We discover facts about geometry rather than constructing them, proving that there are universal truths to be discovered. Consider color as well; you can name multiple things that are the color blue, yet if there were no universals, there would be no universal form of "blueness" to assign to these objects. They would all have to possess the quality of an individual color, yet we can see this is not true due to the fact that they do indeed share the same color.
>BUT THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION! IN MY OPINION EVERYTHING HAS AN INDIVIDUAL COLOR You can't make this argument against universals because someone else can make the same claim, making your argument non individualistic and another universal.
The existence of universals proves that truth is real. If you make a claim about a particular universal and it isn't true, you have made an objectively untrue claim. An example would be claiming that blueness is also in fact redness (since the universal of blueness is not redness, you have made an erroneous statement concerning an objective universal.)
Show me a contemporary piece that is anywhere as moving as the best of Mozart and Beethoven.
Fact: nEw MuSIc!! Is infinitely worse than regular melodic and motific music.
Real music is positively magical. my soul is so stirred and effected by the greats - I am so Inspired - that I am moved to tears. Such a smile grows across my face when I’m listening to a real jem. I’m so happy to be right there in that moment that I want for nothing else, it is satisfaction and contentedness in its purest form.
Then my friend drags me to a contemporary premier and after watching a chamber group play a new “Co0l and iNnoVATive!” Piece called “Fuck whitey” l, I am expected to call the inventor of this shallow, basic, idiotic piece of “art” a “composer”.
Sometimes I piddle around at the piano and I have to really try, really reach to write a few pleasant sounding bars. I can’t imagine writing a whole sonata that is fun and joyous throughout. I imagine the labor, even for those with a natural talent for it, that is put into sonatas that I actually like listening to. How much effort do you think went into a piece that is basically 20 minutes of “LooK WHaT I CaN Do!!”
Camden Young
no one reply to this dubious post pls
Luis Harris
This but ironically
David Morris
this is proof you have no rebuttal.
Wyatt Adams
i agree, but you don't have to be so mean about it.
Kayden Carter
Prove to me that Hahn's isn't the best performance of BWV 1004 Chaconne. >but she's female!!! Irrelevant, I would say the same thing if a man performed it with the same expression and technique. >ur just a waifufag!!! Literally nobody is sexually attractive to me, so this is categorically false.
Am I allowed to listen to classical music if I'm not classically trained/ can't play an instrument?
I like Bach, Pachelbel, Vivaldi, I guess.. the more well known baroque composers, but I can only enjoy it in the same way I enjoy popular music I like >Oh, that's a nice melody >I like this part a lot >I like how this instrument sounds
I listen to real musicians talk about it and they have an understanding and seem to get something from this music that is entirely inaccessible to me.
>tfw eternal plen
Sebastian Perry
Just give up and listen to pop. Your parents abused you by not giving you a musical education and you can't make up for it.
Evan King
ofc no, try again after reading 3-4 books about sonata form and voice leading
Aaron King
start from 0, what an octave is, the notes of the piano, what a scale is, what a chord is, triads, fifths etc
get an instrument, not to master it but for it to be a tool for learning music use wikipedia and youtube for anything you don't understand, especially italian or german terms you see in classical music records
Oliver Bailey
Color isn't universal. You mistake an empirical observation for universality, when in fact your senses only convey the world as it appears to you. What we call "blue" is just how that color (a Kantian thing in itself) appears to most human eyes. Color "blind" people see color differently than most, but their empirical observations are also just as valid.
For me modern music falls under a few categories: 1. Schizo tunes influenced by popular negro music 2. So derivative of the likes of Wagner or Holst that it amounts to plagiarism (most film soundtracks) 3. Sometimes I find a modern piece that I do like but it tends to get boring after 2 or 3 listens due to negro influenced repetition
Lincoln Anderson
as you listen to more you'll understand it better.
Sebastian White
We knows this. We don't care.
Wyatt Russell
Because the best performance is by Gidon Kramer
Robert Sanchez
Her last name literally means chicken and faucet, I think you know where she should have stayed.
Lincoln Cook
In general, it's too fast and angry for me, but the arpeggio sections are actually really interesting with such an interpretation. I guess? I try not to pay attention to the new labels that the LGBTQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ community is making, but this one seems pretty accurate to my experiences. Pretty interesting so far, I'll get back to you when I've finished it. Funny if ironic, cringe if not.
>Color isn't universal. You mistake an empirical observation for universality, when in fact your senses only convey the world as it appears to you. What we call "blue" is just how that color (a Kantian thing in itself) appears to most human eyes. Color "blind" people see color differently than most, but their empirical observations are also just as valid. Bad argument. You fail to realize that we're participating in the same universal by even discussing this. If this were not an universal concept we were discussing, we wouldn't even be able to talk about this, for there would simply be spewing individual perceptions of no particular thing at each other, but we can observe that we ARE indeed discussing particular propositions that exist in both my mind and your mind.
Brody Gutierrez
Verum ipsum factum. Truth is based on consensus. Color doesn't exist for creatures without sight. And if you are using the fallacious argument that one inadvertently confirms the existence of universals by denying their existence, that is necessary for the sake of argument.
>implying that appearance makes a good musician >implying that Moomintroll isn't the second most adorable fucking thing in the universe, second only to Snufkin
Caleb Martinez
Once again you're missing the point that I'm talking about the proposition of color, not the empirical reality of color. Color most certainly exists as a proposition, as evident in our ability to even discuss it. The claim that certain animals can't perceive color is actually still founded on the proposition of color.
And you are missing the point that if no creature ever had the ability to see, color would not exist. If every creature with the ability to see disappeared off the face of the earth at the same time, the idea of color would cease to exist. Ideas live in our heads.
Ryan Mitchell
he's too catchy
Blake White
>lel if everyone were colorblind then color wouldn't exist tell that to the plants that absorb every wavelength but green
Ryder Lewis
Absurd statement. If propositions were completely constructed in our minds then 1+1=2 would vanish if there was no mind to process it, which is inherently an unwarranted argument against science.
Owen Robinson
>Color doesn't exist for creatures without sight. Why would you say that? You cant see many things but they are still there.
Do you really believe this? Damn that's pure stupidity.
Thomas Davis
All in all, somewhat dry and safe, but not so much as to make it boring. I like it, but it's not particularly great.
Colton Barnes
Math is based on logic, but also on the conception of what a number even is. Ancient Greece developed Euclidean geometry and then just stopped, because it answered all the questions that the Greek idea of number asked. Likewise the concept of zero was developed in India, the first civilization to contemplate nothing as something. Islam with its mystic symbolism developed algebra, and China perfected linear algebra before the Han because of the uniquely visual way they look at the world. Western mathematicians would pull all this together (Leibniz is known to have been highly influenced by Chinese mathematics) and create its own style of math in the form of infinitesimal calculus. Math is painted like an art form, it is based on logic, but it's not universal either.
what absolutely perplexes me is that you believe your argument has any rhetorical or rational force when it can only be true in the complete absence of a rational entity
Ayden Anderson
Why do you make out like coming up with the number 0 changed reality, there still existed 0 before that people can recognize when theres 1 bird in the sky, 2 birds in the sky or when theres none, humans just started to develop it in mathematics but it was always reality. It's clear from the user that he didn't mean the concept of maths in writing but what math represents which is real and you could call "a universal truth"(even though the term is cringe).
Damn, I used to be one of those fags who would only listen to art of the fugue for harpsichord but this is better than all harpsichord recordings I heard so far youtube.com/watch?v=XrrYGJ3jNeM
Angel Davis
that's the piece I thought this sounded like, not goldberg variations, I mixed them up because I saw Glenn Gould playing both
I usually only listen to Bach on Harpsichord but for works that were written after the piano was already invented I make an exception, like for the Art of Fugue and Musia Offering. My favorite Art of Fugue is by Ann-Helena Schlüter (I believe that's how you spell it)
Cooper Campbell
Why do so many recordings of Mozart's requiem remove the organ during the Rex Tremendæ? Any recordings that double down on it?
Brody Morales
are you sure they remove it? more than likely the organ is probably there, just really subdued. organs are notoriously hard to balance against an orchestra so most conductors just give up.
Asher Morgan
No I think they just don't use it. I was mostly listening to different completions so they likely thought the organ was some Süssmayr addition and ignored it
>I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V-I-V >forcefully periodic structure with empty runs of major and minor scales and arpeggios Ahhhhhhhh, now that's music; moves me to tears. Such beautiful and magical labour!
What's worse than getting cucked? Getting anti-cucked of course! >Richard Gerstl (14 September 1883 – 4 November 1908) was an Austrian painter and draughtsman known for his expressive psychologically insightful portraits, his lack of critical acclaim during his lifetime, and his affair with the wife of Arnold Schoenberg which led to his suicide. >Although Gerstl did not associate with other artists, he did feel drawn to the musically inclined; he himself frequented concerts in Vienna. Around 1907, he began to associate with composers Arnold Schoenberg and Alexander von Zemlinsky, who lived in the same building at the time. Gerstl and Schoenberg developed a mutual admiration based upon their individual talents. Gerstl apparently instructed Schoenberg in art. >During this time, Gerstl moved into a flat in the same house and painted several portraits of Schoenberg, his family, and his friends. These portraits also included paintings of Schoenberg's wife Mathilde, Alban Berg and Zemlinsky. His highly stylized heads anticipated German expressionism and used pastels as in the works by Oskar Kokoschka. Gerstl and Mathilde became extremely close and, in the summer of 1908, she left her husband and children to travel to Vienna with Gerstl. Schoenberg was in the midst of composing his Second String Quartet, which he dedicated to her. Mathilde rejoined her husband in October. >Distraught by the loss of Mathilde, his isolation from his associates, and his lack of artistic acceptance, Gerstl entered his studio during the night of 4 November 1908 and apparently burned every letter and piece of paper he could find. Although many paintings survived the fire, it is believed that a great deal of his artwork as well as personal papers and letters were destroyed. Other than his paintings, only eight drawings are known to have survived unscathed. Following the burning of his papers, Gerstl hanged himself in front of the studio mirror and somehow managed to stab himself as well.
Logan Foster
Yes
Connor Johnson
Hypothetically speaking, what is the oldest one can be to learn music and still be a musical genius?
For example Wagner only learnt in his mid-teens.
Samuel Moore
Wagner was a hack
Logan Thompson
Ever heard of a fugue bud
Evan Robinson
you just don't understand the human soul's relation to the cosmos like Beethoven did
Josiah Long
And pretty much ruined music with his nonsensical chords so it's safe to assume mid-teens is too late.
>just a bunch of scales interspersed with trills for contrast Bravo Carl.
Thomas Reed
I fail to see the connection between the human soul's relation to the cosmos and needing to force periodic structure with empty scale runs and arpeggios into every phrase.
Gabriel Evans
Classical and romantic era are the worst periods of Western art music; no wonder the majority of normies and dilettantes refer to this music when speaking of classical music. Bach is the last good composer until fin-de-siècle.
Is Czerny the worst composer of all time? Has he written ONE piece of music that isn't mechanical soulless drivel filled with empty runs with absolutely no substance?
Tyler Sanders
If you leave out all these atonal hacks, I might agree. Well, not the worst, but kind of bland.
And next you'll try to tell me that noise is actually music?
Ian Gonzalez
Yeah, imagine thinking function harmony and forced periodic structure full of empty scale runs are the best classical music has to offer!
Nathan Martinez
how lovely soullets filtered
Noah Cruz
>noise Why bring musique concrete into this?
Aiden Nguyen
Schoenberg knew more than you could ever comprehend in ten lifetimes.
Luis Morris
>life's passion is music >have a masterful understanding of theory, write a books about it >want to innovate music >invent a cool technique for composing which consists of rethinking traditional harmony >plebe filter the whole world >lesser composers seethe so hard that they invent a genre which dumbs classical down to the point of lunacy youtube.com/watch?v=doJk4yPwJDk >plebe filters everyone to this day >accused of wanting to destroy music despite making some of the most forward thinking and life affirming music for his time >accused of wanting to destroy music because he's jewish Why does he get the reputation for destroying music despite making his music out of a love for music and innovation when the people who replaced were 10x worse? Minimalism is regressive whereas serialism is progressive, and he didn't hate traditional music or anything. He loved traditional harmony and wrote about it. He only wanted to innovate because innovation is a good thing in music, for instance the jump from Bach to Mozart was because of innovation in music.
I disagree, either way you have 10 times less creativity than Schoenberg had in his little finger.
Asher Martinez
You do not have a soul. Why the fuck do you even like music of the only think you get out of it is a top town appreciation. “Ah, yes, c o m p l i c a t e d. I am finally complete”. Go shoot yourself and call the percussive report of the gun your final musical masterpiece. You might even be able to sell a few tickets
Just go try and find geometric patterns in clouds or something. It’s the same thing.
Juan Allen
>Ah, yes, c o m p l i c a t e d. I am finally complete Who are you quoting? >Go shoot yourself and call the percussive report of the gun your final musical masterpiece Reminds me of this
Tyler Nguyen
Just wait until I seriously start composing, you'll question your whole life up to this point
Grayson Bell
I genuinely can't wait. Will you post your work in this general?
Caleb Hall
Post
Camden Murphy
Do you two faggots think scales = soul or something lmao
Maybe. I don't want to be associated with Yea Forums, but I might post some smaller works. It won't be in the near future though, because I still have to improve my piano skills
Lucas Rivera
This is like watching an alien say “ice cream is literally just sugar, milk, and butter. I don’t see why you guys like it so much”
>REEEEE FOOD ANALOGY
Joshua Richardson
particularly in measure 16, to say beethoven was thinking in terms of functional harmony is insulting to the organization of musical tones
how do you analyze those accidentals, functional harmony bois? as you can see it modulates from F to A major, up a major third, how do you explain that? such a distant key wowo, op54 no22
Theres no modulation there, the accidentals are leading into the dominant chord
Christian Brooks
Not remotely the same, scalefag. Czerny is godawful.
Logan Cruz
can u imagine seeing the oscillation of V-I and being mad that it's so simple and boring? what if there's a lot more to the story than the descending 5th meme? can u imagine trying to understand beethoven in terms of barbaric numerals? wowo
John Gutierrez
oh yes the accidentals B natty and d sharp and f sharp outlining a B major triad to preceed a C7 before A major oh yes thanks user I get it now
Gabriel Watson
generic answer but either Moonlight by Debussy or something by Chopin
Aiden Walker
>NO NOT THE SAME NOT THE SAME NOT THE SAME
Ok soullet. You’re wanted elsewhere for an experiment regarding P-zombies
Lucas Smith
>tfw try to write a simple 2 voice fughetta >go all over the place and have little counterpoint so that one may not even know it to be a fughetta
Ok I agree, chord analysis are oversimplifications. But the accidentals do function to lead into c e g and bar 21 in a major is a bit strange but I think Beethoven would have seen it as unexpected, the g minor leaving the first part in pivot helps him lead into A smoothly from the b flat.
Gavin King
>93488312 my point isn't that it's an oversimplification, but entirely incorrect and worse misleading. this piece modulates basically every 8 measures, using the same phrase, and the same technique, in a way that, from the perspective of analysis that they teach in school, is pure chaos, but from another.. it could be said beethoven didn't even write the damn thing it's so obvious what's going on
anyone have examples of modern compositions that don't sound like shit?
Michael Cruz
scriabin, if you are saying 'modern' period rautavaara, if you mean recent
Nathaniel Hughes
>analysis that they teach in school Doubt you're a music student at all. Pretending analysis is a straightjacket is a dilettante's hobby. By the way B7 to C7 is just a mediant substitution.
Joshua Evans
>rautavaara Just started listening to symphony 7, not impressed, sounds like a movie soundtrack, something like Hans Zimmer, which is not a good thing. Wow it's fucking repetitive.
Asher Garcia
you didn't like my recommendation? i'm sorry kiddo but you have verifiably bad taste. you just don't get it. you must be a musical brainlet.
in the 21'st century you have two options: OST sound-alikes or weird avant garde crap. what? don't like any of that? don't tell me you want people to start c-composing p-p-pastiches now!?
I just posted La Buranella from 1990, so you're wrong
Luke Ward
just realized you said 21st century, but regardless Rautavaara's symphony 7 is from 1994
Jackson Davis
i am agreeing with you. there's also alma duetcher.
that thing you posted sounds very pleasant. but the overuse of trills and clear bowing to cliche diminishes it. It is also very cheesy, despite its good sound. The heavy use of repeats is also extremely lazy and quite annoying.
Imagine what new great works would be created if all classical composers tried to write in such a way. Not every one would be a beethoven, not every piece a masterpiece, but neither were they all in the 18'th 19'th centuries. Eventually, we would get the next eroica, the next mozart 41.
Yeah, I don't know what happened, Schönberg and other Jews thought everything was explored I guess and wanted to be edgy, and it all snowballed into literal cat walking on piano/nigger savages beating sticks while trying to uphold a facade of "you're just not sophisticated enough to appreciate this great art".
What happened was Schoenberg got cucked and found that the only musical expression for cuckoldry is atonality.
Justin Gonzalez
>alma duetcher just searched her on youtube, is this greta thunberg?
Asher Hernandez
its not a b7 u stupid dip, you're all the same dropping vocab cooked up in the last 20 years like beethoven was thinking yes I'll substitute the chord a 5th above with the chord a 3rd above that fifth and I'll make it major to be unexpected. you cannot explain a major 3rd modulation prepared or the f sharp as independent from the g that is only dominant when that f is natural beethoven didn't even write this piece the damn thing wrote itself don't bullshit us with look it's the 3rd of the 5 chord and those accidentals came because he used the modal mixture from the 5s minor
you're a preprogrammed shill novody can write anything with the cancer in textbooksis proof where is the music???
I'm tired of this elitist authoritarianism, only morons are convinced by it
get ready, you're about to be beat down by the resident dissonancefags. I have been keeping a very open mind toward "new music". I can confidently say that there is little to actually enjoy in it. I leapt somewhat into the "maybe atonal music isn't to bad" area of thought, and dissonance began to actually tickle me in quite a way. But the more i explore contemporary concert music the more i am coming to the conclusion that it is simply an abarition of human psychology. There are certain types of people that MUST have 'superior' taste to the rest, and these people find their home in these types of art. to them, the more separated they are in their tastes from whatever they consider "normie", the better.
contemporary concert music is more modern art masquerading as music than actual music in and of itself.
Bentley Turner
Ignore the low Cs in the bass. A lot of the most superficially perplexing Romantic harmonies are just normal chords above a pedal tonic or dominant. >a major 3rd modulation Wtf? There is no such modulation. Can you specify exactly where you see it? The modulation at the end of the first repeat is to brief C major before re-introducing the B-flat for the repeat. Very conventional. >yes I'll substitute the chord a 5th above with the chord a 3rd above that fifth and I'll make it major to be unexpected. All he did was modulate to C via B instead of G. B is the mediant of G. This is an enormously common technique in Romantic music. I'm sorry if it is too complicated for you to understand, but then maybe classical music isn't for you.
I'm not that other guy who replied Try his harp concerto Rautavaara is literally a neo-romantic
Hunter Nguyen
favorite mvmt is the 3rd
Connor Roberts
what are u talking about ignore the pedal its the only thing rooting us in a tonal location, the accidentals are passing chords but not based on the key of the dominant, ie a sub based on the 5 of c. the end goal is to restate in A major after you take the first repeat. the pedal c and it's arpeggio with chromatic passing tones preparing a future restatement in the 2nd repeat >no modu the first 6 measures is literally sequenced and repeated in A major at the 2nd ending and this is repeated continually throughout the entire piece, these are temporary modulations to momentary keys, or is that not an a major scale played in ascending sixths precisely as it was played in F at the opening. he then descends alternating sixths and thirds, and later sixths and 5ths. he's alternating keys and using a very specific technique exploiting a natural emergent property of the tones themselves.
>the end goal is to restate in A major after you take the first repeat No, wtf? The goal of the first repeat is to modulate to C. It does so via B (MEDIANT) instead of G, but that's not a big deal (except for brainlets). That's it. The second section restates the material a major third (MEDIANT) higher and then develops it. Schumann also does this in the development of his fourth symphony. Idk what you find so mind-blowing about this but I strongly suspect inexperience and idiocy. >a very specific technique exploiting a natural emergent property of the tones themselves. Care to explain or is this just more drug-addled gibberish?
Carson Brown
this is what we have to work with today, indoctrinated insecure narcissists who insist naming something is the same as understanding something
David Miller
The fact that dissonance fags must eternally defend their music instead of simply asserting that it is good shows that they know they have no ground to stand on.
>"could it be that they simply enjoy it?".
the proposition in this question is clear: "they enjoy it", but in wrapping it up in a question like that it is so hesitantly and weakly stated that you might as well have murmured it through stuttering lips.
fact: there will always be somebody that stretches their taste to such extremes they they convince themselves to enjoy something that is objectively terrible. that person is you. "but there are so many of us". no. you are in the extreme minority of music listeners. i can confidently say that dissonance fags are in the EXTREME minority of music listeners and creators. your taste was not developed naturally: it was thrust upon you by your peers, who have also found themselves in the unfortunate position of being in and amongst "academic" musicians.
Brayden Perry
just admit you got filtered by le icky dissonances and move on hans you gargantuan faggot
Ayden Evans
>saying why you like something is evidence you don't like it
Aiden Cox
>NOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO COMPOSE THE SAME MUSIC THAT WAS ALREADY MADE 200 YEARS AGO WITH INFANTILE RHYTHM AND HARMONY AND ONLY ONE MUSICAL PARAMETER MUST BE FULFILLED AND THAT'S A PRETTY MELODY AND EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE COMPLETELY UNDERDEVELOPED BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE IN PROGRESSION >NOOOOOOOO YOU MUSTN'T USE TOO MANY DISSONANCES!! WHY??? BECAUSE THEY SOUND BAD BECAUSE I SAID SO!
evidence that dissonance fags don't have an argument. they are unable to simply call it good. they ALWAYS resort to the "my taste is just too sophisticated" argument.
In and of itself? No. Flour and salt are also good but nobody would eat just flour and salt. Tires are good, steering wheels are good, all the parts that go into a car are good. Nobody but nobody would want a car that is just a random assemblage of parts.
What would be the musical equivalent of the "random assemblage of parts" you're talking about? I don't really understand your analogy because modern music has both dissonant and consonant intervals and isn't random at all. Especially not serialist music.
I took a shower. I said “I bet he’s going to say I’m not allowed to make analogies.”
I was correct. Why? Because analogies are your most dangerous enemy since they prove you wrong time and time again. You cannot allow them for this reason.
Joshua White
I take every part that goes into a machine and weld together from biggest to smallest.
“What are you talking about? It isn’t random at all! See, there’s order: biggest to smallest. You should want this machine!”
Anthony Gray
What in the actual fuck?
Jaxson Perez
>I took a shower. sounds unlikely by your own criteria, the most compelling response I can make is to say that there exist masterpieces of serialism
Ethan Reed
have you never heard it before? It's my favorite piece of his, along with the op.127 and op.132 quartets
Dominic Long
But how do you prove your prefered order is the only right order in the context of music. Cars are different obviously because they are tools with a function. If a car can't transport people it might be objectively bad or wathever but a composition isn't a tool.
Here’s a funny thing. I was about to use eating dirt as an overly hyperbolic example of how human taste can stretch far enough to enjoy something objectively terrible. Then I remembered: “wait, didn’t I see something a few years ago about these dirt cookies?”
That’s right. In Haiti, they are so poor that they cook dirt and form it into mud patties to eat. That is their idea of a meal. And even more: they actually enjoy it (apparently). There are even various qualities of dirt you can get, and some women will even take out loans to buy “better dirt”.
We can all agree that these dirt cookies are objective terrible. But, I am extremely confident that if you put a couple art fags in a room, dress the cookies up with a story like “these are a Haitian favorite delicacy” and maybe imprint a little pattern into the Cookies to make them look nice, they will be positively enjoyed by the art fags. Even though they are OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE. I might even try this at my next event to see if I can get some pretentious art fags to suck my dick over how “interesting” they taste.
Dominic Cruz
Could someone recommend some contemporary, I dont necessarily have a problem with the harmony but the form is often hard for me to appreciate, a lot of it starts very slow and I'm more used to classical which has a driven narrative. This for example youtu.be/S_vVN7ONPnc Is nice I guess but I don't really care for it.
Aiden Brown
>We can all agree that these dirt cookies are objective terrible how do you know I am not Haitian?
Check it out, I found one. Apparently there are some who actually enjoy eating clay.
Jaxon Ward
I positively love it when they have to make an idiot of themselves just to remain technically correct.
Jacob Sanders
Lmao I was just trying to antagonize you and clearly it worked
Owen Evans
Excuse me for a moment /classical/ my dirt cookies just finished baking I’ll be back to tell you how they taste :^)
Brayden Nguyen
you still haven't explained what makes your taste the objectively right taste car analogies are obviously stupid for the reasons mentioned above food analogies are stupid too because food isn't primarily art, it fulfills a biological need and even the perception of different flavors is closely related to that need with music you don't have anything like that, it's just frequencies
the food analogy relates to taste in things. i just as easily could have picked painting or any other medium. the car analogy relates to order and organization. but they BOTH relate to the fact that just because the parts of a whole can all be called individually good does not mean that each of the things can be enjoyed in and of themselves. the fundamental argument is this: just because dissonance, meaning, intention, chords, rhythm, scales, timbre, etc.. are all good as parts of a composition does not mean that each of those things can be fully enjoyed on their own. even more: even if all of them are included in some form, the organization matters. a piece with mostly just rhythm isn't very enjoyable. neither is a piece with mostly just timbre, just scales up and down, mostly just dissonance. even a piece with lots of meaning and intent, but little of what was previously mentioned is no good. Yes, is it possible to get SOME enjoyment from a piece with much of only a few elements and little of the rest, but why would you when there are plenty of pieces that are by all means better, and include all of the elements in good amounts?
a person who says "i prefer pieces that contain absolutely no dissonance" or "i prefer pieces that contain no rhythm" or modulations, or whatever, obviously has a few screws loose. then what of people who say "i prefer pieces that have absolutely no harmony"?. That is not to say that ALL pieces that are lacking in several major elements are worse than pieces that are more conventional, but just because it is possible to enjoy a piece that lacks several major elements of music does not mean one should feel comfortable retreating entirely into a taste that includes mostly music that is basically perceived as terrible and unenjoyable for everyone except a few,
William Long
is that a fucking midi performance
Cooper Butler
I'm seeing in czerny lots of what i see in modern composers (especially on youtube) who try to compose classical music: good instincts but terrible ironing out, and no sense for what will be perceived as "weird" by the listener. lots of awkward runs that don't come to a properly satisfying conclusion when they have to fit back into the harmony. Odd use of rhythms that dislodge the listener from a sense of flow. in general: lots jagged edges that only remind the listener of the mediocrity of the composer.
A review of Bernhard Lang’s “I Hate Mozart”: "Why do I have to sing Mozart all the time?", the tenor in Bernhard Lang’s opera "I hate Mozart" cries out in despair. Well, why always listen to Mozart operas and not an opera of the early 21st century for a change? With their provocatively named contribution to the Viennese Mozart Year 2006, composer Bernhard Lang and librettist Michael Sturminger succeeded in creating a parody of the opera business that loses none of its sharp wit in the CD recording. The "backstage insights" supplied on DVD reveal the abysses of singerdom and the respective worlds of conductors, managers and agents. Lang shamelessly avails himself of the latest DJ and sampling techniques, employing loops of popular melodies and familiar communication patterns to chase the stressed-out artists through their personal neuroses. The result is music of exceptional brilliance, superbly presented by the original ensemble.
Levi Morris
Imagine unironically complaining about too much Mozart.
Jordan Jackson
>babbys first hextonic progression Romantic chromaticism was designed to work in harmony with functional tonality you fucking retard
James Watson
I'll admit I'm a pleb for trying to reinvent neoriemannian theory / not knowing about neo riemannian theory. the only riemann I knew of was the mathematician, ironic very happy I don't have all the work in the world to do anymore
Liam Rogers
we have another perspective now thanks to bebop but I'd hardly say these tendencies were invented they are not independent of the descending 5th meme I struggle to see how anyone can bother with numeral analysis at all when composition is so focused around intervalic contour
Hunter Lopez
>the descending 5th meme Oh god you're that turd from earlier. Why the fuck are you so stupid?? You're autistically railing against a caricature that you invented. What are you even trying to say? In the Renaissance there were only a few commonly used accidentals in music and by the 20th century it was atonal. Of course there was an evolution that took place. Your problem is your inability to view the systems as interconnected where appropriate, to see what parts of Beethoven are inherited and which are innovated. You utterly lack the imagination to think musically. Just stop posting please, for your own sake, you're damaging your remaining brain cells by reformulating your erroneous ideas and, reinforcing their warpedness by presenting them as fact.
Luis Davis
>write opera >nobody likes it >they keep listening to the classics >"S-Stop playing to mozart! Just give me a chance!"
>entirely That's where you're wrong. I understand your excitement. Cohn's Audacious Euphony is one of my favourite theory books of all time. But to take from it, or other work from that school of thought that functional harmony doesn't exist is just plain retarded. >not scale degrees Like I said, they work hand in hand. Schenker and others prove it, even Riemannm who never disavowed functional harmony. The point was always that diatonicism and chromaticism shared the same tonal space.
Landon Rodriguez
Ok so your analogy relates to order and taste, how do you prove your taste is the right taste and your prefered order is the right order? You talk about how a better balance of timbre, rythm, harmony, etc leads to better music in general, but everyone has a different idea of what's balanced. Eg Bach's music is less balanced to the to the average music listener than pop, rock and trap because they want more timbral complexity, more emphasis on rhythm (syncopations, drumbeats), and they don't care for harmonic complexity and counterpoint at all. The same applies to people who listen to classical. So why would your idea of balance be some objective truth?
Ayden Turner
Not him but dont some like Schenker argue that Brahms(as well Mozart and Beethoven) shunned Rameau's theories on functional harmony?
Joshua Wood
Analogy time!
When baking cookies, one doesn't have to stick directly to the recipie. One may adjust the balance of eggs, flour, sugar, and butter, and chocolate chips to their liking. Some people prefer more butter to make it chewier, more chocolate chips, more flour to make it crumbled and cakes, some may prefer it a little soggy in the middle, etc...
However, there is a point where there is so much flour and sugar that it not only fails to be a cookie, but the taste becomes offensive. Or so much butter that the thing is basically gooping and dripping with melted butter.
The idea is this: everybody has a different preference for balance, and the edges of “how much is too much” CAN be difficult to discern. Additionally, you might find that you Can stretch how far you’re willing to go. But just because the edge is fuzzy does not mean it’s not there.
Alexander Gonzalez
Beware: autocorrect. Apologies.
Joseph Gray
Okay does ANYONE know a HIP (or slightly HIP) performance of the Kyrie fugue in Mozart's Requiem that isn't super fast? Something that clocks around 3 minutes maybe? Spering's clocks around 3:40 and that's way too slow but everyone else does it in like 2:10 what the hell.
Evan Phillips
how is astor piazzola and his tango shit classical?
Chase Ortiz
I fucking hate people who chew with their mouth open
That piece wasn't so bad but I fucking hate Libertango and therefore all of Piazzolla. This is why spics aren't white. The nigger genes are showing. Tango is definitely not classical music. youtube.com/watch?v=kdhTodxH7Gw >Tango is a partner dance, and social dance that originated in the 1880s along the Río de la Plata, the natural border between Argentina and Uruguay. It was born in the impoverished port areas of these countries, where natives mixed with slave and European immigrant populations.
this song is by far my favorite orchestral piece, it blows me away every time I hear it.
Can you guys recommend me anything else like it? Stuff that's dark, moody, large swells, and just sounds powerful and... wistful. I don't really have the /classical/ vernacular to describe it.
Imagine being this cringe, so glad my /pol/ phase is over, I used to be like this.
Jaxon Myers
So your philosophy is basically "too different from the average taste = objectively bad"? Do you realize more complex tonal music like late Scriabin or Szymanowski are also very far from what the average 4bar-fag music listener can enjoy? Not as far as serial music but still really far. How do you define this fuzzy but very real edge? It seems arbitrary.
Blake Peterson
don't know, Brahms is romantic era, your piece is later, but when I started listening the double concerto was what came to mind
Cooper Cook
what happened? drank too much onions?
Alexander Ramirez
*soi or maybe you ate too many impossible burgers?
Oliver Reed
This is the most retarded and simplistic opinion I have come across in this general. It is not minimalism that is dumb, it is you that is dumbing down minimalism. There is an abundance of far dumber music to attack. Dodecaphony and minimalism was two of the most innovative musical movements of the 20th century. Why aren't you listening to both? The first brought innovation of harmony, the second innovation of form and rhythm. As innovation of form is more fundamental than innovation of content, one one could argue that the minimalists was even more innovative than the Schoenberg. To innovate you may (or may not) have destroy. Schoenberg could not have deployed dodecaphony within tonality. He needed to destroy it. Since minimalism was even more innovative than dodecaphony, they needed to destroy even more. Thus it's almost that like the minimalists went far back in time to before the development of the sonata form. Hence one could imagine a minimalist movement in the middle ages. But we didn't have it. Music developed forms that excluded minimalist development of motifs. Forms which we continued to loyally build upon for hundreds of years. There was no room for minimalism in this arc. We needed to tear something down to make room for it. And we didn't do it until mid 20th century. Isn't that remarkable? That we just accepted the these particular axioms for so long. What a grand discovery. Such a simple, elegant and fundamental solution hiding in plain sight. Maybe it would be easier for you to accept minimalism if it was discovered 400 years ago? Or maybe if your hero would have said he liked it. Because I am sure he would have loved minimalism at it's best. If only he would have lived to witness it.
>The task is, not so much to see what no one has yet seen; but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. - Erwin Schrödinger
Levi Cruz
>what happened? I started having sex
Jordan Diaz
I fucked 10 women and I didn't turn into the fag you are
Ayden Rodriguez
worked into a seething shoot by the damn filter baka
Christian Ward
How long have you been going with the /pol/ thing? for me it lasted like 2 years, hope you can get over your /pol/ phase soon.
Nolan Baker
You’re speaking nonsense man. Minimalists like Feldman were on par with serialists in terms of innovation but that eventually led to shit like Reich and Glass who incorporated elements of rock music. It’s been downhill since, nearly all contemporary American music is nigger-tier.
I'm unconvinced he leaves out c+ with the c and e moving upward to dB and f giving a dB major triad
I'm also unconvinced on his insistence of parallel motion of 2 voices from an augmented to a minor chord, and his rejecting both diminished possibilities, and single note movements, on some shaky grounds of its not symmetrical
What about anti-semitism, do you blame all problems on da jooz also?
Brayden Jenkins
just keep listening to tango with a dildo up your ass >oh my this music is so full of temperament
Austin Rogers
what's your best recommendation for an album that has a huge compilation of the best classical melodies?
Landon Moore
petzold
Jacob Roberts
I've not heard that said about Schenker. Source?
Owen Carter
>pic related you see anything about classical there bud? >That piece wasn't so bad I take that back, must have been half asleep when I heard it, it sucks
Simple analogies are dangerous to the earnest listener of a very intricate art called music and are only used either by midwits/teachers to explain complex phenomena to dilettantes and laymen in a laughably simple manner or by the psychotic narcissist who has an agenda he must force upon everybody in his proximity.
Andrew Lee
The post that destroyed Hans.
Jackson Howard
It seems arbitrary because it is. Hans is a psychotic narcissist. Every time he sees that he cannot further his horseshit any more because the cognitive dissonance is too much to handle, he stops replying to (You) and attacks somebody else/some other post and continues to write more incomprehensible dreck and so the cycle goes on. It's laughably predictable and pathetic.
Ayden Stewart
>Piazzolla's nuevo tango was distinct from the traditional tango in its incorporation of elements of jazz, its use of extended harmonies and dissonance, its use of counterpoint, and its ventures into extended compositional forms. As Argentine psychoanalyst Carlos Kuri has pointed out, Piazzolla's fusion of tango with this wide range of other recognizable Western musical elements was so successful that it produced a new individual style transcending these influences.[22] It is precisely this success, and individuality, that makes it hard to pin down where particular influences reside in his compositions, but some aspects are clear. The use of the passacaglia technique of a circulating bass line and harmonic sequence, invented and much used in 17th- and 18th-century baroque music but also central to the idea of jazz "changes", predominates in most of Piazzolla's mature compositions. Another clear reference to the baroque is the often complex and virtuosic counterpoint that sometimes follows strict fugal behavior but more often simply allows each performer in the group to assert his voice. A further technique that emphasises this sense of democracy and freedom among the musicians is improvisation, that is borrowed from jazz in concept, but in practice involves a different vocabulary of scales and rhythms that stay within the parameters of the established tango sound-world. Pablo Ziegler has been particularly responsible for developing this aspect of the style both within Piazzolla's groups and since the composer's death.
Dont listen to it if you dont want to but you're missing out on good music just because it's not strictly German academic classical.
Jace Baker
>Hector Berlioz (1843) famously complained that Mozart’s single trombone [during the 'Tuba mirum'] was inadequate to the task— “Why just one trombone to sound the terrible blast that should echo round the world and raise the dead from the grave? Why keep the other two trombones silent when not three, not thirty, not three hundred would be enough?” Holy shit what a tasteless bastard.
It gets a pass from me because it's played on the clavichord. The only piece I really like played by Wim would be this here. I still don't agree with his double beat theory youtu.be/fjpQJu4Lgis
Xavier Martinez
Yes, pretty much. It would be one thing if dissonancefags were like “guys, this stuff is great! You HAVE to listen to it? It’s worth it, I promise!”. But they never say such things. They are forced into a continual “in defense of” position because they know they know it’s by all means worse than normal music.
Classical fans, when told “pop is better” or “rock is better” scoff in disgust and say “you must have never truly experienced classical - here, give it a try”. But dissonance fags never say “take the plunge and you’ll find the waters are much better over here”, because they can’t. I have never, ever seen a person who is a fan of contemporary classical music posit that their genre actually offers RICHER ENJOYMENT of music.
Ryan Peterson
You have never positively argued something. Your only argument is to go calling people narcissists and giving posters names, so that you can contaminate their posts with identity and thus dismiss them without actually considering their argument.
I am beginning to consider that you are projecting, since the only reason I have the position that I do is by openmindedly discussing music with my IRL music friends, some of whom like contemporary.
>MOM HES NOT AGREEING WITH ME AND KISSING MY ASS WHEN I CALL HIN NAMES - HES A NARCICIST
fuck off. You clearly dont actually have an argument, you’re just here to be an disagreeable ass.
Hunter Lewis
God this is painfully slow It says presto right there for fucks sake how do you think this could ever be the right tempo
Jeremiah Johnson
Not him but Shut the fuck up please
Levi Howard
>>So your philosophy is basically "too different from the average taste = objectively bad"? >Yes, pretty much [incomprehensible gibberish, projection and strawmen] >REEEE PLEASE ARGUE WITH MEEE
Also posting a good rendition of the piece youtube.com/watch?v=Bd_9hgpo1u4&t=652s >those staccatos >those runs up and down the keyboard in the middle section Great performance
Leo Brown
>narcissistic seething not him btw
Isaac Miller
I bet people who need participation trophies think this. In this case however I like the slow tempo, might be because I enjoy chopped and screwed tracks.
Luke Bennett
>participation trophies what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
Who is happy about participation trophies? People who aren't good enough to get regular trophies. That's why they need the double beat theory.
Michael Gutierrez
this is /classical/, piazzolla has fuckall to do with this thread, fuck off back to the other threads sucking nigger dick where you belong
Lincoln Brown
>I have never, ever seen a person who is a fan of contemporary classical music posit that their genre actually offers RICHER ENJOYMENT of music You clearly haven't met me. I am not pure dissonancefag though. I was approximately pure dissonancefag when I was younger, but have softened over the years. I like some music from pretty much every period now. My least favorite period is romantic period although I like some stuff there as well.
Henry Hall
der ring des nibelungen is 15 hours long so that might be it
Logan Morales
>this is /classical/, piazzolla has fuckall to do with this thread This sounds pretty relevant to me. Calm down you something
Analogies don't prove shit. Pretending musical compositions are like buildings, cats, hairstyles, gaming mice, cameras, clothes, drilling machines or whatever fits your agenda the best is just retarded.
Dominic Lee
>resorting to samefagging Shameful
Connor Walker
If it’s a bad analogy then say “that’s a bad analogy”. What you’re doing is dismissing all analogies out of hand, which is retarded.
Dylan Gray
Analogies are inherently retarded.
Zachary Hall
It's a bad analogy, could someone not just say "I prefer high end cuisine not cookies" and make you appear to be a pleb with poor taste. I dont particularly like a lot of contemporary either but not because of the style a lot of the composers I've tried just seem artistically 2nd rate.
Samuel Gutierrez
I don’t think you understand analogies. Any analogy can be “circumvented” by coming up with a ridiculous retort to it.
A good analogy might be “just as a bicycle needs constant maintainable, so do you. Make sure to always exercise and eat healthy”. Then, someone might come along and say “lol that’s a horrible analogy people are nothing like bicycles. Are you saying that I need to oil myself And tighten my nuts and bolts?”. Obviously, no, because the argument is not that you are just like bicycle, but that things need maintenance. The analogy is not what formed the argument, but it is just a rhetorical tool to help get the point across. Analogies are useful because they make the point concrete and more understandable by forming an image in your mind.
The cookie analogy works not because classical music is like cookies, but because it helped get across the point that just because something is good in context does not mean that it is just as good alone or in great amounts.
Come away with this: conclusions never come from analogies. Analogies are just tools to help get across a point. Therefore, poking holes in analogies is not a valid way to argue.
Evan Butler
Not him but what you did with analogies was reiterate your earlier, very simple statement without expanding on it.
Joshua Phillips
Because he's AutisticSound and he has a reputation to keep
Ryan Wright
end of threadly reminder that music theory is a contrafact with zero historical relevance
James Bennett
Agreed
Christopher Baker
read Schopenhauer, the art of being right
William Collins
Autistic sound is a permanent reminder that some people will attach themselves to an illogical conclusion out of pure vanity, even if it’s terrible. Seriously. Nobody wants to hear a Beethoven symphony at half the speed, nor a Beethoven sonata, or anything else.
The part that always gets me is when they start to bring out the “pace of life” argument. Oh yes, I completely forgot, trains weren’t invented yet. Certainly, that must mean that music could be played at half the speed and not seem slow at all.
What a bunch of loonies.
Liam Walker
Could anyone help me identify this piece please? I've been looking in my folders and now I'm wondering if it's even classical at all. voca.ro/99gbPjj4ElN
Hunter Barnes
This is so dumb. Yes, I don't tell people to listen to serial music (or even romantic or classical music btw). Not because it's bad, I just know it's not what they like. They are into drumbeats, repeating basslines and chord progressions, "hooks", different rythms. The music of Chopin or Tchaikovsky is closer to what "normies" are used to, that's why some people think it's a good idea to recommend them. It has nothing to do with the "objective" quality of the music. But this should be self-evident, it's kinda weird it needs to be explained to you.
No, just stop, the food analogy is terrible. At least find something that's purely art, not a biological need. That'll be a shitty analogy too because every art form is inherently different, but somewhat less shitty.
Jonathan Ramirez
>Seriously. Nobody wants to hear a Beethoven symphony at half the speed. well, Cobra wants to
Gavin Clark
>what a dumb argument! >no I won’t refute it, what are you crazy?
I don’t recommend normies Chopin or Tchaikovsky, because it is nowhere as great as Beethoven and Mozart, which i recommend more to normies because of its direct appeal. Many of my friends came around to Beethoven after I showed them Waldstein.
>implying that i like that shit You're the dumbest piece of shit in this thread. Everybody hates you here and want to fuck off. You bring nothing but fuck to these threads. People ignore you because they don't want to encourage you.
Owen Cooper
Not him but no one PIazzolla is "classical" by the skin of his teeth, and even then only to peripherals (guitarists).
Joshua Clark
I know, I just fucking hate the fucking nerve of that guy. Biggest piece of shit in this general. Have some fucking slack. The funny thing is that I don't particularly Plazzolla. I just thought that it was ok that the guy posted it here. This thread have had so many posts of fruitless and destructive discussion anyways. If this guy is going to complain about some borderline classical music, I am going to complain about all the dumb and destructive posting here. Because I think that is much worse.
Blake Campbell
>It would be one thing if dissonancefags were like “guys, this stuff is great! You HAVE to listen to it? It’s worth it, I promise!” Shut the fuck up. Modern classical is a secret club and we don’t want you in it.
Aaron Ross
New
Juan Martin
Secret Clubs are always autistic, you say it like it's something good.
