So I've settled for an opera movie(?) of Salome which is considered one of the best out there, second or third of course to actual recordings in a theatre, but I'll have to make do. No luck with Elektra so far though
how do I into Janacek or Debussy what's so good about them? I tried listening to Debussy's Etudes and I just found it too dry and confusing
Cameron Nguyen
>I just found it too dry and confusing then don't "into" him. Are you trying to force yourself to like something? If so, why? Some composers aren't for you, some are. Forcing it is effectively defeating the purpose of music.
Reading Beethoven's own written texts I can see he was almost as megalomaniacal as Wagner
Xavier Rogers
Wagner was humble when talking about Beethoven
Cameron Allen
But Beethoven presents himself as a man with a great mission to fulfill like if he was sended by god himself
Dylan Robinson
Any Mahlerites wanna share their thoughts on Vanska's ongoing Mahler cycle? His recording of the 5th seems pretty good.
David Powell
>(video) >(video) >(video) >(video)
Sebastian Myers
that's the best way to kickstart romanticism though
Michael Turner
>Take the adagietto in this recording: it's VERY slow (over 12 minutes) Listening to the first movement of the second symphony, he sure takes his interpretations to the extremes. I can't believe that this is done by an American orchestra. Chamber like, but on steroids. I don't know if I could make it through all the slow downed sections, but they sure create a lot of tension. youtube.com/watch?v=-oiJrQZWYVk
It's a high quality staging without audience silly, just youtube it before you complain
Brandon Campbell
S C H E R C H E N C H E C H E N
Ethan Lopez
Maderna, Kondrashin, Walter (the earlier the better), live Kubelík.
Liam Bennett
whichever the one I have in my computer is; I don't know what recording it is but it's the best I've listened to
Matthew Roberts
Only other reference for the 5th I have is Scherchen's. His tempi is also extreme though his is also faster than Vanska's. I'm not a big Mahler fan but I do like the "chamber like, but on steroids" aspect of Vanska desu. What other interpretations would you say are good/superior?
Nathan Long
You should listen to Scherchen in 9, fast and chamber-like and as sweet as as an acid bath
Noah Davis
Thank you very much
Joseph Ward
it is also horribly performed
Jose Young
I'm reading the Iliad for the first time. What do you all think would be a good accompaniment?
I just posted it for the memes, but listening to it I'm happy they are singing it in the German version. Unbelievable that you need a French orchestra (thanks IRCAM) doing it in German, while Berlin Philharmonic and last Friday the radio symphony orchestra of Northern Germany did concert versions in English.
Tyler Robinson
Dutch opera actually does a full Licht cycle starting at the end of this month. >it features 4 helicopters the absolute madmen
Owen Foster
i only like the one he did with the Gewandhaus. actually his Mahler is general got a lot more interesting as he got older.
yup, listening to it again the Gewandhaus recording is really great. proper orchestral seating, good tempo, excellent string playing in particular, with some slight portamento even
almost done with this, i can play triples against eights, but working on the few parts where its sixteenths vs triplets youtube.com/watch?v=a8x24hdyKHw also i am this user , so working on that piece and my teacher has my learn a new menuet mozart wrote when he was 5 once a week
what about you?
James Perry
About 70% of the way done with this one.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=960i3fmwfdw Can’t do the Presto with both hands, the fingering is tricky but god does this piece feel good on my hands.
And this too. She plays with a fair amount pedaling which I love. Quite nice
>listening to a performance of Schnittke's Concerto Grosso 1 I haven't heard before >it's a 6/10 so far, mixing is awful but the two violinists have an interesting vibe >nearing the end of the Cadenza, just finished the improv section >first violin fucks up, plays Eb instead of E, it's now a C minor resolution >none of the performers react, almost as if it was planned what the hell is this heretical shit?? timestamp is 18:38 youtube.com/watch?v=782XAugZJJo
here's a little original something I've been working on lately. finally stumbled through a full recording tonight of the first section, though I'm not quite happy with the left hand part at some points.
any comments/thoughts/criticisms welcome whether its on technique or writing etc.
It certainly might have been an actual mistake. In that case, none of the performers would react. The matter of fact is that classical musicians make many errors, most minor some major. In any case, no one would react because they wouldn’t want to call attention to it. This is an almost forgivable error (but not actually), because it immediately moves to the parallel minor anyhow.
Samuel Taylor
>almost forgivable in the sense that anyone who hasn't heard the piece wouldn't notice it, yes. in any other sense, hell no, this is one of the most important moments of the entire piece
William Wilson
By almost forgivable, I meant that it doesn’t screw up any larger organizational structure, but yes, it does ruin a very dramatically potent moment.
Asher Young
that's fair, but at that point I couldn't even take the rest of the performance seriously, so it may as well have fucked up the structure
Eli Ward
This is probably an excellent example of “shouldn’t have been recorded/had recordings distributed”. As a small town dweller, it would be a great privilege to see this work performed live (even if flawed), but flawed performances do not need to be distributed.
Wyatt Howard
Disgusting
Brody Jones
hahahahaha, they should have put wagner instead of Bach
GoT soundtrack isn't bland for tv standards I cannot think of something as memorable as the GoT intro in tv music The writers have give up but not poor Ramin, he is still composing like it's season 1
aside from the theme i cant remember a single theme ramin just uses >le epic modulations over and over
Andrew Martin
>thinking the "what shall we do with the drunken sailor" i-bVII is memorable Plen
Nathan Hall
I like modulations
Jeremiah Bailey
dont we all but compare his use of i-ib which is a staple in many of his (and hans zimmer what are the chances) scores with something like the opening of Beethoven 1, which gets to c major after a perfect cadence in the wrong key i might just be a fag but i guess it does work with the show pretty well
Jack Hill
i said tv standards and you can fuck art hoes just by playing that in the piano
man i hate when he uses pianos its just so out of place use a lyre or a harp or something then again i guess you cant judge what time period its based on
Ravel wrote one of the top 5 ballets of the XXth century, and that one might be n#6 (but this is n#2) youtube.com/watch?v=VrLRHXxKIZ0
Easton Rodriguez
the main motive has a modal quality which is memorable and thematically appropriate, after the first 8 bars I'm not impressed though Vikings has a good theme because they just used a Fever Ray single
Jaxson Turner
Mode mixture isn't a modulation, it can lead to one, but I-i is literally the same tonic bro.
Brody Cook
It's not memorable, just over-familiar. Everything from Zelda to LotR does "le medieval fanfare" by emphasizing the flat seventh scale degree. And in terms of musical craft, the Zelda overworld theme and the Riders of Rohan are WAY more advanced.
GoT just has that really shitty post-minimalist vibe to it.
Isaac Young
ib is a minor second below I so in C, ib is enharmonically equivalent to BDF# (why didn't he just say vii?)
Christian Sanders
I think it is pretty memorable. Many fewer people can hum the Seinfeld or Friends theme, even though they were just as widely viewed. And yes, it's a cliche. But cliches are the essence of commercial film music. I think the real clumsinesss of the composer comes out when he starts to modulate, the theme itself is the least of my complaints.
Matthew Stewart
b/# BEFORE the Stufe modifies its root b/# AFTER the Stufe modifies the third, but is also expressed by upper/lower case roman numerals
Also, the GoT theme (after the i-I preparation) is i-bVII
Alexander Watson
>people actually discussing OSTs, a.k.a. orchestrated pop music from T.V. the sheer state of this general
Adrian Murphy
We /de-general/ now
Is there an earlier example of "le epic Latin choir" soundtrack than Prokovief's Alexander Nevsky?
>Mode mixture isn't a modulation Just because it isn't always prepared doesn't mean it's not a modulation. In moving I-i the tonic chord (and the Reimann lattice) changes.
Zachary Watson
That's because Riemann (actually Hauptmann and Oettingen) unintentionally came up with a theory of post-tonal music. Please get anyone outside of a music theory department to hear C major to C minor as changing the root from c to g and then come back to me. Acoustically, c will remain the root, even if geometrically, the chord structure is inverted.
Brayden Johnson
his Kreutzer sonata is better
Isaiah Sanchez
>changing the root of course the root does not change, the root is the same. But the root CHORD changes. The KEY SIGNATURE changes. Modulation does not have the narrow definition you are insisting on. I-i and modal mixture in general are also known as "Parallel Key Modulation".
Brayden Nelson
In the dualist system, C+ becomes g- if C-E-G becomes C-E-flat-G. The whole Tonnetz depends on the fact that it only knows (directed) perfect fifths and major thirds as intervals. You literally cannot have a minor third above your root and keep your Riemannian lattice. I mean you can, but then you're a sloppy, eclectic thinker.
Also, mode mixture does not mean they key signature changes. It can be much more transient, limited to one scale degree, etc. I simply insist on the common-sense definition of modulation after 1800: A change of key center, defined as a pitch class hierarchically superior to others and a point of relative repose.
Jaxson Cook
>You literally cannot have a minor third above your root and keep your Riemannian lattice. I mean you can, but then you're a sloppy, eclectic thinker. You have your row of fifths and you shift from the row of modal tones above to the row below A E B F C G D Ab Eb Bb It is entirely possible that this is a heterodox interpretation of Riemann's original theory. I am not a theory scholar.
Caleb Rivera
>It can be much more transient, limited to one scale degree If one scale degree changes then the set of pitches in the scale changes. I am not speaking of strictly classical key signatures. The modulation vs mixture issue is real though
Jeremiah Phillips
Note how all major triads are represented as triangles that point upwards, while minor triads point downwards. The fundamental unit here is the triad. I think our confusion stems from the fact that you think the basic unit here is the diatonic scale, it's not.
Oliver Roberts
for me, it's H minor
Jordan Moore
It depends on the listener and musical tradition. Speaking of "mode mixture/borrowed pitches" ultimately implies a deviation from a hierarchically superior / underlying pitch or scale, i.e. it implies a tonic chord or tonic scale, whereas "change of scale" is more neutral. The former clearly makes sense in Mozart, but might miss the point in Debussy or modal jazz.
>The modulation vs mixture issue is real though By which I mean there is an issue of extent analagous to the modulation/tonicization distinction with modal mixture >the basic unit here is the diatonic scale The basic unit IS the diatonic scale, for the same acoustical reasons you have mentioned. Nobody outside of music departments thinks fundamentally in terms of the chromatic scale. Now like I said, I cannot guarantee that Riemann would have agreed with me, but that's not really the point. Modulation doesn't mean what you seem to think it means and a quick Google of "parallel key modulation" would readily demonstrate that to you.
Parker Young
Yeah, the lines are blurred in some traditions. Not in the fucking Game of Thrones theme.
Sebastian Turner
The fundamental units in Riemann are the two consonant triads. The diatonic scale can be derived from them, which you intuitively do. But there is no point in having the Tonnetz if you don't make it about triads. If you just want diatonic scales, you might as well just say "6 fifths up from F" vs "6 fifths down from D", e.g. Ab Eb Bb > F C G D < A E B.
Yeah, the major triad in the tonic is transient and everything around it is unambiguously minor. QED.
Logan Bennett
none of those read H though
Zachary Perry
Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder
Nolan Clark
fucking idiot
James Reed
>Make it around the triads You're splitting hairs here. The triads change too. >Yeah, the major triad in the tonic is transient and everything around it is unambiguously minor. The major triad is totally unambiguous though, unlike in some other idioms.
Landon Miller
Yeah, the major tonic in the theme is UNAMBIGOUSLY a temporary, transient deviation from the underlying natural minor tonic and scale. There is no modulation here in any sense. It's such a blatantly tension-raising, quasi-dissonant moment too.
Jacob Garcia
the Cyrillic letter н is pronounced like the Latin letter n. if you want it to read h, it has to be х
Benjamin Flores
>There is no modulation here in any sense Well now you're just changing your argument so you can win internet points. Your original argument was that moving from major to minor doesn't ever constitute a modulation. But sure, fine! You win!
John Long
everyone fucking knows that, it's you that's the moron who had to autismospazz over a 27 year old joke you fucking assburger
Cooper Parker
>assburger it's acc6yprep, dumbass
Logan Sullivan
I haven't changed my conception at all. I'm merely saying this isn't even what you would call a "parallel key modulation". And still, I don't consider a change from a major to a minor key a modulation. It does not change the tonic pitch, which remains c.
>implying I watch your stupid fucking literal who show that nobody cares about or could even recognize
Cameron Johnson
2/10
Isaiah Cox
go masturbate over forgotten arthouse anime over on Yea Forums you fucking hipster weeb, 1/10
Ryan Richardson
ok that's a 4.5/10
Jace Jackson
why the .5? and why are you still here, pushing for gay communist anime in a fucking literature forum?
Michael Smith
because it wasn't good enough to warrant a full 5, but the style was duly refined and deserved to be bumped up to more than twice its previous score
Carter Flores
stop it, this isn't a fucking game, I'm going to kill you, I'm going to literally fucking kill you if you keep on discussing anime and rating other people's reality checks on a fucking AUTOMOBILE FORUM
Noah Cox
overdoing it now, boy
Mason Jones
holy shit user, did you just assume my age and gender? that's it, I just ordered a rope on Amazon, see you when I livestream my suicide, I hope you're fucking happy
>Villa-Lobos composed his Seventh Symphony in Rio de Janeiro in 1945 for a competition in Detroit. As required by the rules of the competition, it was submitted anonymously, using the pseudonym A. Caramurú. It was not awarded a prize in the competition. OH NO NO NO NO NO NONONONONONO Villa-lobos BTFO
Can I become an ok composer if I lack artistic creativity but I'm very good at music theory (harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, et) to produce 'effective' 'good sounding' pieces, and can play piano at intermediate level?
no creativity or inspiration means soulless music. are you okay with being another Jacob Collier?
Jonathan Rogers
better to assume you can learn creativity, accept that it's possible you can't and try anyways
Easton Sanchez
Dont be insecure, asking this on the internet is wasting time I personally believe in talent, you have it or you dont Most people who drown in theory can only make "ok" music
Nolan Peterson
any music students or theory students here? I keep seeing stuff like "V7b" or "Ic" or "ii7b" etc and was wondering what the hell that is? I'm thinking some kind of autistic way of writing secondary dominants but it doesn't seem consistent
John Gomez
>V7b ii7b major fifth with flat seventh, minor second with flat second >Ic no fucking clue
Elijah Davis
>with flat second meant seventh, don't mind me, just being retarded
Hudson Thompson
>major fifth with flat seventh That would be Vb7 >minor second with flat second That would be bii
it's the letter "B", not a "flat" symbol, because there are chords with a, b, c, d...
Here's an excerpt from what I'm reading: >A secondary dominant: Gm V7d of IV (F, G, B natural, D) Yeah I get that it's a V7 of IV in the key of Gm but what does the "d" stand for?
Juan Powell
Sounds like amateurs using Roman numerals. Flattening those minor sevenths doesn't make sense, nor does the b seem to refer to the third - since that's already specified by the upoer/lower case Roman numeral.
Bentley Evans
sometimes they use letters instead of numbers (like in figured bass notation) to indicate chord inversions, so assuming the b's are not flat symbols:
V7b = dominant seventh chord, first invertion Ic = Tonic, major chord, second invertion ii7b = super tonic, minor seventh chord, first invertion
Henry Jones
... and "d" would be the third inversion
Nathaniel Bailey
Ah that explains it, thanks for the tip.
Adrian Ward
Roman numeral analysis is so depressing.
Matthew Thompson
There’s so music theory being discussed here that I feel like the dumbass. :’)
Ian Campbell
why not a for first inversion?
Hudson James
"a" is for root position, but often it's omitted
Blake Gomez
wait, so you're not treating first inversion as root position like I had assumed, which means that you've actually assigned an actual independent meaning to third inversion?
Camden Fisher
Third inversion only exists for seventh chords.
Anthony Watson
it's standard root position = root in bass 1st inversion = third in bass 2nd inversion = fifth in bass and so on
Jonathan Jones
I or Ia = root position Ib = first inversion Ic = second inversion V7d = third inversion
Third inversion is only possible in chords with 7ths, 9nths or more
Parker Nelson
oh right, I forgot we were talking about seventh chords, whoops
William Kelly
VI7a = i6d halp my eyes hurt :(((
Christopher Gonzalez
Wait what? What style are we in
Nathaniel Wilson
a seventh chord built on the submediant in a major key is enharmonic to the chord built in the tonic of said key with an added sixth and in third inversion
Assuming C major key:
VI7a = A + C + E + G
I6a = C + E + G + A
but it's in third inversion (A, the sixth, is in the bass) so:
I6d = A + C + E + G
VI7a = I6d
Adam Rivera
It's a minor key though. Added MINOR sixths are really rare. Added major sixths are semi-common on subdominant chords prolonging a tonic (French baroque music, some Brahms), and become a stylistic flourish on tonics in stuff like French 20th century chanson.
I'd REALLY like to know what actual music this book is referencing.
is there a name for letters -> chord inversion? i've never seen it
Austin Wood
So you mean unoriginal but effective? I guess that'd be an ok composer, yeah. But without inspiration (not the same as creativity) I doubt you'll be able to do something that isn't mediocre. So, you know, try, get inspired and shit.
It does seem a bit overwrought and pathos-oriented (much like a lot of anime soundtracks). But the orchestration and harmonic language are far more advanced than most anime composers. In fact, Adès seems, in recent works, to be finally striking a stylistic balance (where before he opted for strongly variegated styles).
Jacob Gonzalez
A Sea Symphony is sort of a lackluster piece. The music is not as evocative as much of Williams’ catalog. I think he intended the text/vocal writing to be the main focus, and he underwrote the orchestral ensemble. It’s kind of mediocre relative to his other works.
Sebastian Baker
ask the ghost of celibidache anything
Brody Hernandez
anything?
Daniel Clark
>someone asks for classical guitar pieces >everyone just replies with boring romantic horsecrap every single time
Ethan Wood
Yes? Classical guitar is mostly horsecrap anyway, it was popular music that made the instrument not suck. youtube.com/watch?v=ChrHR1z7Jao
Jaxson Green
Not sure where else to ask this...
Why are keyboard stands so high?
I bought a stand for my Yamaha P45 and the MINIMUM height of the stand is 70 cm, which is the height that a piano's KEYS should sit at. Considering that the piano itself is a good 15 cm, thing brings the keys up to 85 cm.
I'm thinking of returning the stand but basically all the stands I can find are this high. Most go up to 100 cm. Who the fuck plays a piano that is 1 meter from the floor?
i think it's for people standing up? i had to use one of the lowest setting on my stand to sit
Nicholas Ross
That is pretty much a standard for desk heights. Are you sure you're not just a manlet in denial? Maybe get a better chair. Keep it up user, you could be the next Gould.
Oh that explains it. Thanks for clearing that up. Might have a go playing standing up since I've never done it.
I don't have a problem at most pianos since I'm 5'10". It's just because I'm using a portable piano/stand. Also the reason Gould looks like he's tiny is because he sits on a tiny chair.
I didn't post anything romantic I think the guitar is a folk instrument And both Villa-lobos and Mangoré though of their own music as Folk music
Juan Powell
How many Vivaldi fans are aware of his operas and church music?
Elijah Carter
I think Vivaldi "fans" are just guys who listen to the five seasons on YouTube and post "he was the yngwie malsteem of the 18th century". But I may be wrong
Xavier Jackson
>five seasons oh god no
Jordan Morris
Vivaldi's lost masterpiece dedicated to the perfect spicy meatball?
>John c*ge has more fans de Prez, Scriabin, Du Fay, Janáček, Messiaen, Tallis, Webern, Berg, von Bingen, de Machaut, Perotin, Ockeghem and a bunch of other composers I don't know well but are obviously much better than c*ge
Pierre Hantai is my favorite Scarlatti but I doubt the french bastard is ever going to record all of them (at least he recorded my favorite sonata); listen to Ross if you want someone that has recorded all of them.
Eli Sanders
tbqh Cage, Copland and Britten have no place among the greatest 100, fucking amateurs hyped by mutts and bongs
Brayden Foster
True. But man, c*ge is the worst """composer""" in history, he shouldn't be even in a top 1000000000000.
Xavier Hill
C*ge said that _any_ sound is music, no wonder he's the most hated composer of all time
Why does Mahler's 1st end the way it does? He builds up to a potentially perfect endings with the heroic horns playing over the violin staccato, only to throw it all away with that jewish motif on the trumpets. Did he do it to spit in our face? Could've had the best ending to a symphony ever behind Jupiter.
>what other genres a SHITLOAD >is this regarded well by classical critics I'm not sure many classical critics are aware of krautrock or "out there" rock music in general. Unless you mean the people on this general, in which case I'd hadrly consider anyone here a "classical critic"
I even tried to make a piano transcription of it, didn't go very well
Joseph Perez
In what world is that controversial
Evan Ortiz
Good album. I mostly listen to American Primitivism besides classical, but I also listen to some jazz, Nico, Kayo Dot, some metal, folk music, some punk, blues... Idk, a bunch of stuff. I still like classical far more than all of those, American Primitivismis the only one with works I like as much as my favorite classical music.
I use $10 earbuds 90% of the time and they always sound fine, I have no idea what type of Indonesian hellhole your headphones come from. Then again I do play the violin so maybe I'm just biased.
Juan Adams
>maybe I'm just based* FTFY violinbro
Ethan Scott
Antonio José's sonata. Promising Spanish composer who died young by a firing squad.
Her music lacks breadth, but one cannot deny its dramatic power.
Christian White
Is there anything Beethoven has done that Mozart didn't do better? Serious question as I start to really dislike Beethoven the more I understand Mozart's greatness and I don't want that.
Adrian Martin
You're retarded. Mozart and Beethoven had completely different goals in music and thus accomplished different forms of greatness. It's not a contest.
Logan Cook
>different goals in music >different forms of greatness
Which are?
Landon Russell
Mozart was great licking butts and Beethoven was great on being angry about anything
Benjamin Collins
He wrote songs, they don't show a lot of promise imho.
In a world where Wagnerites like to think of themselves as a persecuted minority.
Kevin Watson
Lmao
Brody Stewart
>so maybe I'm just deaf in one ear
Julian Sanchez
In short: Mozart: >ease of expression >sounding beautiful no matter what emotion is being expressed or no matter how complex the music is
Beethoven: >strives to express the human soul in music >will sacrifice beauty or accessibility to achieve this
In short, basically the difference between the Classical and Romantic ideals, of course you're welcome to prefer either but to say Mozart did everything Beethoven did but better is just ignorant
