The final redpill is realizing this guy is literally a low functioning autístic talentless hack that is only relevant...

Funny you mention

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>phoneposter
>calling anyone else subhuman
LMAO

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Kanye, fuck off already. Everyone who still likes you is a tourist from r/the_donald

>twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1046452160307769346?s=20
nvm, he’s so retarded he left it up on his twitter. where is your yeezus now cuck
i do realize that, and that’s not at all what I'm doing or implying, and you know the reasons and context for my post very well. this bait is not even worth a proper reply. also this is an extremely pleb view that only a low IQ cuck would have unironically. fuck off
>muh phoneposting meme
whether i’m posting from a smartphone or tablet (the latter) doesn’t change how much of a subhuman cuck you are for unironically defending kanye west faggot

>if an artist is a talentless hack that didn’t even make the record that is attributed to them and you have a problem with this and include it in your criticism you are simply illiterate
these are the mongoloids i share this board with

The people you're arguing with would literally chose the artists they stan over their own families. It's hard to reason with people who are filled with propaganda and circular bullshit in place of actual understanding.

Amazing bait good sir

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i’m not baiting at all. read the rest of the thread and do your own research you lemming

>djbooth.net/features/2018-06-03-kanye-west-ghostcreators-james-fauntleroy
>boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2716190
who knows how reliable these other niggers are but there’s clearly a precedent

That says more about you than it does about them.

What does that even mean? Fucking retard. There's been plenty of evidence put forward in this thread that Kanye's a retarded thieving cuck, and that's the best you can do to refute that?
You industry people are fucking pathetic.

>you know the reasons and context for my post very well
yeah, anti-semitism and retarded inductive fallacies. Not a coherent point in sight, mostly because you're not smart enough to challenge the music objectively and instead make non-sequiturs about the process of production surrounding it.

Your reply was a total non-answer. You haven't given any reason as to why Kanye is more deserving of ridicule for using ghostwriters than any other artist that does (which is the majority of them). I'm not arguing that Kanye is "good", I'm saying you can't make an argument about the quality of the music by pointing out who did or didn't make it (which is exactly what you're trying to do, so stop squirming to say otherwise).

see the above post, its totally irrelevant whether or not I like kanye (I don't, fyi).

>whether or not I like kanye (I don't, fyi)
Nice heel turn. Dance more for me, monkey.
The ghostwriters is a point that needs to be spoken of because you'd think an artistic genius would come up with HIS OWN FUCKING MATERIAL.
>anti-semitism
Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night, you worthless con artist.

It's embarrassing that you think evidence is equal to interviews and some dude trying to defend his friend. I bet you didnt even bother reading the comments either since youre mentally deficient.

Decent characterization but not completely accurate. C-, see me after class

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That's a real fancy way of saying "you're stupid". It's all words and no content with this whole fabricated scene.
I'm of sound mental health by the way and for that reason I wouldn't subject myself to the retardation that is YouTube's comment section.

>Nice heel turn
a turn from what? if you look at my first post you'll see I never made any claims as to whether I like Kanye, because that was irrelevant to my point. I don't have to like him to justify the way commercial songwriting works because he's not the only one.

>you'd think an artistic genius would come up with HIS OWN FUCKING MATERIAL
Does a head chef cook everything himself, or does he distribute his responsibilities amongst those working beneath him? You might not approve and think it inauthentic, but it's simply how big commercial projects are produced. Not liking the music for how it sounds is one thing, but refusing to appreciate the music because it doesn't sit well with your principles is shamefully ignorant and superficial. You're so obsessed with the corruption of celebrity culture and inauthenticity that your ability to judge music has been severely impaired. If you didn't care so much maybe you'd be able to critique it better from a more neutral standpoint and have valid things to say about why Kanye's MUSIC sucks, and not why Kanye HIMSELF sucks. This is, after all, a music board, no?

i’m a helluva lot smarter than you, that’s for sure. your posts thus far couldn’t have made that any more obvious. you obviously don’t know what an inductive fallacy is, and you’re too retarded to understand ive yet to even “challenge the music objectively” because the music was never the focal point of my thread. i and pretty much any normalfags off the street is “smart enough” to “challenge” literal fucking pop music. you are the one too braindead to even have grade school tier reading comprehension or knowing the difference between it’s and its kek. can’t say it’s a typo when it’s been that consistent. and i remarked on lyric writing, not just production. fucking retard. and now you’re not even strawmanning, you’re just completely making shitty arguments up that I never even began to make. all artists, including your beloved Yeezus Christ, that claim to be artistic geniuses but aren’t at least for the last part responsible for the creation of their work are deserving of ridicule. they’re not making Louvre tier works here, the quality doesn’t exempt it, and even if it was nothing is exempt. he’d still be a talentless hack being propped up by the creative work of others. you’re so retarded and delusional you’re arguing with yourself. and you obviously would suck his cock if you got the chance, you worthless shill. not replying to you again
>anti semitism!!! egads!!!
go the FUCK BACK TOMWHERE YOU CAME FROM YOU MINDLESS SOULLESS JEWISH GOLEM
>accusing someone of being mentally deficient for not reading YOUTUBE COMMENTS
oh my god. this has to be bait. this board is fucking dead. you faggots deserve to be gassed

Big commercial projects that a fucking 16 year old can do in his first year on FL. The vocal tracking is shit. The drum mixing is shit. And the samples are shit I've heard on a million other tracks. There's my objective criticism. Learn to code, faggot.

shifting goalposts still. the music is fucking overrated niggerhop too. is that what you wanted to hear? the only redeemable aspects are the ones kanye objectively has least likely to do with, production. just fuck off your idol will be remembered as a talentless hack tha was credited for shit he was almost wholly not responsible for. plenty of what he does with help or not is blame and mediocre anyway. his clothing line being a perfect example

>have jesus walks on your demo
>get laughed at for months and flat out rejected by labels because of it
>later it becomes a #1 single and you get signed to a huge label with some of the biggest rappers
People honestly can't say Kanye didn't work for it. But he peaked at MBDTF, and will probably never top it unless Kim or someone close to him dies.

rhymefest wrote the bulk of his verses on that song, that’s common knowledge now. and lord knows how much of the production Kanye was actually responsible for (probably just the initial flipping of the samples) and what was relegated Mike Dean (read: most everything) and to the various collaborators that added on to ir

to Mike Dean*

for the most part responsible*
and by they’re not making Louvre tier works I specifically meant kanye’s legion of producers and writers

>you obviously don’t know what an inductive fallacy is
Read more Hume. You're using a claim about what 'is' (Kanye west IS a shit artist because he uses ghostwriters) as a vehicle your claim about what 'ought' to be (artists OUGHT to write their own music). If we treat your claims about Kanye as a claim about ghostwriting in general, then its clear your argument doesn't hold water.

>now you’re not even strawmanning, you’re just completely making shitty arguments up that I never even began to make
1) that's literally what a strawman is you fucking cretin and 2) it's not a strawman to tease out the underlying assumptions that are driving the claims you're making, IE. that kanye is shit because ghostwriting is shit. This bait ought've been better if you weren't totally out to lunch.

>objective criticism
don't make me laugh

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sure, it says that I can recognize retards like you swiftly and adeptly

Oh, right I totally forgot. Music become subjective the moment a shilling sycophant gets his foot in his mouth.

and i made coherent point after coherent point, you just can’t comprehend anything because you’re probably a literal nigger

>make post that doesn't defend Kanye, just the practise of ghostwriting
>some braindead user comes back at you with YOUR ARTISTIC GENIUS IS A TALENTLESS HACK
>repeats same tired argument ad infinitum
Don't know how many times I'm gonna have to say this before it gets through the impenetrable bone density of your skull, but I'll give it one last try– I made no claims as to the quality of Kanye's music, merely the validity of judging him as an artist based on who he collaborates with and to what extent he writes his own music. If can't separate the art from the artist, you're a pleb and you'll always be one, simple as.

>pleb
Oh look. He's mimicking us. That's adorable.

>Kanye west is a shit artist because he uses ghostwriters
low effort low IQ straw man and gross oversimplicstion of what I’m saying, to be expected of a nigger
>musical artists ought to write their own music
the absolute state of niggers. you realize many blacks of yore actually did write and come up with most of their own music? you realize that’s what it means to be an artist? you don’t read Hume motherfucker you don’t even read books at all
>literally what a straw man is
literally as opposed to what, figuratively? kek, how pathetic of a subhuman ape like you to call me a cretin. and as was expected, you’re too much of a retard to understand the distinction I made. a straw man is an intentional misrepresentation of an existing argument, while you were just pulling shit out of your brown monkey ass and trying to claim arguments and points were made that were never brought up to begin with. again, wouldn’t expect a nigger to be able to critically think about such a (((subtle distinction)) kek.
>an underlying assumption that kanye west is shit... despite OP coming right out and saying that
niggers ladies and gentlemen. you completely fail at every turn to argue with anyone itt anything, you’re obviously a low test soinigger in denial about your idol. i feel so bad for you

This is only a recent development, though. And it has a lot to do with record companies wanting to keep black musicians at a level of deskilled, easily replaceable subsistence.

The output has to be authored. If it's just carpentered, it can never be of the highest value.

>unironically defending ghostwriting for any reason
>calling anyone else braindead
if we are braindead you just have no brain at all. just void. i mean that so sincerely.
>still too retarded to understand no one made such arguments to begin with
imagine unironically defending ghostwriting, kanye west, a rapper, rap music at all in the first place, and being so dunning Kruger and elitist about your shit taste in music that you think you have any business calling ANYONE ELSE a pleb. the absolute state of this nigga hahaha. and no you smoothbrain nigger, if you’re unwilling judge art in a multifaceted way that takes every aspect of it into consideration, namely WHO IS FUCKING RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, you are simply a dumb cuck. it’s that simple. one can choose to judge it however the fuck they want, who the fuck are you to try and tell anyone they can’t criticize a piece of art for its flagrant hypocrisy? even normalfags would laugh at your severely handicapped arguments and severely handicapped “intellect”

to judge*

you are unironically the most JUSTed, cucked poster on Yea Forums I’ve ever seen. anyone who reads this thread will see how much of a laughingstock you and your retarded nigger culture is

>ghostwriting is artistic collaboration
Is this what blacks and white rap fans actually believe? How could anyone unironically think this? I fear what zoomers have in store for popular music and this world in general.

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It's the bars that are the issue. Nobody expects him to "write" his music, he's a rapper. But his words must be his own. If his words aren't even his own, and if he's not been giving open credit to those who were really writing them, who the fuck is he? Why couldn't his boy Donald Trump have the exact same career, if you can just buy your rhymes from one guy and your samples from another and your production from a third? I could be Kanye, anyone could be Kanye.

>if I repeatedly call him a nigger and accuse him of misrepresenting my arguments, then I don't have to worry about clarifying what my ACTUAL argument is!

>you realize many blacks of yore actually did write and come up with most of their own music?
not true, black american music (blues, sprituals, work songs, etc.) forms part of a culture that is constantly recycling lyrical material, folk tales and melodic ideas from songs that have been around for ages. Almost all of the race records of the early 20th century were renditions of songs that had been composed and handed down from generation to generation. If you knew anything about music you'd have realised this already, but its pretty clear you just like to talk out of your ass.

>an underlying assumption that kanye west is shit
holy shit how is your reading comprehension this bad? Read that sentence again, I was claiming that your underlying assumption was that GHOSTWRITING was shit. Your claim about kanye being shit is an offshoot of your fundamental rejection of the industry practise of outsourcing songwriting. So either you do think its a bad practise in general (which would make for a more interesting discussion, seeing as that is where my disagreement lies with you), or you're basing your criticism of kanye on faulty premises.

This prevarication is a waste of time, the claim that blacks never compose anything is a slur, and nobody is going to be confused about the differences between collaboration, folk tradition, and hiring a guy as though you were Adele. Kanye hires guys as though he was Adele.

Look out. He's giving the bullshit Rolling Stone magazine tier history lesson now.
Post the lyrics of one African American spiritual from the antebellum period. If you don't respond in 30 seconds, I have to assume you copied and pasted from Wikipedia.

>defending ghostwriting
I'm a session musician who occasionally works as a songwriter, so of course I'm going to defend my livelihood (and also your dunning-kuger meme doesn't apply here either). I don't give a shit about your ethical qualms about 'authenticity', I just care about the quality of the final product.

>defending kanye west
Nope. I don't care for his music, and my posts have consistently and repeatedly stated that.

>flagrant hypocrisy
where is the hypocrisy if Kanye readily and openly admits to using ghostwriters?

>rap fan
flogging_a_dead_horse.jpg

>But his words must be his own
This is probably the most sensible argument in favour of authenticity, but it still falls back on the fallacious assumption that music OUGHT to be written a certain way.

>if he's not been giving open credit to those who were really writing them, who the fuck is he
as far as I'm aware he does usually credit lyric writers.

>I could be Kanye, anyone could be Kanye.
is that not a beautiful thought though? gives us average joes more of a chance of success by catalysing our own careers through him. It gives songwriters so many more opportunities to have their skills heard by the world

Wait why do we care if he has support or even does nothing himself? It's still good music. I don't give a shit who made it

The argument is whether or not that's the work ethic of a genius, self-proclaimed or otherwise.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_Songs_of_the_United_States

You assumed correctly. Doesn't make me any less wrong though.

It proves you're throwing whatever shit at the wall makes you sound mad woke yo.

the word 'genius' gets tossed around a lot when in reality that term should only be used decades or even centuries later when there has been ample time to asses the cultural and musical significance of the artist in question.

>niggers always stole their music
if you say so kek, you effortlessly make yourself look retarded, I didn’t even have to reply but here I am. also my reading comprehension is far superior to yours, I understood the very simplistic and rudimentary argument you were trying to make, you really do suffer from Dunning Kruger my brown friend. truth is i haven’t slept but im alert and sober, I simply don't want to read what you have to say at this point, you’re not saying much of anything of value at all. kanye is shit because he’s shit and ghostwriting is shit and that was also never an underlying assumption, it was very heavily insinuated to also be bad in my opinion throughout this thread. you weren’t intellectually drawing out any underlying assumptions like the scholar you think you are, you were addressing opinions I made very obvious throughout the thread. even still I did understand what you said, and you failed to understand that i never exclusively made the claim that he is shit because ghostwriting is shit, you’re so retarded you remark on my reading comprehension when you have still failed to comprehend that I’m referring to everything about his “artistic practices” not just the ghostwriting of his lyrics. don’t project your poor reading comprehension onto me you retarded baboon. i’m not basing anything on a faulty premise, it’s a very steadfast and solid premise that I’ve even provided solid evidence for that you still have yet to even acknowledge. never argued with a nigger before wow, so dumb and incomprehensible and pointless

excuse me, not insinuated, it should be obvious and it is obvious to actual lovers of good music that ghostwriting is inherently a bad thing. kek. why am I even bothering you’re so lost and primitive

this. not worth replying to you anymore, it’s all so tiresome. the absolute state of hip hop’s subhuman and delusional fans

That’s fine, but I think OP, despite how much he obviously hates rap music and what it’s doing to popular music as a whole (I tend to agree) he seems to be just saying he’s tired of the hypocrisy of him being considered an auteurist artistic genius when he so very obviously isn’t. The hypocrisy in how he’s presented and how he very willingly presents himself despite being, by most accounts and somewhat apparently, a talentless hack. He seems to be mostly just a tastemaker, the George Clinton to his Parliament. Kanye West is more like a band and Kanyenis just the purported ringleader, or he may not be that at all, just the face and persona and voice used to market this music. I completely understand where OP is coming from in this case, I’m also tired of him being shilled this way on Yea Forums in particular when he’s really nothing more than a pop star that can’t even actually sing and isn’t a legitimate musician by any stretch of the measure. The music has nothing to do with it. Stop shilling this fucker and just let the music speak for itself whether you like him or not yeah, but when you’re disingenuous about the source of it all... I mean, it’s obvious isn’t it?

Pathetic
Kanye the goat

>also my reading comprehension is far superior to yours
>you really do suffer from Dunning Kruger
maybe you should try reading your own posts for a change? Your lack of self-awareness is staggering. do you not see the irony here?

>you have still failed to comprehend that I’m referring to everything about his “artistic practices” not just the ghostwriting of his lyrics
you can claim to have 'solid evidence' for this, but you haven't even referenced a single song of his to prove that point. Wherever this evidence is, I certainly haven't seen a shred of it.

>it is obvious to actual lovers of good music
stopped reading right there, there's no way I'm taking the opinion of a 'born in the wrong generation' faggot seriously. If you can't appreciate what someone like Rod Temperton did for Michael Jackson, for example, just because Michael Jackson wasn't writing 100% of his songs, then you must be truly retarded

Every single artist works with other artist
Your post sucks, Kanye rocks and you Will die of AIDS

>Low functioning
Doubtful, he seems to work pretty hard

Imagine getting in an argument with some autist over Kanye West.
>The state of Yea Forums for the last 9 years.

We get it. Ad hominem is the only thing your God-forsaken industry has left to its name. You've simply exhausted the people who have the right combination of viciousness and stupidity necessary to make your criminal racket work.
The only irony here is that for someone apparently so indifferent to the music and personage of Kanye West, you're really adamant about telling off anons who have criticism of him.
Just fuck off already. No one with sensibility or self respect wants you anymore.

The final redpill is that OP is literally a low functioning autistic talentless hack that is only relevant because he can freely post on 4channel making bait claims about a popular recording artist. He's also clearly a demoralized faggot who has spent a few hours too many browsing /pol/

Tips fedora

absolutely based and redpilled

Fucking lol. This guy's upset about popular music.

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>more ad hominem
Whatever happened to that objectivity you were kvetching about an hour ago?

Fuck off you nerd

you're such a fuckin' dork

Your argument is so weak, I'd rather just make you feel bad.

>I come to Yea Forums to participate in a debate club
lmaoing at your life

>makes cringey ad hominem against Kanye
>mad when his argumentation is pointed back at himself.

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What did ye mean by this. Pic is quick screencap from Stronger

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>I come to Yea Forums
this is worse desu

True that hombre

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Keep hollering, lackeys. Maybe with enough (You)'s you can buy that Gucci manbag because alpha males most certainly drip.

embarrasing post
>He just keeps replying

Who is this?

>t. grown man who claims to drip

/pol/ is leaking again

OP something tells me you aren’t all eye contact and social cues either.

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You can tell an artist is intelligent not only depending on his Chain blinga lyrics but also the woman he marries, Kardashian is equal to 0 IQ but he's messing with no bro broke.

Something tells me you're a faggot phoneposter who hasn't looked a man in the eyes since the iPhone I was released if that.

Not even OP and I want to hit you with a brick

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"phoneposter" is the most retarded meme
yeah that's right, sometimes someone will peel their fat ass away from their gaming rig and do something on the internet somewhere else
does that get you all sweaty or what?

>being completely ghostwritten aside from two lines, the most cringeworthy ones in the song mind you
what were the lines

Not as sweaty as you'll be in few hours.

from what? what's your angle? sweaty from work and that's bad?

Itt: asshurt kanye stans