>inconsistent and downright shitty art
>writers changing every so often, no one vision and disjointed pacing
>frequent retcons so the story have no stakes and impact
>deaths literally dont matter and no true closure/progress for characters
WhY DoEs ManGa SeLl mOre Guizzz
Wait, which are you describing?
>guaranteedreplies.jpg
Capecomics should just die, or at least DC and Marvel should diversify their market.
I honestly regret getting into modern comics, the amount of shit you eat for a few good issues / runs isnt worth it.
Dbz and db manga were one of the best comic or manga ever from artistic standard.
If only comics outside of big two existed...
It really isn’t worth it. Even in a conceptual level it sound awful. The biggest American comic publishers only do comics about one thematic in a share universe the BOTH of them. Jesus.
Cape comics are more about the characters than the story which is why they've held on to the characters as long as they have. That and money.
Manga enjoys more consistent writing and a clear beginning and end but unless your shit is Gundam, Naruto or DBZ it will be forgotten and no money will be made from it
Nobody cares about print. It’s all movies now.
Make a new board just for Marvel and DC material and every comic and cartoon not related stays on Yea Forums.
I love Toriyama but that's nonsense. DB's peak as a comic was the Jr volume.
It’s better to be forgotten t b h.
>WhY DoEs ManGa SeLl mOre Guizzz
Manga only sells more if you compare bookscan Manga sales to comicstore comic sales, and even then you have to ignore comics aimed at kids.
Does that sound like a victory to you, weeb?
Nonsense, the art improves drastically from piccolo jr fight to even something as early as Frieza vs Goku. If you're considering judging Dragon Ball "as a comic" then you have to look at where the art was at it's peak
My personal peak was Namek arc, specifically before the arrival of Goku. Stakes and tension felt the highest, the villIains felt unstoppable, and it felt like the heroes were in the most danger.
>Can’t have threads about Sadpanda dying and people trying to get their stuff downloaded before it’s gone
>can still our daily dose of West vs east threads
Thanks mods
>>writers changing every so often, no one vision
AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.
I'm sick and tired of DBZ, Naruto, The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, George Lucas, Harry Potter, RR Martin, EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Jagex, Hasbro, Disney, Dreamworks, Pixar, 20th Century Fox where it's just 1 autistic obsessive creator/executive keeping his franchise under his belt like he's bullying it and needs his punching bag wife to sate his addiction or else he dies.
I'm satisfied with the way Scooby Doo's reboots have been treated.
>things that happened over 30 years ago
Comics were straight up embarrassing manga around that time.
You really have to be peak weeb to believe that Dragon Ball is the apex of comic books writing.
Let me guess: "My Hero Academia" is modern Watchmen, right?
What is this, Metabarons?
Nobody cares about French and Europoor. How many of them threads are on Yea Forums right now? More than 2? Yeah, didnt think so. Faget
>frequent retcons so the story have no stakes and impact
>deaths literally dont matter and no true closure/progress for characters
These are both wrong though, only a continuityfag or casualfag is autistic enough to complain about stories getting retconned and closure getting reversed. A true comicschad evaluates all stories and runs on their own merits.
>DUDE JUST FORGET EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED BEFORE IT’S OLD STUFF ANYWAY
A true comicschad would have drop anything from the big a long time ago.
Those stories don't exist in a vacuum. They exist within a greater context. That's how DC and Marvel publishes their books, despite their freqient retcons. That's how they're meant to be interpreted.
Dragonball isn't even the best shonen in shonen jump, let alone the best manga, let alone the best comic.
user. Sadpanda is gone. It's over.
>They exist within a greater context.
Yeah, and that context doesn't include books published 30 years later.
>so angry that he capslocks and forgets a word
And I'm advocating the opposite, to read old stuff and not care if new stuff retconned it away.
>giving a shit about euroshit and indiefags
HAHAHAH
Personally I think nothing ever felt as dangerous and high-stakes as the original Piccolo arc. It's an impopular opinion because Z is much more popular, but Piccolo arc was really the only time when I believed those who were killed weren't coming back. The Dragon Balls were destroyed and there was seemingly nothing they could have done until Karin revelaed to Goku that he could go to see Kami-sama to ask him to reconstruct the DBs. In the Saiyan saga Vegeta already foreshadows the idea of looking for a second set of Dragon Balls in Namek, so you already know where the story is going to go after that. Piccolo arc was complete despair until the end.
Exactly this. There's no continuity in capes, characters feel like props, individual stories don't matter only events and status quo and marketing.
Manga and other comics are self contained, with one creative team, they belong to the creators who most of the time know where to take the story.
European comics sell more on average on their countries of origin than Big Two shit sells on America, but sure.
You're a child
Eurocomics and manga are the only comics worth reading.
That's why I loved invincible. A cape comic with actual consequences.
Manga creators most of the time are writing week-to-week. Your precious dragonball had some of its best moments come from editors telling Toriyama his ideas were stupid and to do something else instead.
amen brother. Demon King Piccolo felt like a genuine threat and murdering Krillin right at the beginning of the arc actually set the stakes high enough so finding the dragon balls seemed important.
Comics died after people like jack kirby died.
>sales = quality
Why do eurofags always reek of insecurity and desperation in being relevant?
You need to read runs by writers, not follow characters.
if they cared about their characters, they wouldn't be writing a million incarnations of spiderman.
stay mad with your black tranny blind capeshit that dont sell
Euroshit always looks amazing but the stores are always sub-capeshit levels
>My Yuro diversity cuck shit is better than your Mutt diversity cuck shit!
A good capeshit story works on both levels. A run should have closure and feel like a complete story BUT if you're into the broader picture, they are just one panel of a vast quilt. But rarely is there any benefit from reading an entire long running series (unless it's something like Avengers Forever, which is like continuity porn)
>mangas are cancelled wothout a second thought if 8 chapters don't place particularly well in the weekly ranking
>in order to maintain their chapters well-placed every week, they just follow whatever is trending amongst manga readers, often changing plans dozens of times per arc
>the editor's hand are much heavier in manga than inwestern comic books.
>"DAMN! MANGA IS SO PERFECT! WHY CAN'T WESTERN CREATORS HAVE THIS LEVEL OF FREEDOM?"
The average weeb is dumber than the average dog.
What if your a fan of characters?
>>the editor's hand are much heavier in manga than inwestern comic books.
Who complains about this?
Usually the editors keep you from getting the dumbest shit.
Mangakas are creative but also have some dumb ideas. If you dong reign them in you get horseshit
>Doesnt want a stricter filter for maximum quality control
>Willing to eat whatever some tumblr faggots shit on your page for some reason
????????
The next thing you are gonna say is "m-muh work condition"
Then strap in and prepare to suffer, buddy.
>Mangakas are creative
They have been writing nothing but variations of Dragon Ball for 40 years now.
Manga aciton scenes>>>>.Western action scenes
Manga art quality>>>>> Western comics
Seriously, western comics look like are for genuine children half of the time.
>Manga art quality>>>>> Western comics
HxH.jpg
>Naruto has finished his original story, a wife and kids now. true closure and a satisfying end for our hero
>Peter parker has been a teenager for the last 40 years, his only marrige was shortly retconned
>Bruce waynes wedding was literally a baited joke by DC
I dont know how you can put your investment to something thats not going to have any progress in the next 20 years. what a joke.
>Actually trying to complain about fighting / battle manga where the majority of murica comic is capeshit
Manga objectively has more theme and diversity than western comic. Do you have any modern comic about gambling? Neet? Sport? Cooking? Murder mystery? Yeah didnt think so. The best shit you can hope to slurp nowadays come in two flavor : brainless fighting capeshit or kiddie underage light hearted comedy
Western comic is fucking stale
Western stories >>>>>>>> Manga stories
Western adaptations >>>>>>>>> Manga adaptations
Western Box Office >>>>>>>>>>> Manga Box Office
Seriously, manga stories look like they are for genuine children half of the time.
>WhY DoEs ManGa SeLl mOre Guizzz
the main reason why manga is selling better is that it's not afraid producing entertainment for white boys. meanwhile every comic has to have a sjw and feminist angle. With censored female costumes and social justice dialogue + story lines about "female empowerment" aka "white men suck"
I'll give you that one, however when togashi tries his style is still great.
besides the writing quality is so good Its forgivable
This. I regret giving capeshit a chance. Follow competent writers that actually care about the character vs "LOL I like X, I'll buy/waste my time with this"
>Manga objectively has more theme and diversity than western comic
Name 3 good mangas written in the last 10 years.
>the main reason why manga is selling better
It isn't.
Literally no manga will sell more in the US than the first issue of fucking "DCeased".
Tsugumomo, Liar Game, Keyman
That was easy
Euro comic writers and artists also can afford a nice lifestyle unlike the US "pros" who often life in their car
>Liar Game
The only one I read from that, and it is shit.
Care to try again?
in total they totally do sale more.
Elaborate about how it is shit. I purposely listed 3 casual manga and you know only one of them so i know you are a maximum casual with colossal shit taste, but do go on
They don't.
Literally all "manga sells better guyz" list compares bookstore sales to comicstore sales, AND ignore all the non-big two comics.
How can you weeaboos even be proud of that? It's like saying that the Detroit Lions would totally win against the Patriots if the Patriots only had one player on the team. It's pathetic.
Also, I want you to name one manga that sells better in the US than the first issue of "Black Cat". Good luck.
Japan has a more densely homogenized population making distribution and marketing a lot easier. Not-Japan is spread out all over the world.
I want to say it's all about target audience and availability. Manga is released in phonebook anthologies with all sorts of other authors covering all kinds of genres, so japs can decide which tankobons to buy when the volumes are released since the phonebooks are just tossed out since they take up too much room while the west has to buy individual issues. Manga seems to be released in a much larger capacity than capeshit since there are weekly, bi-weekly, and monthly manga while most comics are monthly.
Imagine being so brainwashed you are actually content with a incoherent plotline and total perversion of characters
This "Yeah the majority of it is shit but if you just kinda skim around this part here and sprinkle some candy on top it is sorta edible" mindset is probably the most cuckhold shit i ever seen
>Imagine being so brainwashed you are actually content with a incoherent plotline and total perversion of characters
Isn't Dragon Ball Super an ámazing success?
Based.
>I purposely listed 3 casual manga and you know only one of them so i know you are a maximum casual with colossal shit taste, but do go on
Boy oh boy, we have a manga connoisseur over here.
Enlight my non-weeb ass, weebmaster. Name your 3 favorite mangas published in the last 10 years. Say what makes them the masterpiece of literature you believe they are.
That's shounen, bud. This is as ignorant as saying all western comics are Superman.
I must have missed the bit where Vegeta turned gay, or Goku power actually operate from the Apeforce from Ape dimension of 21732162th universe
Why? Would you even know? Maybe i should just say naruto, one piece, bleach so you might have some vague ideas? Or do you just want me to spoonfeed you?
coming up with an answer to this for comics would be even worse
Is there even one good comic in the last 10 years?
>That's shounen, bud
Shonen is the only type of manga that sells.
Everything else doesn't even pay the price of the paper its printed on.
>Goku power actually operate from the Apeforce from Ape dimension of 21732162th universe
No, it comes from "Sayan Particles" that can be stimulated if the Sayan concentrates on a itch on his back.
Behold, the creativety of Weeb writters.
>Go into thread discussing Goku
>Able to discuss him using his story and some movies to talk about all types of things
>Go into thread discussing Batman
>7 different derails happening due to people wanting to bounce between what comic run, author, what-if story, new/old age, era, costume, blood type, food habits, dog or cat person, the batman being discussed is and leading to nothing interesting being talked about
>Shonen is the only type of manga that sells.
What does that have to do with what I replied to?
The latest "League of Extraordinary Gentleman" ended a few days ago.
Needless to say, it's objectively better written than anything ever written by a Japanese person. You should try it when you get bored of "Please Don't Bully Me, Nagatoro".
>Keyman
>Good
>Go into thread discussing Goku
>7 different derails happening due to people wanting to bounce between whether the movies are canon, whether the original ending to DB was better, whether DB Minus is really canon, whether the DBS manga or the DBS show is the real DBS canon, whether Goku is a literal retard or secretly the ultimate villain, or which angel they want to fuck and leading to nothing interesting being talked about
FTFY
>Go into thread discussing Goku
>Able to discuss him using his story and some movies to talk about all types of things
In what universe?
Marvel and DC are entertainment divisions now, the comics are just being made for novelty now
To weebs, discussing story = discussing power-levels.
They believe that "Who wins, Jiren or Hitto or Goku SSJBSSJ with Kaioken activated?" is a literary thesis.
>trolls trolling trolls
Good thread.
Imagine you're a thor fan and out of nowhere you're forced to read shitty comics about some boring chick because 'thor is just who uses the hammer'
What a load of fucking horseshit.
Fuck comics.
Why are these threads always full of clueless morons that think all manga is weekly and battle shonen? Why are these threads always full of people ignoring the fact that a collection of american comics might end up selling 30k at best while manga volumes sell millions? Why are these threads always full of ignorant people that don't understand the fact that manga sells well everywhere and not just in their home country?
>Keyman
>Not good
>discussing story = discussing power-levels
Sounds like capetards.
>manga volumes sell millions
Only three current mangas can do that. One Piece, Attack on Titan and Hunter vs Hunter.
And they only sell like that in their home turf. In the US, the best-selling manga will still sell worse than the first issue of "Black Cat".
>this impresses the weeb
Wew.
I don't think it's from the Jodoverse.
Yeah the art is nice and is what made me read it at first, too bad the story is shit.
Shounenscum and Capeshitters are two sides of the same Subhuman coin
Only difference is that Yea Forums mods don't let Shounentards bully everyone else while Capeshitters have a free reign to bully everyone and act like gatekeeping retards who expect everyone to read 1000 comics a day to understand the current plot
Only Fateshitters have that kind of Gatekeeping autism
Arent you glad i posted an image for you to latch onto
>In the US, the best-selling manga will still sell worse than the first issue of "Variant Cat #1".
Fights (just direct physical fights, with or without superpowers) in particular are absolute shit in comics compared to even average manga. Admittedly some of this is due to the more generous page counts (you can't really have a 50-page single fight when your entire arc is supposed to only last for 150 pages), but I definitely think a lot of it is simply comic artists not trying hard enough to make fights dynamic or exciting to look at.
This but replace
>mods
with The Comics Code of 1954 and Diamond Comic Distributors.
Its not the apex of comics writing but probably the most well-rounded comics in terms of story and action
>And they only sell like that in their home turf. In the US, the best-selling manga will still sell worse than the first issue of "Black Cat
Prove it.
>"Give up, Rorschach! My power-level is too high. You can't beat me!"
>"You may be a god, Dr. Manhattan, but you are alone. No matter how powerful you are, you will never have the one power that matters: the will to protect YOUR NAKAMA! UNITED STATES OF NIXON!!"
>*punches Dr. Manhattan in the belly*
>"NOOOOOO! HOW CAN THAT BE? WHEN DID RORSCHACH LEARN THIS TECHNIC? NOOOOOOO!"
The Fourth Power. He did the art for Metabarons.
>Only difference is that Yea Forums mods don't let Shounentards bully everyone
This used to be true but not anymore.
Nobody seems to be defending comics on you tube other than a few genuine oldfags in their 40s or 50s. Comics are literally dead. The industry turned into a very small community on Twitter
>Nobody seems to be defending comics on you tube
The state of weebs.
I miss old sexy maria hill
It's true tho. Some popular comic channels are just for casual faggots who don't give a damn about the industry or the sales. They just consume some mega popular capeshit series like AAA games. Don't really defend anything.
fpbp
Once Dark Horse and Image died then American Comics literally become 100% Capeshit and licences IP
It doesn't in the US. Wew what a retarded thread.
Muh work condition
user, look up bookscan charts and the 2017-2018 yearly comic sales. Tokyo Ghoul, all volumes in the US released at that time, barely sold 200k copies. That’s all the volumes released in that year. In one month, Batman sells half of that, and was doing so until recently, TWICE. Fucking Black Cat with a shit ton of variants can reach half of that in a single month, and it’s a single issue. Yearly, all Superman ISSUES would sell around those numbers yearly. Action Comics #1000 sold more than any manga did in the US and as much as a ton of monthly manga do in Japan. Manga in the US sells like dog shit; all the weebs pirate manga. None of them actually buy shit.
>you're forced to read shitty comics about some boring chick because 'thor is just who uses the hammer'
But you're not forced to read them and Masterson was a better Thor than Thor anyway
>Manga in the US sells like dog shit
You have to be a special kind of moron to say this.
>want to get into a series
>6 issues of story and then
>FUCK YOU here's a giant multi series event
Comic fans on YouTube don’t feel the need to defend their hobby. There’s a reason Comicstorian, Variant, ComicsExplained,ComicPop, Comic Drake and even fucking Linkara are more popular than outrage fags like Diversity in Comics or YellowFlash: because they’re not spewing outage bullshit 24/7 and would rather share heir hobby. They’re not gate keeping anyone, they’re not tossing around hatred everywhere and they actually argue real issues in the industry instead of hyping up a non-existent culture war.
It’s true, though. In Japan, One Piece sells millions of copies, while in the US it doesn’t even sell as much as Captain Marvel. Weebs aren’t buying the manga, they’re reading it off of whatever free website is available. Manga piracy has been an issue that many anime YouTubers bring up. Tokyo Ghoul of all things outsells One Piece in US manga sales. Boruto sells less than fucking Kamala Khan. Jojo barely sells despite how popular it is. The Legend of Zelda manga actually makes almost as much as Spider-Man does, but those are manga based on games owned by a similarly huge corporation and not some original story. Motherfucker, My Hero Academia doesn’t sell as much as fucking Superman, and Superman has fucking Bendis. Bendis sells more than MHA does in the US. In Japan, manga is insanely popular, but in the US it’s a smaller market, especially if you count the direct market of comic shops into account.
>Comics sell well and are fine!
Literally same shit meme as comics gate. They just ignore the decline cause normalfags hate to think about a negative thing.
How is holding on to your own creative vision a bad thing?
>source: trust me dude
>manga has a smaller market in the US
excluding comic book film adaptations, this is almost definitely bullshit. it's definitely not handled in the best way possible, because so much money could be made off of advertising if they knew what they were doing, but the audience for manga is so much larger than that of comic books. i can't even say i personally know a single person who's read a comic book in their life, but almost every teenager has read manga before.
also, contrary to what you think, manga as a whole is not "insanely popular" in Japan. probably less than 1% even sell 10000 copies per volume, which is essentially lunch money for a mangaka. many manga do far better overseas than in Japan.
>but the audience for manga is so much larger than that of comic books
Name 3 mangas that have sold better in the US than the first issue of "DCeased".
East vs west threads are retarded. I don't need to be reminded for the thousandth time why one country's fictional work is better than the other's. Can't we just not have these threads?
the size of an audience has absolutely nothing to do with sales, so that's a dumb question.
>Why doesn't the west make more adult animation?
>Why do cartoons look so ugly despite costing more?
>Why is manga better than comics?
It's all so tiresome
I'm Spanish but I'm too lazy to go buy it, is the English translation good?
Yeah it isn't bad.
>hasn't read it
[citation needed]
>20 years
Peter got out of school in the 70s and after 30 years of the slowest ass development he went back to the start with one deal with the devil
Really shitty business model. It' can't be creative or inclusive at all. All they can do is produce 500 types of protags for spiderman and shit, and say its diverse.
Nah mate, you missed the part where I stopped with dragon ball because it's shit and moved on because I don't need to defend a fucking company on the internet
It's not even East vs West
It's basically Americans who hate capeComics and Europeans/Third worlders who grew up on Manga vs slightly xenophobic Americans and Americaboos
Its basically the same shit as Football vs American footballs debates that usually end up in personal insults
Comics deserve to go down the shitter because of the lack of variety and creativity left in the industry. Is it even a surprise that people only think capeshit is the only genre in comics and that it's marketed towards children.
he said ART you fucking retard
do you know what drawings are you goofy faggots
>You really have to be peak weeb to believe that Dragon Ball is the apex of comic books writing.
That's really more entry level weeb thinking.
How come that even though it's in black and white manga art is on the whole of better quality than comics. Dr Stone is a good example, it's released weekly and it still has better art that most monthly comics. Is it just that Jap artists are more dedicated to their work and genuinely enjoy their craft?
>people have superpowers
>they fight
yep its basically dragonball
>Inconsistent and downright shitty art
>Editors meddling with how the story goes demanding drastic changes on the spot
>Frequent retcons so the story have no stakes and impact
>Deaths literally dont matter and no true closure/progress for characters
Also known as arguably most popular manga/anime series in the world.
in most comics, the addition of color inherently makes a comic worse. for color to add anything, the color has to actually make sense, which in 99% of series isn't the case.
that's not one piece
>deaths literally dont matter and no true closure/progress for characters
I will never get why comics get more shit for this than manga ever will, because if I'll say "think of the most popular manga or anime right now" most people would think
>Berserk
>Hunter x Hunter
>One Piece
>Dragon Ball
>Naruto
>Fairy Tail
>Attack on Titan
>Fullmetal Alchemist
>Sailor Moon
And only Sailor Moon and Fullmetal Alchemist are fucking finished. But not the way she wanted it to finish because bitch fucking wanted to kill all the Sailors but wasn't allowed to. Ikuhara was, she wasn't.
I think It’s less the idea of stories ending sooner, and more the feeling of those books getting closer to their conclusion, and having real progress for those characters.
Even if you feel like stories such as One Piece or Attack on Titan have been padding themselves out way too long, whatever major changes to the status-quo occur, are now inseparable parts of those characters and worlds.
But for a character like Batman, even if you introduce major changes to him and his supporting cast, eventually he will be rebooted into a clean-slate. This leaves some people thinking that any progress cape characters make isn’t enduring.
Also you get more chapters in a month than a whole year of capeshit.
Shonen is literally the capeshit of manga good thing there's tons of other genres that doesn't fall into that category and no indies aren't comparable for the west because they're such a tiny part of the western comic market and pretty much just follow the capeshit model of one a month format with pencil/ink/colorist/writer all being segregated roles.
I did say to check out bookscans charts and reports. I’m getting the numbers from their charts and articles written about them online and comparing them to sales on Comichron, Comixology and such. You don’t need to be some secret insider to find those numbers.
Remember his son dying and reviving a few years ago? No lasting effects, might as well never happened
>excluding comic book film adaptations
Good, because I wasn’t talking about movie adaptations.
>so much money could be made off of advertising if they knew what they were doing
I agree. A lot of comics would do better if they marketed them better, or better idea if they were distributed to places outside of just comic book shops.
>the audience for manga is so much larger than that of comic books.
It doesn’t matter how big it is if no one is buying shit. If you look up bookscans charts and articles, and compare those numbers to Comichron sales and the numbers manga do in Japan, you’d see how small the market really is in terms of sales in the US.
>i can't even say i personally know a single person who's read a comic book in their life, but almost every teenager has read manga before.
I could literally say the same thing: most people I know hasn’t read manga all that much. And those I do know who do read tons of manga don’t BUY manga, they read online for free.
>also, contrary to what you think, manga as a whole is not "insanely popular" in Japan. probably less than 1% even sell 10000 copies per volume, which is essentially lunch money for a mangaka. many manga do far better overseas than in Japan.
That doesn’t seem to reflect on sales in the US. Tokyo Ghoul, in Japan and China, sells millions of copies every year when it was published (idk if it’s finished by now). In the US, specifically, it barely sells 200k in the whole year. Naruto sold millions in Japan, but it was selling fairly around the same numbers as Spider-Man or Batman around the late 2000’s and early 2010’s. One Piece doesn’t even reach enough sales to be charted in US sales most of the time, while in Japan and China it’s the biggest manga ever.