/music/ general

tourist albums are by definition anti-essential. its the stuff that doesn't get at the core of the genre, but appeals to those unfamiliar with it. some tourist albums (like midtown 120 blues) are pretty faithful to their genres, so stuff like that can stay

>Joy Division is not an essential post-punk band
>but The Birthday Party, which isn't even noise rock, is essential noise rock

>Pere Ubu as the only example of post-punk
There are around 30 post-punk albums though.

>Metal Machine Music
It was one of the first noise albums and helped popularize the genre.
>The Sound of Porridge Bubbling
What's wrong about it?
>In The Flat Field
What's wrong about it?
>Pere Ubu as the only example of post-punk
Adding another example of post-punk would mean removing another genre from the post-punk section of the chart. Having only one "pure" post-punk album is the lesser evil (there are still a lot of post-punk albums, like Birth Party)
>implying Birthday Party is noise rock
I think Sonic Youth could be a better alternative, or Half Japanese, but I didn't want to include a three disc album for noise rock, and Sonic Youth was a bit late.
>random electro album under future pop released before futurepop even existed as a term
That album is unanimously considered to be future pop and is from a few years after future pop started to emerge.
>postindustrial used as a vague term for god knows what
Yes, I plan on removing that entry eventually.
>not actually using any of the popular albums that popularized a genre because that's apparently not essential
Wrong. See: Metal Machine Music (among many others).

The rock section sucks

What's wrong with it? I think it's pretty nice.

Roll

>It was one of the first noise albums and helped popularize the genre.
It was noise in name only. As a genre, noise didn't exist for years after it came out. It has also very little common with noise records, and no portion of it went to form the basis of the genre itself, unless you count "distortion pedals lol".

>What's wrong about it?
Awful representation of industrial almost a decade before industrial actually existed, very little in common with industrial, also more of a beat-type sound experiment rather than actual music album

>In The Flat Field
Not a great representative of the genre, there's very few goth bands that sound like Bauhaus.

>>Pere Ubu as the only example of post-punk
Its just not a good example. Again, how many bands sound like Pere Ubu vs Joy Division or even PiL? How can it be essential if it doesn't demonstrate the genre clearly?

>there are still a lot of post-punk albums, like Birth Party
Well which is it then

>I think Sonic Youth could be a better alternative, or Half Japanese, but I didn't want to include a three disc album for noise rock, and Sonic Youth was a bit late.
TBP have nothing to do with noise rock, though. Thats like saying GG Allin is noise rock. Just stick something else there like Big Black, Harry Pussy, The Jesus Lizard, whatever. There's a ton of it.

>That album is unanimously considered to be future pop and is from a few years after future pop started to emerge.
VNV Nation debuted in 1995, and I'm not even sure if they came up with the term future pop straight away, I believe not.

>Yes, I plan on removing that entry eventually.
Switch it up with electro-industrial, or use both and list something like Feindflug under electro industrial and Skinny Puppy under post, its what they tried to push as their genre name anyway.

>Wrong. See: Metal Machine Music (among many others).
Noise was popularized by TG, SPK, and maybe a couple of others.

why roll when u can just use random.org

I think the chart is a really good idea, but there should have been more community sourcing for some of the stuff. I think the most glaring issue is having Nmesh's tribute album as the only example of pure VGM there. I think that's dumb when DKC and FFVII soundtracks are regularly brought up as great video game soundtracks and capture wide ranges of the musical styles available to VGM. They also happen to be actual video game soundtracks instead of a weird homage. Hell, it would have been better to just put the actual Sonic 2 soundtrack down over that one.

I really admire the effort and attention put into the regional music sections, though I do question Sam Moore's inclusion as the representative of Hawaiian music, given that it seems that wester pop crossover is avoided at great lengths among the African examples (in short, no Fela, which I applaud since he's much more syncretic with jazz than an indigenous African musician) but Sam Moore is included instead of some indigenous Hawaiian music. This criticism, I admit, is a bit weak given that my exposure to indigenous Hawaiian music has come from sound clips in ethnomusicology classes, and I don't think I could identify a solid V/A compilation for the maker of the chart. Just a thought I wanted to express.

Chelsea Girl is a pretty poor representative of chamber folk, made doubly so by its production history as a movie tie-in and its creator's disavowal. Nico was much less involved in the folk scene than in the NY experimental pop scene, which should be obvious. Give it to like Vashti Bunyan or something.

(cont.)

You're also missing several genres:
Harsh EBM/Aggrotech
Deathrock
Rockabilly (modern)
Psychobilly
Minimal Wave
Witch House (if you count shit like post-nightcore...)
Lowercase

Provably more that I'm blanking out on

Oh yeah, gorenoise too

hey i'm not actually stay i had made my name that to troll him in another thread lol anyway continuing...

A Love Supreme should be here, but as an avant-garde jazz record is a stretch. I don't care what RYM has to say. Ascension should take that spot, and ALS should represent modal jazz (there should maybe be a full modal jazz section or a modal + spiritual section or something).

Modern classical needs to be expanded some. Feels like a bit of a crime not to have Scelsi or Haas represented somewhere. But this might just be my taste. It's an impressively concise and expansive list, and I applaud the creator especially on this section. There's just too much missing, especially when jazz gets like five albums per three-year era later. Minor nitpick, but there should be more work done to tie tape music and electroacoustic and reductionism into the classical section. These composers are extensions of the western classical tradition and don't really belong alongside Arashi-bu and fucking Eccojams lol

If the point of the chart is to buck consensus on Yea Forums and go for the actual most influential albums in certain genres, the Avalanches absolutely need to be removed and replaced with something by Madlib. No one takes that shit seriously outside of online music nerds who don't understand IHH or plunderphonics very well and are amazed by muh samples.

Power electronics does not begin and end with Whitehouse. This should be amended by replacing one of the Whitehouse albums with a compilation from a band the creator deems "relevant" enough (as a genre almost built on obscurity and word-of-mouth networks, some flexibility is going to be required in this definition, and I don't quite get the maker's criteria; happy to recommend some stuff tho if you're itt).

The non-music section also seems to have almost entirely arbitrary selections. I think the chosen genres are fine, but the selections within them don't seem particularly notable.

What were the earliest noise recordings in your opinion then?

>Awful representation of industrial almost a decade before industrial actually existed
Yeah, that release is meant to show the origins of industrial. I didn't want to write proto-industrial for it though. Odds are it will get removed eventually anyways.

>Not a great representative of the genre
What would you suggest then? The other options were The Cure and Siouxsie, but Bauhaus seemed the better alternative to me.

>Again, how many bands sound like Pere Ubu vs Joy Division or even PiL?
I do actually believe Pere Ubu sound like post-punk, especially the later tracks from the compilation on the chart. PIL was an alternative, but there were already a lot of post-punk bands at that point, so I felt the need to pick something earlier.

>Just stick something else there like Big Black, Harry Pussy, The Jesus Lizard, whatever.
Those are pretty late examples of the genre though.

>VNV Nation debuted in 1995
They debuted in 1990, and the album on the chart is from 1996 anyways.

>Switch it up
The idea would be reducing the number of industrial to ten recordings actually.

>Noise was popularized by TG, SPK, and maybe a couple of others.
I really wouldn't call TG noise. No idea about SPK, but that seems to be industrial instead of noise.

Anyways, I appreciate your comments a lot.

Yea Forums culture. Also free bumps.

look at the actual genre names alongside the album covers. several of those genres are in fact included

>Skinny Puppy for postindustrial
what the fuck are you on?

i agree that TG or SPK should go in for early noise, though. it really should be where pure noise is TG or SPK instead of Lou Reed and Incapacitants or Hijokaidan instead of Kevin Drumm. then you get the line out of industrial represented by the former and Japanoise (dumb term, sorry) originators get recognized

>there should have been more community sourcing for some of the stuff
There has been a lot, actually. I have been asking all around the internet for suggestions and I have already replaced more than fifty recordings since the first version of the chart thanks to community suggestions.

>I think the most glaring issue is having Nmesh's tribute album as the only example of pure VGM there.
It's pretty odd that you mention this, because that mix is a collage of all kinds of VGM soundtracks, so it manages to encapsulate a pretty broad scope from the genre.

>I do question Sam Moore's inclusion as the representative of Hawaiian music, given that it seems that wester pop crossover is avoided at great lengths among the African examples (in short, no Fela, which I applaud since he's much more syncretic with jazz than an indigenous African musician) but Sam Moore is included instead of some indigenous Hawaiian music.
You are absolutely right here (and correctly deduced why Fela isn't there). I should replace him. Keep in mind not choices I made are perfect, and in some cases I just had to settle for what at first glance seemed best. Do you have any suggestions?

>I don't think I could identify a solid V/A compilation for the maker of the chart.
That's perfectly fine. At least I know there is something I have to replace now.

>Chelsea Girl is a pretty poor representative of chamber folk
Yeah, you are probably right.

>Give it to like Vashti Bunyan or something.
Well, other alternatives are Astral Weeks by Van Morrison, Five Leaves Left by Nick Drake, and some other recordings from the 60s.

Some (most?) of those are already included, but keep in mind there are around 1500 genres at RYM, and this chart is just restricted to 1111 recordings, so that means there are more than four hundred genres that simply couldn't get added.
Now combine this with the fact that some people want to include more than one recording for some genres and the situation gets even worse.

>there has been a lot actually
ah, sorry to have doubted you on that. my bad.

>Nmesh
still doesn't sit right with me. i feel like there's lots of DJ mixes that you could use to demonstrate the breadth of certain genres with that logic. i won't fight super hard on this, but i think Nobuo Uematsu or David Wise deserves some recognition. Hell, go full basic and put Koji Kondo on over a DJ known for vaporwave tapes. and i say that as someone who kinda likes that mix.

>Hawaiian music stuff
yeah, wish i could help you there, but thanks for taking the criticism gracefully.

>chamber folk
Van Morrison or Nick Drake would be a great addition, but I do think Vashti Bunyan was a bit more "on the ground" in the way Bob Dylan was and you still have a representative of the major influence women had on chamber folk going forward. do what you will, though. they're both reasonable inclusions.

>A Love Supreme should be here, but as an avant-garde jazz record is a stretch.
What genre is it then?

>Ascension should take that spot
It used to be on the chart before, but took him out because there was already too much Coltrane, and the spots for free jazz were already covered well with other recordings.

I decided against modal jazz (maybe controversially so), because modal jazz is almost always another genre (post-bop, cool jazz, third stream, etc), so it was kind of redundant to have modal jazz, especially as a category. It didn't feel like it added much, if you ask me.

>Modern classical needs to be expanded some.
That's a though one. I did what I could, but expanding modern meant reducing others, and those situations felt way worse to me.

>Feels like a bit of a crime not to have Scelsi or Haas represented somewhere.
I understand, but it's the best I could do. Modern classical choices can still get replaced though.

>especially when jazz gets like five albums per three-year era later
Well, the distribution of albums was of a hundred for each "big genre", so that's why it is like this.

>there should be more work done to tie tape music and electroacoustic and reductionism into the classical section. These composers are extensions of the western classical tradition and don't really belong alongside Arashi-bu and fucking Eccojams lol
I actually don't feel those composers follow the lineage of western classical music, which is why they aren't there. They started more as conceptual music rather than from any specific western classical style.

>Avalanches absolutely need to be removed and replaced with something by Madlib
In the rare case where two recordings from the same genre were admitted (mostly due to luck), I decided that the second album should be the most "different" from the genre, and Avalanches seemed perfect for this. It's instrumental hip hop with samples turned up to the max.

>What were the earliest noise recordings in your opinion then?
Outside of individual tracks, probably some of the SPK albums. MMM might have maybe give someone an idea, and its "noise" in the sense that its a ton of sound ran thru distortions, but you'd be hard pressed to find something that actually takes it as an influence in what we consider the noise scene now.

>Yeah, that release is meant to show the origins of industrial.
Still seems weird for me. I guess it could work, but musically the origins were pretty much just TG doing random shit and seeing what sticks...

>What would you suggest then?
Both would be better picks. I like Bauhaus and all, but other than few songs, they didn't really have lasting influence on the genre - I don't know how to say it, but, 99% of goth rock bands emulated those two way more in both sound and fashion.

>I felt the need to pick something earlier.
Eh, I don't know. I would just go with JD, because you can't get any more essential than that. Sure everyone knows the album, but it's the album everyone still copies to this day.

>Those are pretty late examples of the genre though.
Better have something late than completely incorrect, though. TBP just have no noise rock elements to them. Yeah they played loud and pissed people off, but thats about it.

>They debuted in 1990, and the album on the chart is from 1996 anyways.
They had two pretty meh EBM singles in 1990, didn't have an album until 95. And I do believe that the term was not used for their first album.

I don't think reducing the number of industrial examples is a good idea, because its a huge umbrella term sprawling a ton of sounds and genres.

TG aren't strictly noise, but had a couple of noise tracks they would play live to piss people off, and that's pretty much where the modern noise genre began. You can hear them in a lot of their live recordings. SPK were industrial, but very noisy, and planted a lot of seeds for what would be later used by noise

Post-industrial means nothing anyway and its origins are pretty much tied with Skinny Puppy pushing to call themselves that

>Power electronics does not begin and end with Whitehouse. This should be amended by replacing one of the Whitehouse albums with a compilation from a band the creator deems "relevant" enough
Yeah, it wasn't necessary to have two Whitehouse albums, but I didn't know better about the genre, so that's why those got added. Odds are I will reduce it to just one PE recording though, but if you have a suggestion to replace Birdseed then just tell me and I will add it while the two recordings stay.

>The non-music section also seems to have almost entirely arbitrary selections. I think the chosen genres are fine, but the selections within them don't seem particularly notable.
I went for something more "unusual" with those genres. Buyer's Market isn't your average interviews recording, and neither is Speech After the Removal of the Larynx. It's more as a way to prove how much more those genres can be. But if you have any suggestions about it, feel free to tell me.

>this chart is just restricted to 1111 recordings
Why, though? Why not make it as comprehensive as poasible?

I think keeping Birdseed is a good idea, its primarily electronics based instead of analog, and it gives it a very unique sound. You could add something like The Grey Wolves, Genocide Organ, Government Alpha or something like that. There was a ton of V/As from the labels that carried them.

>still doesn't sit right with me
Don't worry, I understand.

The ideal would be to go with a VA compilation on the chronology of VGM soundtracks, as I don't feel I can choose any specific soundtrack for that position, which is why the mix fits so well, imo.

>do what you will, though. they're both reasonable inclusions
Alright them. I will write those three recordings down and decide later.

Thanks for the feedback by the way.

I could have made something with 2500 recordings (and I wish I did, to a certain extent), or 5000, or 10'000, and so on, but I settled with 1111 because of the catchy number, and being just the right size that it would fit all inside one image that can be posted on Yea Forums.

>what genre is ALS
i meant to say it's spiritual jazz and that modal jazz and spiritual jazz should be lumped. sorry for the typo. spiritual jazz could even be its own few album spot (put Karma on or move it into that; forget if you had it there). this would also make a lot of sense since a lot of the contemporary London scene is building on Spiritual Jazz directly in their avant-garde work.

>too much Coltrane
that's fair enough, but if there's an avant-Coltrane record, that's the one, imo

>expanding modern meant reducing others
fair enough, though i would politely retort that jazz is already way overpopulated and might be served by some cutting down. five albums from the late 60s and early 70s influencing a very particular academic niche (avant-garde jazz) shouldn't get the same amount of exposure as the entire last two thirds of the 20th century in the classical world, imo

>distribution = 100 of each "big genre"
fair enough; i might just argue that jazz (following herkyjerky on rym, and this is a niche opinion, so bear with me) is more like a syncretic original american classical tradition in the same way, say, German classical has always pulled on ancient music theory and married it with volk traditions. there might be justification for giving 25-50 of jazz's spots over to classical music and explaining the prevalence of western classical on the chart with the fact that it's the most well-documented multi-millennia musical tradition and also has the longest history of recording.

(cont.)

Well, genres like harsh EBM, horror punk and deathrock are actually pretty big omissions. Witch House I could understand, it's kind of a meme, but these are pretty big and had more impact than a lot of the genres on the chart

(cont.)

>started as more conceptual music
right, but they built off of Christian Wolff, Morton Feldman, John Cage... many of those folks went to conservatory, and people like Stockhausen were in music departments. the idea that early electronic music was made by engineers or something is a misconception brought on by the fact that there were new sonic studies departments being funded by governments during the radio boom. but it was people with strong classical educations making all that stuff. read some brian olewnick or jon abbey interviews/posts on IHM. Reductionism especially literally is an extension of what you're calling modern classical. it's even put out on modern classical labels.

>Avalanches as most different
eh, i think their uniqueness is overplayed, and of all the genres on there to get two entries, i think instrumental hip hop is a stretch. if you're gonna argue lou reed is one of two noise musicians to count, you've gotta have madlib on this list.

>VGM
i accept your reasoning but would reply that a lot of your regional music genres are represented by single artists. VGM is much less important than entire regional folk traditions, imo, and is better represented by a single soundtrack. i'll brainstorm a bit on what a good compilation to include would be, though.

i'm headed to dinner at the moment, but i'll keep an eye on this thread. thanks for the hard work on the chart and for the thoroughness and graciousness of your replies.

huh, I skipped this post

>you'd be hard pressed to find something that actually takes it as an influence in what we consider the noise scene now
Yeah, I guess you are right.
The problem with SPK is that they appear to be industrial instead of noise, which is why I'm wary of adding them.

>Still seems weird for me.
Yeah, it's understandable. Odds are it will get removed once I reduce the industrial category to ten recordings.

>I don't know how to say it, but, 99% of goth rock bands emulated those two way more in both sound and fashion.
That's good enough for me. Would Seventeen Seconds by The Cure be a good choice?

>I would just go with JD, because you can't get any more essential than that.
I still don't like the idea because it's a bit of a later release. And Pere Ubu does predict their sound a bit as well.

>TBP just have no noise rock elements to them.
The second track from the album is noise rock. First one isn't. Don't recall much about the rest.
But yeah, I have to admit I'm not convinced about TPB under noise rock as well, but Half Japanese would be the second choice, but adding a three disc album is a bit ehh.

>I do believe that the term was not used for their first album.
I don't think when the term was coined matters. What matters is if the future pop album on there is future pop, and looking at RYM genre votes, there are like 30 votes in favor of it being future pop, and none against. That seems like a safe choice for future pop, if you ask me.

>I don't think reducing the number of industrial examples is a good idea, because its a huge umbrella term sprawling a ton of sounds and genres.
I guess. Keep in mind however that the EBM genres are under synthpop, as their origins are closer under there (Kraftwerk made the earliest EBM songs, apparently), so that makes more sense to see why I'm reducing the number of industrial recordings.

>TG aren't strictly noise, but had a couple of noise tracks they would play live to piss people off, and that's pretty much where the modern noise genre began. You can hear them in a lot of their live recordings. SPK were industrial, but very noisy, and planted a lot of seeds for what would be later used by noise
That sounds more convincing, but if anything that would mean they are "proto-noise", no?

I want to add that, while I'm not convinced about having JD on the chart, I'm not convinced about having Pere Ubu either. It should be some early post-punk, but that's the best example I can think of that could have influenced post-punk as a whole.

Rollllllll

Rate this Yea Forums
youtube.com/watch?v=lG1bZaEXO7I

>The problem with SPK is that they appear to be industrial instead of noise, which is why I'm wary of adding them.
They are mostly industrial. If you want pure noise, it would be best to leave it to the later years and go with any of the old Japanese artists like Merzbow or Hijokaidan, since you already have a pretty late record in The Rita.

>Would Seventeen Seconds by The Cure be a good choice?
Its not a bad choice, but I would be more partial to Siouxsie, especially Juju. Or Sisters of Mercy. But at that point you're mostly talking personal preferences. I feel like both Siouxsie and Sisters would be better mostly because they're more "stripped down" to the goth essential sound, while The Cure experimented around with their sounds.

>I still don't like the idea because it's a bit of a later release. And Pere Ubu does predict their sound a bit as well.
Eh, I dunno. I guess.

>The second track from the album is noise rock. First one isn't.
I think this is another instance of having the music over the dates, because the genre didn't really firmly set itself until like the mid 80s.

>I don't think when the term was coined matters.
Eh, I'm not gonna die on Apop of all hills, but I would say it does matter. Like you wouldn't call Raw Power punk, of Unknown Pleasures goth rock, because neither of those existed, even though they share the sound.

>That sounds more convincing, but if anything that would mean they are "proto-noise", no?
Yeah, you have to pick if you want more accurate sound or earlier date. TG definitely aren't noise, but there could be a case made for SPK. I would just go with Merzbow or Hijokaidan.

Also Burroughs tape experiments could go under spoken word, I believe they're primarily spoken word - been years SK de I heard it tho.

I'm not convinced spiritual jazz is a real genre to be honest. I mean, it's the same case as with modal jazz, it's usually another genre (avant-garde, free jazz, etc).

>five albums from the late 60s and early 70s influencing a very particular academic niche (avant-garde jazz) shouldn't get the same amount of exposure as the entire last two thirds of the 20th century in the classical world, imo
Well, I think you are underestimating the scope of avant-garde jazz here (The Necks are nothing like John Zorn who is nothing like Love Supreme), but yeah, I can agree to a certain extent here. But reducing jazz by 20 to add 20 to western classical is a bit odd, and people could argue the same for rock, and so on, and its a mess. I just think giving the same space for all the big genres is the best way to go.

>original american classical tradition
When herkyjerky says this he means that jazz is a completely separate tradition from european classical though. I mean, he calls American non-jazz composers as european classical.

>the most well-documented multi-millennia musical tradition and also has the longest history of recording
It's important to keep in mind that the evolution of classical music has been slower compared to popular genres because of the lack of the printing press during its first half of existence and the lack of audio recordings for most of its existence (which has allowed popular music to evolve at a faster rate).

Well, there is already EBM. Harsh EBM is not a genre at RYM, which is why it's not there (there were very few exceptions of genres added to the chart not on RYM, most are just renames as well).
Horror Punk and Deathrock simply had no space, unless you want to argue they should replace another genre already on the chart.

roll

I don't go to RYM, so I have no idea what they list it as. Harsh EBM, Aggrotech, Hellektro, it's all the same genre. All three should definitely be included, as well as Psychobilly, because they're all pretty important and some even had mainstream popularity. There's no need for 6+ albums from the same classical era, cut an album here and there, you can also cut one or two jazz albums and the chart will be much more complete.

To clarify, by "all three" I meant harsh EBM, deathrock and horror punk

By the way, Czech and Moravian folk are the same - Morava is just a county in Czech Republic, and "Moravian folk" is played everywhere in the country, and may not even originated in Morava.

roll

>the idea that early electronic music was made by engineers or something
Yeah, I get that. I'm well aware that early tape/electronic/etc composers were educated in western musical theory and so on, but the music they made is not a derivative of the styles of western classical music like romanticism, impressionism, expressionism, and so on.

>Reductionism especially literally is an extension of what you're calling modern classical. it's even put out on modern classical labels.
An extension of the stuff like Feldman, for example?

>of all the genres on there to get two entries, i think instrumental hip hop is a stretch
Who gets two entries is mostly based on luck, really.

>if you're gonna argue lou reed is one of two noise musicians to count
He has the first place, actually. Kevin Drum is more replaceable.

>a lot of your regional music genres are represented by single artists
That makes sense in some cases, and in others its simply because that's the best I found. It also depends on whether or not the genre is a folk tradition (stored in the collective consciousness of the people's) or a more popular tradition (stored in recordings). In some popular traditions its possible to apply the logic of the right side recordings and go with an early representative instead.

>is better represented by a single soundtrack
But I don't think any specific soundtrack could cover as much ground as that mix does. The mix is one of the best summaries of VGM there are and possibly can be.

>i'll brainstorm a bit on what a good compilation to include would be, though.
That would be nice. I did try finding some before, but wasn't very satisfied with them. Maybe you will have better luck.

here, I'm going to sleep, but you should really look at pic related and the classical section and find a few album you can cut there. It would be much nicer to have wider selection of genres than 5-8 albums of one genre. You can also cut Get in the van since it's just an audio book, and Sound of Porridge Bubbling.
You should definitely add:

Horror punk - Misfits - Walk Among Us
Deathrock - Christian Death - Only Theater of Pain
Psychobilly - Reverend Horton Heat - Smoke em if you got em
Aggrotech - probably a Hocico, Suicide Commando or Combichrist.

Roll

>If you want pure noise, it would be best to leave it to the later years and go with any of the old Japanese artists like Merzbow or Hijokaidan
But those are already harsh noise, so I'm skipping the entirety of "pure noise" if I go with those first.

>while The Cure experimented around with their sounds
In that one specific album? Or their career as a whole? I mean, I know the answer to the second, but I mention it because it only matters which one recording we include, so what would be the objections to Seventeen Seconds? I would say that one takes precedence over Juju because it was released one year earlier.

>because the genre didn't really firmly set itself until like the mid 80s
Yeah, I guess. I have actually been trying to find a good candidate for noise rock for a few days already, but can't find anything I feel satisfied with.

>Like you wouldn't call Raw Power punk, of Unknown Pleasures goth rock, because neither of those existed, even though they share the sound.
I still haven't listened to Raw Power, but I wouldn't oppose to it being punk rock so far, since punk rock was already a thing back then. Even the Ramones were playing punk rock as early as 1974.
Regarding UP, I think a lot of people don't think they are gothic rock, but were close to, regardless of when the term was coined.

Noise and harsh noise are very tightly entwined, and you probably won't get any "pure noise" album from the 80s, because the distinction wasn't clearly made yet. So going with any of the first wave japanoise artist would be your best bet. Iirc, even Reed himself considers MMM a rock album.

>I would say that one takes precedence over Juju because it was released one year earlier.
Juju has a sound that is closer to your typical generic goth rock band. I don't think it massively matters, though.

>Regarding UP, I think a lot of people don't think they are gothic rock, but were close to, regardless of when the term was coined.
Thats because goth rock came from the post-punk scene, pretty much by accident, and snowballed from there. Basically Bauhaus wanted to copy post-punk sound but ended up experimenting a bit and being able to market it after that one live review. That's Linda my point, that its not really a great way to label music retroactively, cause you can make a lot of arguments like that.

>Harsh EBM, Aggrotech, Hellektro, it's all the same genre.
Oh, I see. I had Aggrotech as a candidate, but had to discard it because there was space for only 5 EBM-related recordings. Out of EBM, Electro-Industrial. Dark Electro, Aggrotech, New Beat, and Futurepop I chose to discard Aggrotech.

>as well as Psychobilly
But there is nowhere to add it, and in general decided against it because it's kind of a fusion genre. I mean, what would you remove to add it?

>There's no need for 6+ albums from the same classical era, cut an album here and there, you can also cut one or two jazz albums and the chart will be much more complete.
Jazz and Classical both have a hundred recordings each. Also, funny that you tell me I should cut down classical when another user tells me I should expand it. That's why each "big genre" is restricted to a hundred recordings each, to make it fair and representative.

In that case what do you remove to add those?

RYM says the Czech and the Moravian folk traditions are different.

>It would be much nicer to have wider selection of genres than 5-8 albums of one genre.
You have to keep in mind that the classical genres are not as specific as they should. I didn't specify if something was Roman or Venetian school, or if it was Symphony, Concerto, Mass, Madrigal, and so on. If I did all of this you would see a more varied selection of genres under classical, but I just chose not to for simplicity's sake while making the chart (meaning I will edit that eventually to make it more specific). Similar case with Romanticism, for example, that some people group as early and late romanticism as pretty differente genres, also nationalism romanticism, neo-romanticism, and so on.

>You can also cut Get in the van since it's just an audio book, and Sound of Porridge Bubbling.
I can't really cut those to add to the genres you are talking about. The chart is structured a certain way that won't allow you to make divisions smaller than in groups of five from the same category.
Also, to be fair, if the rock section were to be expanded, it would probably get expanded in the early rock category first. The punk category even used to have ten recordings instead of 20 in the early version of the chart (but with some missing genres at the time, which explains some things).

Hijokaidan’s early work is not harsh noise. It’s all made on analog instruments same as SPK.

If Lou reed is counting as real noise, SPK counts ten million more times

>you probably won't get any "pure noise" album from the 80s
There actually are though. The early japanoise recordings were just regular noise, for example, but I don't think its fair to include those under noise when the genre probably came from somewhere else (Reed? Probably not, but that was my best guess at the time).

>even Reed himself considers MMM a rock album
Yeah, but not in the way we talk about rock lol

>Juju has a sound that is closer to your typical generic goth rock band. I don't think it massively matters, though.
Hmm, I see. I will check both them out I guess.

>its not really a great way to label music retroactively, cause you can make a lot of arguments like that
But that's exactly how it works, no? Bauhaus started as post-punk and differentiated themselves enough to be called another genre, while JD were still closer to the original sound of post-punk.

Yeah, I addressed this at the top of this post.
Now, what were Hijokaidan's, Merzbow's, Incapacitant's, and Hanatarashi's influences?

Probably. Like I said, Reed was a best guess at the time, not a definitive one.

Aggrotech is by far the most popular out of these, though. Combichrist for example are pretty popular even outside the EBM community. You dont need to have exactly 100 jazz albums man, it's a lot of stuff. Cut one big band record, one dixieland record, whatever. It will make the chart much more informative to have more genres instead of OCD level of ordering...

Merzbow is a later wave but the others mainly took influence from hardcore punk, heavy metal, and Jimi Hendrix and just really took to the distortion. Think MBV’s influences mainly being like the Ronettes

By the way, before I go to sleep, deathrock is as important to the goth subculture as goth rock. Most of the culture, ideas and very big chunk of the fashion came from deathrock, specifically Specimen and other Batcave artists. They were the ones to popularize the fishnets, teased up mohawks, ripped shirts, elements of slight fetish fashion, black as a primary color, etc.

>Cut one big band record, one dixieland record, whatever.
I can't do that because of how the chart is structured. See >Aggrotech is by far the most popular out of these, though.
I see. In that case I should remove either New Beat or Future Pop to add it then. I don't want to do away with New Beat, since it was important to the development of trance, so I guess I should do away with future pop?

>It will make the chart much more informative to have more genres instead of OCD level of ordering...
It's for the best, really.

Islamic music is an oxymoron

roll ,

Wrong.
>Some Muslims believe that only vocal music is permissible (halal) and that instruments are forbidden (haram). Hence there is a strong tradition of a cappella devotional singing.
>Some Muslims believe that any instrument is lawful as long as it is used for the permissible kinds of music. Hence there is a long tradition of instrumental accompaniment to devotional songs. A wide variety of instruments may be used, depending on local musical traditions.

Last thread I had rolled éthiopiques 10 - Tezeta :ethiopian blues and ballads. It was a different image but im just gonna leave the rev here:
Pretty nice compilation album that is I guess a classic of tzita music. The style is a mix of blues and ethiopian ethnic music. It reminded me a lot of the turkish blues scene. None of the songs stood out as bad by any means but the album kinda lacks coherency. 7/10, not the kind of thing I usually listen but I'd love to hear more like it.

Rolling for a new one, come on, something ambient

How possible was it that noise (as a genre) started from industrial, and that therefore the japanoise guys were directly influenced by industrial music?

That's good to know, but the issue is that I need to remove something to add deathrock.

roll

I made a cover in this thread on a balkanic virtuoso's song. It's only an attempt.

roll

/music/? more like /discussion/

Roll

Rollo

bump. I mean roll

r

hold my breath and roll.

ror

FICO score

I’ve explained why it’s shit, you’ve refused to change it

Roll

ROLL