Does anyone have the original file of this, can’t find it on google

how is rap hardcore

there is something called hardcore hip hop and its a genre

nvm im retarded

This one's from 2016. We should update it. There's a lot of stuff there no one cares about anymore, like AnCo, Capt. Beefheart, Swans, Godspeed and maybe King Crimson.

It's supposed to be representative of the most discussed and critically acclaimed albums in this board --basically the safest recs one can get from Yea Forums--. The other chart, , lists a lot of recordings of all types of music, curated only by one user, and though it's well appreciated, it would be to hold to the opinions of one single person --and honestly, insted you look for it, there's no case of designating some spaces in the list for traditional music of Zimbabwe or whatever--.

Not a bad list, but doesn't need to be as long.

while I find the Avant-Math chart to be fun and informative, I don't think its a replacement for a Yea Forumscore chart since it completely sidesteps the essential purpose of Yea Forumscore, which is to introduce newfags to the specific taste of Yea Forums.

I agree with that the Yea Forumscore chart can be updated. I would prefer a new one to be more concise, as then it and the avant-math chart can act as companions to one another - one for getting into Yea Forums, one for branching out and exploring music history.

If the chart is for newcomers it should be much shorter and have a brief description explaining why each album should be listened to.

That's a good idea. Maybe having that on a blog or something

linking to a blog or wiki is a good idea, otherwise it'd have to be a small chart to stay reasonable.

>We should update it.
We already did >It's supposed to be representative of the most discussed and critically acclaimed albums in this board
It isn't. Take a look at the metal and electronic sections, for example. Those were never representative on here. Yea Forumscore is what the boards try to force newcomers to listen to, and forcing them to listen to shitty pitchfork core is NOT what we want to force them to listen to.
Again, why do you want to reinforce the vicious circle that is shitty Yea Forumscore? Let's aim for something better and more diverse.

>it would be to hold to the opinions of one single person
Not really. My chart was made under some specific relatively objective criteria to avoid specifically that, a chart being biased by my own personal taste, and I think I succeeded in removing this bias.

>there's no case of designating some spaces in the list for traditional music of Zimbabwe or whatever
Why not? It's essential music considering the fact its the music that an entire culture listens to, and in some cases aiming at the millions of people. Meanwhile we get a niche tech death metal album on the chart that people on Yea Forums don't even listen to, and is nowhere near as far as reaching a million listeners.

It actually needs to be longer. I think 2500 would be ideal.

>which is to introduce newfags to the specific taste of Yea Forums
But we don't want this. That's one of the things that keeps the board at a lower quality. Read my first reply in this post for more details.

None of them "should" be listened to. If we go by stuff that people on Yea Forums "should" be listening to then add 5 albums of the following genres: traditional, classical, jazz, rhythm & blues, rock, electronic dance, experimental, and other. The rock fanboyism does more harm than good on this board, you know?

Your insistence that your chart replace Yea Forumscore is one of the biggest reasons your chart receives pushback. Even if you don't find the inherent purpose of Yea Forumscore to be valuable, you need to recognize that others do find it valuable and will continue to make and update Yea Forumscore charts because your chart simply doesn't fulfill the same purpose.

this

>one of the biggest reasons your chart receives pushback
Not really. The strongest pushback comes mostly from this one guy who keeps getting mad at three specific choices (two of which were already changed afterwards).

I understand perfectly well what you are saying about Yea Forumscore, but you have to realize that Yea Forumscore can change, and we can change it ourselves. Yea Forumscore is really just re-branded pitchfork-core, really, but we can aim at becoming better than that, eventually turning "fake Yea Forumscore" into "real Yea Forumscore". ITAOTS stopped being Yea Forumscore at some point, something that years ago would have been unthinkable, so it's not unreasonable to think we can change Yea Forumscore to be more representative of music in general (and not just a low-quality copy of pitchfork-core). I would love to make such a super-abridged chart, mostly as a way to "hierarchize" the music discovery process, but I just haven't had the time to do that lately.

I'm aware Yea Forumscore changes. Everyone is aware of this. It's why several of us were discussing the fact that all the most recent Yea Forumscore charts floating around are a bit out of date.

I do think Yea Forumscore could do with a bit more diversity, but I don't think there's any point lying to newcomers about what happens to get discussed here. Most of a potential new Yea Forumscore chart should still be of a western-focused rockist bent because most of what gets seriously discussed that isn't new is rockist stuff. The diversification of Yea Forumscore will be something that happens over generations of charts - I think your big historical chart will inevitably help with that.

>I don't think there's any point lying to newcomers about what happens to get discussed here
But you are reinforcing a (negative) vicious circle there. New users get drawn to Yea Forumscore, which in turns solidifies Yea Forumscore even more, and so on. We want to avoid this. And it's not like the previous chart didn't lie either (see: electronic and metal sections), and nobody complained, so I think it's fine to "lie" a little. A lot of users simply won't ever listen to stuff beyond rockist albums simply because they don't know better, even if they had the intentions to, which is something the previous Yea Forumscore chart didn't help with (it did the opposite).

Really outdated with regards to trap. Takes no account towards the modern trap crooner genre. For the most part it's pretty good but it's horrifically backpacker in the hip hop section. Implying T.I. is the most representative artist of trap as a whole is hilariously off-base

>no Black Parade
Not even good

>Takes no account towards the modern trap crooner genre
There is only so much you can do with only one thousand recordings.

>it's horrifically backpacker in the hip hop section
The hip hop chart could be a lot better, the problem is that when it comes to hip hop genres are less than ideal for categorization, which is why the section feels weaker overall.

>Implying T.I. is the most representative artist of trap as a whole is hilariously off-base
The chart isn't implying that. It only implies T.I. is one of the earliest examples of trap music. Trap in its "primordial form", so to say.

>T.I. is one of the earliest examples of trap music
it's like 13 tracks and has 2 trap songs

>There is only so much you can do with only one thousand recordings.
I understand that but given how significant and influential the genre has proven itself to be I think it's more than worthy of some mention on the chart. It's a lot more influential in terms of the mainstream than many of the genres that are represented on there.

>T.I. is one of the earliest examples of trap music. Trap in its "primordial form", so to say.
T.I. Has about as much to do with trap in it's current form as that one beat on B-Boy Bouillabaisse that sounds sort of like trap due to it's rattling hi-hats. A much better example of the current sound in a "primordial form" would be Flockavelli

Maybe you are right. I could replace that one. Any suggestions? Keep in mind it should be an early example of the genre.

The criteria is based on RYM genres, and since there isn't a genre for the style of trap you are talking about I can't really add it to the chart. The hip hop category is already pretty tight as it is, so I really don't think I should add another trap recording.

>A much better example of the current sound in a "primordial form" would be Flockavelli
It seems like a good candidate. It seems like Gucci Manes' Trap House might be a better choice though.

or you know u just say that mucores pretty good and well respected amongst most here like chill just add some shit remove some shit

>mucores pretty good and well respected amongst most here
Only because that's what most people get first exposed to on here.

ya and thats a good thing lmao do u not understand what im saying

>The criteria is based on RYM genres
Yeah I kinda got that, but I find it really admirable how your chart seems to really be trying to escape from rockist stereotypes, especially with regards to the regional picks. It's unfortunate then that you seem to have chained yourself to a database that while yes, it's very informative and has massive potential, is run by a rockist as fuck userbase that doesn't even acknowledge HUGE trends in the mainstream. The chart needs a bit of a re-work imo to become more representative of musical trends as a whole imo. I'm drunk as fuck rn so I can't fully suggest how to change it but I will continue to work on the topic. I think hip hop needs a major rework, maybe even expand the number of recordings if you have too to become less restrictive. Think, the trap crooner/OVO sound genre literally covers huge swaths of the mainstream and is wholly unrepesented, while pretty much every major artist on the charts borrows from that sound. WHy not find a spot for Take Care to represent that? IMO Trap has become big and influential enough in itself it should have it's own row imo, you could include latin some significant latin pop-trap recordings in there as well which is huge atm. Also what about modern k-pop, another huge genre that seems to be wholly unrepresented? Tying yourself to RYM seems to be a major drawback in genral to me.

yes
this is the correct version

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I don't think that cycle is nearly as strong as you think - you gave the perfect example yourself, with ITAOTS falling out of favor, and there are others. A lot of rap music has entered Yea Forumscore in just the past few years as rockists open up to the genre, and as new great rap albums are released.

It's probably okay for Yea Forumscore to lie a bit, but its not nearly the only avenue we have for encouraging exploration. Yea Forumscore is not nearly the only kind of chart a newfag will see - your own chart will be seen by tons of newfags. As far as how much Yea Forumscore is allowed to lie, its a matter of degrees. Its one thing for Kind of Blue to be in Yea Forumscore, but it'd be very different if we were trying to work in some kind of African regional music, if you know what I mean. There's a good bit of people on here who are really into Jazz, and less than a handful of the other.

It would be even better if people on here got first exposed to a more diverse range of styles.

The RYM genre database has a lot of flaws, but I don't think this specific case is one of those. IF one day RYM adds more trap sub-genres I will need to rework the chart to make it fit, but so far I think its okay. Even if they did add that genre, I don't think I could put it in the chart, since around a third of the hip hop genres on RYM couldn't make it on the chart, and I believe some of the others left behind deserve a spot more than a second iteration of trap rap.

>I think hip hop needs a major rework
I agree completely. But it's not easy to find a proper categorization scheme for hip hop.

>maybe even expand the number of recordings if you have too to become less restrictive.
I can't expand it. All the sections are pretty tight, and expanding the hip hop category would mean taking away from the rhythm & blues category in this case, which is already as small as it can get, if you ask me.

If you want to keep in touch (since you are drunk now) you can use the contact information I provided in the description from the chart.

>Trap has become big and influential enough in itself it should have it's own row imo
There are a lot of genres more deserving than trap in this case who still only got one spot though. It's easy to suggest to add something, but keep in mind this means removing something else, and then it becomes a bit more of a problem.

>what about modern k-pop, another huge genre that seems to be wholly unrepresented?
I'm not sure if it even is a genre, but I still added one early example of k-pop in the chart.

>Tying yourself to RYM seems to be a major drawback in genral to me.
It's done so that the criteria for the chart remains more objective, otherwise it would reflect my tastes more.

>I can't expand it
Why not? Seems pretty retarded to me to try to define all of music in such a limited number of recordings. Especially when you cannot acknowledge huge genre trends without disregarding other huge genre trends due to such arbitrary self imposed restrictions.

>I believe some of the others left behind deserve a spot more than a second iteration of trap rap.
I'm also really unsure about this, what criterai are you using?? Look at fucking billboard since 2015, at least one song on there at almost all times shows influence from trap rnb/trap crooning/OVO sound... if that's not enough to secure it's significance in your eyes idk what is

>I don't think that cycle is nearly as strong as you think
It is, it's just that the Yea Forumscore chart isn't the only factor in the equation. Nowadays hip hop is a lot more popular simply because users keep spamming that stuff (and because it's popular everywhere else, sure). But without the Yea Forumscore chart, ITAOTS would be even lesser known, and you can still have an entire thread dedicated to the album and get multiple replies.

>as rockists open up to the genre
Modern hip hop is a rockist genre though.

Regarding your second paragraph, sure, there is more to Yea Forumscore when it comes to exploration, but setting up a positive and actually diverse canon (because the Yea Forumscore chart is by far the most popular chart on Yea Forums) is what will have the greatest influence. I don't think it really matters if the Yea Forumscore chart represents whats popular on here or not, it's such an unhelpful metric, you might as well lie all the way through, if you ask me.

>Why not?
I mean, I would love to make a chart composed of 2500 recordings one day, but that will take a veeeeeryyyyy looooong time, so I need to stick with the 1111 recordings version by now.

>to try to define all of music
This is only an introduction though.

>Especially when you cannot acknowledge huge genre trends
Trap rap is already on the chart, so I am acknowledging it. I can only have so many recordings for each genre while the 1111 version is what we have.

>I am acknowledging it.
Yes, but not in its modern incarnation as most people today know it. See my post here

literally who would listen to 80% of that

>what criterai are you using?
The RYM genre database.

Trap rap IS indeed significant, but the chart is based on diversity of styles, not on popularity, so what the billboard is composed of isn't very relevant.

And I can't acknowledge the modern incarnation of so many other genres either, like contemporary rhythm & blues, psychedelic rock, industrial, modern classical, and so on. If it's not different enough to become its own genre in the eyes of the RYM community its not different enough to have its own entry on this chart. We need to draw a line somewhere, and this is a good line to draw.

I would. It has been a very enjoyable experience so far.

That's totally fair but I think most would agree that most modern trap in a post Young Thug world in which the lines between singing and rapping have been significantly blurred bears a huge difference to the trap music (if it could even be fairly called that to a reasonable extent) of T.I.. I understand what you are saying but I think we can both agree it's a huge area of missing information.

Do you really need a whole row for smooth jazz? Couldn't you eliminate some of those records in favour of more fairly representing trap and trap-rnb?

>I think we can both agree it's a huge area of missing information
That's right.

>a huge difference to the trap music (if it could even be fairly called that to a reasonable extent) of T.I.
True, I will probably replace T.I. anyways. Let's Get It by Young Jeezy or Trap House by Gucci Mane are probably the albums that will replace it.

>Do you really need a whole row for smooth jazz?
I need a hundred albums for jazz, with each jazz category being composed of 20 albums. Smooth jazz happened to be "lucky" in this respect to get 5 albums. Don't dismiss the genre as just the stuff Kenny G was doing though, there is more depth to smooth jazz than that.

>Couldn't you eliminate some of those records in favour of more fairly representing trap and trap-rnb?
Not really. There is a fixed number of a hundred recordings for each of the "big" non-traditional music genres (classical, jazz, rhythm & blues and hip hop, rock, electronic dance, and experimental and other), so taking from smooth jazz only releases space for other jazz recordings, while adding more for hip hop requires removing from other hip hop.

See, I don't think you can just set up a diverse canon and expect people to accept it. If you have a Yea Forumscore chart that lies all the way through, people will just repost an earlier version or make their own. The lies have to be small and deliberate. You can make 1 in 20-25 albums a calculated "lie" because eventually enough people will have listened to it that it truly becomes Yea Forumscore, but when you go beyond that people will just get suspicious and reject the whole chart. The Yea Forumscore chart has to represent what's popular, because a specific version of the chart becoming the one everyone posts is a mostly democratic process.

Yea Forumscore doesn't "necessarily" mean what's popular on here, it can also mean what's a suggested listening. I don't think newcomers would complain because the "required listening list" includes jazz and classical, for example (as I believe they would be the most eager to diversify their taste in this way). In this way it's not a real lie.

>The Yea Forumscore chart has to represent what's popular
But it doesn't and it hasn't. See: electronic and metal sections, plus a lot of the "classics", and even the arguably "outdated" "regular" Yea Forumscore picks from the previous chart.

>because a specific version of the chart becoming the one everyone posts is a mostly democratic process
In a way, sure. Let's educate the people who are posting the "outdated" chart then. Yea Forumscore is only Yea Forumscore if it gets spammed for long enough after all.

why is some weird overly-online tripfriend deciding what is and isn't Yea Forumscore?

This whole discussion is lowkey gay af.

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he isnt no ones agreed with him in this thread

I still have some issues with your chart, mainly the over emphasis of trad folk and how it dominates everything else. I feel it could be split into a couple different charts. The rock section is painfully condensed (one compilation represents all of the 50s, you skip a bunch of famous albums, especially for specific sub genres)
I also think your argument for why the original chart isn’t Yea Forumscore is kinda weak. Yeah, the bleeps/metal/jazz sections aren’t Yea Forumscore, but it also clearly differentiated what is Yea Forumscore and what isn’t.
My view
>the Yea Forumscore chart should be small and updated every year in order to represent what is most discussed here in order to get newfags into board culture
>your chart on the history of music just isn’t Yea Forumscore in any way, and it should be expanded in certain sections

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If these three parts were combined into one chart and expanded upon, it would be a great chart
I have to ask, what program did you use to compile these? I might embark on a task like this over the summer

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There is not an over emphasis of trad folk. Trad folk is, by a large margin, the most diverse "genre" of music there is.
All sections are painfully condensed, not just the rock one. That's the nature of a chart with only a thousand albums.
Those sections were still bundled in the Yea Forumscore chart though. It's "lying" a bit. But I insist, Yea Forumscore is what gets spammed as Yea Forumscore, not necessarily what's the most popular here.

We don't need, nor want, the previous concept of Yea Forumscore. It getting updated would act in dentriment of the board.
It is Yea Forumscore if it starts getting spammed as Yea Forumscore. And I can't expand any sections, as the chart can barely fit one thousand albums.

It's better not to separate them since it works better as a whole rather than the sum of its parts. You also lose the description and links that way. There is no need to split it.

I made my own program.

I'm not sure why you singled out those specific charts though.

BTW, I might go to sleep now (or maybe not), so feel free to contact me using the contact information from the chart so we can discuss more about it.

I singled out those sections cause those are very connected types of music over time, blues came from folk and became rock n roll, then the folk revival in the 60s lead to folk rock, rock split into hard rock, prog and punk, hard rock became metal and its sub genres, prog lead to math rock and post-rock, punk combined with pop in the 2000s
There’s a huge diversity that came about from these. A giant “rock” chart containing all these different elements would be amazing

This isn't really true. Blues came from west african folk (which you didn't include) through afro-american work songs, while rock and roll was born out of jump-blues, itself a development out of swing (not blues).
Prog didn't lead to math rock, post-hardcore did. The origins of post-rock are dubious, but the best candidate so far has been slowcore, if you ask me. Punk didn't combine with pop as pop isn't a genre. Pop punk was already a thing in the 70s anyways.
There is a huge diversity that came from the other charts mentioned, the specific sections you cropped aren't particularly special compared to the rest. I think, and I don't mean this in a negative way, that you are too biased in favor of rock music here. I am more experienced in rock music than everything else in the chart, but I don't get that to stop me from analysing the situation objectively and determining that rock is just one out of many worlds of music, no more special than the rest.