I don't like 8-bit-music-theory much though, not because he gives false information, but because he has no feeling of what a composer does intentionally and what he does unintentionally which is a pivotal aspect in musical analysis.
Dylan Russell
I don't like 8bit music theory because his channel has a gimmicky and stupid concept. Most of the stuff he analyzes isn't even musically interesting, least of all where regards the theme of the video.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I WANT MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING TOO!!!!!!!!!!
Chase Cook
*ahem* FUCK j*ws
Alexander Hill
to be fair and by all criticism, his videos seem to be a lot of work and, again, he doesn't give false information. The problem is, a lot of stuff that goes on musically in the stuff he analyses is part of the style of the composer. However, 8-bit always tries to sell it as techniques to evoke a certain effect which just isn't true and makes a lot of his videos unwatchable
Joshua Brooks
can you give examples pls
Ian White
his videos are often labeled as "how ... uses ... to make music sound ..." and I think that's not how analysis should work. It gets to the topic from the wrong side. 1) the impression one gets from certain music should be already developed before analysing something and the deductions you get from that should be your own business. A good analysis (maybe except for some personal notes on the way) should imho focus on the pure musical aspects; 2) this approach neglects the fact that our musical vocabulary is built by examples of how musical devices got used in the past. Musical devices transport rarely a certain emotion on their own. But according to 8-bit chromaticism either sounds 'funny' or 'creepy' or chromatic mediants sound 'heroic'. This might be true, but the videos focus so much on the illusion that composers use these techniques to evoke a certain atmosphere which is in my opinion not true and also not relevant. I wonder how 8-bit would analyse a Bach fugue when there's no extra-musical intention he could cling to.
is your link part of the question? It might be true because certain musical devices tend to transport a certain emotion, but that should just not be the focus of an analysis. 8-bit wastes so much time on that..! There are often so many interesting aspects of the music sample he skips, either because he doesn't notice or because he rather uses the time to point out what effect it has on the listener... which the listeners already figured out themselves
Austin Thomas
>Is that why Bach sounds so boring the more absolute music is, the more you have to find your own associations to give the music value. Maybe your first reaction to that empty canvas is that it sounds boring
Ethan Harris
I'm saying chromaticism is used all the time in a way that is neither funny nor creepy.
Owen Nguyen
What kind of other aspects do you have in mind? I know nothing of theory and as far as I know every aspect of music is chosen with the intent of making the listener feel something specific
Adam Williams
No, that's because you have an instance of maximal density where your brain is supposed to be.
>I know every aspect of music is chosen with the intent of making the listener feel something specific that's not always true. Often a musical device means something to the composer, but it can mean something completely different for the listener. In music for video games and movies it might be true that composers have a vocabulary to evoke certain emotions or to illustrate the story, but that should be more part of the film theory. If you want to analyse the music you're normally already aware of what the music evokes. If I read an analysis of a fugue or a sonata I want only to get pointed out pure musical relations within the piece. To connect them with the emotions I already know they evoke is educating and fun to do. 8-Bit skips this almost exclusively except for a few notes on the side. I think it should be the other way round. I know that this style is more appealing to non-musical audience, but it's too bland for my taste and I don't even want to sound arrogant. I just can't watch his videos because he wastes the time with pointing out what the composers' intention with some musical idea was, when this is the most irrelevant thing you could talk about.
that's my point
William Myers
why did you say "that might be true" then?
Jackson Powell
>pure musical relations within the piece But I don't understand what you mean by that. Wouldn't all musical relations be connected to emotions? What other kind of "dry" relation are there?
Blake Ward
becaue it might be true that an ascending chromatic line sounds sad and the composer wanted it to sound sad. That's reducing the music to the most obvious aspect and you could finish talking about it literally after the one sentence with which I described it. It would be much more interesting to watch a video that analyses all Kakariko songs or all SNES Super Mario songs instead of "why sounds Mario music funny?!" btw some 8-bit videos even do that, like when he analyses all Zelda overworld themes, and some of his videos are really enjoyable. I just don't like to waste my time with pseudo-academic music analysis that throws around technical terms but in the end touches only the most superficial aspects of the music. Maybe video game music is too simplistic for such analysises to begin with, idk. I like arrangements like this one
that's how a good analysis works. It substracts anything subjectiv (as far as possible) and analyses the quantifyiable parts. In a fugue analysis that would mean seperating the motifs of which the theme consists, finding relations between the dux, comes and counterpoints to each other and to the basic motif and theme, how the entrances are structures, if there are strettos, pedal etc. You can fill pages with it and it is fun to read if you already know the piece and already connect it to a certain emotion. There's no need to lose a single word for example to describe that this stretto sounds 'very sad' or whatever. Same goes with Beethoven sonatas, maybe even more so because almost everybody has an emotional response to them while they still can be seperated in their functional pieces quite easily. Try it yourself, look up an analysis of a classical piece you like.
No! Bad user! Bad Bad! *wields rolled up newspaper*
Jackson Harris
Because I prefer older styles of performance practice insofar as certain repertoire is concerned. Also, even though recording technology is indeed better these days, I would posit that we've been seeing diminishing returns in that area ever since stereo became common place (1950s). In some cases, like with Mercury, they did a better job than most modern engineers and their work still sounds pretty great. And of course audiophiles like to fawn over the Culshaw-era of Decca the most, what with their coarse but immediate sound and the multi-miking which highlights parts of the orchestra that you would never hear.
and Mozart stole it from Schobert. Jahn shows in his Mozart biography that it was a cliche theme lots of composers used.. dude, that wasn't the romantic era were a theme had to be personal. A theme for Beethoven is only material to derive his ideas from.
Brayden Thompson
I was in the middle of typing an angry response but holy shit you're right.
True but Culshaw worked with a lot of conductors, including Furtwangler and Knappertsbusch. Though his experience with Furtwangler was a pretty bad one.
Honestly sometimes I find myself wondering how much of Solti's crass sense of balance was himself and how much of it was Culshaw. Because Culshaw was very much a wannabe conductor.
Bentley Lewis
Not me. I'm trying to reverse the tide of the Beethoven underrating that I started.
Berlioz I already listened in order; Les Troyens Symphonie FantastiKEK Romeo Juliet Symphonie funebre et triumphale
Berlioz to check in the future; Requiem Damnation of Faust
Only then I'll be done with this frenchiecuck I'm liking his unique forms like Symphonic hybrids with opera and choral sacred music, sometimes it can get a little gimmickery though Another thing I like about him is how he can sound like a classical era composer sometimes and also go full late Romantic firetrucker when is needed
Baremboim is pretty meh conductor in my opinion. Colin Davis is pretty good actually and on Abbado I haven't heard him conducting that work so no idea.
Evan Evans
>Baremboim is pretty meh conductor in my opinion. And pianist too.
Colton James
Barenboim in Proms 2012 was pure kino. He's the master of interpreting Beethoven, though not much else I'm afraid.
Brody Rodriguez
As a pianist I disagree, I once heard his interpretation of the Sonata No.1 and I found it pretty good compared to most of the other recordings, which played it like if it was a childish piece
Elijah Cruz
yeah, his masterclasses on Beethoven's piano sonatas are on youtube and I find them quite interesting
Just got back from a performance of Brahms 1. There was one of those gay Indigenous Land Acknowledgements from an oboist of all things. Also the codnuctor had the orchestra arranged in a rather ridiculous way. Basically, timpanist smack in the middle, brass divided into the very back corners, elevated platforms with a single violist and single violinist on either side. He seemed like kind of a douche. Speaking of being a douche, I got a Mahler bumper sticker that I've affixed to my car ironically.
Parker Young
There's a lot of versions I'm fond of but by far the one with the best chorus work is Kegel's recording. How was the performance though I'm super picky about Brahms 1, most performances unfortunately bore me.
Luis Robinson
It wasn't great, serviceable, but what can you expect from a small city's philharmonic.
Aiden Richardson
bump
Michael Rivera
>Sanctus based. credo and lacrimosa too
Camden Anderson
Because it takes the part of music that sounds good and specifically avoids it
Isaac Cook
Is that based or not
Christopher Reyes
>wahhhh wahhhh bloo blooooo give me tonic dominant ;(
Brody Green
Remember when Schoenberg was like "one day 12 tone music will be the one enjoyed by the people! That will be the music we hear them hum outdoors as they go on about their lives! They will sing it to their children!"
>paying attention to what gould has to say >reposting it for others why? we don't care about Gould's interpretations, let alone what he has to say.
Nathaniel Martinez
thanks for the links I’ll surely listen to all of these
Kayden Lopez
Holy shit WTC is so good. Recommend me recordings please I've no idea who to listen to I've been just sampling different performers
Ethan Lee
Ligeti sucks cock.
Wyatt Johnson
youre mom does
Jason Hill
Because you are psychologically wired to like the music you grew up with (which is most likely purely tonal), while atonal music is the absolute opposite of that, and learning new musical languages usually takes a little understanding, context and an improved listening experience; much like you don't like coffee and alcohol when you are a little kid but if you grow up and improve your tastes, you love it. Okay, maybe a bit off with that analogy, in this case atonality would have to be some sort of really strong and stinky cheese that only a handful of people enjoy but, still, you get the point...
Isaac Torres
With those lips? hnng
Caleb Cox
>looking up sheet music for a piece >all the results are CDs IM WILLING TO PAY MONEY
pic related rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4761588 This guy is one of the supreme Bach interpreters on piano, and its a very modern recording too - his second time recording the WTC (last time was in the 80s) so he's become even more intimate with the character of each piece since then.
>Have you tried imslp.org? composer isnt in public domain lad
Ethan Flores
Fuck off Poly
Thomas Thomas
t. seething nihilist cretins
Adam Collins
If Nietzsche knowed about Mahler, he would hate him even more than Wagner because he represents the nihilistic side of romanticism and the adoration of the death and religious fantaisies
Ryder Lewis
Based and redpilled.
Cringe and bluepilled.
Ethan Butler
Thank you for this user
Asher Ross
>nihilistic So this is the new buzzword you tasteless dumbasses are using now, huh?
Kayden Price
Then you're going to have to buy the score, or go to a library that has a good score collection (like a university or music college) and scan / photocopy it illegally.
Jonathan Price
Nice ad hominem faggot
Cooper Jenkins
t. Nihilist post-Modernist Cretin
Aaron Cruz
see
Dominic Gutierrez
>Nietzsche That incel is not an authority on music
Xavier Richardson
Yeah, he just influenced directly wagner and a lot of postromantic and modernists composers indirectly
He's a great authority on taste though. Speaking of philosophers, Wagner was mostly influenced by Hegel and earlier romantics, not Schopenhauer and Nietzsche.
Asher Howard
>not Schopenhauer >implying it wasn't Schopenhauer's idealistic view on music as a transcendental act or Kunstreligion that shaped Wagner's music the most
Aiden Jackson
I bet you believe in free will fag
Gabriel Howard
Nietzsche is the last authority on anything you should want to check out and one of the most pathetic men to ever live
Austin Martinez
>Wagner was mostly influenced by Hegel and earlier romantics, not Schopenhauer Wagner literally worshipped Schopenhauer and read the World as Will and Representation over 10 times.
Hunter Flores
At least not as pathetic as Marx
Nolan Reed
Free will is a fact even in a deterministic universe
Jackson Gray
Lmao being deterministic is the most pathetic thing ever. Always blaming other things but not yourself of your coinditions
Jace Peterson
I agree with you but I think that what you mean is actually fatalism, not determinism.
Lucas Baker
>ad hominem Determinism and free will are mutually exclusive. Reminder Nietzsche didn't even believe in free will himself by the way.
Does anyone get bored of Bach after a while? Like, the technicality and complexity is impressive at first. But his stuff just doesn't feel that expressive. So much of it is also rhythmically straightforward that it feels a bit stale except the occasional nested rhythms or if you got someone like Angela Hewitt on the piano who dynamically shifts tempo to give the works more life.
Jeremiah Johnson
>being impressed by music
Aaron Robinson
>Determinism and free will are mutually exclusive. Even in a deterministic universe your decisions are still a byproduct of your brain in reaction to the outer world, so they still are a consequence of your will
Zachary Jenkins
But they aren't free.
Michael Reyes
The main problem with Bach imo is that his output is really inteligent music that always requires a lot of concentration to be listened to, so it can become tiresome after a while. I like Hewitt too but I’m not really fond of tempo shifts in Bach interpretations overall
Jose Long
That's why baroquefags are a bunch of pseuds
Jack Reed
They aren’t nondeterministic, which means that they are not casual
Bentley Carter
Bach is very different from other baroque composers tho
I think I feel this more for Bach's output in regards to tracking exact harmonic progressions as individual melodies often become much easier to track as individually, each line is far more straightforward than one might expect.
A lot of his stuff is fugal as well. So like, their being like four (or five? been a while) separate vocal parts in Mass In B Minor, they are all fugal and follow that same pattern one after the other. Bach wasn't the only dude doing counterpoint at his time, nor using fancy chords. One of the Mega links about has one of her performances for Bach.
Joshua Butler
You can find a lot of her interpretations on YouTube tho
Benjamin White
>pentatonic-type >tonic major third >dominant fifth Can someone translate pelase I'm deaf
>Nietzsche is the last authority on anything you should want to check out and one of the most pathetic men to ever live Truly repulsive, I'd say. He was a brilliant once-in-a-millennium philologist at the very least, no matter what bizarre idea about him one may form. >implying it wasn't Schopenhauer's idealistic view on music as a transcendental act Certainly not, Hegel was a much more massive figure of that time especially for young bourgeois revolutionary Germans like Wagner. As Nietzsche put it, one can discern Hegel's speculations in Wagner's harmony. Schopenhauer was the spiritus sanctus of their era, but God the Father resided in another lecture room.
Ayden Carter
Recommend me some violent piano pieces. I really enjoy Scriabin, Prokofiev and Rachmaninoff.
Noah Cooper
>repulsive >bourgeois >spiritus sanctus >God the Father
excuse me? And by the way, I would say Feuerbach was God the Son of Wagner, an overlooked link in his philosophical development from the young bourgeois revolutionary to a self-reflecting late romantic at odds with the Hegelian system and earlier optimism.
Isaac Williams
In defense of Mozart, I would say that he left his Requiem unfinished
Landon Watson
What is the best set of piano preludes of the XX century?
I had a question for the Anons here. I always though that there was something in Bach's Siciliano from the Flute Sonata BWV 1031 (E-Flat Major) that had some kind of late classical-romantic feeling to it. I don't know if it's the atmosphere, something in those arpeggio's harmony, but it's just a feeling I've had for long. I can't say why, though, as I'm completely illiterate on that regard. Am I completely off the mark? youtu.be/tglNMNQ1mGw?t=240
Ethan Gomez
That's the second movement of the Requiem, that one is completely done by him. And he did direct the Messiah, he even adapted it to German to be performed in Vienna. So he was much aware of it.
Need to give this several listens. Brilliant themes and climaxes. Cool as fuck. Believe it or not, I've heard all these except for Bartok - The Chase and the De Falla-pieces. Will check them out. I love almost every Liszt-work.
This will be a challenge. Thank you. Exactly what I'm looking for. I already love the first etude, intense stuff.
Never heard about the book you are linking to, what is it about?
Sebastian Jenkins
It's a encyclopedia/overview on all the most important composers and pieces in the history of keyboard/piano music. It's really in depth because it's a two ~500 volumes tome. I bought it as a teenager and it really jump-started my knowledge of solo piano music. It's the reason why I wasn't that surprised that you already knew all these piano pieces.
Cool, that sounds like an essential read, too bad I can't understand french. I've played piano all my life and am about to become a boomer, that's why I've heard a lot of those pieces. I'm always searching for something dramatic and breathtaking, like Prokofiev's second piano concerto for example. I really appreciate the recommendations I got here. Good general you guys got going on.
Thomas Price
I got through them all now, loving it. Good stuff.
Sebastian Harris
I just took a look around and I found it in french, spanish and italian.
Benjamin Watson
Too bad, I'm from Norway, which means I only know Swedish, English and pretend to know Danish. Is there a list of some sort? It would be nice to know what pieces to check out.
Thomas Sullivan
It has an analytical index that's several pages long, but I could scan it if you can wait a bit. It could also be put in a folder for future /classical/lurkers.
Thomas Hill
Thank you, I would really appreciate that.
Nathaniel Peterson
I started scanning but it will take a while.
Isaiah Jenkins
Looking forward to it.
Charles Hall
He's one of the better contemporary composers that I've heard.
I've listened to it, but never the whole thing in one sitting. That piece almost scared me when I was younger. Just imagine having to dedicate a huge portion of your life to this thing.
Jonathan Young
Give me some cool Beethoven that I haven't listened to before.
You're welcome. Also give a try at searching in one of the languages you know "tranchefort listening guide for piano and harpsichord music", maybe it was translated in some other languages that I don't know.
Luke Fisher
I can't find anything, honestly. But the scans you provided will be more than enough for me anyway.
Benjamin Peterson
I created a Mega folder in case the /classical/ threads creator(s) wants to share it in the next original post
