Where did the idea originally come from about led zeppelin being a shit band...

Where did the idea originally come from about led zeppelin being a shit band? I see it commonly talked about as an opinion held by music snobs, and I've seen it multiple places, in the same way that I've seen "disco sucks", so I'm wondering where it came from that it became so widespread. I mean, obviously they went on to be popular and respected, so why were they panned so widely, and do they continue to be in some corners?

t. listened to III, IV, and Houses of the Holy and don't understand the disdain

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Now by popular demand! A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

I'm surprised you just have a list like that handy.

a) Led Zeppelin were plagiarists par excellance yet for a great part of the 20th century fans and music critics were fawning all over them anyway as if they were geniuses.
b) Led Zeppelin created the hard rockstar formula that would go on to completely saturate rock music in the 1980s. All the 80s hair metal is massively indebted to Led Zeppelin and that music has aged horribly, so even the bands that are merely influenced by Led Zeppelin have been retroactively panned.
c) They also fully took advantage of having legions of adoring groupies and that's a big nono for rockstars in the #metoo era.

In short it's because Led Zeppelin are everything people who hate dadrock hate about dadrock concentrated into one band so it's not cool to like them anymore.

Really despite Led Zeppelin being massively overrated historically the 21st century backlash to this is just as much of an overreaction. Really they're a pretty cool band and even if a great majority of the praise they got is completely undeserved they still made some good quality albums. If you like Led Zeppelin don't let the hipsters stop you.

Honestly as an aspiring music snob with a 1k~ albums listened so far the only reason I dislike Led Zeppelin is because I don't like their music. I've only listened to IV and found it super boring, not liking one song. And, as always, if you don't fuck with the music it's easy to find things to criticize. The use of "baby" is fucking annoying. Compared to modern rock and metal, their "hard rock" sounds soft and slow as fuck, yet not detailed enough to be interesting at that. I despise the overdone vocals on "Stairway to heaven". The whole rockstar persona is just hard to buy into in 2019, it simply became lame. Even the cover art is ugly. I could go on, but I guess you get the idea.
First comes the enjoyment of music. If it isn't there, criticism is easy.

hmm, I see. I never heard about the modern-era backlash, I remember hearing scorn for them well before the mid-late 2010's. The plagiarist part is pretty scummy, so it certainly tempers my appreciation, but overall I can't say I really dislike them.

>self-described as an aspiring music snob

I appreciate your input, but at the same time, that's a very faggy thing to say. It makes you sound like you're the kind of person that no one wants to invite to parties.

Learn the difference between theft and homage, please.

Led Zeppelin is the pleb filter that is used when all other pleb filters fail. Because they are so widely respected and acclaimed, it is easy for a contrarian to dislike them without listening to their music. Because they are so excellent, you can spot a contrarian by asking them if they like Led Zeppelin. If they do not like Led Zeppelin, they have not listened to Led Zeppelin III, IV or Physical Graffiti and are therefore a hipster. Yea Forums does not like the band as they are some of the biggest contrarian hipsters on the internet.

As for the whole "they are assholes" thing, I'd be more surprised to hear that a 70s rockstar wasn't an asshole.
Don't (You) me, plebs.

Yeah out of court settlements always come from “homage.”

cool, glad i'm not the only one who dislikes led zeppelin

extremely baste

I mean really, what 20-something man wouldn't take advantage of having tons of women that want to bang you? Maybe if you're a slack-jawed faggot you wouldn't, but normal guys, or especially a sexual tyrannosaurus like myself, would obviously partake.

>jimmy page is a pseudo-talented guitarist and simply wanks off the same typical two-string riff in every song
>john bonham is an indulgent cunt of a drummer
>bassist doesn't even need to exist
>robert plant's voice is jarring and repetitive
There you go. I just find them the ultimatum of irritating glam metal and buttrock. Every song sounds the fucking same, for some reason people are deluded enough to believe they had talent and apparently are the best band ever

I've never considered them a shit band, but I do consider them a singles band.
Never enjoyed an actual album by them front to back and honestly a greatest hits CD is all you need.

bitter metalfags who are still mad that "Ozzy didn't get enough recognition"

>aspiring music snob
>faggy thing to say

>what is self-depricating irony

>pleb filter
>hipster
>buzzword
>buzzword

Yep, I guess those are indeed the type of people to like Led Zeppelin. Thank you guys I'll pass.

The people who push the "Led Zeppelin are thieves" meme are the same people who rate Kanye albums 10/10

all 4 members of Sabbath were necessary and it's why their first 5 albums are still their best (and the best in the genre)
Anything after was just cheap imitation or sellout bullshit, aside from The Devil You Know which was actually really good.

>using irony unironically in 2019
I don't feel that your case is being helped here

In the end I don't give a flying fuck if they were assholes or thieves or anything else. I sat down, I listened to their music, than I did it again, than did it the 3rd time, and came out bored to death each time. And that's it.

Huh. Funny because I haven’t listened to a Kanye album past Late Registration. But whatever floats your plagiarism boat...

It never fails to amuse me how many people on Yea Forums get enraged over plagiarism when a band takes an old blues guitar riff and then writes a new song based on that riff.

But then someone literally taking a clip from someone else’s recording and slowing it down and adding a slightly different beat is genius “sampling”

For the record I used to like both Led Zeppelin and hip hop/sampling a lot when I was a teenager. I just can’t help but think it’s funny.

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any band whose best album is a greatest hits collection is just an inconsistent bad band.

Plagiarism or not they did record some of the most memorable and kickass rock songs of all time. But they also recorded a bunch of awful boring shitty filler. They do not have a single good album aside from the aforementioned Mothership. And again, not an album, a greatest hits collection.

>what is self-depricating irony
Fucking annoying is what it is. Just be real for two fucking seconds you retard-- because it's just flat out self-deprecation. You assume a great deal to the opinion of yourself when people think it's irony because for it to be irony: they have to assume the inverse about you already. In this case, I think you are unironically a retard.

I don’t think anyone’s enraged there pimp sticks. OP asked why Led Zep were disliked around here and I gave him one of the reasons.

Greta Van Fleet sucks so hard they even make people hate anything that inspired them

oh god just don't read those words if you get triggered so easily you faggots, my opinion after them is completely sincere

why should I even give your post the time of day when you're just going to be inauthentic at arbitrary points within it? Do you actually have real opinions that you can stan behind as the problem with what you said, it effectively nullifies everything you say after it. It's not just, 'skip that part', it tempers the entire reading.

Otherwise fuck you and grow a spine when you talk about your opinion.

It's way too easy to criticise those who are considered legends. Most people who hate them seem to be contrarians. And as to the whole plagiarism skiffle, that's just a load of horseshit. Everyone in the industry was rewriting and covering each others songs back then.

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" This shares similar lyrics but page completely changed the song and turned it into a flamenco rock song.

"Black Mountain Side" You have to be totally fucking naive to credit that to Bert Jansch's Blackwaterside since the song itself is a traditional piece.

"Bring it on home" Yes this is a straight cover, but in between it is an original turn on the song.

"Communication Breakdown" If you want to criticise that for being stolen at least be right. It sounds more like Livin Loving maid (which was a filler song written for the album)

"Dazed and Confused" Yes that is very shady to do a cover like that but he did make it his own, it wasn't a carbon copy. Also why shouldn't the Yardbirds get any flak as well? They played it too and as far as I'm aware they didn't credit Holmes.

"Hat's off to Roy Harper" yeah. yep, not really arguing with that one.

"How Many More Times" Again, I keep repeating myself but yada yada made it their own song by rewriting.... not a carbon copy.

"In My Time of Dying" another traditional piece that Bob Dylan didn't even write. Their two versions are completely different (and I love them both)

"Since I've Been Loving you" Yeah ok that seems seedy.

"Stairway to Heaven" From a music writing perspective, Taurus were being a bunch of losers. A chromatic chord progression is very common, Taurus weren't the first to use it and they aren't the last.

"White Summer" Yeah most definitely a case of Page trying to be sneaky.

"Whole Lotta Love" These share lyrics, and not the famous riff that Zeppelin wrote, of which the song is known for.

So take what you want from what I said, but just know that I'm a big LZ fan so I'm very biased ;)

holy shit you're retarded!

Sorry, but you are the only person who sounds triggered. If you want to be a fag, then just be a fag. Don't bother covering it up with fancy labels or, god help us, with "irony", aka the once-wired, now-expired way for "so deep off the beaten path" kids to try and be funny. It is not cool or likeable anymore, so I suggest that you stop doing it, especially as an "aspiring music snob". But then, anyone who labels themselves as having a higher opinion on music is likely just as much of a follower as someone who listens to top 40s radio, except they delude themselves into thinking they are better, which if anything is even worse. I hope you think on these words and improve yourself, rather than rejecting them and retreating into yourself.

>brainlet rationalizing his inability to comprehend sarcasm
There, there. Easy, buddy. Human words can be very hard to understand. You'll get there you cute stuffed animal you.

>Do you actually have real opinions that you can stan behind as the problem with what you said, it effectively nullifies everything you say after it.
Where are you from tho? I read that like 4 times and can not understand what do you mean.

No, I understand sarcasm, I just think people often use it incorrectly and like faggots. You literally prompted your entire statement as you, being the person speaking on this subject prompt the reader to understand that you are a 'music snob with....'-- in turn telling us, the reader, that this is the opinion of a music snob.
>shit comprehension
>lacks the empathy in which to do so most likely
> Likely cannot interface with the world outside of detached irony
wew lad here stands a last man

My god are you pretentious.

I don't think you were being as ironic as you think.

gee I wonder why!

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>And as to the whole plagiarism skiffle, that's just a load of horseshit. Everyone in the industry was rewriting and covering each others songs back then.
Except they were usually credited as such

LZ just lied and said they wrote it when they didn't

to all of you crying about plagiarizing, how many songs of theirs' have you listened to, and if you have ever paid for listening to them?

i know most just stream youtube for free.

>how many songs of theirs' have you listened to
All of their albums except Coda and Presence
>and if you have ever paid for listening to them?
I owned the first four albums on CD when i was in high school

What does this have to do with plagiarism? Is this misdirection?

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We can agree that physical graffiti was their last good album, right?

*deafening drumming intensifies*
*BABYBABYBABYBABYBABY*
*coke-driven super sloppy solo*
*tedious 20-minute live jam*
*great but totally out of place keyboards*
*butchered blues number*
*singer messes up vocal chords*
Truly, the band of the century.

it's hypocritical, you all pirate everything possible

>you all
Yea Forums isn't one person you dummy. I just told you I used to own four of their albums.

Also
>don't pirate the music of plagiarists!
Isn't that called karma?

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yep, our old millionaire boys need your money to hook up with 13 yo's and get some coke

>For the record I used to like both Led Zeppelin and hip hop/sampling a lot when I was a teenager.
Double the pleb!

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before mp3 in the early shellac days of records, all the blues players played each others music all the time. some even had the same stage name, they didn't care.
who did care?

their poor descendants

>all the blues players played each others music all the time
Oh, were the lads in Led Zeppelin all poor black Americans from rural areas?

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lames will lame

So who exactly are you supposed to credit when you cover an ancient song with no author? Just goes to show how silly copyright laws are to begin with.

are you one of the descendants?

why so much but hurt over a band that hasn't even been together since probably before you were even born?
no one buys anything anymore, just be honest with yourself.
it helps to look in the mirror closely and observe your emotional state when making posts, you seem very maniacal.

I stand corrected. There are large amounts of enraged itt.

well, as in the Jansch version, crediting "Traditional" would make sense, then say whose arrangement you did as well.

You don't know much about this, do you?
>are you one of the descendants?
How is that relevant?

Also
>you're so buttmad!!
Ah, out of arguments I see. Stop posting any time.

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>Stop posting any time.
i asked you honest questions you post fucking images

>i asked you honest questions
Which ones? Are you looking for honest answers?

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did you make these images?

First week on Yea Forums?

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t. Someone whos never listened to Zep

Everything on IV aside from Four Sticks is great. Youre a retard

>them the ultimatum of
what?

>first 5 albums not first 6
>thinking Dio albums are bad
>thinking Martin albums are bad

>Robert Plant is probably the greatest rock vocalist of all time
>Jimmy Page is one of the greatest rock guitarists of all time with the greatest body of riffs other than maybe Keith Richards
>John Paul Jones is the greatest rock bassist of all time
>John Bonham is the greatest rock drummer of all time
>their first six albums are god tier despite some filler here and there
>the majority of their plagiarism is stealing some blues lyrics and traditional arrangements that don’t have authors. Crediting themselves as the author is an asshole things to do but they changed the music so much it really doesn’t detract from the band’s actual musical merit
>influenced all hard rock to come afterwards, even still today
>incredibly versatile musicians able to write and play a wide variety of songs and styles, not just energetic blues rock
>one of the best rock bands at live improvisation, they didn’t just play white noise over one chord like the Velvet Underground
>widely considered to be one of the greatest and most influential bands of all time by fans and critics

Honestly the only people that dislike them are contrarian virgins who wish they could have had bdsm sex with 13 year olds like Jimmy Page

>bad things are justified because I like them
No

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Originally they were seen as an overblown "supergroup" and were not very tasteful. For example, Rolling Stone magazine shat on their early albums before they became the biggest band in the world in the 70s.

Now people will shit on them for being the quintessential "Hard Rawk" band and simply being overrated and overplayed. Also the whole plagiarism thing makes it even easier to hate on them.

I never said it was morally justified, I'm saying that doing morally wrong things doesn't detract from their merit as a band

>lack of artistic credibility and honesty doesn't detract from art

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>John Paul Jones is the greatest rock bassist of all time
Hol up

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JPJ runs circles around McCartney

Is pointless wankery really "running circles"?

He doesn't though.

If you actually listen to the songs Led Zeppelin "stole," the vast majority of them are drastically changed to the point where they are either god-tier covers or virtually entirely new compositions. Other artists do cover versions which are widely praised, and it doesn't detract whatsoever from how they are viewed as musicians, so why should it be different with Led Zeppelin? Saying Zeppelin is a worse band because they stole some of the lyrics in Whole Lotta Love is like saying the Stones are a bad band for doing Love in Vain on one of their albums

Not even close

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>The drums are louder and the guitars are electrified
>see how different it is!
I take it you are not a musician?
>entirely new compositions
Not how compositions work
>Other artists do cover versions which are widely praised,
Except, those artists are doing *cover* versions, where the composition is credited to the original author. The difference here is that LZ did "cover versions" and did not credit anyone but themselves.
>hey stole some of the lyrics in Whole Lotta Love
Listen to the original. Similar melody, structure, lyric and riff.
>Stones are a bad band for doing Love in Vain on one of their albums
Who did they credit it too? Should we look it up??

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>as an aspiring music snob
Imagine ever labeling yourself this.

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I take it you listen to their music so selectively to try and prove your point

>Honestly as an aspiring music snob with a 1k~ albums listened so far
Not really important as compared to how many times you listened to each album (if it was only once, your opinion is irrelevant)
>I've only listened to IV and found it super boring, not liking one song
The second problem here is listening to an album to see if you "like" it, while also claiming to be a music snob. Not how music criticism works. Embarrassing really.

What do you mean? You are either artistically honest or you aren't.

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>The drums are louder and the guitars are electrified
Please explain to me how Dazed and Confused or In My Time Of Dying is just increasing the volume of drums and guitar
>Except, those artists are doing *cover* versions, where the composition is credited to the original author. The difference here is that LZ did "cover versions" and did not credit anyone but themselves.
You still don't understand what I'm saying. Doing morally bad things doesn't mean their music is any worse or they are less talented as a band

>Please explain to me how Dazed and Confused or In My Time Of Dying is just increasing the volume of drums and guitar
But it's your argument, not mine...
>You still don't understand what I'm saying.
No, I completely understand you don't know what a "cover version" is.
>Doing morally bad things doesn't mean their music is any worse or they are less talented as a band
Unless it specifically has to do with their music craft and integrity. Did you read the thread?

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>Unless it specifically has to do with their music craft and integrity
are you actually retarded? how does taking credit for a song you didn't fully write make you less talented, or the song less good?

the fact jimy page stole music from nigres and had sex with 14 yos only makes him based
also yardbirds were better

>how does taking credit for a song you didn't fully write make you less talented
>a song you didn't fully write
Looks like you found your answer

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But how does it make the song bad? Nevermind how it was made.

Make a judgement on the song itself

>But how does it make the song bad?
>what is artistic credibility

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You're not answering the question.

>Nevermind how it was made.
Also, incorrect way to judge art

You don't get a card for that.

Of course I did

ikr i hear so much music and i'm like where's the credibility i cant listen to this crap!!!

Yes, I too can instantly recognise an artists lack of credibility just by listening to the sound waves

right?
the other day at a jam the singer goes 12 bar in g quick change, and i baka

The only place where I know LZ is considered a "shit band" is on Yea Forums -- the place where EVERY band is hated by someone. I don't "love" Led Zep, but I do have all their albums and am familiar with all their material. They are the quintessential blues-rock band. If you don't like blues-rock, you'll probably not like Zep.

As for the haters, Taylor Swift put it best: "People throw rocks at things that shine."

>Here let me quote Taylor Swift to make a point
I mean if you gotta continue the standard of rich white people making millions off of black music and then crediting themselves...

Maybe the black people should have done it better, they'd be rich too

>implying artists like the Beatles, Stones and Zeppelin making blues music didn't lead to many of the old bluesmen getting the recognition they deserved from the masses

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>has to turn Led Zep discussion into a lecture on racism

Hmm... Chuck Berry ripped off white country & bluegrass artists, and his first 2 or 3 albums had Latino themed songs on them (Havana Moon, La Juanda, and Hey Pedro). Living Color (the band) totally ripped off a white sound. Tracy Chapman ripped off Dylan, Baez, and a bunch of other white folkies.

You're going down a treacherous road when you make the argument that certain kinds of music "belong to" certain races.

Which leads perfectly into the point that once you release art, anyone is allowed to listen to it, create covers of it, or play it themselves with their own instruments.

>when I wanted to play rock and jazz music but learned that it is only morally right for me to play mennonite folk songs, since that's the music of my ancestors

This lad gets it

>, create covers of it
Ooops, again you don't seem to understand what a cover version is! Yikes!
>Chuck Berry ripped off white country & bluegrass artists
Such as?

>Ooops, again you don't seem to understand what a cover version is! Yikes!

A cover can be as simple as it being the same song being played by different people

It is more complex than that but I don't doubt you think it's that simple.

Led Zepellin is just a poor mans cheap amalgamation of other better contemporaneous bands such as The Who, Black Sabbath and The Cream.

can you rec some ethical artist pref some that are involved with climate and or greenpeace. every one i listen doesn't even pay reparations

Just read this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_version

What makes it so complex then?

Ooops you meant to quote Sorry about that!

Oh have you not studied copyright law?

Cover means you are acknowledging the original artist.

Was it illegal for Jimi Hendrix to play All Along the Watchtower? No it wasn't because it was a cover.

discount the Who

here.
I really don’t have a major problem with LZ and I do love Blues Rock. I like say Thin Lizzy better. My issue with LZ is how they took other people’s music and flat out took credit for it. Page started doing that in the Yardbirds and flat out took off with it in Led Zeppelin. It degrades their legacy and leaves one with a bad taste in one’s mouth. Even the frickin’ Beatles gave credit when they used other people’s music. And Led Zep were talented musicians. Physical Graffiti was all them and it’s a great double album. Kashmir wasn’t stolen and it’s an absolutely magical song.

Watching their smug faces when they won Kennedy Center honors for music they basically stole pushed me over the edge with them. It’s dirty, cheap and lazy.

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How about Voodoo Chile? Hendrix's cover of a muddy waters song with "louder drums and electric guitar". The song has no credit to Muddy Waters

I suppose he has no credibility as an artist now too?

"Voodoo Chile" is a song written by Jimi Hendrix and recorded in 1968 for the third Jimi Hendrix Experience album Electric Ladyland. It is based on the Muddy Waters blues song "Rollin' Stone", but with original lyrics and music.

Not really a cover now, is it?

I'd say it is when you use the same lyrics and song structure

>Cover means you are acknowledging the original artist.
...Which is not what LZ did.
>but with original lyrics and music
Then it's not a cover is it?

>but with original lyrics and music

Are you alright? Do we need to call someone?

>"Black Mountain Side" You have to be totally fucking naive to credit that to Bert Jansch's Blackwaterside since the song itself is a traditional piece.

Opinion completely fucking discredited. Yes it's a traditional but Bert's guitar arrangement group was completely original. Black mountainside is literally just the exact same guitar arrangement without the vocals and entirely uncredited to either Bert or the song's traditional origins. Jimmy literally was taught Bert's guitar part from a friend and then decided to claim it as his own. I'm not even one to really harp about plagiarism when it comes to music but that instance was just straight up bad faith theft.

>"Stairway to Heaven" From a music writing perspective, Taurus were being a bunch of losers. A chromatic chord progression is very common, Taurus weren't the first to use it and they aren't the last.


wow. you're a complete fucking retard and don't know a fucking thing about "Taurus" because that was the name of the SONG. not the band.

Yep.

It's an objective fact that their Brit "covers" were 10 times better than the American originals tho

>I like it more so that means it's better!
Not how it works

>John Bonham is the greatest rock drummer of all time
Are you sure about that?

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Based brufordposter

I'll never understand why LZ was do big when the majority of their contemporaries were all better than them. Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, Rolling Stones, CAN.

LZ for me is just a really bad joke people took seriously.

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Rolling Stones is the only band you mentioned that’s better than Zeppelin

If you think Led Zeppelin is better than Black Sabbath you have an awful taste a should fuck off.