Where would prime R9 rank if he played today

*sips* Saw him play as a teenager in eindhoven. Kid was destined for greatness.

Tap ins win games so u gotta #respect it

He was just a striker

Messi is unironically even better at scoring goals though

PR

better than both

Today? Better than Ronaldo but not Messi

Compared to Prime Messi and Prime Ronaldo? Worse than both

>prime Ronaldo wasn't better than prime Tsunaldo

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R9 never scored more than 47 goals in a season; CR7 has done that 6 times

Well if that's your reasoning I guess Messi is the untouchable GOAT for scoring 91 goals in a year and the only one worthy of being mentioned on the same breath as him is Gerd Müller.

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And I suppose you're going to explain why a striker scoring less goals makes him better?

Yeah

Ronaldo kept a near 1:1 goal/game ratio at almost every club he played for. Similar to Cristiano at Real Madrid or Messi at Barcelona, except he didn't have a super stacked team behind him with all their world class players willing to sacrifice their numbers for those two. For whatever reason that may be, Ronaldo for the most part only stayed at a club for one year before leaving. And each time, no matter what league he went to or what playstyle (sorry if that word doesn't exist) his team worked under, he'd still maintain that absurd consistency.

We're talking just peak ability here. Longevity wise obviously Cr7 is above him, after all he's way more professional than R9 ever was and he wasn't plagued by career-ending injuries.

>Ronaldo kept a near 1:1 goal/game ratio at almost every club he played for.
He only did that for PSV and Barcelona; Cruzerio is irrelevant and he wasn't close at Milan or Madrid
>didn't have a super stacked team
Yeah let's pretend like he didn't play with guys like Figo and Stoichkov or Pep

By the time he got to Milan he wasn't even a shadow of his former self. At Real Madrid you could still see some brilliance every now and then but he had already left his best days behind him then.

>Yeah let's pretend like he didn't play with guys like Figo and Stoichkov or Pep
I didn't say he didn't play for super teams, I said those teams weren't formed with the purpose to babysit him like Barcelona and Real Madrid did with Messi and Cr7.

Original Ronaldo wins in terms of pure talent. Cristiano is a machine, Ronaldo is natural.

>I didn't say he didn't play for super teams, I said those teams weren't formed with the purpose to babysit him like Barcelona and Real Madrid did with Messi and Cr7
Yeah Barcelona and Madrid are totally more concerned with making Messi and Ronaldo happy rather than winning titles

Defenses have improved so much since he was at peak. Someone like mbappe would be as good as r9 was back then.

>runs towards wall of defenders
>why are my knees so fucked?
The story of R9

If he had access to Dr Fuentes' miracle juice, he would have recovered from his injuries and been the undisputed GOAT.

>R9 never scored more than 47 goals in a season; CR7 has done that 6 times

Hahahahaha... wait omg you're serious

Ronaldo, the real one, also didn't play in an era where failing to win the CL is considered failure for Barca or Real (or now Juve)

In Ronaldo's time, there were at least 10 different clubs with a realistic chance of winning the CLUB every season. Barca winning like 5 league Cup doubles in last 6 years, where the LEAST expectation of Barca is the league, such that even winning it season after season would constitute "failure" for Messi, or Juve winning 8 in a row (first time ever in Serie A history) or Bayern 7 in a row (also first time ever) was unheard of.

Here's a realistic look at the era you're living in- for last 10 seasons either Barca, Bayern or Real have made the CL final every season. As for the "defending" in this era and player protection...

Well let's just say there was a reason 30 goals for the season used to be considered world class back in the day. Watching 10 men forming banks of 4 while an "elite" team with 10x the budget and players worth swarm to create 30 chances per match has really coloured the public's opinion of what football is, it seems

>Defenses have improved so much since he was at peak. Someone like mbappe would be as good as r9 was back then.

This is the most ridiculous comment ever. Really showing your age lad. Present day red card offences were not worth a booking in like 2006, nvm 1996 when sliding through someone from behind was barely given a second glance by the ref most of the time, with or without the ball. Watch how the Dutch stopped him (somewhat) in '98 through means fair and foul and tell me any modern defense could manage this

youtu.be/uomBpHwl-Tk

At around 2: 20, is a classic example of what I'm talking about. That's a red card today, not even a second look back then. Lucky he even gets the foul

Ronaldo's level in that semifinal against a legendary Dutch team though is something Cristiano can only dream of achieving and Messi only does against the likes of Eibar or Espanyol

At a time and era Zidane, Rivaldo, Bergkamp etc were all at their peak or nearabouts, Ronaldo was universally accepted as being a notch above even those legends when fully fit. Truly a phenomenon, you had to see it to believe it. Closest I've seen since is Messi making Iniesta look ordinary at times.

That explains why he has more CL goals...

He is better at scoring hattricks against leganes though

>Well let's just say there was a reason 30 goals for the season used to be considered world class back in the day.
1996-97 La Liga: 2.75 goals per game
2018-19: 2.54

What about 2011-2012?

Based Pajeet laying down the facts

Till is first injury at inter in 1998 after world cup, he scored 40+ goals in 53 matches in Inter, compared to any player at serie a at that time even system babies like del piero or beiroff, that didn't seem to be the case. And Ronaldo was only 21 at that time facing maldini Nesta desailly regularly.

2.76 per game
That's impressive, but you make it sound like everyone scores those sorts of numbers now.
Best goal scoring seasons
Sterling: 23
Hazard: 22
Lukaku: 27
Icardi: 29
Benzema: 32
Griezmann: 32
Aguero: 33
Neymar: 39
Aubameyang: 40
Kane: 41
Lewandowski: 43
You said
>Well let's just say there was a reason 30 goals for the season used to be considered world class back in the day.
But that's exactly the case today. The problem you're having is that for some stupid reason you're taking the extraordinary outliers of Messi and Ronaldo and pushing them to be the standard. If you really think that you have to put up Messi/Ronaldo numbers to be elite then they're the only two elite players in history

Better than poonaldo
Worse than Messi

Messi and CR7 are system babbies who have to rely on the system accommodating them for them to pad their stats. On the international stage where they can't rely on their system they flop badly.

Yeah you're right because systems don't exist at all at the international level. I'm sure if you put someone like Griezmann on San Marino he'd still perform like he did at the world cup

On what grounds could you argue that CR7 is a system baby and El Gordo was not?

> useless stat that literally proves my point

Btw nice to use data from an incomplete season. Otherwise congrats on showing nothing at all by those numbers

Let's see how that actually looks like when analyzed objectively. I'm using 2011-12 as it was Messis highest scoring season and one of Ronaldos best

Goals scored
Real- 121
barca- 114
Valencia- 59
malaga- 54
Atletico- 53
Levante- 54

1996-97
Real- 85
Barca- 102
Deportivo- 57
Betis- 81
Atletico- 76
Athletic- 72
(9th)Tenerife- 69
Valencia- 63

OF COURSE the fact that no other team but Real and Barca manage to score goals at all in thrilling 5-0 demolitions of Levante and co pushes down the average. OF COURSE the fact that teams down in 9th score only 16 less than the champions pushes up the average

Almost like ONLY Messi and Ronaldo can get those bloated numbers in such a system while the fiercely competitive nature of the league in the '90s means individual players have to be at their best to notch up 30 a season when even mid table clubs give such strong competition

Thanks for proving why the Phenomenon is the best ever, retard

Have you ever thought that maybe the reason why they scored so much was because they had the two greatest goalscorers of all time?

First of all, Messi and Ronaldo are clearly great players. Even in the rigged system no one else has scored 50+ goals a season multiple times. They're better (goalscorers) than the rest of their generation although it IS a generation where Mario Gomez gets 40+ goals just by virtue of playing for Bayern

But, as noted they play for teams that as shown above outscore 3rd and 4th place teams put together. They play for clubs where "merely" winning a record 8th consecutive serie A, or a fourth league/cup double in 5 years would constitute "failure" and being turned into a meme for relentless mocking on Yea Forums. They play in a league that has seen either Real or Barca win the title in all but one out of last 15 years, with absolute lowest finish being third. They play in an era where only 5 of last 15 CL finals have NOT featured one or the other and all of the last 10 had either Real, Barca or Bayern in it. To claim that the system is not rigged is just ignoring the facts. The system is so rigged that 3 times going on 4 Italian champions beating Real is somehow a massive upset in 2015, 5 times going on 6 beating Barca in 2017 is somehow a "shock result". Juventus, at a time they are rewriting the serie a record books in yet another example of the broken system, can only hope to "upset" the even more broken Spanish tax evaders

One could also merely rely on the evidence of the eyes and the type of football played in these eras, the kind of defending and number of chances real Ronaldo used to get vs Messi's inability to perform without facing 2 banks of 4 cowering behind Barca's 70% possession and 25 chances a match. Which is one of the reasons Cristiano shouldn't even be in the debate, the poor mans Ruud van Nistelrooy

But even ignoring all that its obvious that Ronaldo's 47 goals was as groundbreaking as Messi's 70+ at the time because of just how far above the average it was. To try to claim Messi and Ronaldo's stats are revolutionary without proper context is just misleading as fuck but to try to use that as an argument for why "Cristiano 65, Fat Ron 47 lol" is just retarded. Cristiano Ronaldo would be lucky to score 20 goals in La Liga 2003-04 for the Galacticos, much less the heydey of Italian Catenaccio in the '90s

I disagree with Ronaldo and Messi being the "greatest goal scorers of all time", they're good, great even, playing for clubs where the worst possible finish is 3rd, they're no Batistuta. But to use stats from 2010s to show they're better than players from '90s is just disingenuous af, and belied by their no better than average international goal scoring ratios among a thousand other things (despite like 20 friendlies a week for that sweet stat bump)

Great player, couldn't keep free of injuries. Literally a fat Bale without a CL.

way to completely overlook his point

You're clearly biased towards Ronaldo and have no interest in actually discussing the possibility. I've already provided multiple examples of how scoring 30+ goals is still very difficult to do at the top level and that Messi and Ronaldo are the exception. I've already explained that the team success of Messi and Ronaldo points to their greatness, not to be used a prerogative. You also refuse to actually provide any stats from Ronaldo's era to compare him to the rest of the pack

I admire your tenacity, my street shitting friend. But it's clear you're just being baited. Don't waste your time with him.

I respect your opinion but as good as r9 was he wasn't even the best brazilian player in the last 30 years

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You didn't provide anything to the argument. You only like Ronaldo because he was born in the same shithole as you were

Agreed, too bad the frogs poisoned him for the final or w/e happened. Was like he wasn't even on the pitch.

I don't need to provide anything. You're that kiwi that's always creating some thread talking shit about Ronaldo, are you not? You're not here to discuss properly nor are you willing to change your views about him.

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I haven't changed my views because nobody has provided compelling information as to why I should, least of all you. Brazilians, like all third worlders, are controlled by their barbarian nationalism. First you say Pele is the GOAT; but when it's a Ronaldinho thread he's the greatest, then it's a Ronaldo thread he's the greatest. You don't care about football; you just want Brazilians to be recognized as the best regardless of whether or not they really are.

Stats from Ronaldos era are easy enough to get. 96-97, top scorer in

EPL- shearer 25
Serie A- inzaghi 24
Bundesliga- Kirsten 22

Ronaldo- 34, a record not to be matched till 2009 in La Liga (30+ goals that is)

Why don't you try explaining why Messi and Cristiano have average international records worse than Ronaldo? Surely the "greatest goal scorers ever" don't need help from their teams or specific systems to similarly obliterate international goal ratios?

Their records with the national team is fine. Their records aren't as good as Ronaldo because Ronaldo played with a better international team; which if you want to say isn't a good enough reason just remember it's the entire basis of your argument as to why Ronaldo is better

>brazil is one person
Wew, lad.

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Every Brazilian is the same

Messi and Ronaldo exception? From 2010s of the top of my head, 40+ goal seasons

Gomez
Lewandowski
Salah
Suarez
Kane
Zlatan
Cavani

Players who scored 45+ goals in the 90s other than Ronaldo in top 5 leagues? Literally nobody

> just fine

Wait a sec. So the "greatest goal scorers ever" somehow magically transform to "just fine" for their national teams

So now your argument is

> Cristiano having better stats than Ronaldo at club level, ignoring all changes in the game, proves he's better. At the same time, Ronaldo having better stats at international level only proves he plays for a better team

Do you even listen to yourself? Clearly Tarrant killed all the wrong Kiwis

The reason Messi got the 2010 ballon dor is precisely because of this. He scored around 53 goals and 24 assist and it was unheard of. People undervalue the significance of this, he fucking smashed who many considered the greatest scorer of all time

The whole argument being that Barcelona and Madrid's domination is BECAUSE of Messi and Ronaldo, not Messi and Ronaldo's stats being padded because of Barca and Madrid's dominantion

However Messi and Ronaldo's poorer international stats are BECAUSE of Argentina and Portugal, not because of Messi and Ronaldo being unable to transform the teams to hegemons like they apparently did to Barca and Real

Just SAD and PATHETIC

He certainly did with the backbone of a new type of football that had smashed all existing football records ever with a clean sweep of 6 trophies, not to mention most of Spain 2008 champion spine

There were like 4 trebles total in first 50 years of CL, and 4 in the 10 odd since. Certainly become a whole lot easier to "smash" existing records

Don't try and insult Del Piero you fucking maderchod, he was a graceful player beyond your iq.

Most NPC opinion about football that people love to parrot like sheep

I think Ronaldinho gets overrated a lot because of the same reasons Giggs and Scholes do - he was a relic of a bygone era that had the first exposure to the next gen and internet culture. He was the first internet footballer, whose every trick and spin was replayed 10 times over around the world, he was the first true footballer with a fan(boy)club and he has that whole burning out / romantic wild talent thing going for him

Don't get me wrong, definitely the best of his time but his contemporaries were far closer to him than peak Ronaldo's, especially Henry who because he played for an English club gets scrutinized and put down far more than the exotic foreign samba magician. In reality Ronaldinho was great, one of the greatest but he was surrounded by greatness and though more showy, did not really surpass Zidane's peak in my opinion, which itself was lesser than Ronaldo's

Plus on a number of occasions even at his peak, he was contained by well organized defences and had a tendency to lack in final product

Ronaldinho's peak 03-05 although short was more fruitful than r9s by accomplishing more for his club than ronaldo ever did at his prime and zidane great player as he was was never a patch on those two at their peak

>why do people put the greatest goalscorer of all time in any discussion

>not Messi and Ronaldo's stats being padded because of Barca and Madrid's dominantion

But here it shows Barcelona dominating La Liga the same way, what makes it different? other teams scoring more goals too?

It depends if he insisted on breaking his crystal knees.

yes its as if Gerd Muller wasn't the greatest player ever before him

Comparing club achievement is somewhat misleading, as it is over a period of 32 long matches.

Among other things. Also the fact that Barca finished 2 points behind Real and only 13 ahead of 3rd whereas in 2011-12 (when they were second) they were 30 (THIRTY) ahead of third

Also the season itself was an anomaly. In 95-96
Atletico- 75
Valencia- 77
Barca- 72
Real- 75

97-98
Barca-78
Atheltic- 52
Sociedad-60
Real-63

So it was only the one time Ronaldo in his prime rewrote the record books that one team outscored the others so measurably. Whereas the Messi Ronaldo era sees Barca and Real break (their own) goal scoring records almost annually