King's Crossing - Elliot Smith

That doesn't mean he didn't stab himself. He was a drug addict with severe mental problems who had attempted suicide before.

How is that evidence?
Not what user asked for
The first.

Sorry. I forgot to mention that some people believe he was killed by a drug dealer that he owed money to. Their theory is the dealer stabbed him and threatened the gf not to talk.

>you know nothing about
we got a mind reader over here

Attached: 1541589107403.jpg (250x223, 6K)

because when you stab yourself there are usually hesitation marks.

>the first

how does it make the most sense?

Given his history, the first.

>usually
But not always right?

stabbing yourself through the chest is very difficult

So is becoming a famous singer/songwriter, but somehow he did it

check out these two songs
youtube.com/watch?v=PNwbQTF37p8
youtube.com/watch?v=EAhD0Wm9PfM

rocknyc.live/five-reasons-why-elliott-smiths-death-is-probably-not-a-suicide.html

An extremely depressed drug addict with a history of suicide attempts killing himself makes more sense than his girlfriend (who, as far as we know had no history of violent behavior and no financial motive) stabbing him. Also, the first stab wound was only two inches (justiceforelliottsmithcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/autopsy-1.jpg) so the two stabs aren't really suspicious.

I started listening to Elliott Smith after hearing Kermit the Frog sing Needle in the Hay.

youtube.com/watch?v=5oEYMGL0ZtA

What makes more sense is that if 1 person gets stabbed during an argument it's because the other person stabbed them. Also convenient that someone with first aid training pulled the knife out of his chest.

the way the guitar sounds melted is thanks to the hughes and kettner tube rotosphere

Yeah, it probably was a murder. I'd never really seen any of the evidence pointing toward homicide before.

>What makes more sense is that if 1 person gets stabbed during an argument it's because the other person stabbed them.
Not really, since one person does not have a violent prior, but the other *does* have a history of suicide and depression/mental illness
>Also convenient that someone with first aid training pulled the knife out of his chest.
Because she panicked. It' not really suspicious, it's reasonable.

Based

She believed that she was owed money for being in a relationship with Elliott and she sued twice to get it. She claimed they had an oral contract. = Financial motive.

Sounds like she was better off with him alive then, to validate her claims.

Nice try though. Use logic please.

When taken in totality (suicides by stabbing are rare, they were in the middle of an extremely heated argument, according to his friends Smith was in a good mood and productive musically, no hesitation wounds, defensive wounds on hand, someone trained in first aid removing the knife) it seems more likely that she killed him. The only things that point to suicide are his personal troubles and the suicide note (which might have been forged).

Also she's half-Japanese.

How would you rank his albums? For me it's from a basement > roman candle > either/or > elliott smith > new moon > xo > figure 8
Awesome

>she was better off with him alive then, to validate her claims

Only if the claims were true.

I just got into him a few days ago but a basement and either/or are really good

>according to his friends Smith was in a good mood
This doesn't mean shit though, you always hear friends of people who commit suicide are shocked right afterwards because "they seemed so happy." I also think Elliott was enough of a crazy fucked-up badass to have stabbed himself, rare and painful a suicide method as that is. I'm 50/50 on there having been foul play btw, kinda just half-playing devil's advocate.
kek

>suicides by stabbing are rare
See >no hesitation wounds
Yes, that has been known to happen
>someone trained in first aid removing the knife
Already addressed. See >The only things that point to suicide are his personal troubles and the suicide note
This is they key. This is the smoking gun, err, knife
Can you prove otherwise?

Or is this just typical incel women-hating?

If you like those then you more than likely will like all of his albums. If you happen to enjoy all of that then you might enjoy the stuff he did before his solo career with his band Heatmiser.

justiceforelliottsmithcom.wordpress.com/

...

It's not conclusive, but too many odd and unlikely things that point in the direction of murder. One or two of them and I'd dismiss it, but not this many.

agree

so it's worth it to venture past XO?

Too bad him and Jon Brion didn't do more together. He's how I discovered Smith

Not that guy. I'm this guy You will enjoy most of it for sure

>but too many odd and unlikely things that point in the direction of murder.
Literally not how actual murder cases are made.

Also, if it took being "odd" to convict someone of murder, there'd be no one left on Yea Forums.

This isn't an actual murder case, this is weighing the evidence on either side to figure out which is more likely.

>The coroner reported that no traces of illegal substances or alcohol were found in Smith's system at the time of his death but did find prescribed levels of antidepressant, anxiolytic, and ADHD medications, including clonazepam, mirtazapine, atomoxetine, and amphetamine.

holy fucking shit. meanwhile I find it hard to manage taking my wellbutrin lol.

Alright guys we had a nice laugh. Lets just sit back and enjoy the music. RIP

No wonder he was so paranoid all the time, Jesus Christ

Yeah even figure 8 is good, just somewhat lackluster. The posthumous stuff is amazing.

The problem is you start with this and end up with Tom Grant types claiming Chiba is a murderer

Also
>wow it's so odd that a crack addict, who was molested as a child, who previously attempted suicide, actually killed himself
>wow it's so odd that a civilian might have forgotten an obscure medical training that she had no practice for in her real life whatsoever
>wow it's so odd there were no hesitation marks, even though there's literal documented cases of this happening
>wow it's so odd that a famous person made a verbal agreement to a girlfriend at some pint in time
What's this really about?

>rocknyc.live/five-reasons-why-elliott-smiths-death-is-probably-not-a-suicide.html

Read this and tell me his death isn't suspicious.

See Then see
independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/elliott-smith-last-word-on-a-tormented-rock-hero-8915555.html

>“I'm convinced that he committed suicide,” insists Schultz. “Everybody I interviewed for the book who would talk about that agreed, with maybe one exception – and that was someone who didn't know Elliott all that well. We're talking about a person who had overdosed numerous times in the last couple of years of his life, had cut himself, had always been depressed, was going through the difficult process of getting off the drugs that he was addicted to – and who was still feeling deeply paranoid because of all the crap he had used. He was suspicious of people spying on him, of trying to kill him. He was not in his right mind for the last two years of his life.”

There is also accounts of Elliott admitting he actually attempted stabbing himself in the chest in the bast.

justiceforelliottsmithcom.wordpress.com/

Gay

youtube.com/watch?v=3VivPgfY-7Q

fake news

...

you lucky bastard. soak it all in.

I don't understand this. He created some of the best harrowing folk rock in existence. Why is that useless?

He's a brainlet farming (You)'s just ignore him

They're honestly all great but I'd go with: Either/Or > Elliott Smith > Basement > Roman Candle > Figure 8 > New Moon > XO

>hughes and kettner tube rotosphere
hey thanks for the gear heads up. how'd you find this info? any more essential gear they used in these sessions? i was just reading something from McDonnell, the guy Elliott was recording with:
>Here’s something I thought would have been groundbreaking: Two songs—"A Passing Feeling” and “Shooting Star”—were gonna be mixed in mono all the way up until a certain point where they’d break into stereo. We mixed those two songs that way, and there were moments when we cried listening to them. The impact was so profound. Anyway, the family never found those mixes for whatever reason. Also, the fact that it’s missing two of the best songs is too bad. One of them is “True Love Is a Rose” and the other one was called “True Friends / See You in Heaven.” It’s not that I’m bitter about that stuff, I just think the record would have been even more impactful. But I wasn’t going to stick my nose in the family’s business. They had just lost their son and they were grieving. It wasn’t my place to do that.

>An extremely depressed drug addict with a history of suicide attempts
Incorrect. If you're using the Georgia cliffs example, he didn't jump but was running through the woods in the dark.
>girlfriend (who, as far as we know had no history of violent behavior and no financial motive) stabbing him
she has had a history of making threats with knives. She sued his estate for control and lost. She then sued her lawyer who lost the case. She was also his drug dealer.

Additionally, she was seen taking things from his studio less than 24 hours after his death. Numerous accounts from friends say that Smith was going to break up with her as well.

>There is also accounts of Elliott admitting he actually attempted stabbing himself in the chest in the bast.
No there are not.
>Schultz
Literally the absolute worst person you could ever cite for evidence. He went to one source for his book (Chiba) and numerous things are verifiably false in it. Additionally the title of his book, is a misheard lyric that he has tried to pass off as real numerous times. Absolute con-artist.

>in existence
listen to more music before you make retarded claims like that.

>I disagree therefore you are a troll
200 IQ

Then name one person you think produces more harrowing songs in a similar genre.

>this source is so bad, what a con artist!
>coincidentally his source was a person we hate, even without evidence!
WOW AMAZING HOW THAT WORKS

Have sex.

Interviewing one source does not make that source reliable. Ideally, a book would interview Elliott's friends and Chiba extensively, but no one has done that yet.

Right, luckily he interviewed tons of sources

Most likely she stabbed him during that fight because he wanted to end the relationship. Oh well. I'm glad she lost her lawsuit to take some of Elliott's money.

It's crazy that she would even think of doing that.

at the very least, she caused his death by removing the knife. Which she should have known not to do as a LICENSED CRISIS THERAPIST.

Have sex

this

With you?

He was also about to finish/release an album he was very passionate about, and had s lot of other stuff going for bis life at the time that it wouldn't make sense for him to an hero when he was puttting so much time and effort into finishing projects. His "history" isnt as bad as people make it out, besides writing sad songs ofc, altho i dont even feel most of his songs r really that sad. I find them optimistic or like anti-suicidal/giving up and positive.

youtube.com/watch?v=5XbveBHMbws

WOULDN'T NEED A HERO IF I WASN'T SUCH A ZERO

I meant suing for the money.

Crazy enough to sue for the money. Maybe crazy enough to stab someone if you tried to leave her and take your money with you.

not just sue for the money. Sue for the money, lose, then sue the lawyer you had hired to win you the money lmao.

Suing the lawyer you hired seems to be almost universal proof that a person is highly unstable.

checked. She is crazy

Yeah, but his music was pretty good

Maybe, lots of great artist aren't great humans outside of their art. What's your point?

>ctrl+f
>Kiwi Maddog 20/20
>0 results
/Yea Forums really has gone to shit
youtube.com/watch?v=NT6ds9DE8gY

>she was seen taking things from his studio less than 24 hours after his death
that's so low

youtube.com/watch?v=X8MiP0n68fI

It fits well on the album but it's not something I return to. The stories of being abused, the subsequent anger, and coping is what I enjoy.

Maybe it's just because XO was my first, but I fucking love it and never get why everyone seems to rank it lowest. It's tied with Roman Candle for me, but as a few people have said, all his albums are great.

I'm more or less of the opinion that they get progressively worse, but none of them are bad.

>you don't deserve to be lonely
>but those drugs you got won't make you feel better

Not as worthless as you tho

Chiba did it.

youtube.com/watch?v=p4cJv6s_Yjw

>pretty soon youll see its the only
>little part of your life youre keeping together

(you) farmer

I'm a huge Elliott fan, but From a Basement on the Hill is unironically a pleb filter album. Every album before and after (New Moon) is way better

Troll better, jackass

I didn't know that, that's awesome. I have a friend who used to use one on keys, sounded amazing.

Elliott Smith > XO = Either/Or > Roman Candle > Figure 8 > New Moon >>>>>>>>>> From a Basement

Everything except From a Basement is good. He didn't have enough of a hand in the production so while there are good bits, it doesn't feel like a real Elliott Smith album

Some of Nick Drake's stuff is about equal.

Miss Misery at the Oscars

youtube.com/watch?v=pIccE3CUNkM

From a Basement has some of his best songs (Twilight, kings crossing, and a fond farewell in particular) but yeah it definitely suffers from not being more refined before he died

I think Twilight and Fond Farewell are good, but are kind of rehashes of songs that were done better on older albums. Kings Crossing is a masterpiece, Coast to Coast would be too if it wasn't for the poetry

based

yeah it's Pure Kino

You've probably listened to this but I'll post.

youtube.com/watch?v=V_gfza-cbBQ&t=541s

>Everything except From a Basement is good. He didn't have enough of a hand in the production so while there are good bits, it doesn't feel like a real Elliott Smith album
I don't agree with this at all. From a Basement has the grit of his earlier work while retaining the expanded instrumentation he used on his major label records. It might be unfinished but it's his most beautiful work.

It had grit but not the same type as Roman Candle or Elliott Smith. It feels thrown together (yes, I know it essentially was) and has tons of filler, it's too long an album. Figure 8 was almost as long but there's only one song I'm not crazy about on it. I can't say the same about From a Basement.

>When asked what Smith would have thought of the album, McConnell told Benjamin Nugent, "I don't think he would have delivered [that] record. The record he would have delivered would have had more songs, would have had different mixes and [been] a little more in-your-face."[18] Schnapf also expressed that the final result that he and Bolme had produced was not the album that Smith would have made, simply because Elliott was not around to finish the album. Bolme also said that they did not add anything to the songs, and only mixed whatever had been recorded: "I would never presume to add anything. We didn't add anything."[19]

what song don't you like on figure 8?

In the Lost and Found (Honky Bach), apart from that I think it's underrated. A lot of incredible tunes on there

man, that is one of my favorites. the bridge is great.

youtube.com/watch?v=xUe5k3YLcyQ

He tried to commit suicide multiple times before. Everything else doesn't make any sense. I don't know how anyone could stab themselves twice in the chest without any hestitation. From what I recall he was sober at the time as well

However if it was a fight, wouldn't she just say it was in self defense or something?

>dislikes "In The Lost And Found" from Figure 8
>discourages others to listen to From A Basement
Yeah man, it seems we just have different tastes. I'm disagreeing hard on these onions of yours.

The piano playing is so mesmerizing, and the way the vocals are all layered sounds so warm and comfy.

Let's not forget FABOTH was going to be a double LP, but when the guy died they decided to exclude some really good songs he was working on in order to make it a normal LP

I agree on the bridge, it's beautiful. I just really dislike the rest.

fight as in an argument. I was saying she got mad and stabbed him, most likely because he was going to leave her.

It's a shame they treated his legacy that way

basement would have been his best album if he stayed alive to finish it

>youtube.com/watch?v=FuxAjkzD2pw
>youtube.com/watch?v=LZwmxBmUNhs
>youtube.com/watch?v=GyHcni_wXvg
>youtube.com/watch?v=wzDLUXN6hAM

the best songs that he planned for the album are not on the official release

Aside from True Love, the songs there are great. See You In Heaven and Suicide Machine in particular. It very well could have been one of his best albums

Just listen to all of it and you'll be okay.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Smith_discography

youtube.com/watch?v=6MIRLLWb6Lc&t=59s

youtube.com/watch?v=EyXrjNBwbBw&list=PLCzlBGjP1ScT-JtSgjGOKLL-vNKaWD2Zb

discogs.com/Elliott-Smith-Grand-Mal-Studio-Rarities-Expanded/release/6399221