Is Jazz one of those genres where the most popular artists are legitimately the greatest...

So

Many

What do you mean "that couldn’t be just as validly applied to many other jazz albums"? The traits that makes these albums great are at the founding of jazz to begin with. In my opinion Coltrane is just one of the greatest improvisers. This could also be marked up to the influence these albums have had on Jazz. I feel like you're trying to make me out as a pseud or something because you don't listen to jazz. Seethe.

Not an argument

Besides instrumental virtuosity, people who like jazz listen for group timbre, dynamics and interplay.
More people name drop Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington than actually listen to their music.

>I feel like you're trying to make me out as a pseud or something
No need. You’ve just outed yourself.

You haven't contributed anything to the conver other than needless hostility and retardation. Stfu or post top 5 jazz albums

that's in large because jazz is a genre solely for in-the-know jazzheads nowadays, so what's popular is directed by the people who actually know what's good

out to lunch, bitches brew and black saint were absolutely not the most popular albums in their times - most people preferred more straightforward shit

afterwards boring smooth jazz was the most popular by far and now it's shit like Kemasi Washington, which will also be forgotten in a decade or two - the classics will remain, the flavour of the month targeted towards non-jazzheads will be forgotten

Jazz is pussy music.

What makes Out to Lunch better than Dialogue or Destination...Out?

What makes Giant Steps better than Sonny Side Up or Workout?

What makes Bitches Brew better than Mwandishi or Inner mounting Flame?

Yes, because it's for cool cats only,

They’re rated higher on RYM

Lol I get the comparison to Dialogue in terms of quality, but the rest, cmon. OTL is just a better album than what you have mentioned in terms of consistency, and quality. Gazelloni alone is proof of this.
Great albums, but you have to be a minge to think they're bettar than Giant Steps in terms of music theory.

There was a time where I liked Mwandishi more than Bitches Brew, but honestly at this point I think bb is the better album. It's an all star group of some of the greatest jazz musicians. It's interesting that you mentioned mahavishnu orchestra, because I think part of why I prefer BB is because of John Mclaughlins playing. I still think BB is better because of how great all the musicians on that album are though. Tony Williams is one of my favs.

samefag

Critics

Still

>OTL is just a better album than what you have mentioned in terms of consistency, and quality.
Why? What is inconsistent or of lower quality about those other albums?

>Great albums, but you have to be a minge to think they're bettar than Giant Steps in terms of music theory.
What makes Giant Steps better, “in terms of music theory”? What does that even mean?

>It's an all star group of some of the greatest jazz musicians.
So really the only reason you’re putting forth for Bitches Brew being better is that the musicians are more famous?

There’s too much mindless hero worship in jazz. Especially on the internet. There used to be these weekly threads that would happen here where someone would post 10 jazz tracks but without any info about the artist or album and people would listen and give their thoughts about the tracks. And often it would be surprising where people would be critical of artists they usually love or the opposite. Because they were listening to it without preconceived notions about what they like or dislike.

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>Why? What is inconsistent or of lower quality about those other albums?

It sounds better.

>What makes Giant Steps better, “in terms of music theory”? What does that even mean?
David Demsey, saxophonist and Coordinator of Jazz Studies at William Paterson University, cites a number of influences leading to Coltrane's development of these changes. After Coltrane's death it was proposed that his "preoccupation with... chromatic third-relations" was inspired by religion or spirituality, with three equal key areas having numerological significance representing a "magic triangle", or, "the trinity, God, or unity."[2] However, Demsey shows that though this meaning was of some importance, third relationships were much more "earthly," or rather historical, in origin. Mention should be made of his interests in Indian ragas during the early 1960s, the Trimurti of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva may well have been an inherent reference in his chromatic third relations, tritone substitutes, and so on.[2]

It's a much more interesting album musically and theory wise.

>So really the only reason you’re putting forth for Bitches Brew being better is that the musicians are more famous?

No, stop trying to make this a thing. It's not because they're more famous, it's because the musicians are all exemplary of innovation and skill in the genre. Gtfo my thread pseud

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Oh, and what are the three key areas in Giant Steps and their relationships to each other?

And what do Chromatic third relationships have to do with Vishnu, Shiva, or Ragas? Where is there a Tritone substitution in the tune Giant Steps? What do tritone subs have to do with Ragas or Vishnu?

Surely all this should be pretty easy to explain if it’s your central reasoning for what makes Giant Steps great, right? Or did you just copy and paste some fancy sounding shit without giving any thought to what any of it meant?

Embarrassing post. I'm not even the user you are replying to.

>Lol u dont realy like those albums prove it
*Proves it*
>Lol tel me why theyare good
*Tells you why they're good*
>Lol i dunet bleieve you explain moar

Alright I'm not gonna respond anymore, you're either trolling or a pseud who doesn't actually like jazz, who only listens so he can add obscure rates to his rym. I'm clearly the only one who is contributing to this conversation. You refuse to explain why those albums you mentioned are better.

Pathetic samefaggery once again

I’m not saying the albums I like are better. I haven’t made any claims along those lines at all. I’m simply asking you to back up the claims you’ve been making throughout the thread. It’s fun watching you desperately try to change the subject and resort to name calling in order to avoid any kind of critical thought of your own. It’s hard for me to imagine going through life getting mad anytime someone asks you to try to explain the reasoning behind your opinions.

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Coltranes good stuff is not popular, Coltranes snoozefest ballads is popular.

I've explained why I prefer the albums I do, you haven't. Put in the effort and I'll respond in detail.

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name

I haven’t even made any claims of liking any albums at all. I’m simply asking you to explain and justify your claims. In this post I asked you some very straightforward questions about the tune Giant Steps, based on your previous claims about the composition. You completely ignored those questions and turned it into a personal attack against me.

SNEED

based

desu My Favourite Things and Ballads are still great even if they're more conventional, the playing is still on point and the sax is still beautifully expressive, even if they are just playing ballads

this is probably the most pseud post i’ve seen in a while

Not true with jazz either. Miles Davis is jazz for people that read Rolling Stone.

Everybody likes Miles, he may be entry level but he's absolutely fantastic. You're just trying too hard.

Samefaggotry once again unfortunately. I still refuse to articulate more until you give a non-parasitical reply.

blindfold threads were the best on this site

Imagine getting this mad when asked simply to defend your opinions. God I love Yea Forums.

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Can you explain what makes those albums truly great in terms that couldn’t be just as validly applied to many other jazz albums? If not, you’re probably full of shit and consider those albums the greatest because you know you’re supposed to.

>Implying you didn't start it with the aggression

It wouldn’t be Yea Forums without a bit of aggressive shitposting right? It got your attention, but rather than prove me wrong you’ve just gotten mad and so far proved me absolutely correct.

Nah, you're a slave to every post I write. I've written why I like those albums and you haven't. You keep asking me for more and more of my input without providing any yourself. Parasite tier poster.

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The

>It wouldn’t be Yea Forums without a bit of aggressive shitposting right?
Stop trying so hard to blend in. Dumb kike.

Not him (I'm not a samefag), but you really are dense as fuck.

>I've explained why I prefer the albums I do
You haven't. You only posted some shitty quote with bearing on why the music was good.

>you haven't
Why should he? The discussion is about your lack of critical thought, everybody else is irrelevant.

Not replying until you contribute to the topic

It's completely self evident that the Jazz musicians of the 50's and 60's were the absolute best of their time. The assault upon Jazz by popular critics is one big cope.

I'm not the guy you are arguing with, I just want you to get back on topic by replying to this Those are perfectly valid questions.

Oh yeah sure man, let me write it

Alright I finished

>Why? What is inconsistent or of lower quality about those other albums?

It sounds better.

>What makes Giant Steps better, “in terms of music theory”? What does that even mean?
David Demsey, saxophonist and Coordinator of Jazz Studies at William Paterson University, cites a number of influences leading to Coltrane's development of these changes. After Coltrane's death it was proposed that his "preoccupation with... chromatic third-relations" was inspired by religion or spirituality, with three equal key areas having numerological significance representing a "magic triangle", or, "the trinity, God, or unity."[2] However, Demsey shows that though this meaning was of some importance, third relationships were much more "earthly," or rather historical, in origin. Mention should be made of his interests in Indian ragas during the early 1960s, the Trimurti of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva may well have been an inherent reference in his chromatic third relations, tritone substitutes, and so on.[2]

It's a much more interesting album musically and theory wise.

>So really the only reason you’re putting forth for Bitches Brew being better is that the musicians are more famous?

No, stop trying to make this a thing. It's not because they're more famous, it's because the musicians are all exemplary of innovation and skill in the genre. Gtfo my thread pseud

HAHAHAHAH SAMEFAG YOU CANT TRICK ME

>Nah, you're a slave to every post I write.
Funny considering you said you were going to stop responding an hour ago and here we still are.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post, I meant this one I'm not the same guy you were replying to before, seriously, you look like some schizo pretending otherwise, no offense intended.

Suck my peen samefag

You guys are all ridiculous. Just listen and enjoy jazz, it's perfectly valid to love an album and hail it as best even if you don't know enough about theory to write a paper about it.

So many people on this board treat music as a competition and this really blows my mind. Music should be leisure, relaxation, a source of joy. Why don't you meet up and compete in track or something instead?

Yeah, man, Justin Bieber is the best artist of all time, and thousands of beliebers prove it!

You completely missed the point of my post.

Circle-jerking over who has the best taste is completely juvenile. Disregarding someones opinion on music just because they don't have theoretical knowledge is ridiculous.

That's my two main points.

>Disregarding someones opinion on music just because they don't have theoretical knowledge
That's actually a really good idea.

yeah, I mean if you're an insecure pseud. It's nontheless ridiculous.

>Circle-jerking over who has the best taste is completely juvenile.
And the discussion was never about that you fucking idiot.

>Disregarding someones opinion on music just because they don't have theoretical knowledge is ridiculous.
The other guy was just pointing out how a certain user was full of shit. If that user had just claimed he liked them it would have been fine, but he claimed much more than that. Read the thread, idiot.

Holy shit giant steps has more interesting music theory involved wtf are u on drugs how am i full of shit

>Holy shit giant steps has more interesting music theory involved wtf are u on drugs how am i full of shit
Just because it uses "chromatic third-relations"? Is that all?

People secure in their beliefs are usually pretty wrong about everything.

I legitimately don't get how you don't understand this. You asked me what about the theory I like about it and I answered. What more do you want from me? I'm LITERALLY telling you what theory I like in the music. If you want more I like how it uses the circle of fifths and it's dynamic key changes.

>Giant Steps is a great album because a saxophone professor said so

KEK

You said that's what made it good. Is that the only reason it's good? Does any music with chromatic third relationships become good as well?

>If you want more I like how it uses the circle of fifths and it's dynamic key changes.
Lmao, you might as well say you like it because it has melodies lol

Look, the point is you are a pseud who has no idea what he's talking about.

I told you what I like about the theory that I find enjoyable. Overall there isn't much I can say other than that. You still haven't contributed anything. And life goes on.

lol what is this pseud talking about, what else can you say other than what hes saying?

Sure, you did, but that's not saying much.

?