To understand why Rap isn't music, you need to understand the dichotomy between free and strict rhythm. Rhythms of speech are “free” in the sense that they are not metrically constrained; their patterns of repetition are more elusive, residing on a more abstract level. Rhythms of the music or songs are “strict” because, a beat is put in place and a cyclic or periodic constraint follows naturally.
“Free” rhythm is unmetered, anchored to the periodicities of speech, its segments are of variable length and succeed each other asymmetrically. Strict rhythm is metrical rhythm, constrained by an explicit cycle of beats throughout. The cycles of strict rhythm are structural; their rhetorical representation varies according to genre and performer interest. Free and strict rhythm may be further aligned with the spoken word: free rhythm is ordinary speaking(spoken word, Rap, talking), whereas strict rhythm is a stylized or regulated speaking(singing)
Rap isn't music because Rap is in free rhythm, like ordinary speaking. Rap doesn't abide to a meter. I can Rap on 4/4 like I rap on 12/8 without modifying anything because Rap doesn't abide to the meter. It's rhythm is free, and so, not musical
I hope this well formulated argument will end all those discussions regarding the nature of Rap, but also convince the moderators that Rap shouldn't be discussed here, and should instead be on .
music - vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony (1.b., merriam webster) I don't even listen to rap, but you're retarded. What you have isn't a "well formulated argument," it's the ramblings of a man who doesn't know how to use a dictionary.
Lincoln Green
1.a. of merriam webster also fits. "vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony"
Brody Torres
>having rhythm, melody, or harmony (1.b., merriam webster) Now read my post. When merriam webster say "rhythm" they are talking about rhythm in the musical context, i.e strict rhythm. Rap doesn't have rhythm in this sense since Rap is in free rhythm and doesn't abide to a meter, like when your mom(or anyone) is talking to you in your everyday life
It's funny how people who lack nuance tend to use dictionaries as arguments, when they are just looking like idiots who 1. can't think for themselves and 2. don't understand the text they are citing nor its context
Nicholas Scott
There is no rhythm, melody or harmony in Rap. I want to make clear that I'm talking about Rap, not Hip Hop music. But Rap has as much rhythm, melody and rhythm as spoken word and ordinary talking do. Again, you completely lack nuance
Jack Ortiz
Why?
Angel Williams
Why not?
Josiah Gray
Why not not?
Austin Mitchell
It's a mother fucking dictionary, what "context" do you need? When merriam webster says "rhythm," they mean rhythm. End of story. They don't mean "strict rhythm" or "free rhythm," they mean rhythm. And rap is more than just a guy rapping. That's like saying shit like "ska is just a guy making noises with his mouth and nothing else" or "screamo is just a guy screaming and nothing else." There's instrumentation behind it. Rap is a subgenre of hip hop. Yeah, if you took out the instrumental of a rap song, you'd have nothing but rhythmic poetry, and I could understand an argument about whether or not that in it of itself is music, but that isn't rap. Name one popular rap song (not some obscure shit) that doesn't have any instrumentation.
Julian Cox
You're unbelievable. What, in your opinion, constitutes as real music if all music has to fall under this strict rhythm guideline that you've pulled out of thin fucking air
Hudson Nguyen
Yeah, spoken word has rhythm but not necessarily does it have melody and harmony, you can very easily tell rap does. Just listen to any OutKast song. They harmonize and they use melodies. Rap isn't just rhyming with a beat there's a vocal melody going on most of the time. It's only the shitty soundcloud rappers that basically just talk over a beat.
Caleb Diaz
Can you even call what they do "talking"?
Aaron Hernandez
>It's a mother fucking dictionary, what "context" do you need? When merriam webster says "rhythm," they mean rhythm. End of story. They don't mean "strict rhythm" or "free rhythm," they mean rhythm. Yes, and when people say "rhythm" in the conyext of music they are 99% of the time talking about strict rhythm, just like people say "rhythm" in the context of linguistic they mean "free rhythm".
This is why I say that you lack nuance.
>And rap is more than just a guy rapping. That's like saying shit like "ska is just a guy making noises with his mouth and nothing else" or "screamo is just a guy screaming and nothing else." There's instrumentation behind it. The instrumentation is music. The Rap vocals not so much. Ska is music. Screamo is too(both are constrained to a meter, and not only)
>Rap is a subgenre of hip hop. No Rap is a vocal style mainly used in Hip Hop. You also see Rap in Eurodance up until the late 90's, Jamaican sound systems(toasting) and Grimes. It's not a subgenre of Hip Hop. Again, you lack nuance and the ability to make abstractions.
>Yeah, if you took out the instrumental of a rap song, you'd have nothing but rhythmic poetry, and I could understand an argument about whether or not that in it of itself is music, but that isn't rap. Name one popular rap song (not some obscure shit) that doesn't have any instrumentation. And that's why you lack nuance. The point of the argument concerns Rap(thw vocals), not Hip Hop accompanied with Rap vocals. To separate Rap vocals and to question their musicality, that's literally the point.
And you are making a good point actually. If Rap is music, then would you find musical interest in a Rap acapella spoken in a language that you don't understand? Yeah, that's what I thought.
William Watson
I didn't pull it out of thin air. It comes from reading many books and papers about rhythm, music and linguistic. You lack nuance and your arguments are weak.
Charles Bell
Yeah, I guess you're right. I'll concede.
Levi Moore
You forgot one important thing: We don't care, virgin. If you don't like what we discuss, go back to r/indieheads or r/classical, pseud.
Logan Mitchell
>It comes from reading many books and papers about rhythm, music and linguistic. Name three books you read about rhythm.
Liam Bennett
>Actually arguing with “rap isn’t music” fags You’re going nowhere.
Jonathan Wood
will you please let us know what you think is real music then? bless us with whatever "real" music you've been listening to.
Brandon Morales
>and should instead be on . Though you were serious until this point. Rap should go to >>/trash/.
Ayden Russell
>Yeah, spoken word has rhythm Spoken word isn't in (musical) rhythm. It's in free rhythm, just like ordinary speaking. Try to notate spoken word on a meter, you can't.
>Just listen to any OutKast song. They harmonize and they use melodies. Rap isn't just rhyming with a beat there's a vocal melody going on most of the time. I highly doubt that. Maybe when Andre 3000 sings, but otherwise when he and Big Boi are Rapping, they don't harmonize and use melodies.
But OK. If you are sure that you know what you are talking about, show me those melodies and harmonies in their Rapping. Show me using musical notation the melodies and harmonies in the Rapping of "B.o.B"
Nicholas Sanders
- The Geometry of Musical Rhythm: What Makes a "Good" Rhythm Good? - Rhythm: A Northern Ewe Perspective - Solkattu Manual: An Introduction to the Rhythmic Language of South Indian Music - Wheels Within Wheels : a Study of Rhythm
Adrian Davis
Thank you. It's rare to see such humility on this site.
Gabriel Watson
Some of it does have value in some fields, but not so much musically speaking
Sebastian Price
Dude the reason rap is great is beacaude it can be anything you want as long as your flow is good on the beat and a beat doesnrt per se need a rythm
Landon Gonzalez
I'll take the bait. Ever heard of the "triplet flow" that's really popular now? It's called that because, shockingly, it uses triplets. A strict metronomical subdivision that you could see in any piece of music in any genre. If anything, my issue with a lot of rap is that they're cutting up their speech to fit the beat in a really unnatural, fucking annoying way (Eminem's staccato jabbering being the worst example.) But yeah, most rap music, if you put a metronome under it or just listen to the underlying pulse of the song, is specifically performed with rhythmic intention in exactly the same way singing is, just without pitch. You could transcribe that rhythm and play it on a snare drum and it would be equally musical.
That said, rap and hiphop are in fact music, they just are incredibly limited and almost never reach the same artistic heights as any other genre.
Brayden Rogers
>they just are incredibly limited It's not that the vocal technique itself is limited, it's that its potential is underexploited(except in rhyming). You can't even imagine the number of creative rhythmic ideas you can create against a beat while using rhymes as rhythmic accents. There are a lot of options but they are under-exploited.
Yeah, I should've explained more. It's not inherently limited, but the culture around it and the way people use it is ridiculously limited.
Noah Diaz
>Rap isn't music because Rap is in free rhythm, like ordinary speaking. Rap doesn't abide to a meter. I can Rap on 4/4 like I rap on 12/8 without modifying anything because Rap doesn't abide to the meter. It's rhythm is free, and so, not musical Have you ever heard a rap song in your life? Rap is nearly always synchronized to the beat of the song and rarely does it use natural speech patterns.
Ian Brown
You're talking absolute shit. Some of the best rappers explore strict rhythm with their vocals. They use their mouth as a percussive instrument as much as a narrative tool. They call it "flow" and it's pretty much crucial to any good rap. I'm getting the sense that you're maybe deaf and you're posting this as an experiment based on definitions for rap you've read in a book.
Andrew Torres
Yeah basic rhythm isn't impressive. You can see this same level of rhythmic skill by watching an high school drum line for approx two minutes. I like hip hop but acting like these dudes are rocket scientists for basic musicianship and basic rhyming skills is reaching.
Luis Fisher
OP please to God show me an example of the type of rap you're listening to, I need to get an idea of how you've never heard a rapper rap in metric rhythm. Sounds like you've been listening to nothing but comedy freestyles by non-rappers
Cameron Wright
It's just a bait lmao. But it was done on the purpose of creating certain discussions, rather than to make people lose their time. I'm interested by the subject of rhythm and I wanted to know if someone would have give interesting hindsights about rhythm in Rap.
Aaron Reed
Hip hop is a genre of music. Rap is a form of vocal delivery commonly used in hip hop music. Simple as
William Gonzalez
>Is Rap Yea Forumssic? Well Madvillainy is Yea Forumscore
Charles Martin
this, also for the love of god stop bumping this shitty bait thread
if you someone says it's music it's music. if you don't think it's music it means you don't get it, not that it isn't music
