Why is A Love Supreme regarded so highly...

You're mad because you know you're really wasting your time by placing such high importance on a genre that doesn't truly matter in the greater scheme of things. Again it's enjoyable and technically impressive music for the background but it doesn't make for as significant albums as other genres that can truly influence culture, society, and self.

>VU and Nico,
Look mom! Drugs and sex!!!!!
>ITAOTS,
Anne Frank ;(((
>Blonde on Blonde,
Probably just a bunch of nonsense bullshit like usual
>OKC,
Muh computers bad ;(
>36 Chambers
We watch martial arts film also the hood bad ;(
Wow, so this is the power of pop music?

Sure if you devolve it to the simplest form possible. And even then when you reduce it to one sentence nonsense statements they still convey more than a music form that's limited to 0 in real communication ability. Beyond the performance itself jazz just comes up empty. Music is so much bigger than how technically impressive it is to play and pick apart and understand. Other genres do more to inspire, influence, educate, give different perspectives, and create conversations.

>music can convey emotions but without words it can't truly make statements unless the artist does it outside of the art.
fuck statements. Autechre is better than all of that bullshit you just listed off and none of their music has lyrics

absolute brainlet tier
I'm sorry you need someone to literally tell you what you're supposed to take away from music, you're missing out on the whole upper tier of abstract thinking there chief

What you're doing is fantasizing about nothing. Nothing is truly there. You might as well be on shrooms staring at wall seeing complex patterns and shapes that don't really matter because they're exclusive to your own perspective. There's abstract lyrics that can have just as much power as direct ones. But language is the most powerful tool at our disposal and jazz doesn't make use of that at all or contribute to the greater conversation.

when it comes to music, sound is the most powerful tool

I disagree with that. Most necessary element to be music sure, but sound can never be more powerful than the spoken language because that's composed of sound in addition to what we've mutually come to agree and understand each aspect of language communicates.

If I wanted good lyrics I'd read a book

you should just read poetry then. as lyrics are also interpreted by the listener by the same mechanisms as your 'fantasizing.' the feelings and conversations they spark are exclusive to your own individual filters

kek, what a pleb you are

>there are people on Yea Forums who post shit like this unironically

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words can't say or express the things that pure sound can. you must have low standards anyway considering the albums you listed as an example of the power or language, if that's the best there is then lyricism is truly fucked.

It's not one or the other. Plus it's worth noting that due to the lack of sound there's limits to tone, which is another aspect of communication. But they're also a lot more extensive than song lyrics so that's a definite advantage. The fact that so few people these days consume books hurts the medium though, music undoubtedly has more cultural and social importance today than literature.

But not to the degree just sound is and that's the point. Of course everything in life beyond your own raw thoughts and emotions has to be filtered by your individual interpretation.

>Plus it's worth noting that due to the lack of sound there's limits to tone
what the fuck are you talking about? sound design is pretty much infinite. you don't even need to go down the rabbit hole of electronic music to figure that out, listen to MCD, Pan Sonic, Autechre, Luomo, Aphe Twin and you'll see what i mean.

>he feelings and conversations they spark are exclusive to your own individual filters
yes, and pure sound craft does that 100 times better.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm saying those albums are examples of the greatest complexity of lyrics that humans are capable of when what I'm arguing goes beyond that. It's not just about using sophisticated lyrics or making the most profound statements about life.

maybe for you but that is absolutely not universal.
if anything I and many others find lyrics often detract from a song once I pay attention to how shitty they are
vocal focused music is lowest common denominator, as everyone can empathize with it.
gets it

>It's not just about using sophisticated lyrics or making the most profound statements about life.
so what's it about? remember that complexity doesn't correlate with good in any way.

Lyrics are literally the least important part of music.

for me, this album evokes a feeling of coming into contact with a higher plane of existence. it makes me feel miniscule and powerless as a human in a vast universe. my favorite part is the melody in Resolution. I love this album so goddamn much, but I also really love his later works. idk, just don't worry so much about what other people think

they way you talk severely undercuts the vast expressionism available through music, which is much more than what is available through written language imo. it's sad that you have to be given a message to find meaning

>ignores all the other bullshit in this thread
Well OP, if there’s one thing I personally think this album has that others of his don’t quite have, it’s immaculate pacing. It has a structure that’s incredibly organic but that has immense structure under scrutiny. Nothing feels out of place or slapdash: it is an execution of a concrete thought from an improvisational launching point.

This nigga right

I almost feel sorry for you in a way. You're stuck at the most denotational level of interpretation where the only things that matter are what's said explicitly. You kind of remind me of aspies who interpret everything in the most literal sense possible so they don't get to appreciate great works of literature.

This, user deserves to go deaf.

You’re acting like I said you can ONLY express through language. All I’m saying is that it adds another dimension to your ability to convey and jazz/classical elitists consistently disregard that. I still agree you can find meaning without lyrics but at the same time it severely limits the extent of the statements you can make through your music. I will admit I was being intentionally hyperbolic in my initial posts by calling it just background music to provoke a reaction. But I do think when coloring the best jazz albums to the best albums in other genres they’re more limited in their emotional power (specifically after the listening experience) as well as their cultural/social interaction. And not just because jazz is less popular today.

Which ones do you like the most?

i know this is probably just bait and all, but i somewhat unironically agree with you. jazz makes less of an actual statement because it’s entirely instrumental (normally). however, this doesn’t mean it has less value as a genre. what it still communicates is an emotion and a feeling. it does this in a way that words can’t articulate. and it sounds absolutely beautiful and touches the soul. i normally don’t care for instrumental music and i focus a lot on lyrics, but i make an exception for jazz.

I never said that explicit written/spoken language was all that mattered, otherwise I’d just stick to poems and books and never listen to music. I think jazz/classical elitists are much closer to saying language has no power in music than I am to saying that the music itself conveys nothing.

You implied as much when you said that the worth of jazz can be reduced merely to its technical construction, which is untrue. It's one thing to say that you personally don't get anything out of it and another to make the sort of claims you made in your first post. You wouldn't be alone in preferring music to have lyrical content but you're forgetting that music is itself a language that transmits ideas through familiarity, tropes, convention, etc. much in the same way that a spoken language does. This has been somewhat lost in popular music but more technically oriented instrumental music, like jazz and classical, familiarity with the language leads to greater understanding and appreciation.

This is so szechuan sauce tier epic.

Amazing how whenever ANY criticism at all is assayed towards jazz or, pardon my French, "Negro Art," a bunch of nobodies will come out of the woodwork who have no knowledge on theory, structure or style and attempt to stifle said opposition. I personally have been in a statewide professional-level jazz ensemble, and have composed a variety of big band/swing tunes in my free time; I still fucking abhor jazz. Improvisation is a lost art, because it's original purpose was to automate the composition process internally; hence why most theory classes teach you sonata form. Unfortunately, improvisation in the modern era amounts to little more than picking notes out of a key and - regardless of flow, cadence, or adherence to tropes - play completely random notes without any semblance of a care, all of which is then compartmentalized under the catch-all term "soul."

What a crock of shit. There are going to be Yea Forums users who read this and accuse me of being a poptimistic edgelord who literally has never listened to jazz in his life, and I implore insects like you to go suck off the nigger busking at your university corner. John Coltrane, Peter Broztmann and Sun Ra are all just as untalented and irrelevant to the broader musical canon than some homeless cunt with a few empty barrels and wooden sticks that has a faint inclination towards middle-school tier polyrhythms.

My favorite jazz album is Thembi btw

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Ok retard

Abhorrence of jazz is kind of over the top but I hear what you're saying. Improvisation is so important and I don't think it has been respected the way it deserves in hundreds of years.
On a personal note, I want to play is structured improvisation isn't corny jam band fucking ii-V noodling or some hip-hop thing that's trying way too hard to be trendy, but nobody wants to listen to the other person that intently or, God forbid, take any kind of stylistic risk. I'm beginning to suspect I'll find more desirable results from casual laymen than professionally declared "musicians" or "artists".

Do you like Southern Death Cult?

Checking them out now, they're nice. Thanks for the recommendation

>I’m going to lie on the Internet now
Just stop user... you lost...

And I acknowledged here that I was baiting to a degree with the hyperbole in my very first post. My main point is that there's an elitism around jazz and classical music that ignores the value of spoken/written language accompanying music and promotes the idea that technical complexity is all that matters. I can appreciate jazz for what is is but I think other genres offer more dimensions by including language that combined with the music itself leave you with more to take away after the listening experience beyond the raw construction of the piece. Voice and language are also unique among individuals and so they provide an additional element of personality to music as well which is cool.

Hip-hop sucks. Grow the fuck up.

lol what instrument did you play in your all state high school jazz band fag

I play trombone you absolute scum-sucking nigger-fucking cretin, now get the fuck off my board

that explains everything enjoy life friend

Are you attempting to offend me?

I honestly can't stand these pretentious faggots who have never touched an instrument in their life and wanna talk about how this or the black saint are "the best jazz album ever" like bitch if you don't play jazz your opinion doesn't fucking matter. People who say that can't even give you much reason, they make up some bullshit story about the album and how it makes them feel but they can't explain why jazz album x is better than y
Also I'm not saying you can't like jazz if you don't play it obviously you can like whatever you want but don't be out here talking about the greatest albums you fucking shill. Stop looking at rym and make up your own fucking opinion
>inb4 what about rock and other genres
well obviously rock and most other genres are not that complicated to play so being knowledgable in those things doesn't matter that much
Rock and other genres also rarely emphasize technicality and compositional complexity as much as jazz so yeah

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nope. I was wondering how you came to your conclusions and I got the answer

>muh complexity
music is subjective and everyone who isn't in high school knows that
if Black Saint and A Love Supreme resonate with so many people so strongly, whether they can play instruments or not, clearly there is something special about them that goes beyond the instruments.

yes music is subjective but opinions are relative
To me the opinion of a jazz musician has so much more value than that of some artsy fartsy internet critic
There's a difference between "I like this album the most" and "this is better than any other album" and when it's about the latter the opinion of someone who doesn't know shit about jazz itself has little relevance

It's pasta, you dumbass

way to contradict yourself retard

bump

the intellectualization of jazz was a mistake

le trombone man

I will tell you exactly why.
It's because of the "A Love Supreme" vocal chant, and it's because the tenor sax "cracks" at times while reaching higher notes, kind of like a human voice would. And that's it.
People who listen to hardly any jazz at all listen to this first, and there's those two elements they can latch on to and remember afterwards.

Look at pic related. 18,000 reviews on rym, compared to everything else. Vocal jazz doesn't sound like the conceptualization of "jazz" that's in a non-jazz listener's head, but this gives them just enough of a vocal element that a total beginner will easily latch on to.
Don't get me wrong, ALS is a fine record, but it's also become a genre tourist meme. Coltrane has better albums than this.

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You’re a retard and you should feel bad.

Obvious bait

Music says what words cannot. You can convey emotions just as well if not better with music

Refute it jazzniggers

So you hate talentless hacks, not jazz. Fair enough, I wouldn't consider Coltrane talentless though.

techwalla.com/articles/how-to-delete-a-Yea Forums-post

ill reply to bait just this once for (You)

Emotions yes. But without words you’re limited in the statements you can make, the conversations you can open up, the kind of cultural impact you can have beyond music.

>music can convey emotions but without words it can't truly make statements unless the artist does it outside of the art.

no fucking shit asswipe, the majority of music consumers are fycking stupid and do need to be outright told what to feel. God forbid you actual have to think or revisit something to appreciate it god damn

>trombone
lol a fucking virgin and a liar

Predictable racist edginess. How original and mature.

Any way, OP to answer your question, A Love Supreme has a couple aspects to it that standout. One is that each of the four parts are composed completely differently; whereas an album like say...Giant Steps is all based on a particular harmonic idea or My Favorite Things is all modal, A Love Supreme switches it up track by track like one of them's just pentatonics the other's chromatic one's polytonal etc. There's a surprising variety of playing on the album, too. Like the first track has more bluesy licks on it, the second one speeds it up, the third one has this jagged interplay between the sax and the piano/bass, the last part is kinda big epic drony. It's probably singlehandedly responsible for being a showcase of why Coltrane/Jones were both top tier in their range of expression they can do with their instruments. Sure, there's like other example of such variety in jazz like Mingus Ah Um or Naked City or a lot of avant garde guys. But the range in improvisation, how the parts smoothly fit together, and the general accessibility compared to more avant garde jazz gives A Love Supreme a lot of love. The kind of love that can be appreciated by someone who has no clue about all this and even the most veteran jazz guys.

Yeah most improvisation isn't very thought out but Coltrane is also a composer who writes catchy melodies and good music.