GOAT of GOATs

Technically one was WHA but that team was still filled with players who would later go on to play in the NHL

I've watched little hockey but I don't think an athlete was that much better then everyone else then Gretzky was. Seen something mental like he could of never scored a goal and would still be the highest scorer of all time

Brady plays in arguably the consistantly weakest division in the NFL. Brady is a system babby who relies heavily on his defence and special teams making clutch saves. Hes not even the best QB of his generation, just the one who lucked out into a team that cares to build winners

yeah, you do have a very valid point

Messi

Lionel Andre Messi Cuccittini

Him and his brother lead the NHL in terms of sibling combined points. His brother has 4 total points.

>No Don Bradman
>No consideration of any "proper" football player
wew lad

From Wikipedia:
>Statistician Charles Davis analysed the statistics for several prominent sportsmen by comparing the number of standard deviations that they stand above the mean for their sport. The statistics show that "no other athlete dominates an international sport to the extent that Bradman does cricket". In order to post a similarly dominant career statistic as Bradman, a baseball batter would need a career batting average of .392, while a basketball player would need to score an average of 43.0 points per game. The respective records are .366 and 30.1

system baby choker can't be the GOAT, I'm sorry. Especially when there's someone in his generation who is much more accomplished, more clutch, who also rivals him statistically. All the while playing for different teams.

gretzky didnt need to be clutch. the soilers were routinely beating teams like 9-1 in the 80s.

We'll have to wait until Brady retires. I mean it's already difficult to compare athletes of diffferent eras, but then you have them competing in entirely different sports, and above all, one of them is still playing?

even if gretzky never scored a single goal in his nhl career, he would still be the nhl all time point leader with his assists alone.

Lmao, yeah he's the GOAT. No other athlete can have as many ridiculous stats as that.

not even just a kurri babby but a fucking semenko babby too. if you even looked at gretzky the wrong way he would end up fighting you.

Are you implying the Patriots don't routinely blow teams out?

Also all I said was Brady isnt even the NFL Goat.

Babe Ruth

not as much as the 80s oilers. last year, for example, the patriots only won like 5 games by more than 2 touchdowns. thats hardly blowing teams out.

Product of era and circumstance. There was a brother line back in the 40's for the Blackhawks made up of Doug, Max and Reg Bentley with Max and Doug being extremely skilled superstars but the team they were on wasn't very good. If max or Doug had played for the redwings, leafs or habs, they would probably be remembered as the greatest particular forwards of that era instead of Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard and Charlie Conacher. My point is, If Gretzky hadn't joined a team of budding superstars he would probably have finished far behind Peter Stastny in scoring in the 80's and not remembered for doing anything notable

>41 year old Brady is indicative of his entire career

even in his prime, most of bradys owl wins were close games. gretzkys oilers were winning stan lee rounds 4-1 every year.

Conacher was retired by then but the point still stands. You put the supporting cast that Gretzky had with Lemieux, Stastny or Hawerchuk and you would be talking about them being the greatest instead of him

Jordan is easly goat cause no other mentioned athlete popularized his sport the way Jordan did

>patriots, season before brady
>5-11
>same patrriots, next season with brady
>first ever patriot Superbowl victory
>brady injured
>pats miss the playoffs
>belichick without brady
>losing record, something like 51-68
>with brady
>207-60

Most of Bradys owls were because either the D step up or Vinateri though.

>brady injured
>pats miss the playoffs
With an 11-5 record under Cassel*

It's Messi and it's not even close.

mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/supercomputer-determines-who-better-between-18969139

>BETTER WINNING % AGAINST THE REST OF THE NFL THAN THE AFCE

>AFCE HAS THE BEST WINNING % OF ANY DIVISION SINCE THE 2002 REALIGNMENT

I dont know why we keep having to repeats this

>LITERALLY TWICE as good as Penaldo, who enjoys grabbing the penises of other men on camera
>mfw

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Sir Donald Bradman

if your team went 10-6 with your starter and lost five more games the next year (5-11) with the backup would you say your starter is a system baby

Jordan. Hockeys gay and Tom lost to eli twice(2) and gave the eagles their only chip. Nothing Gretzky or Brady did was as iconic as Jordan’s dunk to layup again the lakers. Or his shot over Ehlo. Or the shot against the Jazz. Or 63 against Birds Celtics

If my teams going 11-5 with a backup who goes 4-11 the following season, yes, I think anyone can slot into that QB position.

>jordan getting bounced in the playoffs 7 times (including 3 first round exits) is worse than losing the championship game by one score twice

that "study" is only La Liga from 2013 onwards, and it says clearly before 2015 they were almost identical, but then "Messi separated himself from his great rival". Literally at the same time Zidane starts playing Ronaldo much less in Liga so he can be incredible in the UCL, which he was. So unless this was extended to analyse UCL, and NT, and from a wider time frame (since 2007/2008 for example, since they've both been considered the two best in the world), then all this tells you is Messi is better against Leganés from 2015 onward, and is thus near meaningless. Also pic related

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It's during the time period they were both regularly playing against the same competition, i.e. the most relevant time period possible for comparison, and Messi was literally twice as good and infinitely less homosexual during that period.

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>losing to a literal autist and blowing a perfect season is better than going 6-0 in as many full seasons(only losing to Shaw’s magic after coming back mid season, whom they swept the following year)

Except for his first Superbowl against the Rams, arguably the greatest upset in SB history. Or his 4th ring, the 2nd greatest SB comeback in history. Or the 5th, the greatest comeback in SB history. Or every other playoff and AFC championship game.

Wayne's stats are like playing a videogame career-mode on easy difficulty. He's, by far, the clearest GOAT in major North American sports. He's the GGOAT. No disrespect to Tom or Jordon, but Gretzky was just that good.

>it only counts a loss if you win enough playoff games to get the end

this meme has to end. If Joe montana had lost the superbowl in 1987 instead of losing in the divisional round to and 8-7 vikings team at home would his legacy be lessened?

Not making it to the finals is worse than losing it in, why this is held against lebron and brady is beyond me, if jordan had been good enough to make it to more finals he would have lost more but he wasnt

>Literally at the same time Zidane starts playing Ronaldo much less in Liga
This quote is completely meaningless to the study and demonstrates a lack of ability to logically analyze observations and data which is typical of PK7 fans.
The study is not quantifying total statistics but rather per game statistics. Thus, playing less often in La Liga has no bearing on the data or interpretation of the data.
Messi = GOAT
Penaldo = a slightly more athletic Inzaghi

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Not even close. Jordan said fuck it, we’re not losing this game. James white did the heavy lifting against ATL and Vinny won it for them in 01.

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>he doesnt remember jordan getting swept by the celtics in the first round two years in a row

once jordan had HoF talent around him he started winning

Because morons just believe what they want to believe, instead of checking stats

I think final appearances is a great time breaker, i.e. 6-3 > 6-0, but 6-0 > 3-6 imo

>consistently weakest division
>not the AFC south

*whoops mean to say tie-breaker

In NBA, MLB, and NHL, you play up to 7 games and win 4 of them to get titles, so even if you lose 1 or 2 games due to some miracle plays from your opponents, if your team is better than the other, most likely you will gonna win the series.

In NFL, if you lose one owl game, boom, you fucking lose to Eli and there is no second chance.

Quick note. Hockey doesn't have a finals MVP. They give out a playoff MVP trophy

this

if the nfl had even 3 game series in the playoffs brady would have 10 rings

Non-Pats AFC East teams are .500 overall when you take out their games against the Pats over the last decade or something

the patriots havent lost 3 games in a row since 2002 just for reference

Because Jordan only played 6 seasons and never lost playoff series right?

The Patriots would have lost to Kurt Warner’s rams if it was a 3 game series

The Patriots dynasty is entirely made up of fluke plays, one way or the other. How many titles have they won OR lost due to a single baloney ass random play in the CCG or Owl?

>have to play 10 extra playoff games
>everyone ded
>go 8-8 the next season and miss the playoffs

sure, but they would have beaten the 2007 giants, 2010 jets, 2011 giants, 2012 ravens, 2015 broncos and 2017 eagles. Might have lost to the 14 Hawks and maybe last years rams but those would be toss ups

So you are saying if Bulls played better so Jordan made a couple more finals but didn't win those series instead of losing in earlier stages, that makes his career worse?

People aren't talking about stats. Every hockey player thinks Gretzky is the best. Lemieux, Stastny, and Hawerchuk all said he's the best. You're talking about the oilers being goats and stacked, but really if they hadn't been practicing with Gretzky day in day out, learning to see the game the way he did, playing off of him, using the team strats that he pioneered, they'd be average. The oilers were not great before him. They were not budding superstars in their early careers by any chance. When they played to his level, they became greats.

Because the toughness of a 1 game of NBA is same as a 1 game of NFL LOL

I think that was the point

you make a good point. I own a book about the 1987 Canada Cup and the author glowingly talks about the impact Gretzky had on a young Lemieux.

Literally no one else could've done what he did to Atlanta.

cr7

LITERALLY half as good as Messi:
HALF.

Can't believe we still have a moron who says like this in 2019

Manning

This is such a retarded brainlet take and it's obvious you don't know jack shit about football. His division is "weak" because he stomps it out every year. If you take away games against the Patriots, they're average teams.

The whole reason Brady has an amazing defense is his team gives him virtually nothing to work with on offense every year. He's had like 2 star players on his team in 2 decades. The rest are literal who's and roleplayers. The offense is a hollow shell and Brady makes them a top 10 offense every single year no matter WHO is playing for them.

That's the whole reason the Patriots always have a top defense. Because they can afford to spend spend spend there when the offensive side of the ball is taken care of with Brady there by himself.

Another UCL, ballon d'Or, and WC would probably do it

>Messi
0 international trophies

Vinatieri was 1 for 3 against Carolina you retard

Team sport. 11 per side.
Cy Young voters no longer give the Cy Young award to the pitcher with the most wins for a very good reason.

manningfags still exist? what a rare and truly mentally ill specimen

messi hardly an athlete

this is Marino vs Montana all over again. Legacy will care more about your performance in big moments and your achievements rather than dribbles per game or volume passing. keep coping.

>people are dumb
I know. Marino was better. So was Steve Young.

this

Only an idiot would argue that a final your team was good enough to win without you on the pitch bolsters your legacy in any way.

Phil Simms > Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers because of Super Bowl XXV

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>Ronaldo
>Team-player
Lol

Anyway, the greatest athlete of all time is Michael Jordan, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

Ronaldo could win another 10 CL's and he still wouldn't be the GOAT. He's just not at that level as an individual and never will be.

So by your point Curry > Lebron because hes more flashy and skilled

Terrible opinion nephew

ok buddy

Youre mistaking the debate. whos your favorite player vs whos objectively the best

Why are you linking to a post with embarassingly faulty logic which was exposed by ?

It's Don Bradman. His batting average was 99, the next closest best batting average is something like 60. Superstar batsmen average around 50, he was a freak.

The likeliest athlete to have actually been an alien or simulation admin in disguise.

because of pic related. and the logic was not exposed, because he never addressed the UCL and NT argument. No one has ever argued Ronaldo was better in La Liga from 2015-2018.

sorry I meant to say 2016 to 2018, because Ronaldo was clearly superior in La Liga 2015/2016.

In terms of how obvious it is that a guy is the GOAT at their sport:
1. Gretzky
2. Kareem
3. Bonds

>pic related
You didn't post a picture.
>and the logic was not exposed
Yes, it was. Only a fucking idiot would say BUT HE PLAYED LESS IN LA LIGA THAN MESSI DID in response to per-game statistics.
>he never addressed the UCL and NT argument
did
The researchers correctly chose the La Liga games while both Ronaldo and Messi were in La Liga simultaneously and only those games because those are by far the most relevant games to compare the two with. It's directly comparing two players' performance over an identical timespan against identical competition. UCL/NT does not = identical competition, thus, UCL/NT data is less relevant for comparison.

If we're ignoring the cheating, peak Bonds was likely the greatest American athlete relative to his competition. Most people don't realize the HGH improved his eyesight dramatically. A great deal of the home runs he hit in his 73 HR season were well out of the strike zone. Pitchers were refusing to throw him strikes because his hitting eye had become literally inhuman, and he was still crushing their shit anyways. He literally broke baseball.

>Brady

lol yeah Brady installs the TE heavy scheme that works then the run heavy scheme that works then the shallow cross route/slant spam scheme that works

Get real

not a very athletic feat

Brady. That said,
>the storyline is what seals it for me! :)
Woman detected

Seething saintsfag detected

matt cassell

the pic in the post I linkedThere is no reason to leave them out. La Liga is objectively not the highest level of competition, UCL is. And you know damn well Ronaldo stomps Messi in UCL and for his NT, especially during this period. In the fucking paper it stated they were nearly identical before 2015/2016 in Liga, then Messi began to eclipse him in Liga, the exact same time Ronaldo had the greatest run in CL history. I would much prefer Someone who proved he could put up the numbers like Messi for over half a decade in Liga, while vastly outperforming him in CL during the same period.
Instead of responding to me, refute the picture in the post.

>refute the picture in the post.
A great deal of its data is objectively less relevant for comparison than data comparing performance against identical competition over an identical timespan. That's why university professors who are much smarter than you chose not to use it.

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There are people in NBA with 11 Rings. Michael Jordan doesn't have the all-time record of his sport. He's not even in the top 10.

There are people in the NHL with 11 Cups. Wayne Gretsky doesn't have the all-time record of his sport either.

Only 1 quarterback has 4 rings.
No quarterback has 5 rings.
No other player besides Brady has 6.

In a sport where nearly half the teams in 100 years do not even have 1 Championship, Brady has won 6. He is the GOAT.

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The WC argument is kinda stupid. If you're born in Latvia and you're a fantastic player who won multiple ballon d'ors, multiple CLs, multiple trebles, multiple EPLs, multiple La Ligas you can't be the GOAT because your country can't produce other good players to fight for a international tournament? It's still a teamsport

That being said, CR7 is not the GOAT

is it that faggy to genuinely find inspiration in his story though?
>t.grown ass fag, who, when feeling discouraged, remembers Brady and asks himself "what's your fucking excuse nigger"

In a league where teams get 1st round picks and new teams are on top every year, it literally makes no difference. He also has the same 80% win pct against non-AFC teams.

Brady is far and beyond the NFL GOAT, statistically and achievement wise

Still only 1 of 3 players to ever have 50 TD's, only one of a handful to pass 5,000 yards, Rodgers cant say either of those things

Is there anything easier in the world of sports than poaching for stacked soccer teams?

Converting penalty kicks.

Gretzky>Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brady

The "less than" symbol goes the other way.

Jordan transcended sports. He's a billionaire athlete recognized all over the world. No one in Italy knows who Gretzky is.

Bradman and it’s not close

matt cassell what

matt cassel is gay

the NBA is worked

>muh rangs
fuck off retard

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>hard work
>dedication
System quarterback with an organization accused of systemic cheating multiple times

You can't deny him his multiple game winning drives. Guy is clutch. I hate the pats.

>there are people who seriously believe if the patriots were dropped into any other division they wouldn't fucking shit on it it year in year out like they do the AFCE

Brady and his coaching staff would murder any fucking division. I cannot believe in his 20th season people still argue otherwise

>tiger woods

Jack had 18 major wins and 19 runner up finishes at majors. Tiger is good, and had a run like no other, but Jack is GOAT. Jack also had to compete against a bunch of the all-time greats.

It's very easy to ignore the cheating when over 50% of his competition, including pitchers, was all doing the same shit.
It's different than the Brady cheating where it's just him/his team doing it

Makes me wonder what a juiced up Tony Gwynn would have been capable of.

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This. The Bulls were a 55-win team and a legit contender WITHOUT Jordan

Bullshit. Kurri wasn’t nearly as effective after Gretzky left.

>Jordan was a Pippen babby

Fun fact: no nhl team issues #99. The number is practically retired because Gretzky is über goat. It’s not even a question.

Jordan’s teams got punked by the Celtics and Pistons early in his career. It wasn’t until Phil Jackson, Scottie and Horace Grant showed up that they got good.

They only argue that collectively speaking, Miami/Buffalo/Jests are the worst teams in the past 15-20 years. There is no denying this. That’s 6 easy mode wins per year.

Miami retired #23 because they were trying to make this happen in the NBA but nobody else did it kek

Do you even know what spygate/deflategate actually is

he obviously does not. not worth arguing with them

> Jets did exactly same shit a year before Pats did for spygate
> Broncos caught for filming other team practice, not like Pats film at wrong location
> There are many other cheating attempts from many different organizations in NFL history
> Deflategate is proven by multiple scientists it was Goodell's shit show
Yeah right just him/his team doing it

The real football argument is a difficult argument since its divided into Pre-Bosman and Bosman era players. Pre-Bosman Pelé and DiStefano stands out while in the Bosman era you have R9, Cruijff, Messi, Maradona, and Platini.

>AFCN
they'd lose half of their regular season games against Pittsburgh and Baltimore, and that's optimistic considering NE sucks the first four games of every season

>AFCS
they would get torn apart by Mike Vrabel and his gang of butthurt ex-Pats just like they were last year, as well as Big Dick Nick. Houston is also significantly better than their division rivals are now too

>AFCW
KC would give them a run for their money every year, and Flacco is like Eli in that he's like Brady's unlikely kryptonite. They would also drop a significant number of games to the Chargers even if it isn't the majority of them.

I don't know how you can even argue something like this.

yeh you're definitely right he'd struggle against them all!!!

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>5-3, 8-4, 4-1, etc.
>in any way comparable to fucking 28-3 and 26-7
retard

Yeah it is Pats' fault that they didn't play with other divisions like over 20 games

keep going, you're doing really well lmao

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Only reason Gretzky didn't have more Conn Smythes is cause he left the Oilers and played on shit teams. Basketball is the easiest to will a team to the Finals if you're the GOAT, football, if a QB is similar although you have a bit more of a tough time if your team is shit around you. Hockey, if your team is shit, you won't even make the playoffs (see McDavid in Edmonton today)

Absolute brainlet opinion
>Consistently beats 3 other teams every single year
>Fanbases (ESPECIALLY Jets) panic at a 6-10 season and demand firings
>Throw every potential success out the window at the first sign of trouble (Rex Ryan)
>Repeat ad nauseum

It's not Brady's fault he lives rent free on the back page of the New York Post. You want to talk about a free division, look at 75% of Rapistberger's career.

ITT: A single leaf desperately trying to defend the one citizen of his country that ever accomplished anything athletically.

steve nash was good, for a white guy

Thought he was South African for some reason

>for some reason
Maybe because he was born in South Africa? He's Canadian tho

Nobody even knows who the left and right one is and the ngubu is only famous because he ahs a clothing line

Tony Gwynn was 0-1 against diabetes

PEDs very obviously don't benefit pitchers as much as they do hitters.

Because most Americans do not now who Pele is, that does not mean he is not a GOAT. The same logic can be applied here.