STOP TALKING ABOUT RAP HERE

>emcees
People who talk in a party.

you don't go to parties

check op filename lol

rap is dope

I just downloaded it, didn't read the filename. Blame the uploader, not the downloader.

where'd you get it from, niggers.net?

I downloaded it from google image after googling "toasting Jamaica". Notice that I'm not an English speaker so sometimes it leads to strange results.

And I'm Black myself btw

k

ITT:A bunch of ass blasted fantano fanboys crying like babies and not giving any arguments against OP.

this isnt debate club

But he is right user... rap isn't music... rap is talentless...there is no real appeal for it, or is it the sound of a black man? do you have to SOUND black to rap? it's dumb cuz it sounds like talking, they can't high or low notes, most of the beats/instruments are computer generated. yeah...not music..and don't give me the "they have talent cuz they can write!!" they write about crime, drugs and women getting naked, they also degrade women too so it's sexist. saying they can write is not enough.

Rappers can't change notes, Rappers don't sing, most of their instruments/beats are computer generated, and it's a single guy talking in a mic with a monotone voice. most of their songs are based on crime, drugs, women getting naked, and gives bad impressions to kids because they turn into rebel douchebags who wear the wrong size pants.

Dude you are blatantly lying. I googled "toasting Jamaica" and came across the same image almost immediately, it's filename is "timthumb". I looked through several pages and found no other version of this image. There is no way you found this image with that filename. You are clearly racist (it's a safe bet that 99% of every user here is).

lol fucking pathetic kys zoomer

Again, I'm a Black man myself.

ass blasted

Blocks your path, then kills you and yeets your body in the trash can

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Sadly this argument emerges very often, so it's tiring to discuss it every time
We need a copypasta

But there is no rebuttal to be made. It's all fact. Rap isn't music. It doesn't require any mastery in the arrangement of rhythm or pitch. It's not music. Get over it.

can i get a citation

They talk instead of singing, don't even speak properly, and use 3rd grade rhyming schemes. What is your point? btw we are talking about Rapping here, not the beat.

And your post is further proving OP's point.

mlml tasty bait
anyway if you really care to understand listen to this

That's a very bad argument. Just because I use no citation doesn't mean that my argument isn't sound, when talking about an abstract practice rather than historical events or facts. Please kys.

>Rap isn't music.
it is music, it just isnt music that you like.
no big, be an adult and move the fuck on.

not making an argument, just want you to make yours first. just seems like baseless conjecture so far

The singing features are music(Sweet Sable for example). Otherwise the Rapping is not music.

Please try to actually construct an argument. Since the beginning of this thread you are just appealing to emotions(as expected from a redditor anyway)

>just because I cannot back up any thing I say doesnt mean I am wrong
it kinda does

So you're arguing that only pitched sounds are musical? What about drummers/percussionists? Are they not musicians?

The problem is that you are the kind of idiots to ask for a citation when someone say that water is wet, or that scat singing doesn't require literary meaning. It's not interesting to talk with you because you think asking for citations for everything is an argument. If we were on /his/ and you asked me for a citation for a date I gave for an historical events, I would understand, but here your question is just retarded.

We are making arguments about an abstract practice, I don't need to show you that someone else think the same thing as I do.

Music is the union of all the elements of a song. Singing is not music, singing is a technique used in music
So in this way rapping isn't music, it's a technique used in music

> I don't need to show you that someone else think the same thing as I do.
citation needed

Attached: bait.jpg (623x626, 114K)

You’re right, rap isn’t music. Hip hop is though.

Glad we cleared that up.

i don't understand, you're saying you're making an ahistorical argument but the entire op post revolves around the history of rap originating from emcee. you're making a strange claim and not backing it up, if anyone here is uninteresting to talk to i'd say it's you
this is just retarded lol. rapping is a technique used in rap music. is that better?

Top pic, but sadly people still eat it up

wanting to talk about actual music is bait now
really is a dead art form

>rapping is a technique used in rap music. is that better?
Oh yes! What is your point know? That rap music isn't... music?

>but here your question is just retarded.
no son, your statements are, that's why user is asking you to back them up with something
which apparently you cant
2/10, been trolled better

Well, first of all, you are a retard. Drums have pitch. One can hit various parts of a drum head on different places to make slight differences in pitch. Without even mentioning tuning you can do this.

Second of all, drumming requires a mastery of rhythm. I can notate the rhythm of a drum on the staff. Try to notate a Rap song, you are going to waste your time because trying to notate talking is very stupid, and because talking isn't in time or rhythm.

i know english isn't your first language but it's gonna make figuring out what you're trying to say a total chore

>the talking isn't in time or rhythm
you can hide the thread now everyone

>i don't understand, you're saying you're making an ahistorical argument but the entire op post revolves around the history of rap originating from emcee

The post you asked for a citation didn't mention anything about the emcee tradition you douche bag. where did I mention emceeing? I'm not OP, retard.

And again, I don't need to give a citation for a claim made about an abstract practice that I'm describing. If I was talking about an historical event or fact, maybe I would have to, but I didn't. So stop being a retard.

Notate the rhythm of Rap vocals please. We will have a good laugh. I'm sure there are a lot of sextuplet lmao.

This

Ad hominems are not arguments. My thread isn't a bait.

you're clearly upset about being wrong and now you're getting emotional on me

>but I didn't
but here I don't have to *

>DONT LIKE WHAT I DONT LIKE
>not bait
ok kid

Making ad hominems and appealing to emotions as always...

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Yeah english isn't my first language, but I'm doing my best

What is your point? Rap and singing are techniques. Rap music is music obviously.
Do you want to say that rapping isn't musical?
Do you want to say that songs with rap aren't music?
Explain yourself, instead of "muh you don't speak english well"
You can understand what "explain your point" means, right?

fallacy fallacy

wont but here's an easy to follow example. all notes are either non-syncopated 1/4 and 1/8 notes or in triplet meter. a toddler could follow this rhythm. youtube.com/watch?v=OL8IYeErHHY

I didn't use the word "like".

This is the problem about people like you, you perceive things through emotions, and have no regards for facts. I didn't claim that I didn't "like" Rap, I just stated that it wasn't Yea Forumssic.

>This is the problem about
>about
with*

so, you expect everyone to refute your unsubstantiated claims with quotes and evidence?

Rap is a vocal technique used mainly in the genre of hip hop.

In short, you can't notate it :)

a claim which you have refused to back up with facts.
>people like you
no ad hominem here, nope

>muh why didn't you use a citation to your own critique of an abstract vocal practice!
I'm starting to think that you are legit trolling.

>posters: 17
lol

>n-n-n-n-n-no you
everytime

>you are a retard
No need for ad hominem, friend.
>Drums have pitch
As does the human voice.
> One can hit various parts of a drum head on different places to make slight differences in pitch.
Inflection of the voice is very comparable to this technique.
>drumming requires a mastery of rhythm
This is a strange assertion to make. Mastery of an instrument is not a prerequisite for the music produced to be legitimate.
> I can notate the rhythm of a drum on the staff. Try to notate a Rap song
Ok. Pic related.

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you're boring

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cmon man respond. It's in the contract, I take your bait, you give me you's

>Singing is not music
Kill yourself please you retarded cunt. The voice is as much of an instrument as is a guitar.

youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
youtube.com/watch?v=MMjTISJLNqw
youtube.com/watch?v=81uJZIF9TCs

CLEAN IT UP JANNY, CLEAN IT UP!

Attached: CLEANITUP.png (800x1253, 305K)

Reading comprehension maybe?
Singing, as playing the guitar, as playing drums is not music.
Those are techniques which create music.
Details? Yes, but details create ambiguity, and it's easy to use that in an argument to draw wrong conclusions

Also...
Why did you drop the "K" bomb on me like that :(

I highly doubt the accuracy of those transcriptions.

The notation and beaming the author use doesn't fit the stress accent of the lyrics at all.

Kind of a strange concept of trying to fit rhythms to spoken word. And very stupid too.

To be honest it just seems like over-analyzed bullshit. I promise you that no rapper has ever used a "9-tuplet" with dotted 16ths and syncopation

>Kind of a strange concept of trying to fit rhythms to spoken word. And very stupid too.
Singing does that as well

singing is the oldest form of music. Many of the oldest languages are tonal, so many linguists believe that language may have evolved from song, rather than the other way around. additionally, almost all instruments use pitches and volumes within the normal range of the human voice because those are the the ones our ears are most attuned to, and generally find the most pleasing. so from this perspective, I think it is fairly reasonable to claim that singing is music, and if I were to try extend that to the false dichotomy you made here, that playing an instrument is simply a technique you might employ while making music.
in other words: stay in school kiddo

>singing is the oldest form of music
No, singing is the oldest technique used in music. Not reading rest

What I mean is that the author is trying to notate spoken word, which doesn't make sense at all. It seems that he use use a notation programa and play unquantized.

>notate spoken word
Rap is spoken word with rhythm. If you try to annotate common talk you will notice that the pace varies greatly even inside of one phrase. Rap falls on a grid, and that makes it possible to notate

Rap has clearly defined rhythm, and that's objective

Rapper's don't rap out of time, the difference between rapping and singing is that they don't discretely pitch their musical intervals, but they're similar in that they're both in time. The difference between rapping and talking is that they are in time, but they're similar because they don't discretely pitch their intervals (into minor seconds, major seconds, and so on.)

I very highly doubt any rapper knowingly writes verses with pentuplets and shit. It's instinctual. OP is a retard though

>I highly doubt the accuracy of those transcriptions.
>The notation and beaming the author use doesn't fit the stress accent of the lyrics at all.
The accuracy of this particular transcription is irrelevant. I was just proving the rapping could definitely be notated
.>Kind of a strange concept of trying to fit rhythms to spoken word. And very stupid too.
To be honest it just seems like over-analyzed bullshit.
I'm sorry you feel that way, user.
>I promise you that no rapper has ever used a "9-tuplet" with dotted 16ths and syncopation
What does that matter?

So what? I will never understand why people say stuffs like that. You seem to forget that 90% of music has never been written out

Traditional music from most of the world isn't notated. Gamelan is more rhythmically complex than most Pop songs you hear on the radio but is traditionally not notated. So it doesn't matter.

Also some Rappers do have a way to write their rhymes in relation to the meter :
>"I'm just writing out the rhythm of the flow, basically. Even if it's just slashes to represent the beats, that's enough to give me a visual path." - Del the Funky Homosapien
>"I've created my own sort of writing technique, like little marks and asterisks to show like a pause or emphasis on words in certain places" - Vinnie Paz

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Agreed. Rapping is not a musical talent.

>Rap is spoken word with rhythm
Citation?

>Rap falls on a grid
How so?

Same thing, please provide a citation.

Agree. If you take the 100 biggest hip-hop songs of the last 20 years 80% of them where probably produced by people that knows zero about music theory. How can you make music without knowing music theory? You are just making noises.

I don't like rap, and I think pop rap is just absolute drivel.

But to deny that it's music? No way. As a musician, I respect the art and the people behind what they make. I might not like it, but if someone came up to me and argued why their favourite Drake song is amazing, I'd gladly point out the good things with them, objectively, because music is music.

I guess some people like the OP think that their opinion and preference is also equivalent to a definition, a standard, or even a view that for some reason they think is the same as most people in the world. That's just the way it is, and we will never run out of such people as long as people are born.

So, OP, go fuck yourself.

I fucking love gamelan

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Source: Scientific test
take a rap acappella, get the bpm of the song they're comming from, make a track of that bpm with hi hats on all the eighnotes. Sync the first sillable with the first hi hat

All the syllables fall on the high hats (except occasional 16ths or triplets which still are in time)

If you try to do this with speech you will fail

Well, has anyone tried this? Providing an example would be nice for your argument

I'm not the biggest fan of rap , but it is music. The only true difference between it and other forms of music is the fact that relies heavily on beat and rhythm. But yes I would say that the industry has gone down hill in production.

If a piece of music requires great technical skill, that doesn't mean by default it then sounds great. We can recognize it requires skill, but it doesn't necessary follow it sounds great. Musical skill is a poor argument, also you are cherry picking with the cat example. There is a lot of variation within rap, so your point is extremely reductive. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean people on here don't. There are are opinions that exist outside of your own. You are not the arbiter of what music does and does not get posted here.

>I know I asked you for them, but you had to know I wasn’t going to accept them anyway
>why duz everyone think I’m trolling?

>Providing an example would be nice for your argument
Sorry can't right now. I will be able in three hours. You could try it, so that you see for yourself that it's not cherrypicking

>youtube.com/watch?v=nzedvUTa1nE
10/10 riddim.

Ah yes because some random faggot like yourself decides what is and isn't music you don't have to like it, filter the posts faggot

look out for my new single:

CAT BAT: KILLIN WHITEY

thanks

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literal facebook boomer tier arguement
idk how this shit gets replies

>dictates what's music and what's not via personal taste
>spams threads on discussion on the genre with retarded copypastas for no apparent reason other than boosting your ego

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You sound mad

Based OP

Rap is fuckin bullshit and all you fags are retard to pretend be cool for listen to this.

Of course is not music

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>Of course is music, just not music that I like

Anything regarding spoken word isn’t music according to your dumbass logic, but besides that rapping takes musical skills, I’d like to see you try to rap over a beat and make it sound good but not only that have some sort of substance or melodic flow since every rapper does that nowadays.

>All these idiots saying "muh you just don't like it"
Listen you retards, I actually like some Rap records. I like Mural by Lupe Fiasco for example.

However, I'm aware and state the fact that Rap isn't music

I didn't use the word "like" any times in the OP, because it's NOT ABOUT FEELINGS, it's about the fact that Rap isn't music.

Now I changed my mind a bit because some anons actually used technical arguments, but stop fucking saying that it's about feelings. I don't care about feelings.

>arguing with someone clearly not trying to discuss anything on topic and just want to rage bait anons into an incessant argument when you can just call them a dumbass faggot and move on with your day
Arguing online is for virgin zoomers who don’t have anything better to do

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>Lupe Fiasco
Yikes. Shit taste and retarded too.

Rap is just a vocal technique used in Hip Hop music that puts focus on creating a rhythm by using rhymes to highlight certain accents

the truth

Regardless of what you think about Lupe Fiasco you can't claim that Mural isn't close to being a 10/10. But I agree that OP is retarded.
youtube.com/watch?v=sA5v2i_WMQ8

Everything about this track is 10/10. The flow is 10/10, the beat is 8/10, the lyrics are 10/10, the delivery is 10/10. What the fuck do you need?

And he got incredible one-liners, like that :
>"Bury the hatchet, that's how a bird's born."
This specific line is just mind-boggling to me because it has three different meanings depending on how you perceive it.
The first meaning is just a play on words:
Birds hatch from eggs, and hatchet sounds like "hatch it".
The second meaning meaning is about peace:
A hatchet could be seen as a weapon, and by burying it, you are creating peace. What's the symbol for peace? That's right, a dove.
The third meaning is about the native Americans:
As a sign of peace, the natives buried their hatchets and weapons to welcome the settlers. The settlers then murdered them and took their land. That land then went on to become the U.S., and the symbol of the U.S. is an eagle.

>MUH FEELINGS

BAT CAT: KILL WHITEY

BUY MY NEW ALBUM

Disregard my last post, I suck cocks

You are dumb.

Suck my dick.

qq nonce

CAT BAT: KILL WHITEY MORE

THE SEQUEL

I never really understood this argument. Rapping is obviously rhythmic, even a dumbass can figure that out. The instrumentals are even more obviously rhythmic and melodic. If you're actually gonna say it's not music because THE VOCALS don't have discreet pitch variation, wouldn't that apply to shit like metal shrieks too? Is extreme metal not music either? This is obviously shitty bait and I'm not sure why I'm bothering with responding, but I feel like you could really easily just make a copypasta that refutes every single "(c)rap isn't music" -post.

>If you're actually gonna say it's not music because THE VOCALS don't have discreet pitch variation, wouldn't that apply to shit like metal shrieks too?
Yes. Screaming isn't music

IM GUNNA TAKE MY HORSE ON THE OL TOWN ROAD IM GUNNA RIIIIIIIIIIDE TILL I CAN'T NO MO

So any genre with non-melodic vocals is immediately not music?

Screaming or talking with no regards of rhythm isn't music. I'm not OP(I consider Rapping music) but you made a good point :
People complain about Rap but metal shrieks have even less musical quality than it, because it's ACTUALLY JUST SCREAMING.

i think once you get a few years older, graduate high school, etc. you'll see how dumb you sound right now. do you know how boring it would be if all music conformed to your standards? it'd be entirely Carole King and Aretha Franklin, Led Zeppelin, just the safest, most middle of the road stuff. no more muzak. no more musique concrete. no more experimenting, because "faggot OP #2532524" says it's not music. You have a very Orwellian totalitarian nightmare concept of what constitutes as music. also you sound like my mom.

>totalitarian
>nightmare
Pick one

>i think once you get a few years older, graduate high school, etc. you'll see how dumb you sound right now.
>also you sound like my mom.
What are you implying? That your mom is dumb and uneducated?

well, she is uneducated

>coping with white guilt

low effort bait, but I'm really tired of seeing this over and over. anyone who has ever tried to disqualify any form of expression intentionally produced for the purpose of listening as "music" or "not music" does not and will never understand art. do not argue with them
. if someone says it's music it's music. if you have to ask why you'll never get it

can we let this trash thread die and let the fire burn? this post is actual low tier bait with no effort

Nigga, respect your elders

This is complete and absolute trash

Post your hand with a timestamp, cracker.

Glad that you said "mainly". Eurodance up until the late 90's tended to use rapping a lot.

From an Hip Hop head's perspective, most of it(the Rapping in Eurodance) was quite bad and sometimes cringe. And slightly off-beat sometimes.

But I guess the appeal is different

This thread is a false flag operation

Everyone posting here should sage their posts

>This thread is a false flag operation
Who would do that and why? You sound like Alex Jones

Fuck off, Ben Shapiro

>He can't handle facts and logic
le retarded libtard BTFO xD

>Everything about this track is 10/10.
>the beat is 8/10

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I hate rap but also niggers.

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so is Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen useless then? since they mostly just talk.