shit like visiting fireworks merchants and weed dealers for the past 15 000 years, having him fly on eagles with a bunch of midgets would warrant a second look though.
>Yes, exactly. So the concerns of being spotted are bullshit.
it's not bullshit. The eagles would draw attention while they were relying on stealth.

I think someone would have tried to take the ring from Frodo. In the first movie it's implied that even Aragorn couldnt have resisted, which is why Frodo has to go alone

The endangered Ruppell's griffon vulture is the highest flying bird ever recorded, and it can ascend to heights of 37,000 feet. Airplanes fly at altitudes from about 33,000 feet to 42,000 feet. Private jets typically take the higher end, cruising at around 41,000 feet so they can travel the most direct route. Frodo would have been fine with the eagles flying him at 42,000 (or possibly even higher) feet which would be out of sight of people on the ground and crows (Crows can't reach altitudes anywhere close to even 30,000). So this whole warmth and oxygen is just not even a real concern.

Yet they help all the time, so why wouldn't they help in this case?

Yet he didn't go alone, he went with the fellowship. So I'm asking why did he go with the fellowship and not the eagles?

>those eagles are flying higher than usual, not suspicious at all!

How would anyone know the eagles are flying that high? They'd be out of sight of everyone, no one would know.

Gandalf was on Sauron’s side

Don't you ever say that shit again.

People need oxygen for the mere 25,000 feet of Everest. That's why those planes all have pressurized cabinets and open-air planes have much lower service ceilings.

It's not that there's no oxygen that high up, it's that it's not enough to keep someone conscious.

Ok so Frodo loses consciousness, him losing consciousness on the flight is less risk than walking that entire distance.

Well it starts as losing consciousness, but prolonged lack of oxygen like that ends up causing brain damage.

So then they can periodically descend for Frodo's health. Problem solved.

Cause, Saurion would notice that Eagles dropped off something or someone near or in Mordor and would focus his attention there.

That gets back to the problem of alerting Sauron's crow scouts (or their designated replacements during union-mandated breaks).

What would have happened if Frodo gave him the ring? Would he have put it on and ran off?

The eagle can just leave the ring on frodo and throw him in the lava

Weren't they confirmed to be total dicks (which all irl birds are) in the books? And they only did it because they owed Gandalf a favor?

How would he notice?

So the eagles can start to descend, and if they see a crow they wait for it to pass then continue. Problem solved.

So could Sam.

>Why does God ...in real life
user...

Yeah, but theyre eagles. Theyd just enslave the salmon and mice and shit maybe ask for tributes of twigs for nests.

>How would he notice?

Cause Eagles don't usually hang around anywhere near Mordor. And they're fucking huge, not known for their stealth. And them landing at the border of his kingdom would be suspicious.
If a Chinook helicopter lands in my street, I'll raise an eyebrow.

>and if they see a crow they wait for it to pass then continue

Crows would see the iggles before the iggles can see the crows.

Think, giant brown thing against blue/black/white sky vs. tiny black thing against grey/brown/black earth. And all it takes is one crow seeing something anywhere in the hundreds of miles of flying.

And mordor is huge crows are not keeping watch of every square inch of mordor and the surrounding area, they could land near mordor undetected.

No because the eagles would be flying higher than the crows out of their sight. A crow can not fly while looking up above him.

>the eagles would be flying higher than the crows out of their sight
Not when they descend to get Frodo oxygen prior to him sustaining permanent brain damage.

The reason why they didn't take the eagles to or near mordor is that it would have only saved them time at the expense of secrecy. They had time, even moving at the pace they were forced saruman and sauron to play their hands prematurely, resulting in their losses at the hornburg and the pelennor respectively. What they needed was secrecy, by not tipping sauron off that they were intending to destroy the ring. Even without the ring, sauron would have won a slow, methodical conquest over generations, but destroying the ring was the only chance at destroying him. If he saw a bunch of eagles flying people he already knows have previously held the ring in their posession, he would immediately assume their intention, and with a single thought could order the nazgul to fly to Dr. Doom and destroy the entrance/stand guard while the eagles were still a hundred miles out. The only reason he hadn't done so already was because he had never conceived that as a possibility, always assuming someone would attempt to use it for their own purposes. In the end he was right anyway.

>Dr. Doom
Delightful

i like to think of these threads as conversations they had at the council meeting before the fellowship left Rivendell

>if we just ask the eagles-
>for christ sake glorfindel give it up

most autistic post I’ve read in a long time

WAt

I still don't understand the second half of that quote.
I just think Bilbo is being intentionally obtuse, just to make fun of all the bumpkins that live around him.

You clearly don't understand half that post half as well as you should like. And you like less than half of it half as well as it deserves.

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Shouldn't the half of people he doesn't like as much as they deserve be in the half he knows?

Half as more, twice as less

>white

"no!"

Also you're a trashed franchise who's full of holes

why didnt they give the ring to him?

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That's assuming the crows can cover every square inch of mordor and the surrounding area. That's impossible, theuy could descend in areas where no crows are.

It's not just time it's safer. What if Frodo fell and broke his leg? What if he ran out of food? What if he got lost? What if he got attacked by highwaymen or a wild beast? It's not just about convienence.

Ad hom attacks becauseyou have no argument I see.

sorry I havent read the thread yet but dont you think Sauron, being a god of sorts, would be able to sense the presence of the Eagles, who are also angels or whatever, entering Mordor, and send hi Nazgul against them?

“Mraaaagh!”
*sobbing*

So then they don't have to enter mordor, jsut get close

>That's impossible
Even if crows were on union-mandated 8 hour shifts, 3 can provide 24 hour coverage with a radius of seeing-giant-flock-of-eagles-descending-for-oxygen-within-10-miles. Mordor's perimeter and buffer space around it could be completely monitored by fewer than 1,000.

What do you base those logistics on?

Similar logistics to Rohan's watchtower sentinels sitting around waiting to light fires, Sauron would be foolish not to have a chain of static sentinels and crows consume less maggoty bread than orcs.

So call it 2,000 crows total, for bread delivery and when other crows get sick or go on vacation.

yea you're right, it would be a much better story if Tolkien outlined the exact flying altitude of the Eagles and explained why it was or wasn't feasible.

For comparison, during WWI (with humans handling the logistic side of things)
>The US Army Signal Corps used 600 pigeons in France alone.
So a dark kingdom could easily train and support that many sentinel crows.

Why didn’t he comeback like Gandalf after he died

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He was already white, no more lives.

>what about a catapult?
>fuck this we've been here hours, let's just send the fat midgets

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Well he didnt sense frodo and his buttboys who were actually carrying the ring so probs not.

That's why they sent the fellowship with him, so they could protect him. They sussed out the safest route they could find without being spotted. It was never going to be perfectly safe, hence the adventure of it all. They only took moria because all other routes were closed to them and saruman was closing in. Also, landing just outside of mordor wouldn't have been any different; there's nothing of importance for 100 miles around mordor except gondor, and as soon as sauron believed pippin might be in possession of the ring, and watched him ride to gondor from barad dur, he immediately laid seige. Plus most of the nazgul were scouting just outside of mordor, and would have intercepted them with ease.

they're neutral, they don't care for men nor elves so they wouldn't risk themselves carrying the ring, rescueing bilbo after the forces of sauron are routed is completely diferent

>you’re a big salmon

Because Gandalf and the eagles don't really give a fuck what happens to Middle Earth. Gandalf only gave the Fellowship a bit of help cause he liked hanging out with hobbits.

He had spent up all his magical power. I've used this comparison before, but imagine that gandalf had a savings account with Eru, but got robbed by the balrog and lost all the money he had in his pocket. He was still able to withdraw from his bank after talking with Eru.

Sauronman had taken all of his money out of the bank and spent it on multiple failed enterprises. Nobody wanted to give him a loan extension.

>do we take the fast, safe route that is almost certain to end in abject failure?
>or do we take the long, risky route that has a marginal chance of success?
They chose the option that worked best desu

Actually pretty good analogy

>mfw i realize that the valar only sunk the numenorean fleet because they hadn't filled out proper fishing paperwork

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