"He Understood nothing of the music of Bach. I've listened carefully to his records: he didn't understand. He was very brilliant; I respect him up to a certain point. For me, the fact that an artist doesn't appear in public poses a problem. But at least he was a guy with the courage not to do things like other people. All the same, he was wide of the mark, so wide of the mark you'd need a 747 to bring him back. I'm hard on Glenn Gould. Well he's dead now, so I won't attack a colleague" -Scott Ross on Glenn Gould
>There's simply no point in creating a recording unless you believe you can bring something to the piece that nobody else ever has Wow Gould was a retard who wanted to be different to single himself out who knew
Joshua Diaz
>Gould just had a very Different idea of what a recording of classical music should be yeah, he wanted a bad, robotic recording with humming.
Landon Russell
Interested in Henze. Any recommended works from Henze?
seeing Mahler 9 tonight considering taking my score with me and reading along but i dont want people thinking im an autist
Samuel Butler
why would anyone think that ???
Elijah Baker
I saw two guys in my life taking the score with them in the audience. Once for Ligeti's Le Grand Macabre, probably a conducting student, so absolutely OK. The other time was for Parsifal and yes he was a Wagner autist. As long as you can turn the pages without making noise who cares.
Parker Rodriguez
Never seen someone do that before but I'd say go for it, especially if you haven't heard the piece top often before. Just try to not make too much noise when turning the pages.
On a somewhat related note, I'm going to Rossini's Il viaggio del Reims tonight (or actually some weird mix between traditional and modern staging), but I've never heard it before. What should I listen for? And should I read the libretto / look at the score beforehand?
Anthony Nelson
Too often*
Luis Morales
What kind of madman takes all the repeats in the Andante of Mozart's 40th Shit takes like 15 minutes
Hunter Flores
as long as theres subtitles or you can speak fluent italian, id say go in blind either way id definitely get a programme
Benjamin Clark
Don Giovanni is underrated here
James Lopez
Tbh I can't find whether there's subtitles or not, anyone have experience at the Bolshoi?
Dominic Fisher
I finally got my piano tuned yesterday and I'm trying to learn simple pieces. Why is sheet music so hard? I understand the spaces melodies occupy but I'm not comprehending the rhythm part.
Literally anything in human knowledge is available to learn through the internet. I just suck.
Lucas Garcia
This was maybe okay in the age before recordings. But if you can just follow along to a recording, why wouldn't you just go to the concert and enjoy the show?
Jack Hill
It seriously throws off the proportions of the work so much. Without the repeats, it's nice and tight. With repeats, there is far too much emphasis on the andante.
Technically that's true, but it is unreasonable to expect yourself to gain good piano technique just by imitating it. You will end up missing some part of it and gaining bad habits without knowing, having a teacher will help you fix that. If you want to play pop songs and easy music you don't have to get one, but if you want to play just about anything posted here, a teacher is essential.
Asher Gonzalez
The internet is full of shit as well and you aren't good at teaching yourself stuff you have no idea about, so don't kid yourself. Get a teacher.
I can see that. As an instrumentalist and composer, I wouldn't necessarily care in any primary fashion about connecting with the conductor (preferring rather to focus on the composition and performance). But if you were more interested in conducting, I suppose that it might be valid to take a score along.
just put on a metronome and practice. i too used to say "aaach it's so hard i can't get the rythm" but just keep trying and eventually you'll "get" it.
did take the score in the end, felt good to pick up on some details i think id miss otherwise, especially the orchestras underplayed dynamics was good though apart from the disabled guy having orgasms throughout the entire thing, especially when he ruined the incredibly delicate final movement conductor didnt even bother with a silence after the end because of it
Wow its actually legitimately good music this time. Good find. However I think you overestimate the quality of video game music on the whole. Generally we don't want it and when people post it its just some cinematic crap in the vein of Hans Zimmer.
A lot of vidya has good music. Better than your average movie score for sure. But it's just not classical music and even if it was there's just a lot of better stuff to talk about.
You're the pleb for not knowing there is no slow movement in that piece.
Jayden Young
How's that contrarianism going for you? Name 1 thing wrong with the 2nd mvmt of Sibelius' 2nd.
Juan Mitchell
Anyone here know the feel of having grade 8 in an instrument but still sounding like shit? I can't think of a single piece with which I don't improvise some of the notes, I have the structure and general sound down but inevitably some of the tinier details like precise voicings etc I don't remember 100% and just make up as I go along. And i try hard as fuck to get the dynamics to sound expressive but it still sounds flat. Been playing 15 years. Not sure I'll ever get any better at this rate.
Grayson Howard
This post makes no sense
Sebastian Fisher
Well the first thing that is wrong with it, where regards this contest of slow movement is that it doesn't qualify because there is no slow movement. I mean have you looked at the crazy assed names for the movements? Each one is both equally slow and fast.
Cooper Garcia
Clearly the second movement is the slow movement
Caleb Gomez
Clearly it isn't because there are fast parts and they are integrated throughout the entire structure
Carson Kelly
imagine listening to r*mantic composers and thinking you have good taste
This is a semantic difference between melancholia/lamentation and slow tempo. You can clearly see the sadness bursting through in the second movement even though it isn't exactly slow.
ok you worded that question a bit retardedly but here's Messiaen youtube.com/watch?v=0xXSoogzRP4 >The work's compositional bases are the Hindu rhythms often found in Messiaen's work. The composer's research into Hindu rhythms was based partly on the 120 rhythms listed in the thirteenth-century Sangita Ratnakara of Sarangadeva. The score includes names that are taken from this work, and also from Carnatic musical theory.
Caleb Baker
Im sitting in rehearsal for Tchaikovsky’s Eugene Onegin and I am very bored. Thanks for being entertaining Yea Forums
What the fuck does Gamelan have to do with Voiles tho?
Jeremiah Myers
Explain
Michael Sanders
maybe he's tired because it was the go-to "exotic" colour in music for almost a century? Here, here's mor Messiaen to counter my previous rec youtube.com/watch?v=bnMcor5Cyeo
Zachary Gonzalez
because kebab is bad
Gabriel Gutierrez
How so? Japanese scales are exceedingly rare even in the music of Japanese composers. I'm pretty sure you think the Chinese pentatonic (1,2, 4, 5, 6,1) is Japanese for some reason.
Easton Carter
dem whole-tone scales
Parker Barnes
Look up Japonisme in music, turdbrain; it's not my opnion, it's a historical fact.
>Shalva Mshvelidze - Samaia (Georgian Dance) That really did capture the spirit of traditional Georgian music rather well. Too bad the piece itself is so bland and boring. youtube.com/watch?v=oYh94BIyA_Y
Lincoln Richardson
>it's not on wikipedia; it never happened you're embarrasing
Debussy was looking for a certain sound that he described as "floaty" and found it in Gamelan. Voiles is a good example of that sound he was looking to create.
Juan Wood
No, you're embarrassing. Who the hell knocks wikipedia besides High School teachers who think its too easy a source for citations? You might as well have told me to look up Cubism in music or Art Deco in music. It doesn't fucking exist. Not every artistic movement concerns all disciplines, retard.
this but unironically. stravinsky was overrated though
Bentley Thompson
>Who the hell knocks wikipedia besides High School teachers who think its too easy a source for citations? Anyone in any professional setting of any form
Mason Martin
>Who the hell knocks wikipedia All I'm saying is that if it' your sole source of information you're as lazy as you're ignorant. Read a fucking book, go look up a documentary; I didn't make this shit up, it happened.
Joseph Rogers
Nigger you're a zoomer if you're actually unnironically defending wikipedia as a fine source. 3 years ago I edited an article of a DS game to say it came with a "collector's edition dildo" and that was left untouched until a few months ago
Dominic Smith
>No, you're embarrassing. you're the one who can't google m80
Carter Butler
well I'm afraid Gamelan music doesn't use whole tones. It uses various modes of a scale consisting of 1, b2 b3 5, b6. Even in Pagodes Debussy is using a more common widespread pentatonic scale that yes Gamelan uses but it is not unique to Gamelan. Here is real Gamelan-inspired classical.
>I'm afraid Gamelan music doesn't use whole tones you don't have to completely imitate something to be inspired by it
Cooper Harris
I know there is no fucking Japonism movement in music because I specifically looked up classical using Japanese scales. For fucks sake, just google things before you start shit-talking. I mean its like "oh hey I know a thing how can I shoehorn it into this conversation and get them sweet endorphins?" Fuck you.
Nigger I don't give a fuck about weebonism whatever I'm calling you a faggot because you said only stuck up professors think wikipedia's a bad source, when in fact anyone other than fucking zoomers too lazy to study from good sources for their high school projects does
Justin Morales
>Cubism in music but that does exist
Elijah Gonzalez
>3 years ago I edited an article of a DS game to say it came with a "collector's edition dildo"
Have sex
Connor Collins
be careful saying that phrase user
Xavier Cook
Well let not fucking OVERLOOK the fact that this all started with the question of tonality. This is irrespective of the attendant programmatic themes of the music or if they use that more common pentatonic scale (by virtue of it not being especially fucking Japanese).
Brayden Brown
>You might as well have told me to look up Cubism in music And you would have found three ballets by Satie
Gabriel Martin
It doesn't. There is some sense of it in music like Schoenberg and late Stravinsky but there was no official movement or anything that explicitly attempted to be a real analog to the procedures of Georges Braque or other cubists.
Justin Sanchez
>Well let not fucking OVERLOOK the fact that this all started with the question of tonality No, it started because of this >(as long as it isnt Japanese) >Why not Japanese? Fuck you. >maybe he's tired because it was the go-to "exotic" colour in music for almost a century
Stop goalpost moving, and learn to google, fucking brainlet dogshitbreath pencildick cunt
Wyatt Anderson
Are you really going to be such a piece of shit you'll deny that tonality is integral to the sound of music, particularly whether its exotic and what specific exotic cultures it evokes?
But there is nothing especially cubist about the music composed for the ballets.
Easton Bennett
>Are you really going to be such a piece of shit you'll deny that tonality is integral to the sound of music That's beyond my argument, dude. I never even once considered any of that and I don't see why you would assume that I did.
Christopher Perez
>Nothin after bach and nothing before Stravinsky So, no music at all, then?
Nathan Allen
>nothing especially cubist how can you say that
Luis Richardson
So you now cede that there was nothing about European music during the period where Japonism was extant, which would have made that music sound especially Japanese, and you think you are winning the argument? Hoo boy.
What is cubist about Satie's music; how does it represent multiple perspectives of a single unified object/entity? That's what cubism is. Its not just a bunch of weird shapes y'know.
>Learn inductive/deductive reasoning shithead. You've no idea how either could be applied in this situation, and you've applied neither. Keep failing horribly, frogposter. By the way: Japonism affected music. That's still a demonstrable fact.
Landon Sanchez
Is there any reason to listen to music that isn't Mozart?
I mean I haven't listened to it. But honestly I just doubt Satie had the musical capacity to execute such a thing. At any rate that still doesn't equate to a movement. Sorry going to have to use more inductive argumentation here even though I know you brainlets hate it.
So for instance had the conversation been about cubism in music instead of Japonism. Could we really say there was enough of this cubist music for someone to be burnt out on the entire idiom of cubist music because of how pervasive it was? I don't think 3 relatively obscure pieces by a single composer would even begin to scratch the itch.
You're just too stupid to follow the reasoning. Just because you like classical music doesn't make you a fucking mensa candidate. You're absolutely fucking retarded. Everyone else here can see the argument except you.
I wish, but you're battling ghosts that you imagine to be me instead of facing a very simple and real fact, going raving mad in the process same with but I'll just assume samefag
your google isn't going to fucking help you navigate the internal logic of an argument you're having on a Javanese Yodd Agora.
Joseph Taylor
>bach on piano disgusting
Thomas Perez
>internal logic >X thing happened >no it didn't! it's not on wikipedia! >but it did, google it That's as far as the logic goes, and it works in my favour. You could also read on french composers of the late XIXth/early XXth century and what influenced them, what they liked, the trends they followed, etc, instead of wasting time trying to Socrates your way out of being wrong, but that's you and your life and honestly I don't want any part in it. Too sad for my tastes.
Jason Mitchell
There's no fucking Japonism in music that is aurally meaningful. You're such a disingenuous cunt. Or maybe you really are this stupid. I dunno, would you rather be disingenuous or stupid? Its your call, fucko.
>that is aurally meaningful. oh look, suddenly this argument is to be measured by the rod of your opinions, instead of how it a)connects to the very origin of this argument and b)actually, really, demonstrably is a fact >I dunno, would you rather be disingenuous or stupid? could ask you the same question, shitgobbler
Adrian Ortiz
Bach would've liked it
Justin Ortiz
His argument makes perfect sense. You suggested that there could be an oversaturation of japanese-sounding music and you kept rolling back your position until you basically admitted there was nothing about the music that would have made it sound japanese. How are you still arguing?
And its not like I think he walks on water. This argument here is actually pretty shitty. I mean he said there was no cubism at all in music and he was proved wrong. So he's a hypocrticial piece of shit for doing the same shit you are but still.
Kayden Wilson
>His Not fooling anyone >until you basically admitted there was nothing about the music that would have made it sound japanese This bit right here never happened. I literally did not comment about this. My point remains: Japonism in music happened, and people got tired of it.
Jaxson Evans
Post some of this made up music you keep pretending exists or shove your point up your ass point-end preferably.
La Mer is also a remarkable example of Japonism btw
Jose Russell
Wow, that was fucking powerful.
David Jenkins
No it isn't. There isn't anything Japanese about La Mer in terms of its sound.
Justin Collins
ok
Zachary Thompson
>"The audience seemed rather disappointed: they expected the ocean, something big, something colossal, but they were served instead with some agitated water in a saucer."
David Rivera
Based Dapussy.
Charles Rivera
The audience are idiots, always.
>As a riot ensured, two factions in the audience attacked each other, then the orchestra, which kept playing under a hail of vegetables and other objects. Forty people were forcibly ejected.
>The reviews were merciless. "The work of a madman … sheer cacophony," wrote the composer Puccini. "A laborious and puerile barbarity," added Le Figaro's critic, Henri Quittard.
Liam Hernandez
not even the worst critisicm of la mer >"Last night's concert began with a lot of impressionistic daubs of color smeared higgledy-piggledy on a tonal palette, with never a thought of form or purpose except to create new combinations of sounds. … One thing only was certain, and that was that the composer's ocean was a frog-pond and that some of its denizens had got into the throat of every one of the brass instruments."
user, that's one piece, ffs. Granted maybe there is some Japanese sound in the first movement (hard to say because the Ryo scale has 9 fucking notes) and its not very explicit.
Connor Gutierrez
>that doesnt make it not funny of course not; retards are funny most of the time
Julian Barnes
>some of its denizens had got into the throat of every one of the brass instruments
Even in the 19th century, people were playing console wars with composers, namely Brahms and Schumann vs. Wagner and Liszt.
Xavier Perez
listened to this for kicks and it's acutally pretty fucking good, I wasn't expecting that
Carson Murphy
Why would you just assume a major composer would suck?
Zachary Howard
Based Glenn
David Martin
I didn't assume he sucked, I'm just not familiar with post-war music and often times it sounds too random to me, but I really enjoyed that. It was very strange in a good way but the structure and musical narrative were there and were very compelling.
Connor Phillips
>Why would you just assume a major composer would suck? Cage is a "major composer"
Joseph Jenkins
He's not a major composer, but he's a major ""composer"".
Adam Jones
(((composer)))
Jace Smith
Why would Wagner's stand be Black Sabbath. Should be [The Valkyrie]. It has the ability to slowly infect and kill anyone through contact as long as they're Jewish, but if they aren't it has the opposite effect and the user gets infected. He then has to pass it onto another Jew or else he's dead.
Gabriel Green
Puccini's such garbage jesus
Ryder Clark
come on, lad you know you love yerself some boipucci(ni)
Joseph White
>You've listened to me today, haven't you user? You need your daily dose.
I fucking did, I'm listening to all of your cantatas. Leave me alone now, your music is overwhelming.
Joshua Scott
Japonism in music happened
Jack Rodriguez
Bruh, not even tonal
Easton Kelly
>Who the hell knocks Wikipedia
Dude, Wikipedia is publishing misleading information all the time because it's edited by a bunch of far left faggots whos only qualifications are 1) too much time on their hands and 2) a god complex
Wikipedia has the worst mods of any website in history. They refuse to acknowledge that Cal Chuchesta is Anthony Fantano because he's never explicitly stated it publicly (because 1)it's completely obvious to anyone with half a brain and 2) it would ruin the joke). That's a level of insanity that I, for one, am not comfortable with. Like, really think about that for a second. Do they not have object perminance? If someone puts on a different shirt do they think it's a different person? And we allow these people to be the arbiters of truth on the internet. Disgusting.
Aaron Butler
>Wikipedia has the worst mods of any website in history mind where you are, boy
Xavier Wilson
That’s the best period. The Russian and the Serial Periods were simply affectations. Stravinsky was a neoclassical composer at heart. I have no doubt.
Jayden Bennett
His three ballets and one tone poem 1910-1917 are his best works, though
Gavin Thomas
schuberts 8th (unfinished) ravels gaspard de la nuit, le gibet shostakovichs 15th string quartet
Jackson Hughes
Not even remotely. Symphony in C, Apollo Musagetes, Symphony of Psalms, Violin Concerto in D, the list goes on.
Eli Williams
Nah, it's a fact that those eary works were his best
Grayson Nguyen
Not remotely a fact. Stravinsky’s neoclassical period represents a much purer, much more streamlined vision of music than his earlier works. It’s this period that has the real potential for permanence. Even most composers that cite Stravinsky as an influence today draw mostly from his neoclassical period.
