When did people retroactively decide that jazz was high class music instead of the original degenerate music...

When did people retroactively decide that jazz was high class music instead of the original degenerate music? Not trying to bait/trick any of you with that statement. You guys know that fans in the jazz age were considered sex and drug crazed, right? The sophisticated people looked down on it.

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When rock came and it was in full swing jazz seemed more refined by comparison and around that time it also started getting way more experimental than before (around the early 60s)

Well to put it simply it's just because it was the music of common black folk and black communities in America were and still are overwhelmingly poor, crime ridden and drug ridden. Now the music of common black folk is hip hop and people who listen to it now simply listen to it based on its own merits and not because it's what is played most commonly where they live.

I recently re-watched the scene from the original Disney's The Jungle Book where Baloo and Bagheera rescue Mowgli from King Louie's court, featuring the song "I Wanna Be Like You". I was a little unnerved by how Baloo gets visibly drunk/high on the song's jazz rhythm. It really got my noggin joggin'.

When white people started integrating western art concepts into it.

hmmm
I'll have to agree with OP on this one

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Pretty much as gross rock became popular I’d say in the late 60s early 70s because of the massive difference in music theory understanding required to make the two genres. Modal jazz and post bop are infinitely more interesting to people with any idea of music theory than shit like Hendrix or the Floyd. Most people don’t have this understanding and don’t have any reason to listen to jazz anyway anymore, so it becomes something for people in the know only I guess.

theres nothing to agree on though. hes asking a question

ive wondered this too

i think bebop is when it started to get an academic flavor, and hard bop and cool jazz were reactions to that movement

i would believe this, especially when the 60s featured some artists getting pretty out there, e.g. Coltrane's spiritual stuff

This shit happens all the time, most notably with shakespeare. An art movement comes along that the upper class doesn't like or understand, people in the know/connected to the underground art world recognize its greatness, once it's safe the wealthy claim it and pretend they liked it the whole time.
Jazz is fucking great, but it's only "high class" in the sense that it requires great skill and discipline (which in itself is a classist connotation). It was never meant to be high class, it's just one of the more recent victims.

because white people like it now

I think jazz changed. When jazz was looked upon as "degenerate music" a lot of it was racial, and that was in the 20s and 30s. Back then, jazz was much more simple. After the rise of bebop and hard bop, jazz was much more rhythmically and harmonically complex, making it a "high art"

Benny Goodman's concert on Carnegie Hall in 1938 elevated jazz music to a more serious standard for the first time.
The most important thing, however, was the integration of western classical elements on it by Stan Kenton, creating Third Stream, around 1950/1951.

What age group of people tend to be sex and drug crazed?

They grew up you faggot.

my guess is that after rock 'n' roll came out no one under 30 ever listened to or went to jazz clubs again, so it became more "adult" as the crowd aged. meanwhile the explosion of soul and r'n'b in the 60s meant even older black audiences had lots of other choices, and jazz audiences became increasingly white.
now you have an older and whiter audience and they're more open to "critical" explanations of jazz.
Graduate students and advanced undergrads start buying "mandatory" jazz records to study them (Kind of Blue, Giant Steps) while lacking any connection to jazz culture, which is withering and dying away.
Now jazz is basically music for educated white people, except in a few places where it's music for old black people to go get drunk to.

>Modal jazz and post bop are infinitely more interesting to people with any idea of music theory than shit like Hendrix or the Floyd

t. Nerd

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mid 2000s every "serious" guitarist said they were trained in jazz guitar

but i think it was around the 80s/90s when jazz became a fullblown pseudolectual meme.

TV shows would have artsy coffee house type scenes with jazz

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Well it may have been the first low class music but by today's standards even Noel Coward is sophisticated. Jazz is only second to classical in terms of theoretical sophistication.

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is this the jazz thread
I've been practicing giant steps this entire week and it's really starting to click
do people really think of passages through the key changes that quickly? I end up spamming chord arpeggios and ostinato in the different keys because it still moves too fucking fast for me

Factually it's complex and innovative, but it's void of tradition and improvised.

Except that he doesn't.
>lol white people are the reason jazz is high culture; some white dudes did some stuff in 1940 and now it's art
Literally racist opinion. Jazz is a black genre.