TPAB is one of the few genuine great American works. Absolutely drenched in themes, symbolism, and plot, both lyrically and musically. Nothing before or since has captured the whirlwind of emotions, contradictions, and ideas of “America” that poor black rappers who rise to unbelievable fame experience. To speak truth about both of those worlds, to see past the “I made it” notion of rich black rapper life into the deeper soullessness of the music industry and upper class culture, to find the joy in where you came from as well as the inability to ever go back into that world again. To weave in the history of black music of soul, jazz, spoken word, funk, and hip hop into that narrative, to play the part of dumb rapper and “businessman” rapper and “woke” rapper and back again, puts that album far above almost anything else this country has produced in any medium. Not to mention a mastery of the form of hip hop lyricism, with each line not only advancing the themes but also being incredibly sonically pleasing, and even pushing beyond that to critique the form’s modern reliance on words being more instrument than written word to put the sonics of song in direct contrast and competition with the lyrics.
No music critic has ever done it real justice, leaning on words like “dense”, “complex”, and “layered” to let them off the hook of thoroughly digesting the absolute masterwork displayed on that album.
I know people are going to shit on OP but before that I come to say that I wholeheartedly agree with him. TPAB is really masterful.
Zachary Morris
thanks bud
Bentley Gutierrez
>TPAB is one of the few genuine great American works. Even people who love this album knows this is literally retarded.
John Peterson
white people shouldn't be allowed to critique rap music honestly OP nonsense is as pretentious as it is untrue
Hunter Morales
It’s lacking in any genuine self criticism and just goes through the bullet points that have been laid out time and time again. Hip hop fans and poptimists are far too easy to impress. The album is cliche in every sense whether it be musically, lyrically, thematically, etc. The praise it receives comes from the listener feeling vindicated for having previously agreed with it.
You can’t be a person of any depth or thoughtfulness and enjoy this album. It’s fundamentally impossible. At the very best you can be a shallow swiller of dogma, and at the very worst you are the butterfly being pimped.
Evan Barnes
>The album is cliche in every sense whether it be musically, lyrically, thematically You’re a non musician.
Lucas Gray
>when you only listen to an album once
Jaxon Robinson
If a ape talking over a drum machine can be so can he.
Hunter James
>when you've never listened to the album at all
Juan Wood
Rap is inherently vapid and shallow. Not that there's anything wrong with that in general, it can be the thing you need sometimes but it's a genre devoid of a true masterpiece. It's "fun" music, stuff that can amp you up sometimes but doesn't have too much to pore over
Blake Diaz
>but it's a genre devoid of a true masterpiece It Takes a Nation of Millions and Fear of a Black Planet have been out for 30 years.
Jason Sanders
The use of various black musical traditions in this manner was cliche decades before. The themes on black the contradictions success have been cliche for decades too. The greatest cliche of all (and the one which proves that Kendrick is fundamentally incapable of independent critical thought) is the treatment of Tupac Shakur as some sort of prophet.
Again, it only resonate with you because you already agreed with it. It was cliche to the extent that it existed within you already, it appealed directly to the soul that was bestowed upon you by our society.
Wyatt Young
Those albums are masterpieces, but they’re as direct and superficial as music can get. Public Enemy weren’t going for nuance.
Nathaniel Rivera
>The use of various black musical traditions in this manner was cliche decades before. Yeah, as if every rapper had a big Orchestra of Jazz players before.
Joshua Hughes
Sampling meant they didn’t need one.
Nicholas White
>Public Enemy weren’t going for nuance. A lot of the best music aren’t very nuanced. But musically, those albums have unique layers.
Gabriel Myers
imma need you to start listing specific songs where your criticism applies wholly cause you're just spewing shit out of your mouth right now
Jaxson Baker
But sampling couldn’t improv like TPAB.
Christian Robinson
TPAB was Kendrick Lamar admitting he had nothing left to say and went for the low hanging fruit. Listen to Black on Both Sides instead.
Ryan Roberts
>when you only listen to one album Gang starr did it 20 years prior youtu.be/rJ5MhvAz5lI What is headland rock, literally all of American blues, and most hip-hop/rap of the 80's/90's/2000's. Not to mention music as a whole has been largely American for the past 50 years. But yeah, shitpost on this board about TPAB, like we've been doing since the album released four years ago.
Kayden Sanchez
One of the few genuine great American works is a little underselling so many other great American works, but everything else I agree, a lot of people just like to criticize it because it’s widely considered to be great and they’re tired of hearing about it
The poem which makes up the backbone of the entire album and the the interview it in which it culminates proves my third point tenfold. The incorporation of black music traditions occurs on the entire album. Meditations on black success have been the topic of everything from movies to, to the writings of people like Cornell West and Henry Louis Gates, to the speeches of Farrakhan. I don’t know how culturally ignorant you would have to be to miss them. The praise it gets is so overstated that I genuinely believe its fans are lying. I don’t think it’s possible for a thinking person to be so ignorant . Sampling allows for improvisation beyond anything a set of live instrumentalists could provide. I just don’t think most producers are capable of pulling it off.
Benjamin Wright
>TPAB is one of the few genuine great American works. Absolutely drenched in themes, symbolism, and plot, both lyrically and musically. Nothing before or since has captured the whirlwind of emotions, contradictions, and ideas of “America” that poor black rappers who rise to unbelievable fame experience. To speak truth about both of those worlds, to see past the “I made it” notion of rich black rapper life into the deeper soullessness of the music industry and upper class culture, to find the joy in where you came from as well as the inability to ever go back into that world again. To weave in the history of black music of soul, jazz, spoken word, funk, and hip hop into that narrative, to play the part of dumb rapper and “businessman” rapper and “woke” rapper and back again, puts that album far above almost anything else this country has produced in any medium. Not to mention a mastery of the form of hip hop lyricism, with each line not only advancing the themes but also being incredibly sonically pleasing, and even pushing beyond that to critique the form’s modern reliance on words being more instrument than written word to put the sonics of song in direct contrast and competition with the lyrics. >No music critic has ever done it real justice, leaning on words like “dense”, “complex”, and “layered” to let them off the hook of thoroughly digesting the absolute masterwork displayed on that album.
that's like saying 1984 is cliche because Brave New World did it first
>The incorporation of black music traditions occurs on the entire album.
what exactly are "black music traditions". funky bass guitar riffs?
Ryder Jones
I agree. But I think the layers are so singularly minded that it’s still shallow. I also don’t think anyone whose drunken the NOI Kool aid is capable of any real depth. I think Nation of Millions (for some reason, I wasn’t a big fan of Fear of a Black Planet) is the best album of the 80s, but I don’t think it’s an answer the the assertion that hip hop is fundamentally shallow.
I don’t think it’s a problem with hip hop; popular music in general isn’t capable of achieving and meaningful depth or nuance.
Juan Cruz
>But I think the layers are so singularly minded that it’s still shallow. Fear of a Black Planet samples are basically unidentifiably. Go to the whosampled page on that album and a majority of the main musical elements in those songs are unidentified. It’s one of the few Hip Hop records of it time to take tiny musical elements (not a direct hook or a straight up recognizable loop) and craft something truly intense. Stop underrating Public Enemy. They were untouchable at their prime.
Jayden Wilson
To quote OP: > To weave in the history of black music of soul, jazz, spoken word, funk, and hip hop into that narrative,
1984 and Brave New World went in entirely different directions. TPAB just presents the same cliches to a new generation.
Saying that someone made the best album of the 80s is underrating them? While I can agree with that the intensity it creates and it’s technical proficiency are second to none. But it still doesn’t allow for the thematic depth and thoughtfulness required for something truly great. It ranks alongside the masterpieces of propaganda (think Eisenstein’s films) rather than the masterpieces of art. That alone puts it at the top of all popular music, so please don’t accuse me of underrating them.
It also doesn’t help that Fight the Power might just be the corniest song ever written.
Jayden Cooper
hopping on here to say thanks OP. might not agree with all of your points but whatever, this is my number one of all time album. These Walls alone works as an example of some of its masterful craftsmanship
lmfao 1) since when has that been an offensive cliche 2) harking back to your biggest childhood influence to twist an old point he made isn't treating anyone as a fucking prophet. he's allowed to appreciate people who meant a lot to him.
look at this guy just straight up discounting an entire generation of people channeling their unique and oppressed experience into a brand new music genre. have you people ever even talked to a black person before scratching your ass on music you wouldn't even give the time to appreciate?
Jaxon Evans
> 2) harking back to your biggest childhood influence to twist an old point he made isn't treating anyone as a fucking prophet. he's allowed to appreciate people who meant a lot to him. He uses Shakur as a voice to guide us to the turbulence of our time. He’s coming as close to appointing him a prophet as a secular individual can.
I never claimed that these cliches were offensive. They’re merely tiring. What’s offensive is the praise such an bland and uninspired collection of music received.
Gabriel Myers
I agree but I still don't like it, I think it's boring.
Gavin Lewis
Fuming
Aaron Lee
> >Saying that someone made the best album of the 80s is underrating them? Calling their production "shallow" is underrating them. >l doesn’t allow for the thematic depth and thoughtfulness required for something truly great. Like you said, they're not very nuanced. But that's the point. They wanted black people to be interested in their history. Their lyrics are very direct because of this. But they have the capabilities of making something with "thematic depth" (i.e Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos). My point is musically, those albums are absolute masterpieces. There's a reason a lot of people outside of Hip Hop love those two albums.
