Which boss was harder?

Twin Infinitives by far

this, you people are weird

just drone scaruffi at this point ffs

i liked twin infinitives on first listen, but i also had three more years of music under my belt than when i first heard (and was put off by) tmr. still TI strikes me as less accessible
>wah art shouldn't challenge me wah!!

it's not improv but there's no concrete structure either. and yet it's ALL composed. impressive enough

maybe if you're a dumb masochist

Have you listened to the other albums by them?

>letting an italian manlet dictate your taste

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if you don't get tired of formula and repeated structure you're not engaging with this wonderful art form very seriously

yeah I can see that but I just dont like it, call me a pleb or whatever but I just cant enjoy it, at least TMR has songs like moonlight on vermont and veterans day poppy, I can apprieciate for what it is but still

you're right nobody would know about those albums if not for him

it's one thing to recognize that it's a challenging record, it's another thing to say it's 'difficult.' most of the music i like now i didn't like once, and i love trout mask replica more than most things. challenging, requiring multiple listens, fine. but it's not 'hard' to sit through an album that is fundamentally interesting, even if it doesn't fully click on the first try. unless somebody else puts on some shit that you hate and forces you to listen to it even though you had no say in the matter, but that's totally different.

imagine a world where people actually enjoy TMR and other challenging albums without pretending they've accomplished something by listening to it

I do get tired of formula, I can listen to pretty much any genre and enjoy a lot of its albums. However I don't force myself to "like" albums just to get cred on Yea Forums.

TMR was one of the most critically lauded albums of the 60s well before scruffy ever wrote reviews. when it came out, normies actually listened to avant garde shit

They’re both great albums, and really not all that inaccessible. But both have better like RT’s debut and Safe as Milk. Listen to some shit like this for actually impenetrable music

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well, there's forcing yourself (which is a bad way to approach it), but i'm sure you've heard one or two albums that didn't resonate or even sounded terrible at first, but after further exploring other music and broadening your taste, you revisited them and found a new appreciation for them

This exists, but only outside of Yea Forums and all other websites.

this is a weird form of projection
not asking you to, and neither do i. your original post would imply that music can't/shouldn't be challenging and if you really can enjoy albums from "pretty much any genre" i think you should know that's just not true

i know, i am definitely in that world, i was pointing out the bad logic in 'doesn't think it's 'hard' -> must only listen to formula garbage'

I get that definitely and I'm basically with you on that. I love Trilobite, one of my favorite 90s songs for sure, but the rest is really like just demanding in a weird way.

that's not the logic that was proposed unless you're being excessively semantic about the usage of "hard". albums that break the mold of what one is used to in music (especially as music is presented to all of us as this commodified 2-4 minute song on the radio) would naturally challenge the listener...you're really telling me every avant-garde piece of music you have heard just naturally sounded excellent the first time? some savant you are!

and they said i was the one concerned about my image on a taiwanese breadmaking forum...

yeah there has been albums like that for me, but I don't think them being "hard" would be the right term

Twin Infinitives def

hey dude
haven't seen your rankings for this year so far, care to post them? don't mind if you derail this thread

it's more that, challenging music isn't really a question of forcing yourself to listen to shit over and over again. it shouldn't be "hard" to engage with it, it's just a matter of perspective. what sounds jarring the first time is usually due to a lack of exposure to the sound in question. you can always come back and listen to it another time when you've broadened your understanding of what it actually is, or revisit it every now and again and let it click gradually. But as it happens, i did quite enjoy TMR the first time (even if i didn't fully get what was good about it then), but i don't think that's that odd. It just seemed to me like you jumped from one extreme of the spectrum to the other, that's all.

>"t-those aren't inaccessible!!"
>prefers the inferior more accessible albums
that's an easy filter

then i think we're on the same page. when i say i am put off by an album in the way that i was tmr it's more in the sense that there's some kind of forbidden fruit in it, like a quality that seems alluring but is shrouded by my unfamiliarity or what have you - so it's not about listening to an album i hate over and over, but digging up that nugget from it. i'm using "hard" just to conform to this board's jargon

i get that, i'm that way with lots of stuff as well. i just find that the term 'hard' gives off the wrong impression for those who are unfamiliar with the thing. yeah it's the board's jargon, but it seems like that's exactly the reason there are so many elitist dudes around here who claim that some genre or other 'isn't even music' because they heard one album they didn't like and tried to compare it to bach or beethoven and just completely missed the point that avant-garde music is usually meant to be non-traditional, for the sake of deconstructing or exploring the boundaries of one's personal definition of 'music' or 'art' or whatever

meant to reply to

Just because scaruffi likes it doesn't mean it's good, TMR is good, Twin Infinitives is actual legit garbage

They are both good, you just found Twin Infinitive too hard (to be fair it is a lot more challenging)

Probably Twin Infinitives. May depend mostly on the listener's temperament. Though I think if you took some random casual on street they'd probably think TMR is quirky and silly but would see Twin Infinitives as a disgusting and truly unalienable smorgasbord.

I am not the person you are replying to, but I like your way of putting it. I was introduced to TMR and told to just listen to it, and eventually it would sound great. The idea that listening to music is "hard" in the grand scheme of things is a bit ridiculous, especially when you're choosing to listen to it.

Not to mention TMR has songs like Moonlight on Vermont that you could introduce to someone who is completely unfamiliar to more experimental music and they will enjoy it after 2-3 listens.

I would say music that is hard to listen to sounds more like Portal where the music is experimental and also very unpleasant.

>unalienable
*unlistenable

I think there's a deep psychological aspect to the the difficult which people find in appreciating TMR. They already go in expecting it to be this super experimental abrasive album, and that no doubt affects their judgment of it. It's honestly just a quirky blues rock album with some cool riffs

i imagined this kind of thing and it made me giggle:

>lemme check out this album, i hear it's super difficult and hard to 'get', I bet it's got some incredibly complex compositions
>A SQUID EATING DOUGH IN A POLYETHYLENE BAG IS FAST AND BULBOUS, GOT ME??

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You're like a little baby, watch this.

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now THIS is the hardest thing i've ever had the misfortune of sitting through

Is it weird that i didn't think tmr was bad? I thought it was weird and unique, but not bad. In fact, i quite enjoyed it.

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how new are you?

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only a rock novice would dislike based TMR

meme

twin infinitives is scaruffi-core nonsense, TMR is great tho

In a few decades Twin Infinitives will be looked back upon similarly to how TMR is regarded now.

TMR is a masterpiece for ages, twin infinitives is like a shit floating in your water closet

trux

the only people who think it's bad either have no souls or are just too up their own ass to listen to something out of their comfort zone without a thick layer of bias before even pressing play

Twin Infinitives is fucking dense. I still don't get what's so great. I got Trout Mask on the first listen.

twin infinitives
trout mask replica is wacky but it's outright accessible, if really weird, at some points. twin infinitives is an inch away from not even being rock music and just being noise.

Yikes, user. Twin Infinitives isn't hard at all and Trout Mask Replica is fun.

have sex

Listening to TMR isn't challenging.

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Have sex

>more abrasive than Death Grips
>more experimental than Radiohead
>more demented than Captain Beefheart

I think we can all agree that this is the final boss of music.

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OMG lol what a fail ..... that's all " "pleb" shit......... you suck newfag newfag get out of Yea Forums!

TMR, but only bc I listened to it several years before TI. TI was an instant click

based

He was being sarcastic

But is it more abrasive than Twin Infinitives?

Zappa

>TI was an instant click
that just means it hasn't clicked yet

I grew up listening to Zappa and Beefheart types and TMR has been one of my favorite albums since first listen. I remember reading about Royal Trux in alternative press back in the day so I checked it out and it took a while before I started to see what was good about it.

i think this is WAAAAAYYY easier to listen to than TMR or TI, I really like the general sound of Lullaby Land. To me it sounds like if you were back in the 90s and were alone in a dark living room at 12:35am with just an old CRT keeping you company watching late night reruns of 50s era shows paired with infomercials for products you would never use.

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8.9)Weyes Blood- Titanic Rising
(8.7)Billy Woods & Kenny Segal- Hiding Places
(8.6)Onoe Caponoe- Surf or Die
(8.2)Quelle Chris- Guns
(8.1)Yugen Blakrok- Anima Mysterium
(8)The Comet Is Coming- Trust in the Lifeforce of the Deep Mystery
(7.8)Ithaca- The Language of Injury
(7.8)Priests- The Seduction of Kansas
(7.6)La Dispute- Panorama
(7.6)Goldgazer- Wonder Valley
(7.5)Czarface & Ghostface Killah- Czarface Meets Ghostface
(7.4)Sharon Van Etten- Remind Me Tomorrow
(7.4)These New Puritans- Inside The Rose
(7.4)The Caretaker- Everywhere at the End of Time - Stage 6
(7.3)Nuvolascura- Nuvolascura
(7.2)Little Simz- Grey Area
(7.2)Bruiser & Bicycle- Woods Come Find Me
(7.2)Show Me The Body- Dog Whistle
(7.1)Foals- Everything Not Saved Will Be Lost Part 1
(7.1)Boogie- Everything’s For Sale
(7)The Twilight Sad- It Won/t Be Like This All the Time
(7)Anderson .Paak- Ventura
(6.9)Malibu Ken- Malibu Ken
(6.9)Waste of Space Orchestra- Syntheosis
(6.9)Traveler- Traveler
(6.8)PUP- Morbid Stuff
(6.8)Ladytron- Ladytron
(6.7)Molly Tuttle- When You’re Ready
(6.6)Better Community Oblivion Center- Better Community Oblivion Center
(6.5)ROME- Le ceneri di Heliodoro
(6.4)Elizabeth Colour Wheel- Nocebo
(6.3)Deerhunter- Why Hasn’t Everything Already Disappeared?
(6.3)forests- Spending an Eternity in a Japanese Convenience Store
(6.2)A Swarm of the Sun- The Woods
(6.1)Sigrid- Sucker Punch
(6.1)Clear Soul Forces- Still
(6)Xiu Xiu- Girl With Basket Of Fruit
(5.9)Pond- Tasmania
(5.9)American Football- LP3
(5.9)Demon Hunter- Peace
(5.9)Say Anything- Oliver Appropriate
(5.8)Girlpool- What Chaos Is Imaginary
(5.6)Solange- When I Get Home
(5.5)Weezer- Teal Album
(5.5)Soilwork- Verkligheten
(5.3)Stella Donnelly- Beware of the Dogs
(5.2)Tori y Moi- Outer Peace
(5.1)James Blake- Assume Form
(4.9)Lomelda- M for Empathy
(4.7)2 Chainz- Rap or Go to the League
(4.2)Weezer- Black Album
(4.1)Jessica Pratt- Quiet Signs
(3.9)Future- Future Hendrxx Presents: THE WIZRD

you have the most generic Yea Forumscore taste possible except for billy woods I guess, just drop trip honestly

filtered

(3.5)Sean Price & Small Professor- 86 Witness
(3.4)Ariana Grande- Thank U, Next
(2.5)Billie Eilish- When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?
(.9)Darkwater- Human

There you go buddy
I fuckin hate the album I posted and Twin Infinitives and TMR are great. I’m just saying they aren’t all that inaccessible compared to other stuff
Nice
Pls don’t meme this album it’s a fantastic record
I could probably post only Kazakh modern classical an take shit from Yea Forumstants for having shit taste because I have a trip. It’s cool, I’m not bothered by it

link rym

this isn’t even zach’s most inaccessible album. That’s Church Gone Wild. There’s some pop songs on Astrological Straits

you consider some p4k flavor of the month your favorite album of the year, but honestly that doesn't really even matter in comparison to you thinking yugen blakrok is not some of the worst shit ever created (it's the hip hop version of some awful neo-prog degeneracy) or even bothering to check out anti-music like weezer. onoe caponoe is probably good but I haven't listened to it yet, otherwise you posting under a name here is pointless. seriously, have some decency and drop that trip

rateyourmusic.com/~HotOpinions
I don’t give a shit if p4k liked it, I don’t even go to that shithole so I wouldn’t know, though it doesn’t surprise me. I don’t care who likes it other than me, all I care about are those beautiful vocals, that great production, and the brilliant catchy songwriting. That would mean letting you win so nah I’ll keep it on.
>anti-music like Weezer

Oh so you’re one of “those” annoying people. Gotcha. Definitely check out Onoe though, great UK hip hop project

>p4k likes it so I can’t

This is worse than droning

Best album ever, doesn't stop sounding like shit, even after 30+ listens! Huh?

it's pretty good :)

sure
Radiohead is hardly experimental so sure I guess?
no
This is coming from someone who likes the album

it's a meme you dip

MY SMILE IS STUCK

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TMR cured my depression. I still have to listen to TI

nobody actually likes these albums unless they're trying to be cool

Nobody actually has this opinion unless they’re a brainlet.

yikes

87241971
You people try to reason with these albums.Almost like having an intellectual conversation with them,but you cant,and you cant do this and will never find success doing this because these albums are not trying to wrap themselves up around your brain and intellectuality whatsoever,they speak on a completely emotional level,you are not supposed to understand them with your head,in fact,youre supposed to let your head fall off your shoulders and kick it around.

When Beefheart yells and rants about some shit you dont understand while instruments play in a way that doesnt inmediately sound good to your ears,then stop thinking about it and get tribal,same goes with Royal Trux and Vahnke,youre not supposed to fellate your self-perceived intellect,youre supposed to kill it,to fuck your ego-based notions in the ass and dance on it,so get tribal,follow the beat and dance to it,yell together with the dead body but undying sound.Any stupid fuck sub 50IQ can understand these albums because anyone with emotions can do it as long as they let go of their brains and what they believe they are.Go masturbate furiously because it feels cool to cum

holy shit I messed up this post so bad

TMR not even boss material, just takes 2 listens before you know the grooves then on the 3rd listen its mostly bangers throughout. But i usualky skip dachau blues and dust blows forward now

I don't even like safe as milk better and never understood this opinion. Are you just trying to sound less contrarian? TMR is better and thats okay.

I mean they are completely different albums so you can't really compare the two, but yeah I prefer Safe as Milk genuinely(and I like both a lot). Safe as Milk is just a fantastic blend of blues and rock. It no doubt had a big impact on Tom Waits's music, especially that gritty ballad Sure Enuff n Yes I do. TMR is great but is too long-winded for what it is, not say inherently being too long is a flaw because it's obviously not but the gimmick gets old after a while and some of the songs just clearly weren't given the same care as others. SAM is more consistent.

Both records are overlong, gimmicky, and wanky as fuck. If such an aesthetic was more common in music, these would be considered emotionless wank.

yep

This whole thing looks like one of those Yea Forums made meme albums

fair nuff

I mean, it isn’t tho. What’s your point? I love that album

that's because most genuinely complex music doesn't tend to make enough money to have cool album covers

not ture, it was regarded as shit

John Peel, Lester Bangs, and Christgau would all beg to differ

I'm pretty sure he meant to say it's not hard to listen to music, I haven't tried the second album in the OP but TMR is just free jazz with bluesy vocals, it's interesting to listen to - not hard at all. Unless it's causing damage to the listener music isn't difficult to listen to unless you're tied/sleep deprived and susceptible to loud sounds.

not free jazz, every note on that album was rehearsed over and over until they could play it perfectly/exactly the same every time. they were all locked in a house for a month or two, it's pretty insane actually

correction, 8 months

Yowie is the only God, and Captain Beefheart is his prophet.

youtube.com/watch?v=0LwmtjcaxnY

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Okay so I jumped down a rabbit hole into experimental noise nonsense music. I have noted all the albums mentioned, the only ones I’ve heard before is TMR and The Duaghters album so I’m a noob. What albums should I start with? I am interested so far with Royal Trux since it’s the first I’ve checked out

imagine giving a single shit what fuckgau thinks. Literally the worst music critic of all time.
>Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band: Trout Mask Replica [Straight, 1969]
I find it impossible to give this record an A because it is just too weird.

He even admits to being pleb in the review. why would anyone care about this idiot's thoughts?

i don't really care what he thinks, but i do enjoy his reviews from time to time, his love for Hüsker Dü is wonderful. you said it was regarded as shit, i pointed out the incorrectness in that statement by referencing 3 of the most famous music writers of the 20th century who loved. it that is all.

This is only a "hard boss" in the sense that it drags so fucking much by the end you're begging for it to be over.

(not including Necromancer here)

this is the problem inherent in this kind of thing: opinions are never the same. one man's 'hard boss' is another man's 'easy listening'

>All these fucking plebs filtered by TI

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Hey this is actually pretty good, not cringe at all. Considering this is from Avant Spic God, I was expecting the opposite.

Trout Mask Replica pisses me off because it doesn't actually sound interesting. I can enjoy obnoxious and weird song structures (pic related) and I appreciate things like Twin Infinitives for providing songs that truly sound "different" or "crazy". That kind of thing can be very fun to listen to. But Trout Mask Replica doesn't give me that same feel. It just sounds stupid. It just sounds like mangled-up blues/jazz rock.

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OTR are just a tmr cover band wtf

Twin Infinitives is way more grating and chaotic, but both are great avant-garde rock albums

try heavier than a death in the family and public castration is a good idea

i think that TMR is actually much more grating

Bunpity

I should have clarified that it *sounds* like free jazz in structure but not in the sense that it *is* free jazz, as it was not improvised. You are correct.

Bump

>heavier than a death in the family
skip that and get 77 Live

Twin Infinitives takes a hit to the head to like it

TMR is just good music

Twin Infinitives should be Yea Forumscore

This was the most challenging album that's ever clicked with me. I had never heard dissonance like this, but I look for it now.

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>metal
>challenging

quads don't lie

Other than harsh vocals metal wasn't challenging at all until I heard that album but I can't argue with quads damn

Captain Beefheart is undefeated

Honestly this. Safe as Milk, Trout Mask Replica, and The Mirror Man Sessions (because it has the real versions of the best tracks from Strictly Personal) are some of the best blues rock albums ever.

Wrong. See

Ok I'll bite.
I listened to TMR around the time Minecraft was about six months before release. I'd put it on in the background while mining, working with redstone, doing zen shit.
For some odd reason, it worked. It's oddly soothing in a weird way and a lot of the tracks on the album have beautiful arrangements in them almost at random. I can't say whether or not Beefheart was an actual genius or did everything he did on purpose. Some of his tracks have an almost accidental, ghostly beauty to them.
People seem to forget the fact that it's not your job to like this as good. It's really more interesting than good. Just remember that it's a meme for a reason and if you still have no idea why after listening to it, then I guess you miss the point.
It's fucking weird. Is it good? Fuck if I know. I haven't listened to it on purpose in about five years, but it's worth listening to based solely on how weird it is.

Check out the bonus tracks on Safe as Milk reissue if you haven't

Yeah, those are good shit too. I don't listen to them that much because the copy I own is just the original 12, but they are good.

What about Lick My Decals Off Baby?

It's a great album, in my opinion, but compared to Beefheart's other masterpieces it kinda feels a bit weak. If it had been released by any other artist it'd be a masterpiece, but by 1970 Beefheart had just done so much good stuff that it missed the mark a bit.