Can someone give me an actual argument as to why Joanna Newsom isn't the best songwriter of all time...

She meant "I'm a STINKY DUMMY who uses big words to say very little over MEDIEVAL TIMES background music!"
youtu.be/gO17hN-YvBc

I don't remember what it means was a mother and child walking down a beach or some shit like that.

Correct, but it's a more difficult thing to discuss. What do you think about this?
youtube.com/watch?v=-LnYLF_E1NU

It STINKS. I'll have an aneurysm before I have one on her!
youtu.be/gO17hN-YvBc

There's an overly rehearsed, almost unnatural, tone to some of her music. The song Have One On Me is a good example of this, particularly the instrumental passage towards the end. Most great artists can avoid sounding like this even if their music is very rehearsed. Her skill sounds learned rather than inherent, like she "knows" how to make good music like it's writing script.

That's not to diss her, I enjoy her music, but you asked me to tell you why she isn't the greatest artist of all time

her lyrics are the least impressive aspect of her songwriting

HOOM has better lyrics. Ys is good but HOOM is her magnum opus. Argued about this with an autist and his girlfriend broke up with him like a month later and I started fucking her regularly. Ysfags are cucks.

>phonefag

i think she's good too

I don't like to use these words, and, in fact, I often despise anyone who does, but, that being said...
have sex incel.

This. I love her and she's my favorite, but the fact that she's not a man and I am means that there will always be a disconnect based around the themes that she's unable to explore.

fuck

Based

I agree Have One on Me is better but why would you fuck an autists gf?

Of ALL TIME is a stretch. Maybe currently active and relevant.

HOOM has much better songs but it also has filler which Ys doesn't have.

It's Ys

She was hot

Not that user but what songs on HOOM are fillers? They’re all written really well and I’ve been listening to the album for like 4 years at this point. In that time each song on the album has been my favorite at one point or another.

>making up a story to prove your point

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You don’t have to believe me but it’s true. I might actually have proof, gimme a while.

Some of the last songs.

Which ones? If anything, disc 3 is better than disc 1 imo

I honestly like the Milk-Eyed Mender the best. It's Joanna at her least extravagant. Just legit songwriting.

She sucks and the harp is a trash instrument

Ribbon bows, Does not suffice, Occident, Autumn Kinda filler is Go long and Jackrabbits.

She's only second best to Frances Quinlan of Hop Along.

This stuff hits hard and it hits deep. How do people even write like this? She isn't using big thesaurus words to try and sound weird, there is a genuineness to everything she says and it all flows well. How does she do it, bros? I want to do it.

>Go Long
>Kinda filler
Pleb taste

>Dylan for example is just random surrealist drivel.
OP has only listened to blonde on blonde and half of desolation row

It's incredible how every statement you made was false.

Kinda Filler is a little harsh but it doesn't compare to the other songs it's a little repetitive.

I've listened to almost every Dylan album. He is my most played artist on Spotify. I just don't rate his lyrics as highly as Joanna's. Would you like to give an argument or post some Dylan lyrics we can compare with Joanna's?

You're just not feeling it, user. Did something happen during your developing stages that caused you to not feel?

Those are all great though
I fucking love Autumn. Gives the comfiest Sierra Nevada Gold Rush town in the autumn/winter feels.

Her vocal performances are often very colorful and full of personality.

That being said, I find her lyrics to be annoyingly quirky, and her playing often goes into wank territory.

She probably has background in actual poetry. So like Cohen she btfo's the usual singer-songwriter game.

It's actually one of my favorites by her. The chord progression is pretty basic but I find the melody and progression really emotional. It reminds me of Madame George, another favorite.

youtube.com/watch?v=xrOgYjp20j0

i have never listened to newsom, I just don't like that characterisation of Dylan. He would constantly reinvent himself and had many different phases lyrically. His best stuff is often his most stripped back and simple.

Anyway this thread is autistic.

I know but it's what most people tout as his best .

i love joanner newsom

I honestly think that Jon Anderson is a lot better, not saying that Joanna Newsom is bad or anything. Also, Vashti Bunyan is on the same level

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Vashti is not on the same level. I like her but she mostly writes basic lullabies and her singing is not that good.

how do you keep getting dubs

>Jon Anderson
I thought I was the only one who actually liked his lyrics. He reminds me of ee cummings sometimes desu

Lmao those are terrible

Those lyrics are just as nonsensical as anyone else

Bob Dylan almost single handedly established popular songwriting as being a meaningful form of introspective personal expression, particularly through using rhetorical devices more commonly found in poetry than folk or pop music up to that point. That is why it's mostly useless to pit him up against other songwriters who only exist in his wake.

But even if we did just forget all that I still think his lyrics (which I guess is the only thing we'll focus on since there's far more to songwriting than lyrics) are oftentimes more effective than Joanna's.

She has a tendency to get lost in her opulence. Her control of language is probably stronger than any of her contemporaries or predecessors but that doesn't necessarily always equate to a more coherent or effective work. Literally the first thing any writer learns is that wordiness is not necessarily good. I think she's at her best when she pares down her language a bit. Talking about the "hydrocephalitic listlessness" of ants doesn't really signify much in terms of actual content or meaning. It's sort of just snooty prosodic masturbation, which is part of the reason why I like it but it's certainly not free from critique.

This isn't really that controversial to say. There's a huge precedence for this in literary criticism. Joanna's songwriting is pretty firmly of the Romantic era, which is part of the reason why it sounds so radically new and different within the context of pop songwriting, but there's a reason why romanticism died out. This isn't to suggest she needs to change anything about her creative process, just that her work has always been a little anachronist and it does suffer from that at times.

(cont.)

Meanwhile, Dylan's lyrics oftentimes were pretty firmly rooted in the post-modern beat poetry of his era, at least during that mid-60's run. That shit was not just "random surrealist drivel." Sure he forfeited complete literal coherence at times in place of following some tonal or emotional thread but that is not equivalent to just spouting random shit, even if he claims that's what he did. In terms of the literal images something like Desolation Row conjures up, it's pretty far out and hard to place, but if you listen to that song and can't in some way recognize the general theme of disarray and societal decay then you're pretty fuckin dense.

Not to mention that was really only a thing for like 3 and a half of his albums. For the most part his shit was pretty grounded. Blood On The Tracks is IMO a good bit more thematically coherent than any of joanna's albums but with more soul and emotional weight given the more colloquial and familiar palette his lyrics draw from. Dylan can be just as poetic as her but in far less words.

And for the record I think Y's is the best album of this century so far, but your post still reeks of ignorance. I could get into more specifics but usually people who say shit like this haven't even listened to that much Dylan to begin with.

I feel like sometimes Dylan's stronghold is less in actual meaning and more in how the words hit you. "Mona Lisa must have had the highway blues; you can tell by the way she smiles," those lyrics just sort of come up and smack you in the face even if you're only half-listening, and that seems to be their purppse.

She's slightly riddled with Topographic Oceans syndrome, but it isn't too bad.

Dylan is Close to the Edge, Joanna is Topographic Oceans. One just has it, the other does a lot to show that it has it.

That said, I think that Ys is better than all post-Close to the Edge Yes albums.

Baby crying by the ocean. Jesus, did you guys flunk English 11?

youtu.be/-DYyds9shCA

YES. that's exactly it. i like her music well enough but so often it sounds like imitation of whatever she considers interesting/artistic.

if anybody here knows harp repertoire, they'll know that her compositions follow her influences closely. listen to a pin-light bent and metamorphosis 2 by glass. or kora playing and the figures she does on ys. her creativity is hardly inventive, she's just a good synthesiser.

I'm not looking for another as I wander in my time
Walk me to the corner, our steps will always rhyme
You know my love goes with you as your love stays with me
It's just the way it changes, like the shoreline and the sea
But let's not talk of love or chains and things we can't untie
Your eyes are soft with sorrow
Hey, that's no way to say goodbye

------------------------

I fought in the old revolution
On the side of the ghost and the king
Of course I was very young
And I thought that we were winning
I can't pretend I still feel very much like singing
As they carry the bodies away

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