How do I get into jazz Yea Forums ?
I've listened to a bunch of popular records and I like it, but I just don't understand it. It's like the music plays with me having no idea what the fuck is truly going on. It sounds great, but I feel like I'm missing something.
Help me out
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learnjazzstandards.com
tones.wolfram.com
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Jazz is something where you just sit back and enjoy the sounds barreling towards you, that's it no need to understand it. All the improv is feel based and so should your listening, if you really want to understand it start with the heads, they're simple changes with nice simple melody to introduce all the chords. Then I would say to study different scales and modes if you want to understand why certain phrases were chosen in a solo.
By the way Thrust is a great album, one of my current favorites rn.
Thanks, I guess you're right, I shouldn't worry so much about getting it but sometimes it feels too much like I'm completely lost in the sound. I've tried studying the theory behind it but damn I just can't seem to hear it when I'm listening.
Also thanks for the recommendation, I love his Headhunters LP, I wish this is just as good
Jazz theory in a nutshell, create a shit ton of tension with 7ths 11ths 13ths, chromatic passing notes into a chord tone to resolve the phrase (this doesn't need to be done with every phrase, but it's good to resolve to a chord tone a lot to keep listeners engaged). Bam there's basic improv theory. If you truly want to dive into jazz in a musical sense I suggest playing along to some jazz records, nothing is better than playing with the best of the best and having them guide you. Check out Herbie Hancock Trio 1977 also, that has some really good stuff in there.
If your problem is you feel like you don't know what's going on, I might be able to help.
Essentially, the basic jazz form is head-solos-head. The head is basically the composed portion of a jazz song, where the recognizable melodies happen, where lyrics are sung if applicable, etc. After you play through the head, members solo over the chord changes (just another word for chord progression) while accompanied by some or all of the other players. Meaning they take improvised solos based on harmonic principles which say licks made up of notes this scale or these chord tones will sound good over the chords (same ones as in the head). Accompaniment (or comping) is usually the role of the rhythm instruments. They play the chords using creative voicings and rhythms and sometimes simple melodies or fills to complement the soloist. In the best jazz music, the connection between the soloists and the comping musicians is so strong that they will play off one another in a way that makes you question if it could truly be improvised. Solos are typically measured in length by the number of 'choruses' the soloist takes, a chorus being a single time through the chords of the head. Then, once everyone who is going to has soloed, usually the band will play the head one more time and end on a nice arpeggio or whatever.
This is very simplified obviously. It was never strictly applied, really, but definitely formed the bedrock structure of jazz through the bebop era. In the late 50s and early 60s, players like MIles and Trane (including in your pic related) started to stretch and eventually break that structure completely. You could probably say the first biggest breakthrough that subverted that structure was "modal jazz," which is sort of a non-genre descriptor because it doesn't really indicate a sound or style, but instead that the band is not soloing over the chord progressions played in the head, but instead over one or two of those chords, changing modes instead of chords to...
provide the harmonic movement. You don't really need to know what modes are to have a basic understanding, but there's tons and tons written on modal harmony that shouldn't be hard to find or THAT hard to understand. Kind of Blue was (to my knowledge) the first "modal" release by an S tier famous/respected jazz musician, which is part of why it enjoys the status it does to this day. Your pic related was also a major one, being sort of provocative by drawing people in with the promise of a cover of a very recognizable showtune only to be met with a 15 minute behemoth with solos that weren't even recognizable as being played over the chords to the song (because they weren't). As time went on, more styles like post-bop, free jazz, and fusion were created in the wake of the discarding of the traditional jazz structure but that's intermediate level stuff sorry bud!!!
This is more or less true. It can be hard to hear the theory if you don't have a really good ear because great musicians will use all kinds of different scales over different chords and changes to form ideas. This site seems kind of dumb but the list of important jazz scales is solid and accurate.
learnjazzstandards.com
woops i forgot the link to jazz scales
tones.wolfram.com
I would go to the charts on RYM. Then look at what you like the most then use those for futher suggestions.
rateyourmusic.com
Thank you both, this is eye (or ear, absolute and glorious KEK) opening. I had heard of modes, but they seem so hard to spot just by ears ... Crap I can't even recognize a key by ear so modes ? I guess it comes with practice haha
Thank you also for the links, will definitely check those out
I just realized that I've started listening seriously to jazz just like recommended doing, but all of these seem kind of advanced jazz standards that are maybe a little too complex to start with, do you have an album or an artist from the pre-letsfuckeverythingup era that I could listen to ?
They are the acclaimed albums, and tend to co inside with anything Yea Forums with suggest regardless of what they pretend to say. I would just get into it casually then go indepth, you have to kind of enjoy it before diving head first in you know. Why study EDM if you hate EDM, it's a waste of time. Just dive in and get your toes wet then go and read up on it and then your tastes will become more refined and you might appreciate albums you heard but didn't initially.
You're right, I might be rushing things too much. I enjoy it a lot thought, no doubt on that. Thanks again
I might be biased because I'm a jazz drummer, but I don't think that you need to know the theory to enjoy jazz. I do find theory super interesting, and it does help to appreciate the subtlety that make the "greats" great, but it's definitely not required for you to memorize modes in order to think "damn that sounds good."
I'll recommend an album that I myself love, Ahunk Ahunk is my favorite song but the whole thing jams: youtube.com
Shit if you enjoy it fucking rush right into it, you'll embody all that is bebop
Nah I'm not saying you need to know the theory, just putting in referemces if he's interested in it, jazz is best enjoyed without knowing theory. Or at least that's what Bill Evans believes
I think it's more authentic that way.
I can see that. It gets rid of the magic of it per se, it goes from "wow how is he playing those notes off the top of his head he sounds like he has this memorized" to "yea he has scales, modes, and phrases memorized on all 12 keys because he practiced 8 hrs a day for a year before being able to noodle in key."
dunno. it sounds mostly like cars in traffic honking and ducks quacking
The stuff I started with was Kind of Blue which is nice and easy. Bebop is more challenging, not that it’s better. Honestly sticking to the greats is nice for jazz. Personally, Thelonius Monk is my fav, but then again I’m a genre tourist.
You definitely don't need to know theory to get jazz, it helps to understand the structure and ideas of what they're doing, but you don't need to know what mode a player is in at a given time all. Luckily, impressive harmonic feats like switching modes at the right time for effect or whatever, also usually sound very cool. It just might make you feel less lost to have some idea of what might be happening when you hear the cool thing. It also helps to know what style you're listening to and what the basic ideas of it are, even if you can't identify every one in the music itself.
I'll drop a rec of my fav jazz album of 2018, Binker and Moses - Alive in the East? I don't really know what they're doing harmonically on it, but is really cool almost rock-y drums and dueling horns and a damn harp player playing the thing like its a rhythm guitar. its very cool.
I feel that drummers have to tackle it from a completely different angle. But theory is secondary - it's just giving you the tools to reproduce the sound in your head.
This reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately which comes from the idea that improvisers aren't making up licks on the spot, they're playing licks they've previously written or practiced or picked up from listening and practiced - essentially, even when you're soloing on an original, you're still making use of your repertoire. And I think repertoire in general is an underrated thing in music now. Not sure how much it applies to pop music, but especially for rock musicians, learning songs is so important. It'll make you not only better at playing in general (like chops) but better at writing and definitely better at improvising.
Oh, yeah, repertoire is a massive thing that is definitely underrated nowadays - the fact that there's not many bands doing covers but putting their own spin on it is a massive sign. You look back to The Beatles, their early repertoire is a lot of cover songs from anywhere - Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Tin Pan Alley. You look to classical composers and a major thing is score study, you look to jazz musicians and transcription is something that's huge. Learning your inspirations have done something is a huge part of getting good, and even those that you don't necessarily like.
based Herbie trips
I like to conceive Jazz as a great conversation among great musicians who are just gathered for the sake of free expression and aesthetics in music.
Despite of my opinion. I strongly recommend following this walk-through to start the pleasurable journey of discovering jazz.
>inb4 read the sticky
read the wiki of the artist you are going to listen then the wiki of the album
then finally read everything about the ii V i plus a few videos on the matter at youtube
expand your knowlegde of the chords they use as you listen more artists and their albums
Disclosure: I only have rudimentary knowledge on the subject.
Moreso than any genre, to appreciate Jazz, you must be familiar with the musicians. It's relatively uncommon for there to be "set" bands; almost every important jazz album is a collaboration of individual musicians working together to build a groove. For example, the Miles Davis Quintet had John Coltrane who went on to be bandleader of his own Quartet. After he died, his bandmates (most notably the piano player, McCoy Tyner) released their own records as bandleader. There are countless examples of this- of important players being bandleader for their own records, but then being a mere contributor on an other. What this implies is that, when picking a Jazz record, you should be mindful of what instrument you want to hear the most to decide on a band leader, then look at the band mates to see if they're good. An example of this is Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else. You might not know Adderley, but Miles' on it, so you know it's good. Jazz is a pretty incestuous genre, so if you like how someone's playing their instrument, look them up and you'll build up a fractal of goodness, leading you to more quality musicians.
Moreover, once you hear enough Jazz, you'll notice there's a formula, especially on earlier records. First, the melody is introduced (played by the bandleader), then each band member takes their solos, then the melody closes the song.
But if you just want to be able to appreciate Jazz in the first place, a bookstore owner once told me, "If you're lost, just focus on an instrument and follow it."
Hope this helped
I miss jtg
Don't over-think it bro. Just let those cool rhythms bring you to a higher place. The understanding will come with time.
>this is eye (or ear, absolute and glorious KEK)
nigga stop
The best part about jazz is that there's so fucking much music to discover, so many different subgenres and players to explore. Every time you think you've heard it all youll find something new and be blown away.
>"If you're lost, just focus on an instrument and follow it."
interesting advice. i found myself doing this during those blindfold tests we used to do
Did Art Blakey ever make anything bad? All of his stuff is enjoyable.
John Coltrane and Duke Ellington "In A Sentimental Mood" you just listen to the Duke and Coltrane. Miles Davis. Go on YouTube/Spotify and follow the rabbit hole. But just listen. Imagine the life being lived through the music.
>imagine something else
mine is fine enough