The problem with Rap music is that it's essentially a cheap vocal technique
To master the piano and be able to play jazz, you need YEARS of training. Even more effort would be needed for stuffs like Bebop.
To master scat singing or opera singing, you also need YEARS of training.
Meanwhile, everyday, someone wakes up and become a Rapper.
Because of that there is way too much garbage produced in this genre, so much that it overwhelms Rap music with actual artistical merit.
Rap music is a bit like Yea Forums. There is so much shitposting because of how permissive this site is that if often hides actually good threads and discussions. Same thing with Rap. There is a lot of bad music because of how it functions, so much that it overwhelms Rap that has actual artistic merit, a very rare kind of Rap.
Rap doesn't have any pleb filter, just like Yea Forums doesn't have enough moderation. Other genres on the other hand have a pleb filter that doesn't let you even be able to practice them if you don't have certain skills that take a lot of time to have.
There's still shitty piano players who trained for years. They still call themselves pianists, so there's that. The difficulty in rap isn't so much in the technique, but more in wordplay, wit and delivery. That's why the greats get praised as the greats, while people like Desiigner go as fast as they came
Camden Russell
But a shitty piano player doesn't make it big most of the time. At least not in jazz.
Kevin Baker
For me, Rap skills go as such : - Flow (how you deliver syllables in relation to the beat) - Lyricism (wordplay, punchlines, rhetorical figures etc...)
For me, flow is more important than lyricism. I don't care about what you are saying if you don't say it in a way that is pleasing to my ear and play with my expectations.
Christopher Evans
Isn't this more to do with lack of originality rather than poor execution?
The problem with new pianists is that so many of them copy their contemporaries unlike many overnight rap artists that produce utter dross - whether it's of their own making or a forgery.
The thing is that you can't just wake up and make a Bebop song and it will sell. If you are a shitty player nobody will even appreciate your Bebop songs because it will not sounds like Bebop, since you don't have the skills required to play Bebop, let alone play Bebop well.
On the other hand, Rap music is very, well, too accessible. So much that it's easy to produce mediocre, but listenable songs in this genre.
Why do you think cringe-worthy YouTubers are becoming Rappers at an increasing rates now? KSI, PewDiePie, ImDontai, RiceGum, Jake Paul etc...
Granted they don't make incredible Rap music, but it's still listenable, even if very average. Do you think KSI could wake up and start compose Bebop right now and publish it on his channel? Hell no
Jace Torres
Of course they don't, no one wants to listen to boring stuff
I agree
You neither won't just wake up and make a rap song that will sell. Why do you think YouTubers with millions of subscribers can sell "rap" songs? Because they already had millions of subscribers. And the main objective of their music is entertainment. It doesn't have to be good, it just needs to have a music video and some funny stuff. And nobody could compose anything when they don't have a background in an instrument or DAW. They could write shitty lyrics for any genre though.
Jayden Long
In the end if you can get rich by using auto-tune and basic lyrics on a beat someone else made why wouldn't you? The pleb filter is set by whatever consumers are willing to buy.
Jeremiah Powell
Modern pianists become pianists by playing what their contemporaries produced, so it's to be expected.
Rap on the other hand, it's strange and discouraged to "take" from someone else. People don't learn to Rap by reciting verses by Kool G Rap and Big Pun and try their best to have the same exact flow as they do, unlike pianists who learn to be pianists by playing compositions by their contemporaries, and by copying motives, patterns and techniques. People don't learn to Rap by writing lyrics with the same exact rhyme scheme structure as that of their contemporaries.
So what happens is that Rap music is forever stagnating because of a culture that puts novelty above evolution.
Brody Allen
Clever lyricism is intellectual though, and rapping correctly over a beat isn't easy. Honestly rap is the most intellectually stimulating music today prove me wrong. It takes many listens and knowledge to really pick up on everything a good rapper is on.
>People don't learn to Rap by writing lyrics with the same exact rhyme scheme structure as that of their contemporaries. There are instances of this though
Mos Def used the same exact rhyme scheme as Slick Rick on "Children's story"
>2019 >still thinking actual talent in music matters anymore and has mattered in almost a century John Lennon barely knew how to play a fucking guitar when the first Beatles album came out and he is one of the most famous musicians of our generation. It has nothing to do specifically with rap music, that's just how popular music has functioned since at least Elvis. Rap is just the most marketable pop music of the current generation and just like there was hundreds of shitty Beatles ripoffs being pushed, there are hundreds of shitty attempts to make money off the trap wave being sold to us.
Luke Myers
Alright maybe you have a point given that that's recent but still, actual lyricism and poetry over a beat is pretty great though. Offers something different that orchestras and classical cannot.
Aiden Stewart
Rap is a huge market and that is what makes it easily accessible. When rock was at its most popular there were many successful front men who could barely play a guitar and were at best average singers. Remember that most listeners don't really have any passion or interest in music and just want something on the the background that sounds pleasing and is popular enough so that they feel that no one is going to judge them for listening to it.
well thats not a music's problem, thats the economic system. Anything that sells is good. even if is disposable shit.
Justin Hall
What the fuck is this bullshit
Henry Parker
still doing this. lmfao
Colton Lee
I get your point but sayit it doesn`t matter is ridiculous. We have at least very skilled people on top of multiple genres and even in fucking disco-polo you can hear clear difference in how people sing and lyrics. Hell, I am almost 100% rap guy but there are some disco artists in my country that I can listlen as their lyrics are not that dumb
Nicholas Adams
Bach is being performed every year in many different countries.
Julian Kelly
>youtubers are becoming rappers can you please off yourself if this is an argument. my fucking god comedians/entertainers have always made music on the side as a joke or a publicity stunt.
anybody can make music. not good music. same goes for rap, anyone can do it, its usually crap.
Isaac Hall
facts anyway stream tabby - recorded in my car, the new ep from a youtube rapper that's actually a real rapper
You're comparing popular music to jazz and opera dumbfuck. It's true most rap sucks but most rock sucks and most pop sucks, same thing with technical ability - there's technically complicated rock/pop/rap and technically simple rock/pop/rap. Compare it to something similar you fucking moron.
Luke Thompson
There are degrees of pleb filter.
Most Rock sucks because its pleb filter is less powerful than Jazz's Most Pop sucks because its pleb filter is less powerful than Rock's Most Rap sucks because its pleb filter is less powerful than Pop's
But would you say that most Jazz sucks? Nah, because the pleb filter of Jazz is so powerful that very few garbage comes out of this genre.
Colton Long
I mean I get you're pretending to be a semi-retard to hide that your actual retardation but the fact that you have a hierarchy of genres tells me you're a fucking idiot probably cos your ears are shit. If anything there's a lot of shitty masturbatory jazz that nobody but jazz nerds who've never had sex like.
Adrian Rodriguez
This is not a hierarchy of genres tho...
Zachary Johnson
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>it's essentially a cheap vocal technique I beg to differ. Consider the following (in its entirety): youtu.be/56R3hU-fWZY
Joseph Carter
By "cheap" I guess what OP meant is "accessible to most people".
Singing is less accessible than Rap. Rap doesn't (necessarily) require you to manipulate your pitch, it only requires you to manipulate your vocal delivery. Now, I agree that good Rappers will have a better delivery than most people, and combine that with a careful placement of rhymes on the beat, but it doesn't change the fact that Rapping is accessible to most people because most people are able to manipulate their vocal delivery in a rhythmic way to very basic levels, while most people are not able to manipulate their vocal pitch well.
Aiden Johnson
I wonder what this lil nigga thinking about
Jace Martinez
>but that doesnt change the fact that rapping is accessible to most people But it fucking does, you idiot. If rapping is so "accessible," prove it and vocaroo a rap right now. Doesn't have to be original, go pick some lyrics from Madvillainy and try and match the flow, pacing, pitch and delivery.
Owen Campbell
I'm in public.
Anyway, that's not the point... I repeat : >Now, I agree that good Rappers will have a better delivery than most people, and combine that with a careful placement of rhymes on the beat
So mentioning MF DOOM and asking me to imitate him has nothing to do with the argument because you are ignoring what I actually said. You can't just selectively quote what you want and ignore the whole argument
>good rappers >eminem kek anyways we have no idea how much time and effort went into recording those so they're irrelevant anyways. there were probably 100+ failed attempts before they nailed it. you're implying that manipulating your vocal delivery is easy when it's not and you're ignoring the fact that many rappers commonly regarded to be the best will incorporate pitch changes into their music. and many people can't even go two sentences talking at a normal pace without incorporating an "ummm" or flubbing their delivery of a word.
Julian Ortiz
You're not in public, and you have no right to ignore MY point that rapping is more difficult than you think it is.
Cooper Ross
>>good rappers >>eminem I didn't claim that Eminem was a good Rapper tho, I was simply showing examples of how rap is accessible by showing those little girls
>you're implying that manipulating your vocal delivery is easy when it's not It's easier and more natural to humans than manipulating your pitch.
>and you're ignoring the fact that many rappers commonly regarded to be the best will incorporate pitch changes into their music Yes, but those aren't trends that define the art of Rapping.
Dylan Lopez
what was it like being bullied by blacks in your formative years
Zachary Cox
Those videos you posted are impressive displays of fangirlism more than anything. Memorizing some else's rap after they've already tweaked and recorded it is different from making a rap because when you're creating a rap you have much more responsibility for the flow, the pitch, the delivery, inflection and so on. These factors are all handled for you if you're just copying someone else's track because you already have an example set of how and precisely when you shift inflections etc. >its easier That doesn't mean it's easy though. To do it well and not just "good enough for my preexisting fanbase of 12 yr old youtubers who chiefly know me for my GTA Online videos" takes talent. >those arent trends that define the art of rapping so you've just admitted that rapping is an art, which doesnt help your argument much. and music isn't defined by how well you can modulate your pitch, kek, im sure many of your favorite songs don't deviate in pitch much at all.
Jonathan Morales
>That doesn't mean it's easy though Easier than scat singing, as a vocal technique.
What you fail to acknowledge is that everything is relative and that it was already explained in relation to what that critique of Rap was.
>so you've just admitted that rapping is an art Yes? I like Rap music.
>which doesnt help your argument much What?
>and music isn't defined by how well you can modulate your pitch I never said it was.
Lincoln Clark
AHAHAHAHAHA user, have a great day
Tyler Kelly
1. Manipulating your vocal delivery is easier and more natural to humans than manipulating your pitch. 2. Rap is more about manipulating your vocal delivery in a rhythmic way than manipulating your pitch 3. Singing is more about manipulating your vocal pitch
Conclusion. Rapping is easier and more natural to humans than singing.
That's not rocket science, stop misunderstanding the argument and strawmanning so much.
Kayden Flores
I'm Black myself... Kinda racist of you to assume my race from my beliefs
Michael Turner
bippity doooooo bap bap bap bop tweedley dee dop user i hate to break it to you but just because your high school classmates dont like bebop music doesn't mean it's a more intelligent, grown up genre. you'll find that most adults dont even listen to that dated shit. stop being a 16 year old boomer contrarian and get some puss. you called rap cheap and inferior this whole thread, its too late to backpedal now, so form a cohesive response to my argument. this is backwards and counterintuitive. singing is so natural and easy to humans that in prior centuries it was common to sing while you worked. rapping requires much more demand of the english language.
Mason Howard
hehe
Julian Kelly
>user i hate to break it to you but just because your high school classmates dont like bebop music doesn't mean it's a more intelligent, grown up genre. When did I say that and what makes you think that my high school classmates didn't like bebop, or that it influenced my perception of the genre?
>you'll find that most adults dont even listen to that dated shit. So?
>you called rap cheap and inferior this whole thread, I didn't say it was inferior. By "cheap" I meant accessible. Cheap/accessible doesn't mean bad or inferior.
>its too late to backpedal now, so form a cohesive response to my argument. You are telling me this while you do nothing but strawmanning and making unsusbtantiated ad hominems since the beginning? Like, you just told me that "lol you think you are intelligent because your high school classmates don't like bebop". You think that's mature?
Matthew Adams
subtext my dude, subtext. i'm happy that summer's over soon and you'll be back in school doing something productive rather than just making uninformed shitposts.
Robert Price
lol this guys a troll who got bullied leave him alone man
Adrian Price
And it's not even about "liking". I never said I liked Bebop. I was simply making an assessment regarding the vocal techniques.
I don't like Classical music but I can acknowledge that it developed interesting harmonies and textures, and use it in an argument. It doesn't mean I like it.
Instead of looking inside the arguments you are literally IMAGINING what I "like" and what I "am", when this is completely irrelevant, and your stupid excuse is "subtext". Gtfoh and grow up a little bit.
I'm not an highschool student...
Nathan Ross
just stop zoomer, you're embarassing yourself. go pick out a new back pack so your mom doesn't get you one of those embarassing all-black school shooter ones.
Asher Stewart
Americans I swear, I will never understand why they like to make so many assumptions, and why they also seem to think that there is nothing in the world outside of themselves.
Guess I should take a break from this website. See you.
