Michael Gielen is dead. Sad! He was a true champion of modern works as conductor. One of the best conductors out there for those who don't like the heavyweight style, but the chamber like style for orchestral works.
Is 4 voices enough to communicate desired harmonic movement? What is the minimum number of voices to write before you're just decorating the established structure?
It depends on the degree of harmonic complexity one wants to achieve. Four parts are usually enough for anything that isnt' too fancy. But if for example you want a chord like a full Dm13 (D F A C E G B D) you will need at least eight. I would say eight is actually a good cut-off.
Adam Hall
>What is the minimum number of voices to write before you're just decorating the established structure? 3
Any more than 3 and you're usually doubling something, unless you have a 7th or other extension every chord
Parker Campbell
how do i get into classical? i already enjoy some vivaldi and bach and other baroque composers but most later stuff really bores me
do i need to know music theory?
Angel Morris
That's weird because most people who aren't serious listeners tend to gravitate towards he romantic period and find Baroque the most boring.
Jack Torres
Try some Beethoven, maybe start with his 6th symphony.
Jacob Hernandez
4 voices can be also useful if you want a full triad with the root both in the bass and in the melody, otherwise you would have to suppress the fifth.
David Perry
romanticism just sounds too affected to me, like something you would hear in a bbc period drama
i also like some modern "experimental" composers like xenakis who i find very sonically interesting
but what i really want to know is if music theory is imperative for a "true appreciation" of classical
Jack Bell
its a good thing you're naturally inclined to have good taste. When I started out my favorite composer was Debussy.
Isaiah Ortiz
I don't think it's imperative to know it, but it can be useful to appreciate the evolution of music through time.
Mason Allen
Start with either some Satie, Mozart, and Reich if you want something easy to digest not too crazy.
But you like Vivaldi and Bach, so you probably would like the Rachmaninoff, Ravel, (late) Beethoven school of stuff more because of how impressive and exciting the technical stuff sounds.
You don't need to know music theory, just to be able to follow all the different parts you hear as western classical music doesn't repeat phrases in the frequency most popular music does. A good helpful thing to realize is less theory, but more form/structure. Like, know what makes a sonata form a sonata form, a rondo, a fugue, etc. It's not essential, but it'll help make more sense out of the direction the music is taking.
Jackson Powell
Not all romantic music is programmatic or overuses dynamics though. Also while romantic era music can have tendencies to overuse dynamics, Baroque era has non-existent ones making the works feel far more robotic.
Chase Nelson
thanks for the advice. i'll def read up on the different types of works (sonatas, symphonies, etc) as it seems like classical is a lot more methodical than popular music
3 voices is generally the minimum, although 2 part and even 1 part (compound line, implied harmony, etc.)
Benjamin Hernandez
No, it's definitely a different piece. I heard it on YouTube as a piano transcription of a Bach chorale played by Hewitt iirc, but I can't find it anymore.
Aiden Smith
I was just adding to your post, not disagreeing with you.
Any contemporary non-classical pieces written in sonata-allegro form?
Leo Jones
MET opera starting another ring. Memegold is starting soon. Listen to it on your NPR radio of choice. >Philippe Jordan conducting I know and the lead roles are literal whos, while the supporting roles are top tier singers.
Asher Jones
Moar liek gay
Adam Clark
Stravinsky Rachmaninoff Mahler
Nicholas Walker
Sonata is a very specific form from the classical and romantic period
I came here to ask a few questions. You can answer them or tell me to go fuck myself.
>Question No. 1: What does it mean to be classically trained? >Question No. 2: Do I buy a classical nylon-string guitar or an acoustic steel-string and why? I think the first has more "soul" and emotion, but the second is more versatile and casual (not always a bad thing). Getting both, not an option. >Question No. 3: Why is classical guitar not as popular as a western acoustic? Even in classical music circles I noticed that it tends to be ignored.
>1 pretty subjective definition for me its being able to effectively interpret and communicate 'classical' music on your instrument >2 really depends what youre looking to do and at what level i think obviously im always gonna say classical (nylon), but if youre not looking to play our music then acoustic is probably best >3 were a pretty retarded instrument too quiet to be properly featured in orchestra a repertoire that pretty much only specialists only know, like everybody knows Rodets aranjuez but no one knows ponces Sur classical in general gets shit on by popular music probably a ton of other reasons
my word aint bible but thats my thoughts
Parker Sullivan
Maybe Poulenc, although I don't really care for him.
>than on how to effectively sound good sounding good is relative. theory is objective
Jonathan Turner
Stockhausen please never reply to my posts again Of course, but what is objective is that classical music (especially earlier music) doesn't deliberately want to sound good like other modern genres and focuses on other objective aspects instead. It may sound good still, as that is subjective, but my question is what's the use of this type of music in [current year] when there's immediately enjoyable music available
Gavin Moore
Based on my opinion about my recent listens, what would you guys suggest I check out?
Bach's WTC Book 1 - felt a bit robotic to me. Lots of detail here but there's a sense of excitement and emotion that's missing here.
Mozart's Clarinet Concerto and Clarinet Quintet - These were kinda fun, but there's something about them idk that just feels kinda frivolous. So like they were good but not great imo.
Beethoven and Dvorak's 9th - these were my favorite things I listened to in the past week. Good variety of melodies throughout which were all great in their own regard. But what really kinda put these in the great category is their attempts at eliciting emotions through the many tricks being used involving a combination of orchestration/texture, rhythms, and dynamics. It really makes the works feel alive.
Everything that "sounds good" generally follows theory.
Classical always focuses on the end product: sound. The sound you hear at a concert is usually what the composer intended. As to "Good" - this is subjective. What one composer thought was "good", a pleb may not.
Tyler Jackson
>excitement and emotion that's missing here WTC I is full of excitement and emotion tho
Gombert used musica ficta in this motet forcing all the voices to modulate descending through the circle of fifths on the words "mala autem quare non sustineamus" (why should we not endure bad things?)
Sorry to poorfags for posting spotify, i didn't find a youtube link of this recording but is on rutracker if you want it
Please reply seriously to my posts. >Everything that "sounds good" generally follows theory Not from what I've seen in musical analysis. It explains modulation, invertion, etc. but in a pure musical sense, not to please the ear. Sounding "good" seems more like a consequence of what Bach does rather than his first priority, for instance. >As to "Good" - this is subjective >What one composer thought was "good", a pleb may not But that's contradictory. If it takes a 'pleb' not to enjoy the sounds, then they aren't subjective, he's just dumb. If it were subjective then you'd call him just another guy, not a pleb.
Aiden Hall
>Sounding "good" seems more like a consequence of what Bach does rather than his first priority, for instance. Bach had an impeccable musical taste and sounding good have always been his first and foremost priority (as for any composer anyway before XX century and most of them from there on). The point with Bach is that his taste was so good that they basically created musical theory by reverse engineering what he composed, and that's why his music can sound and look like it was "driven" by music theory, when in fact is not.
Daniel Nguyen
>taste being "good" or "bad" You mean refined, user.
Brayden Taylor
What is it in your opinion?
Also on a side note I FUCKING HATE music videos with musical intros and/or outros.
Levi Walker
Thanks for the annotation, english isn't my first language.
Isaac Carter
You don't know what you're talking about user.
Nathaniel Campbell
was meant for
Xavier James
Im going to a concert this morning: two schubert symphonies and Britten's piano concerto
Jaxon Lopez
Mahler 3
Jason Sanchez
Hans, what the fuck are you talking about now, you fucking pretentious cretin?
Far from it. Unique, dense style, full of micro details and some very unusual advanced techniques. Very interesting use of live electronics in pieces such as Time and Motion Study II.
He's kind of the final boss of atonal music - certainly not for the faint-hearted
I really like his idea of the score as an area of struggle - with misleading directions, traps and impossibilities that a player must navigate as best they can.
to you. I really like his work, sounds great. Super high replay value - almost like listening to a fractal, each time you can hear different tiny details
I didn't mean to say that in a derogatory way, lol
What I meant by that was, while Ferneyhough's compositions are sonically mindblowing, they're also mindblowing complex as well. So much so that most of his music is borderline impossible to play, or at the very least impossible to play with full accuracy/without delving into interdeterminacy to some degree.
If that's not some genius compositional shitposting, idk what is.
Evan Edwards
Full accuracy isn't what Ferneyhough intends. Watch the video in where he explains this a bit.
he's more interested in suggesting what might be interesting to a player, and having them try to deal with it.
>Please reply seriously to my posts The serious reply is that you don't enjoy it because of your low intelligence. Popular music is created to be enjoyed by as many people as possible, even retards like you.
Kayden Thompson
Lmao
Jonathan Rogers
respond
Ian Gray
i think prokofiev was the greater craftman, but shostakovich the arch orchestrator
Jayden Lewis
what's /classical/ problem with popular works?
Nicholas Perez
dies iræ, dies illa / solvet sæclum in favilla / teste david cum sibylla
Charles Reyes
They are simple and appeal to normies
Aiden Martin
I said serious replies user.
Dylan Nguyen
I really like La Noche de los Mayas by Revueltas, what are some other pieces like it? especially the 4th movement
I have heard everything by Brahms and only like the hungarian dances
Tyler Bennett
you don't like his symphonies? The double concerto? German requiem? I get it if you are are Hans Rott.
Jack Stewart
Oh yeah, the german requiem is great, but I have never really got into his symphonies or piano concertos
Isaac Brown
even the chamber stuff? including the shoenberg-brahms quartet? fair enough man
Jordan Carter
Thanks for your awful opinion, anonymous.
Nathan Cox
This is semi off-topic but I'm looking for a pop/jazz song that starts with a melody similar to the theme of the 1st movement of Shostakovich 5 (the first 8 notes). Does anyone know the song, it might also be j-pop, I just remember it having a jazzy vibe. youtu.be/YS4dcZ90fN0
Luis Cox
How does disliking Charles Ives make him a Schoenbabby? Charles Ives made 12 tone music before Schoenberg did it.
You were the one that said it's not made to be enjoyable, then you have to say what it's made to be. I said it's made to be enjoyed by those who can enjoy it, doesn't mean it's made to be enjoyed by as many people as possible.
Guys I'm trying to learn moonlight sonata, currently on page 3 but the triplets theme (like g# c# e in the beginning) sound a little like a waltz. Is it ok if I give them that waltz like, swingy feeling or should I play them as monotone as possible?
Kevin Sanchez
are you accenting the first one too much? don't know how else it could sound like a waltz, but if you want to play with beethoven's intentions in mind, then stay far away from a waltz
Robert Hernandez
Yes that's probably it. For me it's hard to play notes like a metronome but I should practise it. It doesn't sound exactly like a waltz but it gets a texture that isn't as monotone, which is the point of the piece tho I believe. It's just hard to keep a monotone dynamic for me for some reason.
Robert Baker
You misunderstand my question. If classical is "made to be enjoyed by those who can enjoy it", what is its purpose in a time and age where there is readily available music that CAN "be enjoyed by as many people as possible"? Or in other words, what does Classical in particular have to offer that other music does not? You also seen to be under the impression that I don't listen to Classical, which isn't the cas. I'm listening to Walcha's WTC rn for instance, but I also listen to a lot of other music this general considers complete trash
Yes, we all know that Bach did WTC, but have you realized that Mozart = WAM?
Elijah Smith
Why are neither even attempting to give proper answers? Could it be you don't know any? Typical of this general and Yea Forums to not know what they're talking about I know, but give it a shot at least. Die Soldaten and his Requiem are good starters.
>Why are neither even attempting to give proper answers? Could it be you don't know any? I'd rather have a wank or listen to CPE Bach than waste energy and thoughts on your retarded posts. Also, you ignored which has a pretty important point.
William Gutierrez
I found an almost decent Boulez work, it is still shit though
I've already answered by analogy. Why drink expensive wine when you can buy the cheapest wine in the store? I don't know wines but if you ask a wine guy that it's like your question. Just because it can't be appreciated by the masses isn't a reason someone who can appreciate it shouldn't consume it and he appreciates it more than the junk that's produced for the masses. But you already said you listen to nonclassical as well as classical so it all makes sense. Also in logic the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not on someone else to disprove. You're the one who claimed classical music isn't made to be enjoyed or good, but you have provided zero basis for this.
Zachary Miller
Well, to be fair, these memorial pieces are usually kind of shit.
Ives, Bartok, and Stravinsky are the holy trinity of Modernism, fuck Schoenberg and fuck Boulez
Elijah Lopez
>those composers with a short and sweet oeuvre What are they're names classical? The "wrote little but all masterpieces" trope is my favorite thing in the whole world
An orchestration question: I'm working on an arrangement of a piece of mine for orchestra. I'm considering assigning a 30-second low F# drone to the French Horn. This doesn't seem terribly idiomatic, but I like the sound. Has anyone seen something similar in the lit? I don't want to stress the horn players too much.
Samuel Fisher
So why do you guys hate Chopin?
Alexander Clark
Vasily Kalinnikov
Christian Russell
you can have brass and woodwind players sustain indefinitely in an ensemble - they just stagger their breathing.
Ethan Sanders
We don't hate him, we just don't rate him that highly. He's pretty important for Romantic-era solo piano music, but that's about it.
Logan Campbell
The real questio is why do we underrate Handel
Christopher Evans
Is just Memes, if you lurk enough you will see chopin is actually one of the most posted composers here
Most people can't into Baroque outside of Bach here ""le it sounds gay"""' is their excuse
Tips on fixing my left wrist on the violin? I've been playing for almost 2 years but developed the shitty habit of hiding my wrist behind the violin arm when I get to play on the E string because it feels more comfortable. It's not the pizza hand. Is more like I do a 45 degree with my hand from the wrist to reach the notes. I do fine in all the other strings but that one is what fucks my vibrato learning the most. sounds like shit and I can't seem to stop it.
Mason Diaz
Which works will be performed?
Owen Diaz
A string quartet is performing, two modern works and Dvorak's 13th quartet.
Oliver Thompson
Sometimes
John Roberts
Tell us how it has been when you finish. I have funny stories too
Talk about what? Him wanting our anonymous assurances that he's le epic postmodern composer for mixing a few shitty genres and sounds together without even posting a link? Count me the fuck in, sounds exciting.
Noah Phillips
Just fuck off with your """""(((((("''"((((((((""""((music))"""""))))))))"""")))))))"""""
Listened Bruckner's seventh by a friend recommendation. Now I'm a full blown postromantic lover
Easton Johnson
Bruckner is not postromantic. He's about as romantic as it gets. Sibelius is postromantic.
Nicholas Morgan
Have you listened his seventh? It is as chromatic as Wagner's or early Mahler's music
Benjamin Turner
yeah, neither Wagner nor Mahler are postromantic either. Okay maybe Mahler but not until his 8th. I've heard all of Bruckner's symphonies. They are some of the best in the repertoire.
David Ward
So? Did you fall for the nonsensical and whiggish emancipation of dissonance meme?
Colton Davis
a bit of good music ... you don't have it? ... oh well
If Bruckner was so good, why did he died? ATHEISTS ANSWER THIS
Ryder Jackson
>until his eight I thought once we reached a consensus in which we could consider Mahler as a postromantic after 1900. Especially considering that most people consider Richard Strauss as a postromantic after his thus spoke zarathustra from 1896.
Levi Rodriguez
No, most people consider Strauss postromantic after Salome.
Kekel at this guy, i wish Schoenbabes here were this humble And I also hear what he talks about The ashes of tonality (he called it "shadows") in Schoenberg Violin Concerti are definitely there and even more so in the piano Concerti
It is well know that i can barely talk and write in engl*ish since is not my native language dont expect me to know this concerti shit, is it in italian or some shit?
trying to pick between remastered versions of furtwangler's performances of the 9th in 42, 51 and 54 to buy and really can't decide. which is your favorite /classical/
It would just be like you and me and the odd shithead from /prod/. It's always low post count, just a matter of someone making the thread.
If you want a place to discuss compositions / composition: discord.gg/sjpwcjv
Isaac Ramirez
Field really is based. Its like if Chopin wasn't trying to show off, and just went for pure beauty.
Camden Wilson
'42 > '54 >>> '51 Honestly though I don't really listen to Furt in the 9th too much. For that era I would rather just listen to Mengelberg who is more virtuoistic and in better sound quality. Also, I wouldn't bother with Pristine. They're quite bad most of the time, and I especially remember their '42 remaster sounding horrendous. That recording is pretty terrible soundwise either due to tape deterioration or something else so most remasters just sound like putting lipstick on a pig to me. Also the ambient stereo shit is a total meme.
Mason King
A lot of people change the angle of the violin as they play to accomodate this. Probably your posture is too stiff in general, you do not need to stay in one position all the time
Jaxson Long
i could honestly live with a '42 recording that dealt with all the couging, specifically in presto, even if the sonics were still shit. that's what ruins '42 for me. '54 sounds good on pristine and tahra though. thhanks for your input guess i won't go for pristine's '42, was one that looked good but couldn't find a torrent for
Aiden Nelson
yeah but the /prod/ shitheads will at least have an interest in composing. Like that one dude that wanted to make big band music. I've been waiting for him to show up, to show him the pastiche I made.
Jonathan Long
How is it any more pertinent to post my shitty compositions here than in /classical/?
Ethan Hughes
Big band music eh - you'd need some good sample libraries to pull that off. I would be interested to hear a pastiche - post it in the discord, because /classical/ don't really into this kinda stuff. I'd like to write a Benny Goodman-esque track someday, would be a fun challenge.
Parker Martinez
Shitty indeed
Camden Hernandez
they are good for not classical though.
Kevin Lopez
well its an 'academic music' server, focusing mostly on classical music. Most people there have classical training. Shitty compositions wouldn't be out of place their either - quite a few less experienced composers.
William Walker
It is too stiff. One of the things I'm trying to fix as well. For one I'm just growing out of squeezing my left hand too. Thanks for the tip.
Nicholas Powell
I'm just a guy trying to figure out shit on my own with no academic background in music or any training on an instrument. And right now I can't make classical music, except for study fugues and part writing exercises. I would like to transition into serious compositions but right now I'm slumming it in electronic and incidental music (without the incidence though).
