Messi 2012 - Lost to a weak aging Chelsea

>Ronaldo 2008
Scores the first goal of the match that even allowed man united to go to penalties in the first place
>Ronaldo 2014
Even though he is injured he created tons of chances to Bale and Bale managed to miss them all
>Ronaldo in 2015
Scored in both legs against Juve, not his fault that the defense choked
>Ronaldo in 2016
Scores the last penalty with unfathomable amount of time pressure on his shoulders
>Ronaldo in 2019
Scored in both legs, not his fault the defense choked

2008: Missed the penalty even though Van der Saar saved the previous one. It was over after that.
2014: Ah, the classic "chances" argument. That's the same logic Messi fans make, but somehow it never applies to him
2015: So it's not Ronaldo's fault when his defence chokes but when Barca's defence falls against Liverpool it's suddenly Messi's fault for not "coming through"?
2016: Where was he in the entire 90 minutes and extra time?
2019: So when he loses its his team's fault but when he wins he was the determining factor. Why isn't this applied to Messi?

Ignoring the fact that you completely skip 2009 - 2013, if you think the "defence choked" argument and the "created chances" argument are valid for him then they should be for Messi, because he does more than Ronaldo in a game, basically playing three positions at any given time. If you disagree, then Ronaldo still isn't as clutch and still isn't the GOAT because he has less direct contributions in overall finals than Messi has (19 goals 2 assists vs Messi's 29 goals and 14).

For a guy that only has one job (be a poacher) he can't even outscore Messi with 2 years on him. Meanwhile Messi is already 18 goals away from surpassing his total tally in all competitions and has been the assist leader in Europe since 2012. There's no debate on who's the GOAT.

>2015: So it's not Ronaldo's fault when his defence chokes but when Barca's defence falls against Liverpool it's suddenly Messi's fault for not "coming through"?
Ronaldo scored in BOTH legs, Messi disappears when he steps out of Camp Nou
>Ignoring the fact that you completely skip 2009 - 2013, if you think the "defence choked" argument and the "created chances" argument are valid for him then they should be for Messi
So you are admitting that Ronaldo did something, thanks for conceding

Btw
>Ronaldo 2012 - in the dying moments of the game watching his rival team walk right past his entire
This was in 2011, and his rival did it against 10 men

>If you disagree, then Ronaldo still isn't as clutch and still isn't the GOAT because he has less direct contributions in overall finals than Messi has (19 goals 2 assists vs Messi's 29 goals and 14).
>Counting Copa del Gay finals
Now do it for Champions League finals

>For a guy that only has one job (be a poacher)
Thanks for proving that you don’t watch football and don’t know shit about what you are talking about, if you want to talk about this don’t just watch highlights and go watch the entire games.
Thanks for conceding

2015: he scored one goal and one pen in both legs. That's two goals. Messi scored two goals in one leg. Same amount of goals yet one counts more because it's in two legs even though they lost? That makes no sense.

>So you are admitting that Ronaldo did something, thanks for conceding
Of course he did. So does Messi and he creates more chances per game. Messi's defence choking on him isn't his fault just like it isn't Ronaldo's. Messi simply does more but for some reason it's his fault even if he creates chances and his defence chokes, not Ronaldo's. Might be mental illness.

>This was in 2011, and his rival did it against 10 men
So? What does this have to do with his ability to come through? I thought he was a big game player? Oh, he needs his team. Yeah, I almost forgot it's like your team contributes to your success but somehow that never applies to Ronaldo and always to Messi. Interesting.

>Now do it for Champions League finals
I like how you ignore every other final and only focus on five match instances within both their careers because "muh weight". Yeah, let's ignore all their other goalscoring contributions because they don't matter. Oh wait, no - it's because you know as well as anyone else that Ronaldo hasn't scored in 40% of his CL finals in 90 mins + OT. You need to reach finals to score in them. His team has equally contributed to his finals success which has allowed him to score in three finals consecutively. You also know that Ronaldo's overall final record is subpar to Messi's. He scores less and it's not a debate. Despite beint 2 years older, he's reached less finals, won less finals, and scored less goals.

Messi is individually the better player.

Real talk. He's the best player this generation, but he's by no means "the GOAT". The GOAT isn't allowed to choke under the pressure of big matches like Messi does.

>Messi 2014 - Bullied by Atletico
>Messi 2016 - Bullied by Atletico
this cant be, Messsoy fans said Atletico was always a shit team

Hirviendo

>2015: he scored one goal and one pen in both legs. That's two goals. Messi scored two goals in one leg. Same amount of goals yet one counts more because it's in two legs even though they lost? That makes no sense.
Yes, away goals count more, retard.
>So? What does this have to do with his ability to come through? I thought he was a big game player? Oh, he needs his team. Yeah, I almost forgot it's like your team contributes to your success but somehow that never applies to Ronaldo and always to Messi. Interesting.
Of course your team contributes do your success, when did I say otherwise?
And Messi has always had a better team than Ronaldo, you just simply can’t deny that.
>Oh wait, no - it's because you know as well as anyone else that Ronaldo hasn't scored in 40% of his CL finals in 90 mins + OT.
At least Ronaldo goals were important, he scored the opening goal in 2 CL finals, all of Messi’s goals in CL finals are irrelevant and his team would have still won without them

>You need to reach finals to score in them.
And that’s what Ronaldo does, he helps his team get to the finals, unlike messi who disappears in the away legs of the CL
>You also know that Ronaldo's overall final record is subpar to Messi's. He scores less and it's not a debate. Despite beint 2 years older, he's reached less finals, won less finals, and scored less goals.
Ronaldo scored less goals because he didn’t have the best players in the world in his team to feed him goals unlike Messi, who had 2 of the best midfielders in history who were Ballon D’or contenders.

2004 Euro final vs Greece at home: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose.

2006 World cup semifinal vs France: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose.

2008 Euro knockout round vs Germany: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose.

2010 World cup knockout round vs Spain: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose.

2012 Euro semifinal vs Spain: 120 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose.

2014 World cup group stage vs Germany: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal out in the group stage

2016 Euro final vs France: 20 minutes, subbed out from "injury". Zero goals and assists. Portugal win after 100 minutes against France in their home stadium with an African scoring the winning goal deep into extra time.

2018 World cup knockout round vs Uruguay: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal lose

2019 Uefa Nations League final vs Netherlands: 90 minutes. Zero goals and assists. Portugal win with Bernardo Silva and Guedes scoring the winning sole goal while Ronaldo is a passenger throughout the game.

Yup, the player who has won two trebles is the GOAT

>away goals count more
Despite losing lmao? Cope harder

>Messi being on a better team
Ronaldo played for the best team in England, one of the best Madrid sides ever, and a 7 streak winning Juve. If you're really gonna make this argument you'll continue looking silly

>Ronaldo helps his team get to the finals
Despite making 5 less finals than Messi in his career? Either you're intentionally obfuscating or you can't do math

>Ronaldo scored less goals because he didn't have the best players in world
Name me one European 11 that's won 3 CLs in a row. That's not a bad team. Again I'll reiterate: one of the best United teams ever, the most dominant Madrid European side since the 50s, and a SEVEN consecutive title winning Juve. But they're "bad teams" lmao. Christ.

>>Ronaldo 2008 - misses a crucial penalty; does nothing in the final minutes.
Stopped reading here. More than 10 years later it’s still one of the best headers of this century

That's nice until he CHOKED minutes later when it then mattered most

>its the defenses fault when ronaldo loses
>despite messi helping to set up opportunities and potential assists while he has 3-5 defenders on him at all times
>overlook messi’s performance when messi misses a penalty but ignore it when ronaldo misses.

twain was right all along

I think net worth should determine the goat, so who is richer?

Really? You care about his header and not his LITERAL ability to contribute to a pen that would have most likely won them that game? That's the definition of a big game moment.

The argument that he's more clutch is unsubstantiated.

followers on social media is a better metric desu

And scoring the first goal in the champions league final isn't the definition of a big game moment? Fucking retard

>subbed out from "injury".
Are you telling me that the injury was fake?

ronaldo pwns, messi sucks

He unironically won a triplete without fraudiola, the issue were an aging Iniesta and an aging Xavi being unable to over-clutch Messi's choking skills

>prime suarez
>prime neymar
>refball

wow that was all him then

>h-he's not finished, he won a CL since 2011
lmao

Is this another episode of Penaldo and Messoy fags fighting again?

Yes, he played for one of the best Madrid sides ever from 2012 until 2018, winning 4/7 of the CLs in that period and reaching the semi-finals at least in every single year. The first few years his teammates were complete randoms too but he elevated them. Meanwhile the midget has always had refball and during the weakest years of uefalona he still had Ronaldinho but he still kept getting exposed by teams with true grit and tenacity to withstand the disgusting 10vs12 games.
We're talking about reaching actual finals, not the final of the gamper trophy.

>he elevated them
kek, no he didn't

That's one big moment, still less moments than Messi. The finals won, goals, and assists show it. Don't make me assume you can't do math.

How can you make the "elevated" argument for Ronaldo but not Messi? Messi creates more goalscoring opportunities, more big chances, more short/long passes, more key passes, more assists - and he averages more than one goal per game while doing all of that. Yet somehow it's Messi's fault when his team fails to capitalize but it's not Ronaldo's cause his team was just "bad". Again, please point me to a team that won 4/7 CLs in the last 20 years with three in a row that only had 3 major player changes in their entire 11. If anything, Ronny's team elevates him into a position where he can be fed the ball, have the final touch, and poach the fuck out of the opposition.

Also, Madrid has had refball consecutively from 2014 - 2017. They wouldn't have made the 2014/2016 finals if VAR existed. If you care about "reaching finals", you can literally look up the numbers: Messi reached more and won more than Ronaldo. If you really don't care about "all" the finals you admit Ronaldo is a CL system baby and nothing else. He can't prove himself against midtable La Liga teams in the league, can't even win more Copas. The guy literally exists for like 15 matches a season, making him the ultimate pleb.

>no Ronaldo = worst season with most defeats since the 70s
yea he was useless

>Messi creates more goalscoring opportunities, more big chances, more short/long passes, more key passes, more assists
against Haiti and Huesca

>Ronaldo scores in an international final then misses a penalty
>Messoy fans: fraud, he choked

>Messoy does nothing in two finals against Chile including ET, misses penalty
>magisterial performance, we dont deserve his skills

>madrid had refball
and i'm just supposed to take your word for that?

Attached: catalansandtheirdaddy.png (713x326, 598K)

And I'm supposed to take your word that Barca had refball?

Ronaldo spent 8 seasons statpadding against Huesca in La Liga, APOEL in the CL, and Faroe Islands, Finland, Wales, Hungary, Poland, etc in internationals. He still hasn't scored against teams like Uruguay, Brazil, France, Germany, and even England. What a pleb.

no, you can watch videos from the official la liga channel, like this one youtube.com/watch?v=K7OC9YW0Ogs

Even the official channel states it's a "possible" penalty; but we can talk about the possibility of some calls that were clear, like Ramos's offside header in the 2016 final to make it 1-1. Or the two offside goals Madrid scored against Bayern in 2017. Both instances would have fundamentally changed Madrid's ability to win the final and weren't called.

By the way, none of this detracts from the fact that Messi *individually* contributes more to his team per game in and in finals than Ronaldo does. The numbers don't lie.

>Ronaldo

>lose to GREECE in PORTUGAL in a finals

name ONE fucking Greek international player.

Does Ronaldo have a World Cup like Francesco Totti?

No?

Then he's a fucking worse player. Yea Forums logic.

(Totti is better than le tap in man, but you see my point)

Attached: totti06.jpg (683x1024, 372K)

nephew cr7 has 5 champions league

Maldini has five CLs. Next.

Theodoros Zagorakis
I know you wouldn’t know the name of greek footballers because in the end a Messi fan knows shit about football and only watches meme highlights of him on YouTube

Kyriakos Papdopolous

yes, that's what you take away from that vid, the title, not the fact that the league is blatantly uploading their biased refereeing. they don't even care. and then bring up ignorant examples, like the 2016 CL final where the referee admitted his mistake at halftime and gave a free penalty for atletico. that's all uefalona fagboys are, ignorant cheaters who try to shift the past. balls.ie/newsnow/mark-clattenburg-2-376166

oh you really showed him by saying next after your ignorant mathematical comment, congrats. truly representing leafland with your 0 football knowledge. either youre actually this retarded or youre being obtuse on purpose, either way the only people it's gonna impress are 5 year olds.

The point was either way the outcome of the game would have fundamentally changed but it didn't because it wasn't called. Do you think a ref apologizing makes up for how significant that mistake was to the opposing team? Somehow it's okay for Ronaldo's team but Messi's team is blatant refball.

How can you write so much but say so little? I know English isn't your first language but come on. Not only can you not prove that Ronaldo's individual numbers are better, but you're coping so hard you actually used the refball example then have the delusion to say that Real's mistakes were forgiven.

That has nothing to do with Messi being a better individual contributor to his team that Ronaldo. Cope.

no, the point is it's not refball when the referee makes it right on purpose and both teams players agree that the refereeing was correct. that's why we didn't have an "It's a disgrace" moment any time Madrid won. it's really not that hard to understand so the only answer is you're just arguing dishonestly by repeating yourself, which is the same as conceding.

*gets whacked by a moth in a major final*
HOW can anybody defend this?

Attached: penaldo.jpg (960x650, 70K)

>that's why we didn't have an "It's a disgrace" moment any time Madrid won
lol

Messi is the only player in the world whose record is being kept by counting the games in which he didn't score. You think about that.

>no, the point is it's not refball when the referee makes it right on purpose and both teams players agree that the refereeing was correct.

Except both teams didn't agree. The cameras didn't agree. The linesmen didn't agree. But we accept the decision because it happened and you can't change it, even if the ref made a bad call. Apologizing after the game is pointless, because the call was still made, and I'll reiterate that both calls would have fundamentally changed Madrid's ability to make the final.

>that's why we didn't have an "It's a disgrace" moment any time Madrid won

And you claim I'm dishonest lmao.

Maldini doesnt have 5 CL as top scorer

Nevermind me, just taking my /elite/ cup for a walk

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yes they did, did you read the article i linked?

>Clattenburg admits that "if Real hadn't benefitted from a bad decision in the first half he probably wouldn't have given it [the Atleti penalty]. The best referees, he believes, make their decisions based on context and balance. Afterwards Real and Atletico were very complimentary about my performance".
> "Real and Atletico were very complimentary about my performance"
> "Real and Atletico were very complimentary about my performance"
> "Chelsea players said the overall feeling is one of being robbed and injustice"
> "That was the worst refereeing I have ever seen."
> "IT'S A FUCKING DISGRACE! A FUCKING DISGRACE"
> "Real and Atletico were very complimentary about my performance"
yeah, totally the same thing right? you're a diaspora jew aren't you? just can't stop arguing even though you're making a complete ass out of yourself