What’s the musical equivalent of pic related?

something """complex""" like mars volta

meme politics

In 20 years are people going to be nostalgic about Material UI like they are now about 90s? I hope not that sounds pathetic.

It's inevitable.

Literally John Cage's 4'33"

whatever pleases your ego

Meme *philosophy* you spooky goose.

This. Alternatively it can also be listening to or claiming to listen to music you don't actually care about purely to gain clout and status in a social group that you want to influence.

I could see a few interpretations of this.

For one, Max Stirner was a major influence on left-anarchism, which anarcho-punk is obviously informed by. The particularly literate, philosophical groups like Crass, Zounds, The Ex, and especially the borderline-outsider music of Rudimentary Peni stand out.

DIY-minded punk bands from Fugazi to Missing Foundation also stand out.

There have been a lot of obsessive, belligerent, genius figures in both classical and jazz, notably Beethoven, Charles Mingus, and Miles Davis.

The other thing that comes to mind is people who destroyed convention to fulfill their vision, like Ornette Coleman.

There are some individualist songwriters who defiantly turned their sometimes-frowned upon music into their own trademark strengths, like Serge Gainsbourg, Tom Waits, Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa, and Syd Barrett.

There are, of course, bands in metal, industrial, and other genres that tried to crush social mores, sometimes in crude ways like GG Allin, Mayhem, Archgoat, and Whitehouse, and sometimes in possibly more sophisticated ones like Throbbing Gristle and Boyd Rice.

There are also artists who promote an articulated philosophy of individuality, like Neil Young and Behemoth.

power noise
youtube.com/watch?v=cLdU-0wmW1M

>actually answering the question

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:/

youtube.com/watch?v=gtjSRQCKdAY&list=PLhX4yqa5P9MhZtQ-ISB824dKFY-jpAAkP&index=15

Too bad he doesn't actually understand what Stirner's philosophy is all about.

I've literally read The Ego and Its Own, as well as a couple books on the evolution of anarchism. Don't be a condescending piece of shit, I guarantee I probably know more about it than you do.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

If you think bands like Crass had anything to do with Stirner (directly or indirectly), or that people like Mingus owe anything to Stirner because they are "obsessive, belligerent, genius figures", then you either didn't actually read it, or you have the mental capacity of a toddler. Seriously, learn you shit before posting bullshit.

YOU learn your shit before saying shit, you mentally retarded Dunning-Kruger faggot.

I never said Mingus was influenced in any way by Stirner. But the core of Stirner's egoism is being true to one's self, without concern for the expectations, values, or false constructs of society. Obsessive geniuses like Mingus seem to fit that ideal.

As for Crass, Penny Rimbaud is an extremely individualistic anarchist. I've never heard Rimbaud cite Stirner as an influence, but people like Emma Goldman and Peter Kropotkin are clearly influences on him, and Stirner was a major influence on both of those people.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you should kill yourself, you condescending, pseudo-intellectual piece of shit.

boop

We get it, you have big brain, now go hang yourself from the basement's ceiling

I'm the guy who made the recommendations
maybe I came on too strong, the other guy seems to have left
I gotta stop getting sucked into these stupid arguments
I try to offer something constructive, and then some jackass condescendingly insults me, and covers the fact he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about by being evasive. I have read that stuff, and I feel like I know it well. If I don't understand something, please be specific and correct me. But no, it's always blind insults.
I like this place because of the quick feedback, and because I honestly just like writing/typing. But sometimes I kinda hate this place.

/blog

music is a spook

He's only influential on left anarchists when it conveniences them to criticize abstract ideals that some rightists hold onto. A majority of left anarchists also hold abstract moralistic views that his philosophy could easily dispel. Stirner is much more compatible with the ultra-individualist right (Rand, Mises, Rothbard) than left anarchists.

This. Ever since I've peaked into the realm of political philosophy I haven't understood why Stirner is worshiped by Ancoms when he clearly places the individual over the collective

No, his ideas are actually pretty fundamental, especially to people like Emma Goldman.

youtube.com/watch?v=aM8jTQjY3d4

Also, Stirner was critical of capitalism.

He's influential to the individualist anarchists/insurgent types. Ancoms don't like him

tool because stirner is bad

ouch

...except that he's a key influence on major anarcho-syndicalists
but you're right, he's much more important to individualist anarchists than ancoms. However, it's important not to conflate individualist anarchists with anarcho-capitalists. The classical individualist anarchists were not right wing, and were critical of capitalism and nationalism. In fact, they were really more anti-nationalism than the ancoms. AnCaps are influenced by individualist anarchism, but they're really their own thing, and they're better understood as part of the capitalist, classical liberal school of thought.

He was critical of the entrepreneurial mindset that encourages people to dedividualize themselves and sacrifice to make money, he didn't have a systematic critique of capitalism like Marx or Proudhon. Modern Proudhonist anarchists who are influenced by Stirner don't define capital the same way Marx did, they're okay with markets and money, just not property protected by the state, land rent, etc.

If the whole group benefits and I benefit alongside the group, it is in my best interest to support the group. Frankly I just do whats in my own best interest and for myself, that's having a strong support network for all of society. For a benefit to the group is a benefit to me, I couldn't care less about most of the moralfaggotry but don't wish for bad things to happen in fear of them happening to myself.

He still definitely fits with anarcho-punk. Crass is very individualist anarchist.

>the core of Stirner's egoism is being true to one's self, without concern for the expectations, values, or false constructs of society. Obsessive geniuses like Mingus seem to fit that ideal.
There is no way to tell. Bono might as well be the same king of egoist as Mingus, and it doesn't require to be a genius to fit Stirner's ideal. You entire post is super flawed.

>Penny Rimbaud is an extremely individualistic anarchist
Which is not the same as being an individualist anarchist of the Stirner kind.

>You don't know what the fuck you're talking about
Says the guy who said some guy who couldn't even control his temper was an exemplification of Stirner's philosophy lmao what a hack you are

>I try to offer something constructive
Good for you. You want a pat in the back now? Offering shitty "constructive" advice is not welcome. Know what you are talking about before opening your mouth.

>But no, it's always blind insults.
Because in your specific case it can be read from afar that it comes from a pseud who has no idea what he's talking about. Your entire post is pure cringe. Someone who was at least a bit more aware of Stirner's philosophy wouldn't have much such an atrocious post.

>obsessive, belligerent, genius figures like Charles Mingus are representative of Stirner's philosophy in music
Jesus Christ lmao

>...except that he's a key influence on major anarcho-syndicalists
really? that seems weird

Yeah I meant people like Novatore
"anarcho" capitalists is a misnomer anyway

Oh, and forgot to add
>it's always blind insults
Maybe the problem is you and everybody else is capable of telling your bullshit right away.

>Stirner was critical of capitalism.
So was Frank Zappa and yet the guy was a right-wing libertarian. What a moron.

>"anarcho" capitalists is a misnomer anyway
By the same logic calling classical liberals anything other than left-wing would be a misnomer as well.

You're an idiot. You didn't make a single meaningful point here. The entire thing is just whining and vaguely calling it flawed.

No one has "called me on my bullshit," but now it's obvious I just really upset you because to you Stirner is just a meme in your own meme right wing ideology, and you don't actually care about the history of his ideas. That's sad. Hopefully one day you'll actually learn to engage with his ideas.

I quoted the specific Mingus example and how bad it is of an example. There is no reason to believe Mingus followed a philosophy similar to that of Stirner's anymore than that of someone like fucking Bono, and describing him by using terms like "obsessive, belligerent, genius" shows how clueless you are when it comes to labeling someone as a "Stirnerite musician".

>it's obvious I just really upset you because to you Stirner is just a meme in your own meme right wing ideology
Jokes on you, I'm not right-wing, and I don't dislike Stirner. I'm just calling you out on your bullshit, as Stirner himself is fine as a philosopher.

>Hopefully one day you'll actually learn to engage with his ideas.
You are the one who should try to make sensible arguments next time you debate instead of making superfluous and even meaningless remarks about people. You really, really are a joke of a pseud.

Forgot to add >and describing him by using terms like "obsessive, belligerent, genius" shows how clueless you are when it comes to labeling someone as a "Stirnerite musician" when those terms have absolutely nothing to do with being Stirnerite-like.
I swear, your post is retarded as fuck, and you don't even realize it. Please, please re-read what you originally posted and try to count the amount of bullshit you went through. It's incredible, you have no idea, and people already say a bunch of stupid shit on here all day.

No, you're just hyperventilating and crying. I can see through your bullshit, and you're an idiot. Kill yourself already, you don't know the first thing about Max Stirner. I literally just listed some individualistic musicians who pushed against social mores, since that's the general theme of Stirner's philosophy, and you've spent the last two hours sperging out about it. You should genuinely kill yourself, you sad little man.

Milk Shop.

>no argument after being called out on their bullshit
Like clockwork.

>individualistic musicians
>who pushed against social mores
You don't have to be individualistic to push boundaries, so that's the first clue you are talking out of your ass.
Also, people like Mingus and Davis were definitely not individualist, as they were still stuck believing spooks (like Miles' comment on race and Mingus' lack of self-control).

You are a joke.

>you've spent the last two hours sperging out about it
I literally only made like three comments with each taking me like 5 minutes to write. It's obvious you are desperate at trying to save face here despite not realizing wer are on an anonymous imageboard. It's okay to admit you were being an idiot, everybody else will forget in a few hours.

I personally align more with Camus

I'm sorry.

>You don't have to be individualistic to push boundaries, so that's the first clue you are talking out of your ass.
I never said you had to be an individualist to push boundaries, you're literally twisting my words. I pointed to Mingus as someone focused on his own vision, and he happened to be belligerent about it, ignoring societal expectations. I also listed some individualistic musicians, of which I did not list him.

You're intellectually dishonest given how you twist what I say, but you're probably too fucking stupid to follow that. Neck yourself.

That's absurd, I'm very happy, you being upset is pointless in the scope of what I believe is the meaning of life.
>:D

>I never said you had to be an individualist to push boundaries
But you still mentioned it, despite there being no reason to do so. You know why you did it? Because you were talking out of your ass while having no idea what Stirner's philosophy is all about.

>I pointed to Mingus as someone focused on his own vision, and he happened to be belligerent about it, ignoring societal expectations.
That could be said about most artists ever. That doesn't mean they are following a Stirner-like philosophy. That's another reason your post reeks of bullshit.

>You're intellectually dishonest given how you twist what I say
No, I'm not twisting what you are saying, I'm pointing out the bullshit you are saying and why there is no need to mention that bullshit UNLESS you are implying the stupid shit you say is me "twisting your words".

I posted different types of people following different qualities of Stirner's philosophy.

You're not engaging with what I actually said, and it's because you're extremely triggered by something. Probably because you misunderstand something about Stirner, and despite what you say you want him to be more of a right wing libertarian, to the exclusion of his impact on the left. Or something. Idk.

This is pointless. You're not actually mad at the very simple points I made, you're mad about something else that you won't be honest about. Keep crying. But you are an idiot.

two Egoists argue that they are correct and the other is not.
>wew lads

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>I posted different types of people following different qualities of Stirner's philosophy.
Out of which people like Mingus, Davis and Beethoven have absolutely nothing to do with considering that you mentioned they were "obsessive, belligerent, genius".
I don't know why you haven't realized this yet, but
THE EXAMPLES YOU PROVIDED ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO STIRNER
Because they are unrelated to his philosophy, I'm calling you out on your bullshit. Just accept the fact that you mentioned a bunch of artists with no real reason (because they were genius? lmao) to call them Stirner-like.

>despite what you say you want him to be more of a right wing libertarian
What are you even talking about? The guy who's talking about a right wing libertarian Stirnerite is this guy , not me. Image being this desperate to defend yourself on the bullshit you say.

>You're not actually mad at the very simple points I made
I'm mad at you for making that big pile of pseud-shit. I already mentioned a specific example (I don't want to go one by one on all your flawed examples, even if some of them might be right because you were lucky). In Mingus case, mentioning he was a genius as a consideration for him being Stirner-like is retarded. That's one specific example of what I'm mad about. I really can't explain this to you in much simpler terms, but that does explain at least why you have read his book and only have a meme-tier grasp from his philosophy.

>you're mad about something else that you won't be honest about
No, it really is at you having made such a retarded post. Other users made retarded posts too, but those can be dismissed as just shitposting, but yours in particular was serious, which I found hilarious.

>obsessive, belligerent, genius
Those things have nothing to do with Stirner.

>notably Beethoven, Charles Mingus, and Miles Davis
Davis would get upset at white people trying to "own" jazz (because black music was "owned" by black people), which is a hard spooks flag.
Mingus was religious, so that is, again, a hard spooks flag.
Needless to say, Beethoven was religious as well.

Terrible list, seriously, and I could go on with some other examples. I mean, Boyd Rice would even hang out with fascists and just read this shit
>Rice founded a group called the Abraxas Foundation along with Holocaust-denier Keith Stimley. The Abraxas Foundation published a newsletter called WAKE, which told its readers that "nature adheres to an Immutable Order" in short, humanity is democratic, nature is fascist.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Neither about Stirner, nor about the artists you mentioned.

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Village People.