What's the sp consensus on valverde as a coach?

this. i could manage barca as long as messi and suareth are playing.

brainlet post but then again how can a headless poster have a brain

Would like to see Peps and Klopps do this with Bilbao

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Supercopa_de_España

Or reach a UEFA Cup final with the almighty Espanyol.

Did Pep ever lose 3-4 at home to the mighty Betis?

>field Messi
>win

brilliant mind

Literally relegation fodder but it works because MESSI and friends are old as shit and cant be bother to play cryuff ball.

>tfw the migthy Betis is the only team this season to beat Barcelona at home

Based Benis

>won more for Bilbao that Kloop ever won for liverpool in the same time

He's good dealing with superstars and keeping a good environment in the locker room.

Other than that he is pretty bad. What pisses me off the most is that he barely gives opportunities to players from the youth academy.

>They win despite him, not because of him
that's the case with many managers
the players win games, they are the ones who push the ball into the goal

i'll allow you to say la masía

masia without tilde

>What pisses me off the most is that he barely gives opportunities to players from the youth academy.
His job is to win games

Why didn't he win against Roma?

He did, then he lost too

he's a defensive minded coach and a worse version of mourinho. the only difference between the two is that mou didn't have messi to bail him out every time. he had the dabbing nigger.

he is unable to win tactically against any other coach with worse players unless he has messi. his track record shows it. only managing one lucky win without the argentine. and almost losing more than a dozen times when he rested him, even against relegation fodder.
anybody can win when you have the best forward in the world parking the bus and countering. it's why barca struggles against small teams and win against big (Roma, Man Utd). big teams hold possession allowing his stupid tactic to work. small teams allow barca possession and since he has not a single positive tactic besides pass the ball to messi and hope for the best, on days when Messi can't shoulder the weight of his shitty teammates, barca cannot win

Non-spaniards wouldn't understand

Taken from another forum

>Barcelona has a lot of aging players. Pique, Busquets, Rakitic, Messi and Suarez are all 30 and over. That's half the starting XI. Unlike many teams though; Barca's aging squad has tons and tons of technical quality. Forwards have excellent striking and passing technique, midfielders have elite level passing, triangulation and game-reading ability, and the defensive personnel are so adequate on the ball in addition to being defensively capable, that they could play further forward with minimal problems. Last night, Barcelona set up to maximize their strengths (technical excellence and game-readership) and mask flaws (lessened physical capacity for one). And boy, did they do it well.

>I was fortunate to follow Valverde closely when he was at Athletic Bilbao (a team I absolutely adore). I recall Ander Herrera saying that while he's played under Bielsa, Mourinho and Louis Van Gaal; the smartest coach he's ever played for is Ernesto. In his words, "he knows precisely when to attack and when not to."

>Valverde is a pragmatic manager who's very selective in the sequences he allows to play out on the pitch (both with regard to his team and the opponent). What most people don't understand is that being able to control the defensive and offensive sequences of both the opponent and yourself is perhaps the greatest form of control a manager can have. This is regardless of what the possession stats say. Mastering the art of baiting the opponent to concentrate their ball circulation is useless areas of the pitch, and thus have them build up a false sense of confidence and security takes genuine genius. It still hasn't dawned on Klopp and his horde of Liverpool supporters just how badly they were mugged off yesterday. And it's going to happen again next week.

>Wanna hear something else? Bar Pep Guardiola; Ernesto Valverde is the most complete and tactically astute manager in world football. He's a level above Klopp and the other hyped up managers.

Valverde has never been known for being particularly innovative. If anything, he's a boringly reliable conservative manager who does the bare minimum to win.
This conservatism has served him fairly well this season, and in the past. He's never set the world alight, but he's done well in Greece and at Bilbao. No big ups, but also no big downs.
The cons are that-
1) that makes him boring. At a surface level, Barcelona is still a passing team, but hardly the pressure machines they were under Guardiola.
2) He's often too scared to touch anything, The insistence on playing with the same 11 last season game after game, and his extreme reluctance to make substitutions until around the 89th minute meant that the players were absolutely knackered for the Roma away match.
All in all, he will probably be fondly remembered for his titles, his many uninteresting matched will be forgotten, and will be fired any season he doesn't win a big title, as usual. And there won't be a huge fan outcry either.

Everybody knows la masia autist

>will be fired any season he doesn't win a big title
barça doesn't work the same way as madrid
if he ended a season with no titles I'm sure they'd still give him another year to redeem himself, and then probably sack him if he had another shit year

also guardiola set a new bar for barça managers in collective memory, one that I doubt anyone will ever top no matter how well they do

>if he ended a season with no titles I'm sure they'd still give him another year to redeem himself
Tell that to Tata. Since 2008/09 he's the only manager to have a year without a major title (if you consider the Cup as major) and he was gone after one season

If he was a big fan favorite, sure. He isn't. People isn't filling the stadium and the media is criticizing him for being boring and never picking anybody from the Masia.
Tata left after a season with no titles, Lucho after a season with only a Copa del Rey. And he was way more beloved than Valverde.

fair enough but Valverde has already won two Ligas and a Copa del Rey, and is on his way to win a treble this year; tata was fired cause he did jack shit in his first year while valverde has solidified himself as a winning manager even if the team doesn't play very well, or as well as we're used to

Like the guy above said; no matter how much he wins he will always be disliked for being boring, which makes a difference. Seeing as Barcelona are already poaching from Ajax they could easily go after Ten Hag if they lose in the final to them

He is certainly no Indian, that's for sure! Not even a macaco either, so he's OK in my book

you make good points but still I think they wouldn't get rid of him like that
but what do I know

Why wouldn't they? Barcelona know that their squad is old as shit and this is their window. They don't have time to go years without titles

i dunno user cause I'm a romantic and I don't like the idea of kicking someone out the second they fail to win absolutely every single thing
yes I know it's stupid

Reminder that Tata quit, wasn't fired

Pep quit too, as did Enrique. People usually quit if they feel like they might get fired in order to save face for both parties

I am a romantic, and I believe that Barcelona should have a manager that wants to play Total Football, and give minutes to the homegrown players, and run some risks.

That's subjective

I guess, but I don't see what your point is. Everyone knows Tato was shit and they wanted rid of him

Yeah, under Rosell and Barto, all the managers "quit" voluntarily.

>and give minutes to the homegrown players
Like who? Alena or Puig? Not everyone is going to be Busquets. When the board spends 140 million dollars on a player, you have to play them.

Pep quit because he had nothing left to do here. He'd won everything, he'd written his name in the football history books. He beat the game, it was the right time to go somewhere else

That's half the reason why. The other half is the Barcelona board expected him to control every aspect of the club and the stress was killing him

Attached: Pep 2008 2012.jpg (755x255, 32K)

imo the main reason he is not particularly liked by barca fans is his approach to any public statement. no matter who he plays against he is always hyping the opposition up and makes sure he highlights their strongest / most dangerous pros. he never acts cocky. i honestly believe that this attitude is the result of having managed lesser spanish teams and thus had to actually study la liga teams and not just obliterate them like barca tends to do. as for his inability to make serious and fast changes to the formation when struggling, i remember many barca players and even him at some point stating that the core idea is to do the things they do well until they work. so if he is struggling to create chances he would most likely do nothing until the 75th minute just to make sure he gave them enough time

But that's my problem... Pep took a complete unknown like Busquets and made him into the teams linchpin exclusively out of merit, regardless of how expensive the other midfielders were.
Valverde wouldn't. Not ever.
Valverde wants experienced 30 year olds who just do their job. That's his thing.

Now that Barca are about to win the treble, it's time to make a version of this about Valverde

Attached: 1519767481304.png (1123x1160, 142K)

Pep quit because he and Rosell hated each other's guts.
Don't believe me? In an interview after he left the Club, Rosell said that Guardiola was "a bad person" ("El Pep és un gran entrenador, però una mala persona"). Not a joke.

however the decision to take out coutinho who wasnt bringing much to the team and bring in semedo to defend better is the main reason liverpool didnt capitalize on their chances. while it didnt seem like it changed anything at the moment, looking back it is clear that even though liverpool still managed to get more of the ball and create more chances upfield they were never really that dangerous, bar that mo salah post. he may as well have gotten in the final with this single change. but you will never hear him gloat about it or even mention it. he just says anfield is strong and we have a tough match.

>Pep took a complete unknown like Busquets and made him into the teams linchpin exclusively out of merit, regardless of how expensive the other midfielders were.
The climate of football is not the same. Coutinho and Dembele are top 3 most expensive players of all time. Barcelona didn't have anyone like that in 2008. Also It's not like Pep decided to make him elite. Busquets had the ability; there's no guarantee the current academy players do. You can't just expect to grow all time greats on a consistent basis

The climate of football was very different in 2008, with Mourinho being touted as the world's greatest manager and most clubs trying to go for the big, athletic guys. People said that small midfielders like Iniesta and Xavi couldn't play together because you needed a physical presence in the midfield.

Guardiola changed all that. And a less pragmatic coach than Valverde would too.

Catala press liked Tata because the team played well

Tata was unlucky with injuries

>dude pass the ball to me LMAO

Messi is a meme coach too. He would be a loser without himself.

That's a huge overstatement. Barcelona are more like the exception. United won the CL in 2008 without anyone more physical than a Barcelona player. Chelsea had Mata and Lampard. Madrid had Khedria, Modric and Di Maria etc. Even Iniesta and Xavi had won a CL before Pep.

Catalan here.

No, I'm sorry. Tata was considered pretty plain and a bit outdated as a manager (while most European managers use technology like tablets, he was still using pen and notepads, for instance)

Nice guy and all, but pretty much considered a mistake.

the manger of the best players does it again, genius

I read Sport and MundoDeportivo every day, they were sucking Tata dick the entire season

I guess Pep and Klopp are shit too.

I listened to the radio who are less tied to the Club. They weren't.

>le pass it to messi man

>Even Iniesta and Xavi had won a CL before Pep.
Xavi didn't play that final.

He played in the league up. Deco, Edmilson and Van Bommel is the kind of Midfield that Pep would use

lead up*

>United won the CL in 2008 without anyone more physical than a Barcelona player
>Tevez
>Cristiano
>Evra
>Vidic
>Ferdinand

What a bunch of scrubs

Not a Cruyffian manager at all

I thought we were just talking about the midfield, should we not consider Eto'o, Puyol, Yaya, Pique, Alves etc then?

The midfield that wasn't there when he took over?

cruyff though has gone on the record saying he would prefer valverde over pep, before pep was appointed obviously.

I was talking about the style of players, obviously they were getting older and shitter at that point. Barcelona manager won't be calling for Messi to play when he's 40
Because Valverde had 5 years of experience at top level and no one knew if Pep was good. It was the safe choice, and probably the smart choice without hindsight

Everyone shits on him but with him Barcelona has become a much more balanced team and in paper and stats he looks pretty good
I don't know what to think, the team works with him, but is it the team or is he actually a silent genius?

you can give them more credit when they create most of the team

Whoever said Pep left because he and the president hated each other was right.
The president started firing anyone associated with Cruyff and he made some decisions with transfers that Pep was furious about
Look at Pep now at City, don't know why the president would interfere with a manager who knows exactly what he's doing

Most of the players in the starting 11 of each are from after the two were appointed

If messi sub out messi then who would take the blame? Would that be messi for subbing messi out or messi for not fighting hard to get play time?

pretty big brain post

based

You are probably right but even so that makes him at least partially Cruyff-ian in the way he approaches the game . Or at least he was back then.

messi, for messing it up

You watched Barcelona play in the past 2 years? Tell me that it's Cryuff

>It still hasn't dawned on Klopp and his horde of Liverpool supporters just how badly they were mugged off yesterday

Not this one.
>muh fat mutt boogeyman knows nothing about divegrass

That's what I said "or at least was". It is clear he is no longer playing like that but imo that's a side effect of working in >Greece< and low tier la Liga where teams are literally incapable of playing the Barcelona way. Still they must like what he brings to the team even if that is just man management

He's not the kind of manager you would expect at Barcelona but his more conservative, result-based approach is exactly what Barcelona need. He's always been a good and fairly succesful manager considering the stature of his previous clubs. Probably, the vast majority of the people who criticize him in this thread didn not know him before he was announced as the new Barcelona manager.