Messi Ronaldo last 20 UCL KO away games:

the goals against wolsburg were home games, didn't bother checking the rest

If Messi retired right now, he'd be remembered as an exceptional player who failed in the big ocassions. There is not a single argument in favour of him even being top 5. Not ONE. Every single one of the players in the top 5 (Cristiano, Maradona, Pele, Cryuff and Di Stefano, there is some room for debate for the bottom 2) was successful with at LEAST 2 teams, and never depended on a single core of players (xaviniestaneymarsuarezlol). They were all also clutch.

No, the Wolfsburg goals were in the away game.
missifags really feel the need to lie like this lmao

>Messi is pretty much the undisputed GOAT
In order to EVEN be considered as a GOAT you HAVE to, HAVE to have won a WC, a Euro or Copa, a Supercup, a CL, a ballon d’or, a FIFA world player of the year (ballon d’ors back then), a World Cup ballon d’or, and must have played in 2 or more leagues.

Messi is not a good place if he doesnt win a Copa America or CL soon.
His late prime saw Ronaldo lifting 3 CLs and a Euro while he got one treble and a few league titles.

>sissi

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If Messi retired rn (or 5 years ago) he would be remember as the goat.
Also
>Maradona having success with more than 1 team
What, because he won 2 leagues?
>Di Stefano
No room for debate, he is top 5, but he only had success with Real
>Cruyff
Debatable success, if you call Messi a choker you have to say it about Cruyff as well.
You're clueless as expected from your flag, you're trying to see football on statistics as if it was an American sport, but this sport is too complex and you only will know or learn about it by watching it.

None of the players in the GOAT discussion have that.

Really makes me think imho

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as expected, the retard who tries to fit in knows jack shit as always.
stupid american.

>If Messi retired rn (or 5 years ago) he would be remember as the goat
goat in Catalonia, that is it.
>What, because he won 2 leagues?
and a world cup
>No room for debate, he is top 5, but he only had success with Real
he also won Copa América with Argentina, while being the top scorer
>Debatable success, if you call Messi a choker you have to say it about Cruyff as well.
hm, he's more more a choker than Messi. He at least carried Barca to a league title and won 3 CLs with Ajax.
>You're clueless as expected from your flag, you're trying to see football on statistics as if it was an American sport, but this sport is too complex and you only will know or learn about it by watching it.
hahaha you're funny

He's right OP. So the tally goes to 14 goals, 20 away games. Still more than 3x better than Messi.

Cristiano is pure Gerd Müller and unlike Cristiano,Gerd was actually giga clutch and scored when ever he wanted and when he wanted.

He has 10 times the career achievments Penaldo has.

>hm, he's more more a choker than Messi. He at least carried Barca to a league title and won 3 CLs with Ajax.
meant to say he's no more a choker than...

>goat in Catalonia, that is it.
And everywhere. 95% of pundits, journslists, active players, former players, football fans and other people involved in football consider him the GOAT. I am a real madrid supporter, and all the real madrid supporters I know personally but one or two consider him the GOAT. Seems like the only people that dont are contrarians. The only one that comes close is Maradona.
Messi is more regular than all of the other GOAT candidates and has more trophies, including a lot of leagues won against CR's Real and a UCL won against Cristiano, and has carried both Barça and Argentina in more games than we could count.
He is also much much more complete than Ronaldo, has much better technical ablility and is superior in basically everything but heading.
Messi got to a WC final by winning the semis, and CR got to a EURO final by winning the semis, but he didnt play the final, so you can hardly say CR was better internationally.
"There isn't a worse blind man than the one that doesn't want to see".

Why do all of you forget Beckenbauer and Müller? Müller is the greatest striker ever and Beckenbauer is the greatest defender ever. Both are GOAT material.

Lmao yeah and Rumenigge too and Matthaus and then you'll tell me Kahn was better than Casillas LOL

>Gerd Müller
He was absolute shit tho.

They're both top 10.

Messi : 0 dicks taken up asshole
Penaldo: 65 dicks taken up asshole
/thread

Yes, Messi is top 1 and Cristiano is top 7

No and no. Kahn is an all-time great for sure. Uwe Seeler is the third-biggest footballer of Germany, probably. Or Fritz Walter.

Beckenbauer and Müller are easily on Di Stefano level. Easily. Beckenbauer was voted 3rd in the election of the greatest footballer of the 20th century, right behind Pele and Cruyff, and came in 2nd as the best player in world cup history.

I'm sure all the media is Barcelona say this, but nowhere is it nearly as unanimous as it claims. Many of the boomers cling to Pele, Maradona, Fatnaldo, Zidane. And many also cling to Cristiano.
The fact is that it is impossible to consider Messi the GOAT when someone in his own generation completely overshadows him in both CL and internationally, while putting up nearly identical numbers whilst in La Liga. If you claim Messi is the GOAT, it is for dominating farmers, which to me is beyond ridiculous.

Stop responding to shitty bait threads made a paid Ronaldo shill

There's no way you're a Real Madrid fan. You ain't fooling anyone here, Jordi.

pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=1170

pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=49

I'm the albaposting user. Again, it's not about being a Real Madrid fan or not, it's about having a pair of eyes and a functioning brain and being able to accept what you see instead of being a contrarian or not accepting reality.
In fact, that's another thing about Messi. Ronaldo has not made any club a great club. Real Madrid was already the undisputed best club in football history before Ronaldo came. But Messi took a club that was Steaua Bucuresti tier and made it one of the greatest in the planet, and I am absolutely sure that when Messi retires Barça will be back to being mediocre as it was before him.
All the media in Madrid says this, most pundits say so, most players say so, most boomers say that he is better than Maradona, Pele, Fatnaldo, Zidane. Very very few cling to Cristiano.
>when someone in his own generation completely overshadows him in both CL and internationally
And who is that? Because CR has only one CL more and has never been as regular as Messi in the CL, and that is taking into account that Messi does much more than CR, who is just a goalscorer. And internationally he has a EURO in which he didnt play in the final and a meme nations league which is like winning a copa del rey.
>while putting up nearly identical numbers in La Liga
now you have to be trolling. First, stats don't determine who is better, and secondly, Messi's dominance over CR in La Liga is beyond any doubt.
>muh farmers
why couldn't Ronaldo do it against farmers then? I really wish Ronaldo would have been the player that won us a lot of leagues, but he couldn't compare to Messi and Messi won them for Barça, alongside some tripletes.
Ronaldo is a very good player, top 10 all time, but he doesn't compare to Messi and we saw that in every clásico. And we see it every day they play, actually.

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This collage is so based, thank you bro.

I'm not saying Ronaldo did better than Messi in Liga, Messi holds a definite edge. But there it is -- edge. Ronaldo laps Messi in CL and it is not close. There is no edge.

2009-2018 La Liga:
Ronaldo:
292 games, 311 goals, 96 assists
goal ratio: 1.07, g+a ratio: 1.39
Messi:
309 games, 329 goals, 124 assists
goal ratio: 1.06, g+a ratio: 1.47

Stats aren't everything, but Messi does hold a slight edge in Liga. He won 6, Ronaldo won 2. Granted, Barca conceded less goals every single season. In fact, the season Ronaldo scored 48 and assisted 16 (highest goal involvement and goal involvement ratio in Liga history), Madrid conceded nearly twice as many goals as Barca and still lost. Essentially, I claim their difference in titles does not accurately reflect their difference in performance.

UCL during same period:
Ronaldo:
101 games, 105 goals, 28 assists
goal ratio: 1.04, g+a ratio: 1.32
Messi:
92 games, 83 goals, 20 assists
goal ratio: 0.90, g+a ratio: 1.12

Favorite opponents in CL:
Ronaldo: Juve (10), Bayern (9), Ajax (9), Dortmund (7), Altetico (7)
Messi: Arsenal (9), Celtic (8), AC Milan (8), Leverkusen (7), Ajax (6)

Here Ronaldo shits on Messi, more so if you look at UCL KO stats (pic related). Here it so not close, not the stats nor the trophies.

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why is it still a debate?
CLs -- Ronaldo
International titles - Ronaldo
Ballon Doors - tie
Hat-tricks against 10man Eibar - Messi

for me, it's Ronaldo

>assists don't count
the absolute state of penaldofags

>nearly twice as many goals as Barca and still lost. Essentially, I claim their difference in titles does not accurately reflect their difference in performance.
The only part where I'd say you're wrong is ignoring that Messi hoarding the ball and driving possession helps with conceding less goals.

Maybe, though he is also dispossessed far more than Ronaldo. Regardless, I doubt this would account for such a stark difference in goals allowed.

It's because you are American and like to think with numbers and titles. Missy could have half the titles & goals and still would be the greatest player ever.
Ronaldo is just one of the bunch and it's clear when you watch any random game, while Missy is instantly recognizable from the lot.

pure and utter delusion

I am afraid you are the delusional one! Trophies are won by 11 players on the pitch not by a single player! Looking purely football qualities Messi is head and shoulders above Fraudnaldo and if you cannot see it you know nothing about football!

Barcelona literally won a CL with an 17 year old messi as a sub/occasional starter. Madrid was an eternal choker team that reached the final 16 and would be done Every year until Ronaldo showed up

Fraudnaldo signed for Madrid in 2009 and they didn't win CL until they signed bail in 2013. So if your statement is true it's bale who brought them success.

Fraudnaldo needs twice the number of shots to score as much as Messi! Although he never gets outside the penalty area so he is penaldo!

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>Messi is head and shoulders above Fraudnaldo
this can't be real

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systembaby argument is null and void because Ronaldo already won CL with Manchester while being the best player in the world that season. Same does NOT apply to Messi, who has only everyone with a certain core group of players who also won witthout him in 2005/2006

>who has only everyone
*who was only ever won

Your argument is void. Players make the system, not the system players! Being able to start at age of 17 in a team full of players like xavi, iniesta, eto, ronaldinho speaks volumes about ones qualities! Fraudnaldo won CL win manutd on penalties which he missed and again trophies are won by 11 men in football! I will post some purely football quality based stats so you can see how Fraudnaldo compare to the GOAT

Fraudnaldo added value v offensive position is close to 0

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im chuckling from amusement.

If you want to hold this discussion talk about capability as a footballer. Messi is the most fucking insane footballer to ever have graced the planet. Watch 5 games of his and you will realize it.

Cristiano was great as a young player, but then transformed himself into the absolute statpad machine, that functions entirely on the team being set up to him. His footballing skills are great but not even close to the best of all time.

Ronaldo has dominated the CL because Madrid had an incredible squad for those seasons, whereas Barcelona has been shit, unbalanced and without leadership ever since pep left. The Barcelona CL win was a fluke and not because Barcelona was so incredible. And they win the league because they have Messi. When Barcelona has a decent squad (and that his been a long time ago) Messi will assrape you, any team, anywhere, anywhen.

And to see that you must only watch a few games.

Ronaldo is just a nasty statpadder. Perfect fit for the real squad back then, but Juve has gotten worse with him. He's clearly harming the team and for the last few months has covered it up by actually scoring the chances they set up for him.

Lewandowski is a better footballer than Ronaldo, not a better statpadder but a better footballer.

It all takes a little knowledge of the game, something which cumericans raised on trash-tier stat-driven sports just dont have.

Fraudnaldo value added when shooting is almost 10 times lower than the GOAT

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Hes no sturridge but hes alright

>Ronaldo has dominated the CL because Madrid had an incredible squad for those seasons, whereas Barcelona has been shit, unbalanced and without leadership ever since pep left. The Barcelona CL win was a fluke and not because Barcelona was so incredible. And they win the league because they have Messi. When Barcelona has a decent squad (and that his been a long time ago) Messi will assrape you, any team, anywhere, anywhen.
is a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suarez, Busquets, Pique, "decent".
messoyfags are legit delusional and talk about their idol as if he was a god, yet I only see him perform against bottom table shitters. "goat" my fucking sides it's hilarious

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AFAIK Messi has scored the most goals in history in el clasico.

Why do you expose so shamelesly the fact that you have started following the sport one week ago, mutt?

Germany understand football hence 4 WC!

Actually good analysis user

But Fraudnaldo failed every time against Messi in CL kek. Someone post webm of busquets assist to Messi

thank you

it is apparent that only arabs, turks and those infected with migrant-thoughts root for CR7 in germany, while all upstanding germans can clearly and easily see that Messi is the ideal footballer, he represents the joy of the sport, the magic like no player ever has. The way carries the ball with his feet manifests the dream of treating the ball as an extension of your body. Some players have utilized more magic in their tricks, but Messi does not need tricks, he carries the ball like he carries his nuts.

Stupid brazilian falling for ameridumb stats analysis exposes why his folk have lost 7-1 to us. Stop thinking, you are not made to do it. Start playing with your balls and do magic.

TSUUUUU

Fraudnaldo has attempted three times more shots outside the penalty area and has scored less goals then Messi! It's hard for Fraudnaldo when is not set up on a silver plate hence tapnaldo

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Pissi looks like he pissed his bed

how would you know, subhuman?
Messi looks like a warrior.

You welcome bro!

5 world cups, kraut

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Fraudnaldo only 5% shooting chances created by himself. The GOAT 23% creating his own chances!

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oh no dont waste your time playing their game as if they were actually on a philosophical and pure pursuit of objectivity. Oh no no. Because you can also post his key pass stats, his chances created and his assists. And suddenly cristiano will look like the egotistical and untalented yuppie that he is!

A footballer must not wish to build an empire but must play football like a craftsmen, with love, care and attention towards his work. He will love every detail of his craft and refine it further and further but cristiano rolando, as i call him to slander him, has appropriated the craft to fuel his egotistical pursuit of power and fame! It can not be liked from the perspective of a football lover, and of course one can acknowledge what he has achieved but moreso he should be thankful for Real Madrid allowing him to shine the way he did.

Thank You Modric
Thank You Kroos
Thank Benzema
Thank You Balze
Thank You Isco
Thank You Ramos
Thank You Keylor
Thank You to the Coahces and all the others, is all that he must be allowed to say and nothing else, because without them he would be playing in the MLS right now, as he has lost all care and love for his craft.

I bet you will give every single one of them to delete that brutal ass whooping 7:1 in front of your people!

this is the reason i told you to stop thinking. When brazilians didnt care about thinking but only about their balls they were the best. But since you little apes now want to think you ruin everything.

t. al-arabi von diesen

Ronaldo is better than Messi. End of Story.

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Yes, he's also been playing in Barca his entire career. Ronaldo has the most goals against Barca. During their rivalry they each scored 19 against the other team.

lol didn't read

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Based and redpilled!

you missed the point you stupid ignorant mutt. Did all the hamburgers delete your brain cells, asscow?

The point is that Messi does not only score against big teams but is actually the record scorer against the biggest team in football history.

>this assblasted pissifag from germany

Fraudnaldo scores but has been most of the time on the loosing side including CL!

>responding to ronaldo-messi bait threads
fucking newfags

Does not in any way forgive him being invisible is CL.
He's very good in Spain, specially in Camp Nou.

3 in a row
first to win 5 CL titles
have sex pissifags

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very nice dubs and trips, but they also represent the intelligence of the serbian population, 44 bottom, 77 average, 111 record high IQ for the most primitive european species.

Trying to denounce me by claiming that im not ethnically german, is a compliment to my people.

You forgot to thank papa Perez! He is the one who created Fraudnaldo and when fraudnaldo asked to be paid same as Messi Perez sold him to juve because he knows Fraudnaldo is not worth anywhere near what Messi is!

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>very nice dubs and trips, but they also represent the intelligence of the serbian population, 44 bottom, 77 average, 111 record high IQ for the most primitive european species.
>Trying to denounce me by claiming that im not ethnically german, is a compliment to my people.

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Haha, one can always count on the brits, some of them atleast understanding such affairs.

Imagine comparing a Farcelona's system babby who got shilled into oblivious because of a couple of lucky blooters with a Man who dominated and still dominates English, Spanish, Italian league, won 2 major international trophies while Pissi pissed the bed for his own country is idiotic.

literally this
/thread
there is no comeback for this fact

One little sentence and you mediocre football entities go absolutely seething lmao. Cope harder ahmed and mehmet

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Based Brazilbro

This is exactly the reason why national socialism was right. You can see the vermin uniting together. i have no hard feelings against the serbian rat but it is clear that its mischievous drive towards anything great will sabotage the world. We can be glad that Nato taught them a lesson, but one can see how little they have learned to better themselves. They like shiny things the most, and envy the succesful, so they root with the fraud trophy thief ronaldo.

Can it be helped or must one not consider absolute judgements?

It's a well known fact Perez needed to counter growing Barca both on and off the pitch so he created for the niggers and the serbs Fraudnaldo as response to Messi! But Fraudnaldo being dump nigger himself believed his own hype and demanded he gets paid same as what Messi gets paid. Perez response was to sell him to the highest bidder! Tells you volumes about how dependent were Madrid from Fraudnaldo!

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Don't worry bro! Servs have been rats throughout their history! They think they are too clever for their own good! They have lost what no country has ever lost without a war!

Didnt Messi score against Liverpool?

When was that Milan game?

These are away games

Now post the same stats for away knock out games

So, as you can see. Ronaldo has 29 more goals in 144 (ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR) games and has 71 (SEVENTY ONE) fewer assists despite have 144 (ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY FOUR) more games to provide them in. He's won fewer tournaments than Messi despite playing for longer. Messi is the better player and only gayfags for their fuckboy would deny it. In total, Messi has contributed 42 more goals despite playing 144 fewer games.

People's obsession with
>t-t-those goals don't count!
Are fucking pathetic.

Now, when Messi has played 999 gales in his entire career, Leo Messi will have generated 1154 goals, 208 more than Cristiano Ronaldo has generated in that same number of games in his entire career. That's based on his current rate and all that jazz. They're both very good players and Ronaldo would be the GOAT had Messi not been born. But Messi is outright the better footballer.

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How many of this goals came against Eibar or Leganes? No one gives a shit about those ones

like half of ronaldo goals are penalties anyway

So based & redpilled.

No they aren't

>statpadding against leganes, huelva and ponferradina through all his career

its 30% at least

Pissifags are ignoring this but reality is they noticed this post, acknowledged it & they're seething so hard about it.

>dude those goals don't count, lmao
Holy mother of GRIM. I mean 10 of Penaldo's goals come against Andorra. GUESS HE IS THE GOAT.

Post stats for just CL knock out games

it’s a lot of cope in this thread

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>stats with zero context
typical messifags. using the fact ronaldo played as a wide midfield for his first several years at manchester to make messi appear better. here are the stats narrowed down with a bit more context

>and yet scoring a hat trick against Wolfsburg is an achievement
I would agree with you if it wasn't for your blatant faggotry.

again, context fucking matters. that was a CL KO game where they were down 2-0 in the first leg, he HAD to score 3 to advance. entirely different situation fucking idiot

>stats aren’t everything
>except when they fit my narrative
Lmao what a cuck

I still dont understand how sitting on the bench means you won a Euro title

He dragged them to the final. Top scorer and assister for Portugal. and he played 30 mins in the final.
Not at alll like Messi literally not stepping on the field in the quarters, semis or finals of 2006 CL

Same way sitting on the bench got Messi a CL

>He dragged them to the final
they finished third in their group, TSUUU only showing up against hungary, disappeared in Ro16, did nothing in QF's, scored against wales, then sat on the sidelines while portugal beat france

Dude, without him, they don't go to the final period. Like I said, top scorer and assister (67% goal involvement), and each one of their games was close. Build whatever false narrative you want but those are the facts.

>false narrative
>only can score against the POWERHOUSE of hungary, and cant even win that match
>cant even score AGAIN until they face Gareth bale and 10 shitters

>Pissnaldo being so smug about disappearing in yet another final

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Why do Pissnaldo simps deny reality?
/debate

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>he disappeared except when he didn't
you're an idiot

>then sat on the sidelines while portugal beat france
He was BRUTALLY and VICIOUSLY assaulted by this moth, b-but then he totally managed from the sidelines! He's /strongmind/!

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thats not what I said at all, you illiterate retard

>only contributes in one game in groups
>66% of the goals he scored was just in the one game
>does almost nothing for the majority of knockouts
>does LITERALLY nothing in the final

even without ronaldo's goal in semis(again, against WALES), Portugal still wouldve gone through

The cope by messifags in this thread is too damn high
They want to prove greatness through graphics because they cant prove it through trophies
Laughable man

>Cristiano is pure Gerd Müller
>When debating all time bests

You must be over 18 to post here

Zidane, Fatnaldo, Iniesta, Xavi

Reality is not what whoscored pissifags imagine. Look at their Twitters, they're doing nothing but sucking Pissi's limp no-international-titles dick.

Wow, didn't know mesi was this bad. I guess Ronaldo is the GOAT.