Look like shit all the time

>also as a composer
??? Most of his songs were built around ostinati and were mostly in binary form, his debut solo album in particular is just incredibly boring outside of the showpieces. I mean I'll acknowledge that he was a good bass player (though perhaps a bit too idiosyncratic), but I'd certainly not call him GOAT material.

Being fair, rock and metal both severely underused bass which after a generation or two of players, turned most into dull idiots who can barely get a grip on what's going on.
Personally, Jaco was one of my greatest inspirations to git gud at bass and I admire him greatly for that. Think of it this way: for me to be able to play pretty much any beatles song, it took me 1 month of study and that's where most bassists I saw get stuck, many can't even slap or give a good harmonic, let alone play a chord.
>tl:dr; it's a self-inflicted wound

well said. when you get right down to it, bass is easy as fuck, in the sense that the barrier to entry is low, even though the ceiling is infinite

>Most of his songs were built around ostinati and were mostly in binary form
>his debut solo album in particular is just incredibly boring
Neither of those statements are true but I believe it has nothing to do with him in particular but with the genre in general. If you find "Come On, Come Over" boring, chances are you don't like funk at all. This applies to most of his songs not to mention you're forgetting his whole era with Weather Report which is the furthest you can get from all of your descriptors.
Overall, I respect your taste, this just isn't for you.

flea? yeah, he's short

I mean it's a decent funk tune, but nothing more than that. Also bringing up Weather Report is kind of nonsensical in a discussion of Pastorius' abilities as a composer, considering he wrote very little of the material he recorded with them as well as most of the music penned by him indeed exhibiting most of the characteristics I described, being largely simple tunes designed to showcase his technical prowess.

And don't you believe his technical prowess is part of why he's so appraised? Mostly for a bass player, the man with the 4-stringed guitar seldom going to the front and playing like most guitarrists would dream of. Thinking about it a little, he can easily be compared with Joe Pass.
Also, he had great improvisation skills, with much of his live stuff being improvised.

But that's the thing, he's by no means a bad player but he's not at all exceptional either. And being able to improvise is kind of the bare minimum for being a jazz musician so I don't see why you felt like bringing that up.

Not that guy, but his improvised solos are pretty good and that's ignoring the evident technical aspect of them, probably talking out of my ass here, but I haven't seen a bassist blend in with any leading band as smooth as him. Otherwise, everything you have posted is without a doubt correct.

Now, you see, this is where we run into a problem because yeah, improvisation is a must if you play jazz but so is for a guitarrist knowing the chords yet you won't say a first year student plays chords the same way Wes Montgomery did.
I want you to go now and watch a live by Jaco and see the difference between what he does when improvising and what's traditionally understood as improvisation.

>I haven't seen a bassist blend in with any leading band as smooth as him
Honestly that is one of his major weaknesses as far as I'm concerned, his playing is highly idiosyncratic and he has a tendency to dominate whatever setting he is in, his stint with Weather Report is my least favorite line up of theirs for that reason. One of the few times I think it really, really works is on Metheny's "Bright Size Life", thanks to him being rather minimalist himself and the album consisting mostly of very airy, open-ended tunes. An example of a bassist that was able to seamlessly integrate very intricate and technical playing into a band context, I'd rather look to Scott LaFaro, just listen to his responsive, near contrapuntual playing and rhythmic interest during Evans' chorus here:
youtube.com/watch?v=yStCqteGiQU
See above, contains a lot of my thoughts on his playing.

This was the most civil discussion I've ever witnessed (and had the luck to participate in) in Yea Forums

>tendency to dominate whatever setting he is in
I think the problem lies within his dominant genre (fusion), as it demands more presence of everyone involved rather than the intricate layering of modal and post-bop.
I still think, despite the genre, that his solos blend better with the ensemble than a lot of jazz bassists, at least the popular ones.
But I pretty much agree with everything you posted.

jazz fusion bassists*
didn't proofread

our resident super shitposter has probably gone to sleep for the night

Bass player is the last musician added to a band because he's typically the most replaceable.

I'm a bassist and started a band with another bassist. Rock, paper scissor'd into who played guitar and after quite a good amount of time found a drummer.
I also play in another 2 man band, have actually never been replaced and despite not being close to the lead, he always calls first whenever he wants to record or play some gigs. Drummer is not that hard here, considering we hire whoever's available for the given need.
The way I see it, if a bandmate is replaceable, is probably because he either sucks or doesn't have enough input.

That’s apples to oranges though dude. I think jaco is so praised because he literally changed the way people looked at bass playing. I’m not going to say he’s any more technically able or tasteful or whatever than any bassists today but he kind of created the vanguard for what electric bass in a jazz/fusion/funk setting could be and now is.
Comparing him to someone like Scott Lafaro is kind of pointless. First off they play different instruments. I mean sure they take the same role in the band but they’re completely different monsters from a technical and sonic standpoint. In a trio setting, of course the bassist is going to play in a way that makes the melody instrument sound good. That’s their job. In a fusion setting it’s groove-based so one instrument, even the bass, stepping into the front just works because it’s not like he has to be holding down the harmony.
I see where you’re coming from but I think you draw an unfair comparison and fail to see that Jaco was breaking boundaries and playing bass like nobody ever had before

yeah comparing lafaro (or chuck israels who i prefer over lafaro, with gomez tied 2nd with lafaro or third) to jaco is preposterous. its like comparing wilt chamberlain with shaq. different eras, different styles of play.

jaco was a great bass player no doubt, and certainly a good songwriter, but thats kind of it. he has his own place in the history of bassists playing jazz fusion, nothing more, nothing less. let's not forget jeff berlin.