Portugal had 0 titles before Ronaldo, but now it has 2

Yeah, its not.
Football is not how pretty you manage the ball, no matter how you fags want it to be.
Go watch freestyle or jugglers and leave the sport.

who is the GOAT then, Ramos? No one has more titles than him, and he has all the important ones, most of them more than once.

Its not black or white, you insufferable manchild.
You cant properly evaluate the influence of a player in a play, a match, a team and a tournament, you only guide yourself by flair.
You fags should invent a new football sport, where you mash up all the flairy fags together without defenders or goalkeepers and they take turns attacking each other.

If it's not black or white, then it's clearly Messi. Has won everything with Barça, carried them to a treble and a few UCLs, has scored more goals than anyone without being a striker and is the most complete player in the world.
You can't properly evaluate the influence of a player only looking at stats and title counts.

Friendly exhibition cups count now?

>carried a team with seven BACK TO BACK EURO CHAMPIONS AND WORLD CUP WINNERS
>they retire he suddenly is a shell of his former self
>plays in one of the most condecorated NTs and fails miserably
>loses two finals against a country which has never even won a trophy until then
>plays in one of the most rich teams in the world
You sure they needed him to carry them?
This is my last reply, since its obvious you are an underage fanboy.

You can dispute its prestige or importance but a title is a title, of which Ronaldo has won 2 (two) and Messi 0 (zero)

Doesnt its winner gets a place in the EURO?
I hardly call that friendly.

Can I please be reminded why we’re considering the Nations League title to be a major win now, all of a sudden? Nobody took it seriously when it was getting started in the group stages etc. It certainly has no business being mentioned in the same breath as a Euro Title or a WC, lmao. This is the Carling Cup of international play (at best). Doesn’t really impact any legacy debate IMO.

>>carried a team with seven BACK TO BACK EURO CHAMPIONS AND WORLD CUP WINNERS
Puyol retired in 2014, Xavi in 2015, Cesc was never the same player at barça than he was at the NT and Villa neither. Yet Barça continued winning the league every year and got a UCL without Xavi on the pitch, and Messi had to go to deep position and play more as a playmaker than an attacking player. Because he is that good, he can do both.
>a shell of his former self
that still scores the most goals throughout Europe and gives a lot of assists while organizing his team and creating chances for himself, and being more regular than any other player in the world.
>plays in one of the most condecorated NTs
2 WCs and not even that much Copas Americas, people overrate Argentina. Even though, carried a shit generation to a WC final.
>plays in one of the most rich teams in the world
good players play for good teams, how is that even a bad thing?
Nice try, lad, but you haven't given even one argument yet.

Landon Donovan won some Gold Cups. I would never call him a more accomplished international player than Messi.

Messi has an olympic gold medal, if you count the Nations League you have to count that as well.
>You can dispute its prestige or importance but a title is a title

Not one single fact, only opinions.
Typical fanboy.
>not much copa americas
They have 14. Thanks for proving how much of a casual you are.
You can keep SEETHING at Ronaldo now, the best player in the world.

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>underage competitions
You can count the prestigious one match cup Copa San Juan they won last night against the powerhouse of Nicaragua, wont change the fact that he is a system babby and a perennial choker, unlike the best player in the world, Ronaldo.

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and you have 15, does that make you a football powerhouse? How hasn't Suarez not won a WC yet if he plays for such a condecorated NT?
You have posted only opinions too.
And don't get me wrong, Ronaldo is a great player, maybe even a top 10 player in history, but he is miles away from Messi. He doesn't have Messi's talent, he doesn't have Messi's importance, he doesn't get close to Messi's numbers and he is a poacher while Messi controls more areas of the game.

How is Ronaldo not a perennial choker? I only remember one final in which he did something relevant, the UCL one against Juve.

Whats the mystery? It should be clear if you watch the games. They mostly did the same, the only difference was some random shitters scored blooters in Ronaldo's finals

>Pele didn't win a European Cup (didnt even play in Europe)
That's not lacking. Brasilian league was probably one of the top leagues in the world at the time so why would he even go to Europe in the first place?
He carried them to back-to-back Intercontinental cups against European champions, btw.

Of course we are a powerhouse.
4 world championships and 15 continental titles. A poor country with a population of 3 million claims with those titles is an obvious powerhouse.
Is Suarez a GOAT candidate too?

>talent
Talent is not everything, you need balls to win things
>dominance
Against laliga shitter. Its been three years in a row since he failed to dominate a rival in a KO stage having a tremendous lead. Its his trademark.
He has the talent to be the best, he lacks the determination, the balls, the mental aspect of the game is as important as the rest.

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Talent is not everything but its the most important thing. All the players with a lot of balls and no talent are amateurs or semi pro.
>against la liga shitters
that Ronaldo couldn't dominate.

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no

Barça before Messi: 1 european cup and dominated by Real Madrid in la liga
Barça after Messi: 5 european cups and dominates Real Madrid in la liga

>la 10 de argentina bajo a defender para aguantar un cero a cero

being argentinian against messi is a mental disease

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messi is the better player and it's not close
eder scoring does not change that

I would say after Xavi/Iniesta/Messi

how many titles did Xavi have from 1998 to 2006?

>xavi
>iniesta

except add in world and euro cups

Yes, they dont know shit right.
Tell them about their NT.

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But Barça still dominates La Liga with Xavi and Iniesta gone.

NT is more impressive since you dont get to buy the best team mates.

Ronaldo hasn't done anything in finals with the NT nor have done anything at WCs

um excuse me I think you'll find he did a lot of pointless gesturing on the touchline to look like he was involved

The thing is that you have to reduce all of football to the EURO and not including the EURO final to make Ronaldo look like he's better than Messi. You just like him better, I don't understand the reason to be honest, but it's your personal opinion. Most people don't think like you, though, and that's for a reason.

Messi is the GOAT simple as, no amount of twisting of stats, titles, teammates will convince me or others otherwise

Beckenbauer won it all. Leagues and national cups, cup winners cup, european champions cup/CL, intercontinental cup, world cup (as player and as coach), Euro

What happened to the european domination?
Portugal is shit, unlike Argentina, and he managed to win a euro and a nations league
>muh finals
Are these one match tournaments?Of course i like him better. When you think they are done for he somehow shows up and performs unlike Messi that when they are done for he dissappears without trace.

Cristiano is not even as good as Beckbenbauer. Beckenbauer is one of the players in the elite category along with Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Di Stefano, and Puskas. Just watching the way Cristiano performs on a weekly basis is laughable. The guy outside of tap-in range looks like a Division 2 player and anyone claiming he is in the top category in history has to be trolling. For the better part of the decade now he's stumbled on himself, can't dribble, his passing is nonexistant, and he's back to diving like he was in his United days - probably because he's not allowed to stand in the box anymore like in Madrid and he realizes he doesn't have the ability to beat more than 1 player like any of the GOATs listed above.

Ronaldinho won it all in SA and Europe

If Messi had the will to work out the way Ronaldo does just to prolong his career ON TOP LEVEL, not just to prolong it by playing in china after 33 for a last paycheck or returning to some home team to go easy, I would agree Messi is better. But his work ethic is minimum.

His talent passing dribbling is much better than Ronaldo's but c'mon. One of them seems to get worse year after year on important matches and on mentality.
Yes, I know, he scored more on La Liga but honestly, it was won from November, how are those goals important?
Also, yeah, disappearing in the final after you did everything possible in the matches before is unironically possible. You guys talk about finals like the opposition is a meme and the only reason that match is being played is for Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi to prove at Yea Forums autists that they are the best of the best.

Maldini is the thinking mans GOAT but nobody rates defenders

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>Hattrick vs Switzerland from a long shot on the opposite bottom corner of the goal, a free kick from a quite a long range and a penalty he won himself

>Lmao what a division 2 bruh.

Landon Donovan accomplished more than Messi in the international stage, simple as
You're right