Classical vs Jazz

Jazz is just random noise. Not melodic at all.

There's no point in listening to classical unless you play instruments... because you're going to hear it in movies and tv shows anyway.

Jazz is like throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks. Classical is a fine developed flower showering in the sun

this

rap > jazz > classical

This you get classical and jazz within rap. Just like every other genre it's a sampling sport

What kind of unabashed retard can’t appreciate both?

Also I’m pretty sure that 90% of the dumb dumbs shitting on jazz but praising classical to the skies are just /pol/-tier teens who couldn’t even tell you what makes a given classical work great and only hold it in such high esteem because “muh white European heritage”

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Classical is literally baby music.
And that’s assuming you’re not talking the Walter White of music, Igor Stravinsky.

>am I the only one who enjoys both???
>just shut up and listen to the music d( -_- )b stop having a discussion
>lmao /pol/ XDDD
worst comment on Yea Forums atm
jazz is superior by the way, it's just classical music with soul

Literally nothing of intelligence is being discussed ITT.

Reminder: Ironic shitposting is still shitposting

no that's indian classical

are you implying anything "of intelligence" is ever discussed on Yea Forums.
this thread is high culture compared to the average thread here

This

so true

very much these

sure, but late 1900s free jazz a la David S Ware > all other music

this might be the dumbest post i've read this month

>White man's music vs Black man's music

Gee, I wonder which one wins out

omg stravinsky, so quirky rawr :3 ^-^

Jazz and classical are pretty much equal when doing what great art does and responds to and captures moments in time. Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima is equal to Coltrane’s Alabama is equal to There’s a Riot Goin’ On is equal to Deceit

Daily reminder that Beethoven was definitely mixed

niggers

WE WUZ EVERYONE N SHIEEET

you clearly haven’t read about Beethoven

>Jazz is just random noise

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Classical but this really is an unfair comparison. Its like trying to compare a modern car to a golf cart.

>thousand year old art music tradition vs. hundred year old mostly popular music genre
Why compare this?

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The human brain picks up on tempo, rhythm, Melody, dissonants, etc. (Relatively) structured music will always be superior.

>The human brain picks up on tempo, rhythm, Melody, dissonants, etc.
Correct... and?
>(Relatively) structured music will always be superior.
Now this is a leap. Why is it superior?

>Classical vs Jazz
Music isn't a competition.

I prefer jazz but classical easily wins solely on the basis that it's been round for centuries longer

Because the brain seeks that structure, it creates feelings of enjoyment to hear a rhythm that can be followed without too many crazy derailments.

>enjoyment
So hedonism is superior?

Far from it. I trust you can still proceed successfully through your day to day life when listening to music, and turning it off when necessary?

Discovering patterns and structure in music that seems unstructured to the immature listener is what makes both classical and jazz a joy to listen to. And why they’re often misunderstood or not appreciated by immature listeners.

I agree. You need some musical experiences to get this kind of music; either by studying music/scores, playing instruments in general. Most people don't have this so it's a chore to listen to classical and jazz.

I don’t think actual musical experience is always definitely needed to appreciate jazz or classical. But it definitely helps.

Both genres contain extremely accessible material alongside extremely inaccessible material.

>Funny then that most jazz artists are competent classical players while it’s very rare to find a classical performer who doesn’t shit the bed when asked to play jazz.
it's almost as if classical players don't care about jazz and jazz artists started with classical training
also "competent" my ass they aren't nearly on the level of performing seriously

see

Jazz is degenerate negro music.
Classical is the music of kings.

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>”classical music is inherently superior to all other musical styles!”
>has never performed a Roman numeral analysis of a Bach chorale
>has never composed a fugue
>can’t sightread basic piano music and music on at least one other instrument
>has never seen a live opera
>couldn’t write a 2000 word essay about their favorite string quartet by Beethoven, Shostakovich, and Bartok

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Asking a Classical musician to play Jazz is insulting.

actual musicians probably have respect for both
kys you're worse than Yea Forums console wars

Only because they lack the skills to be able to do it.

Classical and jazz are obsolete. Electronic music is the future. And yes I know there is electronic classical and jazz but that's not what I'm talking about. Classical and jazz have nowhere else to go, there is no boundary left to be broken down, at least not one that makes a difference in the actual music. Meanwhile there are many new electronic artists pushing boundaries in a popular music context. Inb4 popular music is shit, that's a fedora-tier opinion.
Also classical before the 20th century was kinda shit. It was just "muh instruments", the revolution of electronic music is what opened the doors to actual interesting stuff.
>Beethoven, Shostakovich, Bartok, the list goes on

>Meanwhile there are many new electronic artists pushing boundaries in a popular music context.
What artists and what boundaries are they pushing?

obviously classical, but jazz is great.

>muh “boundaries”
>muh “relevance”
lmao want to know how I know you’re 16?

This.
They both have immense appeal for staggeringly different reasons.

Gonna need some better b8 m8

I'm 32 and I'm classically trained on five different instruments (guitar, piano, saxophone, vibraphone and banjo).
If you want to be that loser who listens to music because it "sounds good", that's totally fine, but that's not what really matters to people actually MAKING music.
Shlingom Snawkitz is the most important producer in the world right now but you won't hear about him outside of Uganda for about five more years, most likely.

So what is he doing that’s pushing boundaries?

you have no idea what you're talking about.

>writing different versions of the same music that was being written 60 years ago
>"meh obsolete and boring"

>writing different versions of the same music that was being written 60 years ago but playing it with goofy-sounding synthesizers and drum machines
>"woah so innovative and boundary pushing!!"

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This

Do u have any links to his music or anything?

>The intrigue and historical relevance of horse and carriage, Roccoco architecture, and Christian Europe vs The intrigue and historical relevance of '65 Thunderbird, late-modernist concrete Brutalist architecture, and secular urban America
It's a battle because.... ?

The only boundary electronic music is pushing is the sheer number of promises it abjectly failed at keeping.

retard NOI poster

Classical music has the ability to move me, whereas jazz has the ability to make me move

For the unintelligent and immature, the simple music will make the most sense as their brains aren't capable of picking up and understanding more complex, colorful and innovative music.

Messiaen's music used to be a repugnant mess for my ears, but as I have broadened my horizon, I know find some of his works to be intensely beautiful

Why would you listened to something you don't enjoy. Hedonism is obviously superior, as suffering (without doing so to gain future pleasure) only decreases your quality of life. If life is not lived to be enjoyed, it is not lived.

Jazz would not exist without Classical: Jazz was invented by White Europeans.

>classical music is soulless
Chopin, Beethoven, Debussy, and Scriabin invented soul

I do, but classical will always be better, only Jazz artists I rank highly are Monk, Evans, Tyner and Gershwin

This is retarded.
Both genres include abundances of awful and great music.

Nothing "against" jazz, but I find most of the jazz i've listened to to be interchangable background doodling, like just a step above elevator music but with more polyphony.
I said in a thread yesterday that every jazz piece or album I've heard gives me the impression the entire genre is one big massive 5/10 of not-great, but not-dull background music.

Now, Baroque and Romantic, and to a slightly lesser extent Modernist music, have very VERY distinct compositions, to the point you can usually "tell" which individual is composing it even without knowing beforehand. And most of it doesnt sound like background noise, but rather an engaging and purposeful narrative that expresses a personality or what i call an aesthetic "quest" or "reaching".

Classical era can sound kinda like jazz does:
Jazz (and to a lesser extent the classical of Haydn's and Mozart's time) to me often sounds like "let's just play for a few minutes", and you kinda end where you started: in this room, listening to dudes playing.

That's not necessarily "bad", but it just makes the entire genre seem a bit stagnant and redundant (swing, bebop, and post bop arent as distinct from eachother as the different classical periods do).

/end personal blog

Isn't it boring only enjoying piano music?

>be that loser who listens to music because it "sounds good",
Its why anyone listens to music you fucking mongoloid retarded brainlet bitchfaggot pseud nigger . Its why I think electronic music is the best as it has way more variables yet you care more the making itself which is not caring about the music.

I have a greater connection to jazz as I find jazz to be more intimate. Similar feelings in "classical" I've experienced listening to composers like Scriabin.

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If you've ever listened to Bach and felt nothing, you're the one with no soul
youtube.com/watch?v=GMkmQlfOJDk

what jazz have you listened to?

Oh your know, Davis, Coltrane, the list goes on

>If you want to be that loser who listens to music because it "sounds good", that's totally fine, but that's not what really matters to people actually MAKING music
are you dense?

I met a professional bassoon player who is in an orchestra and trained with the royal academy of music. He told me that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing with jazz and is in awe of good jazz musicians.

>I find jazz to be more intimate
Well you're quite stupid then. Jazz has always been, even in its most experimental side a musical performance and nothing more. Classic is about the very music and has very defined rules on what emotions it tries to bring out and in such ways.

>He told me that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing with jazz
Just tell him to pick a scale and play literally anything

reminder that, in spite of all the theory you know and all of the obscure music you've heard through your education and dedication to music, you've still not heard 99.99% of all music and cannot make claims like "the most important producer in the world" and "what really matters to people actually making music"

>ctrl+f jazz bassoonists

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yes very good very taste.

you know that guy mingus? he is very good too. listen to mingus ah um. good album. good times

imagine believing this.

if thats really the case. why dont you do it?

Maybe I will

Best recs to ease a classicalfag into jazz?
What jazz subgenre /era / composers / albums sound a bit closer to the formalism of classical to the extent it might not turn a total classicalfag off?

are you high

Neil Ardley - A Symphony Of Amaranths
Moondog – Moondog (1969)

I grew up on Jazz because my parents are obsessed with it and I played the saxophone as a kid, but I grew out of it and listen almost exclusively to classical now. Nothing else does it for me anymore. Jazz fans are also generally very cringe.

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Oh and also City of Glass: Stan Kenton Plays Bob Graettinger

I've actually heard this twice already and i absolutely despised it. I'll check the other ones out, thanks

>bassoon
ah the cream of the crop

Not when its this high quality
youtube.com/watch?v=eJPBWp0Yyo4
youtube.com/watch?v=apzSvM6Esdc
youtube.com/watch?v=UT7l1pUYmFI

I like jazz trios as long as there is no brass, classical ensembles are superior whether its chamber or orchestral. There is just something about Miles Davis blowing his trumpet that makes me wanna choke him nice and slowly

White people can’t Soul. Sucks for you.

t. brainlet nigger or self-hating white cuck
If the first one doesn't hit you emotionally, you might not have a soul to begin with

...

Soul is a European concept and word. Niggers culturally appropriating again and again and again...

people will tell you third stream but honestly start with bebop and go from there my man.

youtube.com/watch?v=iPrV80Ag0HU

Enough fighting children. Let's talk about the actual adult genre. Metal.

>Scriabin
my nigga

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If Mozart were alive today, he would play metal

Classical music is only for antisocial nerds trying to appear different and people who actually play in orchestras

rap

If Mozart were alive today, he would play rap metal

>antisocial nerds
Where do you think we are?

Stop projecting, Yea Forumsdrone.

At least you like symphonic and chamber music too.

This is more like it, thanks
Thanks. If i'm not mistaken the bebop tradition has a lot of their compositions like variations on a theme (in jazz's case perhaps "improvisations" on a theme I suppose). The few jazz pieces that kind of kept my interest seemed to have been bebop pieces. I'll look into bebop, thanks! Any personal favorites/recs ?

>Resort to racism because no argument
Typical...

reminder that all boards on Yea Forums are occupied by complete retards

Like

Sorry Jaquan, but not everyone in the world thinks Marvin Gaye is the peak of music like black mutts do.

>Mozart would abandon all notions of dynamic range and fluid tempos in favor of distorted guitar shredding

I could see Bach doing this

Yikes yikes and yikes

Dave Brubeck and Oscar Peterson were white though.

Fuck, I meant Bill Evans.

please have sex

Jazz either sounds like boring elevator music or horrible noise

I'm sure it takes a lot of talent, but it's still shit music

i prefer Jazz mostly because the sax is my second favorite instrument

>this is more like it
You might like this
youtube.com/watch?v=6KrLlKV8UiE

>call user a RACIST because SHUT IT DOWN
Typical...

Like

ah yes we should all stick to mary had a little lamb, dissonance and experimentation is bad.

recommending a classicalfag moondog is a great way to make them hate jazz permanently.

Russian/Impressionist orchestration is my fave, also here's my favorite chamber works
youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_3D7TLaYs
youtube.com/watch?v=PvkkduAWH40
youtube.com/watch?v=rEFGx0UdHe8
youtube.com/watch?v=HbktVzLDLXs

Scriabin is the main nigga

while classical music is more beautiful and complex it does not require much improvisation.this is where jazz shines...apples and oranges

soo high IQ

I'm gonna miss this thread :(

You're not listening properly

so much fucking cringe in this thread especially at the people saying classical musicians cant play jazz. absolute retards. none of you have ever been in a jazz band or an orchestra. myself and all the other musicians i know grew up playing in both kinds of ensembles and appreciating both greatly, there just comes a time when you make a choice as to what to focus on

petzold

Jazz is garbage
/thread

the thread that saved Yea Forums.

Classical music is generally born from improvisation - that of the composer. They use improvisation to generate material.
The composer then takes that material and turns it into a coherent piece. This is something that improvisation alone rarely achieves - coherence, economy of material, and carefully thought-out large or even small scale structures.

Improvisation used to be a large part of classical performance as well (cadenzas for example), which was partially lost, but has been reinstated since the 60s through aleatoricism.

Check this piece out, its written by a classical composer, but contains sections where the performer can freely improvise. Its very hard to tell where the written music ends and the improvisation begins:

youtube.com/watch?v=9gG0j-35Mgk&list=PLACC6D9F54557E330

^ This is also a big "WHY NOT BOTH?" for the entire thread, including OP

Classical + Jazz + Electronic is what's up.
Fly Lo got close and has been getting farther away with each subsequent release.

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Classical composers pioneered electronic music in the 50s and early 60s.

Find me an electronic piece more varied than this (1958):
youtube.com/watch?v=KwtAMGXyTI4
And yeah, its made with physical tape that has to be cut and spliced to be edited.

Third stream is jazz. Being composition based doesn't mean shit. Bernstein's woeful jazz-classical compositions, on the other hand...

Dumbest post of the month, and I'm in the classical camp. Jesus christ mate

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At least post a truly amazing bach composition.
youtube.com/watch?v=aPAiH9XhTHc

>No percussions
Look at this fucking dude

LOL, Half of Beethoven’s body is the size of Coltrane’s head.

Why you do this, OP? Both are delicious fruits from the same tree. If you fellas feel the need to compare, maybe you're not quite getting it.

Jazz tickles my ear more than classical does. Love both, but I like the rhythmic fuckery and odd melodic choices that Jazz brings to the table just that little bit more.

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>Find me an electronic piece more varied than this (1958):
reminds me of
>

>it does not require much improvisation
Literally wrong.

That's because jazz is too big

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People vs. monkeys

Answer is pretty obvious OP

A Jazz Symphony? Yeah I better leave this thread annoying me in the 1st page.

all these retards talking about the skill of the performers are retarded. compare composition and you'll see the truth.

Jazz wouldn't exist without Classical. I know that doesn't answer the question but making this a competition has no point

based

extreme low iq post

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The thing with classically trined musicians is that most of them follow a set of rules that is hard to break entirely. Ask any classically trained musician rookie what his favorite music is and he'll say something really stupid

favorite non-classical/non-contemporary music is

THIS

Based Scriabros. I fucking love this guy; once you take the divinepill, there's no way back.
youtube.com/watch?v=1CtmdgxtMHs

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cheesburger vs breath mints

Lmao Classical and it's not even close.
Composition is a million times more important improvisational ability. Jazz sucks and is so boring and repetitive compared to classical.

A 65 year old with severe alzheimer's

based

Laughing my ass off

based and ecstasypilled

kys fag

Yea Forums is

Fuck you and your Yea Forums. 4channel is king.

Soul is a European concept and word; Blacks culturally appropriating agian and again.

Your original post got removed because of racism.

Jazz is American melting pot music. It's at least 56%

classical musicians cant improvise whereas jazz musicians can.

classical music is for followers, jazz is for leaders.

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They hate him because he spoke the truth...

You have no pride in your race because there is nothing to be proud of. You are not welcome to claim our work.

Jazz sounds dated already, classical has been around for hundreds of years and still sounds fresh.

You can’t say your special word :^)

>niggers can't follow laws and rules
what a surprise

The Negroid isn't the real problem; the real problem is you, Jude.

Censorship empowers the word. Thank you for playing the game. You win nothing.

Based mods

...

My guess is half the posters here are sperging out defending an artform they don't even listen to. Pol tier bullshit muh race freaks ranting about 2 forms of art they don't partake in, hoping to appear cultured.

Firstly, what does OP mean by classical? Does romantic count too?
Anyway, western art music has tremendous overlap, especially in regards to musicians background, education and importantly harmonic concepts.
Jazz involves more improvisation than any other type of music and at a much greater depth. Creating chord progressions with appropriate voice leading on the fly (which is an absolute basic requirement for a polyphonic instrument in jazz) is very hard to compare with what a oboeist in an orchestra does.

What i am getting at is that there are very different general idioms involved, born of the influence of factors such as improv, how the music is notated, what roles you fill, and rhythm.

Personally i prefer jazz, but that's because it fits my interests better, but neither is better or superior. Only cretins think of music in those terms.

Mind you, jazz is undoubtedly more complex and interesting rhythmically .
I'll continue reading more dumbass posts now... this is a gold mine

I'm an electronic music evangelist, but please provide some serious boundries for electronic music to push that jazz or western art music cannot.
Fyi electronic music is harmonically centuries behind both classical and jazz.

Bud Powell : A Portrait of Thelonious

Very good pianist. Massively under appreciated

>I'll continue reading more dumbass posts now... this is a gold mine
If you continue to post, so will we... thanks for your addition.

BEETHOVEN WAS BLACK, GAY AND NONBINARY

Will that work?
Honestly I could talk about the merits of both kinds of music for hours.

t.

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ii-V-I ad nauseam
>this kills the jazz fags

classical obviously doesn't stand a chance, just look at the unique improvisation skills these players (with far more skills than any c*assical sheet reader i might add) has
youtu.be/krDxhnaKD7Q

>implying Beethoven wasn't mixed
lel

Classical does melody/harmony better while Jazz does rhythm

You have no idea of what you're saying. Penderecki played with Don Cherry, Stockhausen played several times with jazz musicians such as Michael Portal and Jean-François Jenny-Clark.

Beethoven was gay at least. He didnt get married.

holy shit this board is a waste of time

kys nigger

this is the best thread that i've seen for quite some time because of the comedy quality

>>implying Beethoven wasn't mixed
It is interesting to note that those pushing this conspiracy theory are not White; they are Jewish.

OP found the ultimate bait

For me, it's the McChicken. The best fast food sandwich. I even ask for extra McChicken sauce packets and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

One time I asked for McChicken sauce packets and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly McDonald's worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!".

Now the staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three packets. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local McDonald's restaurant, I go there at least 3 times a week for lunch and a large iced coffee with milk instead of cream, 1-2 times for breakfast on the weekend, and maybe once for dinner when I'm in a rush but want a great meal that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily nutritional needs.

I even dip my fries in McChicken sauce, it's delicious! What a great restaurant.
>this kills the electrical audio fag

self loathing

la la post 200 jazz is poo poo pee

classical sucks

projecting

wrong wrong objectively wrong

>projecting projection

stay mad

It only killed your credibility

THIS

yeah sure thing buddy

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Sup music school fags. Heard you guys got chops ;)

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I'm fascinated, where that motif come from? Any clues?

Sup literal who that makes music for gradeschoolers and manchildren. Learn any "new" blues licks recently?

Sounds like Haydn and Mozart are too deep for you.

In a way, that's the classical style's liability - it aims to not offend average listeners while engaging in arguably the most complex play on musical expectations (as in: expectations created by the piece, as opposed to jarring contrasts) in history. Unless you have a sense of where a phrase or harmony *should* go while listening, the charm of subversion and surprise is lost.

I guess I started with the Romantics and worked my way back. I guess the Classicists' harmonic surprises seemed pretty tame to me in comparison to, say, Beethovens' subversions. That's totally on me then.

No, you don't understand. It's not a matter of intensity, but rather a matter of understanding the music's grammar. Something like the "terror fanfare", the combination of a diminished seventh chord and its resolution, will sound jarring regardless of context. In terms of phrase structure, which is arguably the most important tool you have for creating specific expectations at specific points in the projected future, Beethoven tends to be a lot more regular than Haydn and Mozart. Hypermetric complexity and irregularity decrease significantly during the 19th century.

John Coltrane was 5'7

>x vs. y
>ah yes, Yea Forums

Im gona miss this thread :(

I feel like we've gotten to know each other very well over these last couple days

its only been one day

AND 12 hours which im going to round up to not look like a dumbass

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Things for you to consider:

>jazz is an oral tradition.
>The essence of jazz is ephemeral.
>In classical music, the musician's mission is to convey the composer's message as correctly as possible.
>Jazz was a genere created by musicians that wanted to have fun by jamming and fiddling with the tunes they had to play on their "day jobs".
>All of jazz compositional virtues happen in real time.
>Jazz musicians have inspired classical composers and vice versa.
>Just as you can "tell" between composers, any proper jazz listener can "tell" between McCoy Tyner's and Wynton Kelly's version of "Misty"
>Each of the former musicians has a very distinct approach to improvisation and both styles have been analyzed and rationalised by academia.

In conclusion, this whole comparison is essentially stupid, but objectively, the only thing that jazz lacked -until recently- in comparison to classical is a centennial academic body dedicated to preserve and study the musical affairs.

But jazz doesn't need it, because of my second point.

Jazz amounts to little more than an orgiastic celebration of nihilist consumerism and hypersexualization of all social life. It's terrible stuff.

It would be embarrassing because jazz typically requires a much higher skill and technicality level honestly. It's like moving onto a higher and more culturally advanced form of music.

>orgiastic celebration of nihilist consumerism and hypersexualization of all social life
i can't tell if it's Adorno or Steppenwolf you have been reading

You're mom is an oral tradition haha

Classical is pure technique. On the other hand Jazz is pure creativity.

>Jazz is pure creativity

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>higher and more culturally advanced
>Black folks

Ok fag. Call me when your improvs are decent enough, classicuck. Don't get too confused.

Records are arguably a text, jazz is not entirely oral in that sense. Classical sheet music grew very prescriptive by the 20th century, but the farther back you go, the more is left to the performers.

I agree with improvisation being on-the-spot composition: Which also makes it more dependent on rote memorization, called upon quickly and combined based on context, which also plays a major role not just in classical improvisation (which still exists, many organists and hip clavier performers are expert improvisers).

People tend to have an idealized, "inspirational" idea of both improvisation and composition. Ironically, that leads them to posit them as absolute opposites, rather than points on a continuum based on specific constraints. And the constraints are not just having time to deliberate and write things down. Coordinating harmony and polyphony within an ensemble is a constraint. That's why you agree on a vamp, or on a lead sheet, why solos are traded and not everything is equal polyphony.

this

>i can't tell if it's Adorno or Steppenwolf you have been reading
Someone who read Steppenwolf as a teenager and has since become far too cynical to agree with it's life-affirming attitudes.

Not just in classical improvisation, but also in composition. From thorough bass manuals, partimento exercises to solfege treatises: They all teach you stock voice-leadings and harmonizations to be recombined and adapted on the fly.

>Classical vs Jazz
Classical is somehow more alive than Jazz.
Holy hell was the end of the roaring 20s a cultural disaster.

>Records are arguably a text
Agreed, there are many stages in the evolution of jazz and there's definitely "before and after" the recording process was discovered. Recording began in the early 50s, but what you hear are just jam sessions. Before that, musicians had been jamming in a proper jazz forms for about 40 years. After recording, the jam session remained to be the most suitable place for learning jazz for about 30 years until jazz was academized by Berkeley et. al. Yet, jamming is still arguably the only form of properly learning the code.

>improvisation being on-the-spot composition
And the line between both gets thinner as we speak...

>People tend to have an idealized, "inspirational" idea of both improvisation and composition.
Completely agree and it's a pain.

>Constraints are not just having time to deliberate and write things down.
I like the analogy that classical music is like written literature and jazz is like storytelling. Everybody knows the tale of the red Riding Hood, but an amazing storyteller makes you want to hear it again and again, and even though it's the same exact plot, each time they tell it's different.
On the other hand you can equally sit and enjoy reading classic novel -say, Steppenwolf- and you certainly wouldn't like to have a story teller reciting it to you. And definitely not a single story teller would like to do that either.