American healthcare sucks

>American healthcare sucks
>European healthcare sucks
So how can we come up with the best system. What do you guys thinks?

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No healthcare. Just let everyone sleep it off.

How does European health care suck?

I had to wait 10-12 hours for a walk in emergency. Not bullshitting you either.

have you tried Tylenol?

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Kids don't know what we have to put up with because they've never had anything wrong with their health.

phone appointments are a thing. this isnt the ice age

What kind of emergency? Obviously it couldn't have been too pressing since you waited 10 hours for treatment and didn't die.


not to mention, if it was urgent they would be bumped up the waitlist, and waiitng for so long sounds like a staffing or facility problem more than a systemic issue

>hello yes, I would like to make an appointment for my cardiovascular issues....what do you mean I need to be there?

Why are eurofats so defensive when it comes to healthcare? reminds me of reddit

>reminds me of reddit
Fond memories I presume because you're from there?

I hear everyone rag on American healthcare but is there any county in the world that has their shit together with healthcare? I think the state of a countries healthcare should be a reliable measuring stick to demonstrate how much a country cares about its citizens. even if you are a hard working blue collar guy, eventually you will have a heath issue and need a spinal fusion, or something else because of occupational wear and tear. And it’s like once you have a serious health issue instead of there being a clear path to healing and getting back into the workforce, you’re expecting to just become poor and suffer.

The only problem with American healthcare is it costs a lot. But it's great precisely because it costs a lot

What are you talking about? if you need a bone set or something obvious sure. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a proper diagnosis on anything that isn’t immediately clear? It can take people close to a decade to find out what was causing them pain in their side/stomach or to find out they have a disease. Do you have any idea how much they charge people for tests that are just inconclusive? Many people spend years of their life trying to find a doctor that actually knows what the fuck they’re talking about.

Maybe healthcare sucks because all the scientists, doctors, pharmacists, lab techs and nurses are dangerously incompetent, not to mention what goes on administratively

Don't know what you're talking about. I've had the opposite experience. You live in Detroit or LA?

American healthcare is great? We pay double of what every other country does. My doctor tried to convince me I had cancer to sell me opioids he was getting kickbacks for. I spent three months unable to use my hand because of a tendon injury and three separate doctors said "eh there's nothing I can do". Bruh, one time I went to a doctor with a toe nail that was 80% off. She wouldn't come near me, and immediately prescribed me medicine that would have destroyed my liver at my age.

Tell me one fucking thing American healthcare does better. Because imo, this shit is rock bottom.

You’re out of touch.

america has the best healthcare on earth if you have a lot of money

Yeah too bad a “lot of money” means being better off than 70 or 80 percent of people in most cases. maybe that is just the “tax” to see doctors who actually know anything. like I said in another post often times you have to get referred back and forth to multiple doctors before one actually knows what they’re talking about.

>So how can we come up with the best system.
Ban insurance and bring back the lodge system.

Natural selection.


Not him but I have had instances where they wanted me to wait for hours, and it wasn’t until I couldn’t stand anymore and was about to pass out that they took my oxygen levels and rushed me into treatment. The retards at the front desk are just desk monkeys.

Yeah, you really are.

don't be gay

Yeah you are

Trepanning was p dope

Anyone who is actuarially at risk for preventable shit gets 3 years to fix themselves or is killed.

Maybe we should ban healthcare and let natural selection do its thing.

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European healthcare is awesome. The fuck are you smoking retard.

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>no taxes
>free market
>nap bitch
>fuck the government
>lots of guns
>freedom of speech

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The best healthcare on earth costs money. If you want generally passable healthcare, you can get it in the US even if you're a poor.

don't get sick lard ass

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Shouldn’t cost half of a house to get the best treatment no matter what. you can counter and say what about this or what
About that but even if someone has to have brain surgery it shouldn’t cost them half of a house. Especially when it’s not even their fault.

what the fuck is the point of working hard for your entire life, and saving your money up and being responsible… just to get financially wiped out because you got cancer or something? There’s no point to living at that point or contributing to a system that perpetuates that.

Houses today cost so much that at a point you are going to have to pick between having a home and having some operation after saving money up for years being the opposite of a welfare leech and having nothing to show for it. at that point you are just a hamster on a wheel

It’s too late for that.

>Shouldn’t cost half of a house to get the best treatment no matter what.
The best treatment no matter what? That's one hell of a statement. What id the best treatment no matter what consumes resources worth millions?

The healthcare being so fundamentally flawed here is the sole reason so many people change from republican to independent or to democrat. Your one alleged anecdotal story you have doesn’t change the fact that half the country has shot healthcare and even if you are in a rich state most cities in that state have shit doctors and providers. If America is the greatest country on earth there is no excuse for it. this isn’t America anymore it just is a bunch of corporations. the stars on the flag may as well represent McDonald’s and apple and shit.

>just to get financially wiped out because you got cancer or something
With health insurance, the worst and longest cancer runs will cost you at most $150k for world class treatment. Which is a lot, but is so.ething that half the country could survive financially.

Ok. Go vote Democrat, I'm sure that will make it all better

The best treatments shouldn’t cost as much as they do period. Have you ever tried asking what a operation or a service will cost you? Most doctors or specialists can’t tell you and get upset when you ask or irritated or confused. And part of that is it depends on your insurance and how much you make and if you are paying out of pocket or not. And that’s because they are trying to get as much as possible, everyone is trying to make as much as possible. So everyone is overcharging everyone at every level that they can. There was a guy on here a month ago who fixes and maintained. X-ray machine and he was explaining that the parts that go into the machine are thousands of dollars themselves when they cost nothing to make.

That's an invalid word for goods and services.

150 is half of a house in a cheap state. Many blue collar workers only make 40-50k working full time. if you can’t pay it some states will seize your assets. Even in an ideal situation where you have 150k in savings, what are you going to do now when something else happens to you or your wife medically? now you are fucked if anything happens. Or now your kids college fund is gone.

things are fucked up because of both parties. American culture is built on making maximum profit. The democrats at least gave people access to Obama care even if that in itself is shit tier in many ways. It’s at least something. what are you supposed to do if you are some young guy in college and you get hit by a car or something and you lose your day job because you can’t work? Do you just fucking die?

What point are you trying to make?

>Even in an ideal situation where you have 150k in savings, what are you going to do now when something else happens to you or your wife medically?
Yes, if you have multiple worst case incidents in a row, one or them is not going to be able to afford world class care and instead must settle for generally passable care.

Health care is subject to economics just like anything else. If you disagree, try compelling a doctor to treat you at a rate of your choosing.

if im designing a machine that would sell for a few hundred dollars, and then people operating it are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, then im going to sell it for thousands of dollars. expecting people to not act in their own interest is unreasonable and naive. forcing people not to create resentment and brain drain, that's not something you want in people making medical devices and people operating them. ill pay the bill for the doctor's visit, all together its the same as the double if not triple taxes id be paying in socialized healthcare.

That health care is a transaction subject to supply and demand, not some free unlimited benefit.

The system works. Europoors were laughing at America but then suddenly got on their knees to beg for covid vaccines that companies were pumping out because of the profit incentive, now corner is administering them.

Well american health care is great but it's costs a lot for a variety of reasons that nobody ever wants to talk about. Like for one health providers don't ever show their prices dso there is no compeition. So health providers charge people insane prcies bc why not? Got your bone fixed and only needed a xray? That will be 8000. If you simply forced providers to show their prices that alone would drop rpcies everywhere and the total cost of health services provided would drop.

Another problem is public insurance doesn't cover the services they use. So somebody else has to make up the difference. Another problem is Americans are really fat and so suffer from chronic co dition like diabetes and high blood pressure. Simply pay the health insurance or if you can't afford it bc you weigh 400 pounds or smoke 4 packs a day then pay out of pocket.

There are a lot of variables here the first is that a lot of peoples health problems take years to be found, usually after the damage has been done, because “passable” doctors are inept and can’t find anything until peoples lives are falling apart. “Passable” healthcare is what leads people to losing years of productivity in their lives )which some could argue has a net effect on the economy) while they wait to be bounced from doctor to doctor before anything is found. “Passable” treatment gets to surgeons who botch the operation and leave you with a new problem or don’t fix the issue you went there for. Look up spinal fusions which many older guys in blue collar jobs end up getting on their neck or back.

And you think government control can fix it?

>“passable” doctors are inept and can’t find anything until peoples lives are falling apart.
Citation needed, ideally as a per capita statistic

Sounds like you found yourself some retarded doctors

Those machines cost so much to buy that hospitals and insurance companies do everything they can do reject the doctors request to use them and delay your diagnosis by months or in some cases years. lots of things can only be discovered with unconventional or expensive mri scans. And that doesn’t even get to the point that there are lots of instances where the people reading the scans of X-rays mris or ct scans miss things. And then people have to get more scans done years later and pay even more. so again the passable heath are people get is garbage. paying for taxes for a heal the care that will always work makes more sense. There will come a point where most people are incapacitated and can’t work and it shouldn’t be left to luck that they will just have the savings when the time comes.

Yeah but governments cannot fix shit. They can provide law and order and regulate shit but they can't improve your material well being. Housing is super expensive bc of zoning laws and community your trying to build in will sue your ass over and over again to stop you building. Get rid of that shit but keep safety codes and the price will collapse and housing will become affordable. A 150,000 house will cost 150,000. Not 600,000 bc the market is fucked up. Ditto for gealth care. Get government out of health care. Let colleges admit more doctors and educate them and as long as try pass they become doctors. Let health providers compete on price and let them build more facilities without needing permission. Let drug manufacturers produce drugs and let there be independent 3rd party testers that certify that drugs do what they are suppossed to do. Governments never make things better or cheaper.

you come here and make up hyperbole that common knowledge and experience knows isnt true, but still try to come off as being genuine? people are not this naive

I thought like you when I was younger. You need to stop thinking of healthcare in a vacuum and see it for what it is, a variable and modifier that effects the other parts of a system.

there are people who work useful jobs that need to get done, who simply will never be able to save enough money up working those jobs (that society needs) to have the money set aside to pay for inflated healthcare costs when something happens. If you have a blue collar guy making 50k a year who is trying to buy a house, and provide for a kid, the second that he gets a long term injury of any sort, he is screwed. People like this don’t have thousands of dollars saved up. People don’t want to acknowledge that there is a percentage of the population who aren’t working who don’t contribute to society anymore, who stopped working because they had an injury of some sort, and couldn’t get treatment to improve or fix it, who now end up poor not out of laziness but because they can’t afford some surgery or to see whatever specialist after getting bounced between 20 doctors.

now those people are unemployed and you pay for their disability. And disability is an entire conversation in of itself because you can’t even obtain that until you run through all of your assets and savings to even qualify for it.

I thought like you when I was poorer. And then I realized that you will always have some stopping point in care provided below cost, that there will always be cost benefit tradeoff and triage with finite resources, and that healthcare is an example of a finite resource.

Yeah I know. Nobody knows the price of anything so people charge big numbers and hope enough money comes in to cover operating expenses and make money. Another problem is there are too many big hospitals that have everything and it becomes super complicated. It makes more sense to have more smaller clinics that focus on certain things. Like a imaging center that only does scanning. Then other clinic that only does easy stuff like stitches and provides prescriptions. Another clinic simply does surgery. Other clinics focus on cancer or broken bones. Or plastic surgery. Hospitals do to much and it becomes super inefficient.

Are you super young or something with no life experience? Or are you just a autistic pseudo intellectual? the vast majority of doctors have a niche intelligence which is test taking and memorization of facts. just talk to them. That relates in no way to investigative ability or abstract thinking. the type of thinking you need to apply the facts you memorized to real life applications and situations. you never knew someone who was great at trivia who was an absolute retard in every other area with no ability to think out of the box to solve a problem? That’s most doctors. That’s how they got through medical school. Look into it yourself.

That's what insurance is for. Big ticket expenses. My dad used to have a HSA account that paid for stitches or broken bones and paid 45 bucks for catastrophic I surface that only paid for stuff over 6500. They covered 100 percent anything after that 6500. So if my dad broke a leg he paid for it out of pocket. But got cancer and it cost 30,000 the insurance company paid it.