Tango en Skai is good and fun, but I prefer this piece by him youtube.com/watch?v=fglcdeHdGyc I believe Dyens really knew how to express, in his own original manner, that brazilian saudade feeling that characterized Villa-Lobos' music
what are your favorite classical contemporary muscians?
Dylan Parker
>Ballet girls >don't have autism Ballet girls are almost as bad as horse girls
Elijah Gray
conducting - ashkenazy violin - james ehnes cello - gautier capucon guitar - marcin dylla piano - mariangela vacatello orchestra - london philharmonic early chamber - ex cathedra general chamber - english chamber orchestra string quartet - altius quartet S - anna devin MS - anita rachvelishvili T - saimir pirgu Br/B - alexander vinogradov currently
William Smith
Redpill me on lute music.
Aaron Nguyen
ITALIAN
Ayden Diaz
>has more capability for expression than keyboard instruments >has more sonority than the modern classical guitar >historically informed whats not to love
Ryan Ortiz
The best chamber music of its time (renaissance era).
Hadn't heard of those, will check them out for sure
Jonathan Taylor
Are there really heavy cases of compositions that sound very similar without being intentionally an homage or a variation? In comedy there are sometimes cases of comedians genuinely writing jokes that were written before without knowing that. Of course there's plain stealing but most of the time it's obvious which is which.
>debussy and tchaikovsky in s tier >wagner in c tier >all those greats in d tier shitty ranking by low-t asians
Cameron Nguyen
Who is the best composer?
James Collins
Canon in D
Matthew Hall
I mean, I like the Sibelius violin concerto and all, but that is ridiculous
Owen Sanchez
>The entire D tier >Liszt and Franck in C tier >Tchaikovsky S tier Hard disagree on those. I find that the rest, to my opinion are surprisingly close to where I would put them.
It would be interesting to have /classical/ make a similar one. But I feel that many of those composers are so different they aren't worth comparing, maybe we could to one by periods?
There are plenty of cases of that, as well as homages, references and self-references littered all across music. As you listen to more stuff, you'll find themes that sound similar to some modern compositions. One that comes to mind is how similar this part of the exposition in Brahms second piano concerto to the Star Wars theme. youtu.be/y4YqWXmF9Dg?t=137
Nathaniel Nelson
they overrate a lot of composers because they are symphony players. list needs power gaps I think ranking all eras at once is more fun
Xavier Thomas
Yeah, it's more fun to make all read at once, but the problem is a lot of people would take it way too seriously. Maybe worth a try regardless
Please tell me why I should hate Tchaikovsky. It seems to be the thinking man's opinion.
Matthew Gonzalez
There's no real reason, unless you want to start posting firetrucks here to try and feel superior. Tchaikovsky isn't the deepest composer ever and a some of his music can feel like pointless screaming at the audience at times as a "climax", but you can appreciate the beautiful melodies, the good climaxes and rather good craftsmanship of his works
Daniel Murphy
You shouldn't, only a brainlet would hate Tchaikovsky. You should hate Wagner though, the most overrated and pompous composer of all times.
Gabriel Martin
What a load of crap, unsurprisingly.
Gavin Rodriguez
>superior >dont have autism pick one
Blake Rivera
any brahms piece and any beethoven piece
Adam Reyes
Not really. Listen with more detail
Lincoln Phillips
Further proof Papa Haydn is massively underrated. Dumb slit-eyed chink gooks only knowing composers that have written a violin concerto for them to play.
While that's better than the other one still >Brahms B tier >Bartok, Satie, Stravinsky and Prokofiev C tier >Messiaen D tier 100% disagree
I'd put Wagner and Haydn in the A tier too and up Beethoven to the S tier again, but this is much more debatable IMO. Also disagree on Ravel and Debussy as D tier
I've never been a fan of modern/formalist/serialist/atonal music. Changes I'm willing to cede as oversight: >Prokofiev can be moved up to B for his ballets and Kije >Brahms to A tier (still not sold on this, but I'll take overwhelming academic agreement as evidence) Wagner definitely deserves S tier for his influence on literally every type of music after him: Mahler, Schoenberg, Berg, every opera after him, modern movie music, etc. Also, diversity of discography limits Ravel and Debussy a lot.
Chase Hernandez
Who here is going to do a Mahler 10 symphony marathon on July 7th? Is there an audio streaming service with live chat? I'm in CDT btw UTC-5
Landon Myers
Can someone with formal training explain why Brahms isn't considered top tier? Other than quantity...
Kevin Bell
>I've never been a fan of modern/formalist/serialist/atonal music. It shows, consider listening more, it grows on you. I used to not like serialism at all but now I like some composers (not Schönberg) I do believe you are underrating both Stravinsky and Messiaen
Brahms in A is where I would put him. You should listen to him more as well, he is truly amazing.
>Wagner definitely deserves S tier for his influence on literally every type of music after him: Mahler, Schoenberg, Berg, every opera after him, modern movie music, etc.
By that same metric there's no excuse for Beethoven on A tier. Should be on S. Also I think Monteverdi is too low as well
>Also, diversity of discography limits Ravel and Debussy a lot. What do you mean?
Could you listen to this and tell me if it's any good? I have no knowledge of music theory and I'm just making these things in fl studio that sound good to me, do you think it's worth investing more of my time into?
I have formal training, and in from what I've seen Brahms is definitely top tier, that's why I complained about the tier list. His music shows a craftsmanship of nearly unparalleled quality and ingenuity. It's enough to listen to his chamber music to understand how much of a genius Brahms was.
Lucas Lewis
Yes, I will admit that I haven't heard as much of modernist music as I have classical. Yes, Monteverdi was a mistake. His influence on operatic music is too profound. Brahms' music sounds too perfunctory to me. Almost academic. It's not as accessible as other composers, maybe it is my shortcoming.
Nicholas Richardson
>Debussy and Schoenberg in D tier >Faure not B >>>Rach and Shostakovich anywhere but D tier Shit taste shit list.
Jace Kelly
Brahms music is anything but perfunctory. He was a perfectionist and trust me, it shows. I agree that it can seem very dry and academic at the start, but Brahms is truly a romantic in the sense of how much and how well he expressed typical romantic emotions and passions. Give him a shot, I think you'll end up liking him. I used to believe Brahms was cheap Beethoven until I did a challenge here called "Brahmsuary" where you listened to one opus per day during february that covered most of his important works.
Anyways the tier list is pretty good and I could see it potentially representing the majority of people here to a good enough degree.
Matthew Wood
>>>Rach and Shostakovich anywhere but D tier >Underrating the ruskis C'mon, user
Jordan Gonzalez
>Purcell better than Rameau
Zachary Taylor
Think for yourself. If you enjoy music, listen to it
how do i remember pieces i listen to? i'll listen to it and be actively enjoying it but at the end i'll forget most specifics and nuances and even often melodies - and at that rate what's the point? took listening to beethoven's 9th maybe 10 times to get a relatively comprehensive mental map of what goes on in it besides the ode to joy bit
David Ortiz
Listen more and closer
Brandon Morales
You answered your own question. Listen to it multiple times and your brain will do the rest. It's amazing how well you remember a piece once you listened to it repeatedly, you don't have to analyze it or anything (unless of course you want deeper understanding and not just plain memorization).
Daniel Torres
probably doesn't help that i find it hard to well up the patience for reading and usually listen to music passively. guess i have to git gud
I like Faure but he's got some limitations. Some of his pieces are genius, many are mediocre (string quartet, piano nocturnes). Nowhere near the consistency of a Mozart or even a Debussy. Maybe Franck is an apt comparison (although Franck was not really a melodist...) they are tuning, the string instruments in the orchestra are tuned in perfect fifths and so they are tuned by playing two strings at once and matching their harmony
Anthony Nelson
Thanks, it sounds so pretty.
Gavin Clark
>many are mediocre (string quartet, piano nocturnes) None of the nocturnes nor the string quartet are mediocre, everything he wrote was a piece of inspired genius, also Franck was a melodist as well as genius of counterpoint
Eli Johnson
cool opinions the nocturnes have some nice moments but they are imitative junk next to Chopin. the string quartet has a good first movement and then falls apart, it sounds unfinished. Now I know that he died writing it, I guess it's not fair to complain, but next to the first violin sonata which is a work of genius it's disappointing. But structural issues plague a lot of his work, including those nocturnes, which is common for second-rate composers: great ideas, but they lose the thread in development. I have to admit I am not a Franck expert, I meant more that he is not known for his songs in the way Faure is
Kevin Davis
Prokofiev is one of the best in the 20th century. I haven't listened to him in a while but this post was a good reminder to.
It's good
>bartok b tier throwing up in my mouth right now. bartok is a tier
Nathan Ortiz
THAT'S it I'm unsubscribing and disliking
Caleb Wilson
>throwing up in my mouth right now. bartok is a tier completely agree his late piano sonatas are essential, really underrated composer
Adrian Morgan
Why do people even rank Satie? His only notable contributions to art was the Memenopedias and Gnossmemes and coining the term Surrealism with his ballet Parade. Besides that he's a D rate composer. I mean how can you justify putting Satie over someone like Scriabin? Or even other 20th century composers like Szymanowski, Ginastera etc.
Based and Bartokpilled
>his late piano sonatas are essential, really underrated composer Really surprising to hear desu. I haven't gave them a listen. Most people will recommend the Piano Concerti or Sympnonies. I do enjoy Visions Fugitives for it's Scriabinesque sound. Will have to check the sonatas
lads im looking for a hindemith piece that opens with fp crescendo (loud to suddenly quiet crescendo back to forte) french horns in minor seconds. can anyone help?
Kevin Robinson
the sarcasmes are another really wild early piano piece of Prokofiev's I love you are not giving enough credit to Satie. he was an amateur craftsman and he knew it. But the French modernism of Ravel and late Debussy (and indeed, Stravinsky) would not have been possible without his artistic influence, and they said as much. Ravel played his Sarabandes for a composer's society meeting. It is deeply silly putting him above many of the people in D tier there though
why is renaissance and baroque music more enjoyable than classical and romantic era
Gavin Rodriguez
What’s the best recording of Rite of Spring and why is it Boulez with the Cleveland Orchestra?
Thomas Rogers
the best recording is whichever one that has the score on the video on youtube
Cooper Sanders
>not having a highres download of your favorite recording and having a pdf of the score on hand and reading that instead of being some bottomfeeding youtube shitter Top pleb.
Thomas Bell
my sightreading skills are almost good enough for that but not quite. especially in very dense orchestral compositions the yt vids help
Evan Walker
well it is a perfect 5th stack you should listen to daphnis et chloe or even better watch it
William Fisher
underrated and based
Matthew Hill
nice its so clean
Jose Scott
I am right now and I'm loving it, thanks. >Ravel No wonder, from the little classic I listen to, he's my favorite.
Liam Jenkins
youtube.com/watch?v=flNyZuI1NrY sometimes ravels orchestration just makes me laugh at how sublime it is. how can one man be so genius?
Top three orchestrators: Berlioz, Khalinnikov and Ravel
Robert Brooks
i like how theres an emphasis on the smaller details of the orchestration e.g. harps and inner strings but strings glisses just feel abit aggressive especially with that vib
Zachary Stewart
yup i dont think () fits in here
Easton Diaz
Who cares about these ugly gooks anyway
Nathan Long
they obviously like meme violin composers.
Gabriel Smith
for me its: ravel, bartok and mahler (even though I dont like some of his music)
You should listen to his second violin sonata, awesome piece.
Sebastian Peterson
Based Leo.
Hunter Roberts
Is learning the violin even fun? I've only ever been playing the piano but I always liked listening to violin, solo works too. I guess taking classes is a must for the beginning at least, right? How long until I stop sounding completely shit?
Logan Morales
do you have right setup with chinrest/shoulder rest?
I don't have anything, no instrument no nothing. I was just toying with the idea.
Zachary Harris
you can rent violins. depending on the shop, monthly rental fees can go towards the purchasing price of the instrument. you reallllly want to have an instructor guiding you if you dont like wasting time and relearning shit proper.
Samuel Brown
>88796832 What can you recommend me similar to this?
I always find Beethoven's C Minor concerto (the Third Piano Concerto) much smaller and weaker than Mozart's... I realize that Beethoven's new personality and his new vision, which people recognized in his works, made him the greater composer in their minds. But after fifty years, our views need more perspective. One must be able to distinguish between the charm that comes from newness and the value that is intrinsic to a work. I admit that Beethoven's concerto is more modern, but not more significant!
I also realize that Beethoven's First Symphony made a strong impression on people. That's the nature of a new vision. But the last three Mozart symphonies are far more significant... Yes, the Rasumovsky quartets, the later symphonies—these inhabit a significant new world, one already hinted at in his Second Symphony. But what is much weaker in Beethoven compared to Mozart, and especially compared to Sebastian Bach, is the use of dissonance. Dissonance, true dissonance as Mozart used it, is not to be found in Beethoven. Look at Idomeneo. Not only is it a marvel, but as Mozart was still quite young and brash when he wrote it, it was a completely new thing. What marvelous dissonance! What harmony! You couldn't commission great music from Beethoven since he created only lesser works on commission—his more conventional pieces, his variations and the like. When Haydn or Mozart wrote on commission, it was the same as their other works.
Sebastian Nelson
go to an arab general or something closest thing i can think of here is bartok, final parts sound a tad rustic
Justin Anderson
>but they are imitative junk next to Chopin Every nocturne is developed wonderfully
>But structural issues plague a lot of his work, including those nocturnes, which is common for second-rate composers: great ideas, but they lose the thread in development. Could you give examples, just because you don't like the development doesn't mean its bad, his nocturnes are the best in the tradition after Chopin
Luke Thompson
>why is renaissance and baroque music more enjoyable than classical Lack of a unified style, each first rate composer had a individual style and searched for their own voice. Baroque music was nationalistic in nature, which is why French had suites and Italians had Sonatas, this however was lost in the Classical era.
Landon Flores
have sex
Benjamin Torres
it's just a brahms quote... whatya think?
Eli Myers
BRAHMS?! If you're reading this i just wanted to say that I love you Brahms
I find it hard to get into Brahm's symphonic works. What's a good starting point?
Adrian Wright
>whatya think? It just brahms being a boomer pseud and realizing that his Idol wasn't THAT good
Robert Nguyen
Beethoven and by Beethoven I mean Mozart and by Mozart I mean Bach
Daniel Adams
Have you ever had the experience of learning to appreciate music as much as you think you could beyond just listening to it again and again until you get as much as you think you can out of it? That's what I would suggest for Brahms' symphonies, and a few of his other pieces, but if you fail to get the sense that he's all that, trust me, the fault isn't yours. He ultimately was just an imitative follower of Beethoven, but fell very short of his darling model. You can hear everything Brahms was really trying to accomplish stylistically in Beethoven's Egmont's, though done far better. He peaked in this first piano concerto, particularly in the first movements, (the latter two being obvious imitations of Beethoven's third piano concerto, especially the last movement), and especially right before the piano comes in, where we truly hear something that represented the same evolution from Beethoven that Beethoven represented from Mozart. For everything else Brahms wrote, however meritorious at times, Tchaikovsky really put it best by saying it was "self-inflated mediocrity [] hailed as [] genius."
Comparing Mozart's concertos with that of Beethoven's really shows the contrast between the composers. Elegance, easiness, prolificness were the gifts of the former, while profundity, daring, directness, and originality were the gifts of the latter.
Comparing the C minor concertos of the two composers makes reveals the same differences. It's really a matter of preference, though Mozart's work is much more subtle, and actually original, (for it was clearly the model of Beethoven's concerto, though that concerto was much less derivative of Mozart's than Hummel's Second was), but Beethoven's is much more consistent and passionate.
Michael Carter
Fuck off Hans
Ryder Sanchez
Yeah, Mozart is developing his themes very intensely in an extremely measured way but it feels so natural and easy, while with Beethoven you kinda get more of a "bigger picture" perspective. At least that's how I'd describe it.
Bentley Lee
Yes, the lute-harpsichord is great. I usually listen to his luite suites arranged for this instrument rather than for the lute.
There's a reason only a handful of his works are well-known: they are really good, but the rest are not.
Noah Cruz
>tfw heard "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" on the classical station an hour ago >tfw surprisingly felt myself getting aroused >listen to it again >want to jerk off
This piece is pornographic. I've heard plenty of "sexy" music, but I've never actually felt an urge to jerk off to a piece of music itself before. How did the madman do it?
Nationalist muh czechs composer so naturally not as good as non-ideologically driven composers, but he's still pretty good. I like his string quartets which were obviously influenced by Beethoven.
Angel Cox
I second this, the Berlin Phil recording with Karajan conducting. Shit blows my mind everytime I listen to it
Logan Sanchez
free chromaticism alone is like anal sex, sterile and kinda misguided and the boipucci will shit all over the place... once you base it in a diatonicism the arbitrariness turns into order and your high test man hands massage mommy's milkers
It is amazing how Bach reused material from the violin concertos and made them better in the Harpsichord concertos Just my taste i think the Harpsichord concertos are the definitive
Jordan Powell
I'm excited that I'll be hearing some live Bach played on the harpsichord next month.
bro i like rayf vaughan williams but theres no way hes better than mawluh
Benjamin Gutierrez
what do you think of this one?
Ayden Brown
learn to play fluently with f# tuning with capo on second fret, mabye with drop d buy some early music books then make the move to lute, vihuela, baroque guitar, theorbo, e.t.c. thats your key into basso continuo
Isaac Russell
do you think its possible to migrate to the gamba lad? how hard do you think the transition would be?
no idea mate depends how far you are down the guitar hole? if your technique is solid then your right hand shouldnt have too much trouble, ive heard bowing requires a relaxed hand if the left hand is same technique is same as regular strings you might have a tough time took me a long time to start to get my hands parallel to fretboard and i cant go back, not sure how wed fair on normal strings cos its the opposite
I listen to lots of classical music (orchestral, piano, etc.) and a wide variety of eras, but I can't quite get into string quartets. Where do I start, /classical/?
>some examples youtube.com/watch?v=P1CHImcrSzU The theme that comes in around 2:50 is trash and the transition to it is awkward. I've already mentioned the string quartet. The second violin sonata is a more extreme example, totally uninspired material that has never succeeded in the repertoire despite the popularity of his first. For the really first rate composers (an extreme rarity, mind you) avoiding these kinds of problems and producing music that flows naturally and feels unified is second-nature.
Lads, what age did you get into studying music? I was 7 or 9, and 11 when I started playing guitar. When did you start playing your instrument, also?
Carter Hernandez
I can't think of any similar pieces that everybody doesn't already know that are actually good. However, as far as somewhat obscure good piano concertos go, I can recommend, the first movement of Hummel's Second Concerto, probably the best music he ever wrote, and excessively neglected.
Started playing guitar at like 10. Started seriously studying music theory around 14/15. I will admit I still don't know a lot of common practice theory but I don't really care about that style 2bh
Carter Sanchez
I probably do not know many of the similar, famous pieces. If I am lacking one of those in my playlist, please let me know.
Thomas Nguyen
More or less at 16, which is quite a shame. My mom really begged me to let her teach me piano when I was a kid, but I was too lazy and never took her seriously. It was until she proposed a private teacher that I decided to take the plunge, and even then I barely studied. I really regret not playing the piano when younger. I feel seriously ill when I think about the level I'd have by now if I hadn't been a stupid piece of shit. One of my most important goals is making up for the lost time, but I fear college is going to consume me. I don't want to die without ever playing my beloved Rachmaninoff
Wyatt Smith
The link you posted takes me to the third concerto, so I wonder if you made a mistake with it or if you really meant third in your post.
Rach's two concertos, (first and fourth don't count). Liszt second. That's it. Even Liszt's second isn't that great and isn't that stylistically similar, but it's something. At least I remember what the fuck I heard beyond the first few bars. Medner's second is better than his first, but it along with pretty much every piano concerto after Brahm's second and before Rachmaninoff's are extremely, extremely mediocre, and I challenge anybody to give a counter example. I meant the third. Writing "second" was the mistake.
Jace Bailey
First, please understand how incredibly difficult the instrument is. It takes a lot time, effort, and money. Learning the violin does not allow room for laziness. If you can practice daily without failure, you’ll stop sounding like shit about 2 or 3 years into learning.
Sebastian Cooper
Is it? I fear it is not, as I will be soon heading off to college and will have little time available. After that? There's work and partners and maybe kids. Where do you find the time after you've become a grown man? Don't get me wrong, I'll never stop looking for it, but I do despair when I think about it sometimes.
When did you start and at what level are you? I've been playing for two years and am wrapping up Chopin's Op. 25 No. 1, which supposedly means I have a good pace right now. Planning to take up Mussorgsky's Great Gate of Kiev, which looks insanely easy, after this. Long term, my grails are Rachmaninoff's Moments Musicaux No. 6 and Chopin's Ballade No. 1, although I would also like, in the medium term, to play the memes (Liebenstraum, Fantasie Impromptu, etc).
Oliver Thomas
Also Henselt's concerto. Again, hardly great music, and not really of the same style as Medtner's, but there is some similarity. Mediocre romantic pianos concertos like Henselt's are a dime-a-dozen, (it seems like every virtuoso, no matter how devoid of composition ability, produced a concerto to show off his skills), but I think they are generally better than late-romantic concertos, if only by accident of having more firm structures because of a latent Classical influence. Concertos by Medtner, Scriabin, Rimsky-Korsakov, Paderewski, Saint-Saens, Rubinstein, etc., are moments of directionless inspriation sandwhiched between aimless filler.
Hunter Lee
The Rach Concertos are already in my playlist and I listen to them pretty much all the time.
>first and fourth don't count
I like the fourth, you should give it a try, The first I've never listened to, but I've been meaning to.
I've never seriously listened to Liszt concertos. He is, in my eyes, simply a pianist. Probably should check them out.
>pretty much every piano concerto after Brahm's second and before Rachmaninoff's are extremely, extremely mediocre, and I challenge anybody to give a counter example.
Now this I don't know, but I do like music that is contemporary and posterior to Rach. If you know any...
Aiden Baker
>He is, in my eyes, simply a pianist. Probably should check them out. Totentanz is much better than his Second Concerto, but if you're really ignorant of what Liszt wrote, that something you should correct by listening to his most popular works, including the Rhapsodies, the Transcendental Etudes, the Pagainini Etudes, the Sonata, the Mephisto Waltzes, the Don Juan Réminiscences, and Réminiscences de 'Robert le diable', and the Three Concert Études.
Lincoln Stewart
I've heard wonders of the Saint-Saens concerto, why are you so dismissive? I haven't heard it, but his other work gives me reason to be hopeful
Michael Clark
>Saint-Saens concerto He wrote several, and like so many romantic concertos, it's moments of inspiration with totally forgetful fluff as filler. >but his other work gives me reason to be hopeful You've probably listened to only of his best music. Everything else is the very definition of mediocre.
Andrew Adams
>directionless inspriation sandwhiched between aimless filler.
Sometimes, even the best concertos can feel like this. Its a problem music with a long format tends to have. It must be insanely hard to produce pieces that are throughly inspiring AND 30 minutes long.
Nicholas Collins
What the best recording of Beethoven’s 9th for headphones?
Jaxon Ortiz
What are the best earphones for classical music? Particularly romantic / early modern piano and piano concertos.
Jackson Phillips
>even the best concertos can feel like this I can pick any of Mozart's concertos, (even the ones that were adaptions of other people's works and ones he wrote as a child), and get more out of it than almost any Romantic piano concerto, especially the later they are.
yeah the concert is in New England too (Tanglewood) so i guess that's probably the choice. but i've seen the other Beethoven pieces before, but not the Brahms/Schumann
Liam Cooper
how can i watch the Proms if i dont live in the UK?
Tyler White
new
Michael Williams
Underages not allowed here.
Carter Allen
forced into guitar at 4 theory at 7 only became willing at 16
