ICP was legitimately ahead of it's time. They had an aesthetic that was super alternative and very punk. Now that artists like Danny Brown and $UICIDEBOY$ are becoming popular, if "The Great Milenko" dropped today it would be more socially accepted. I'm not saying that it would get good reviews, but they certainly wouldn't be on any worst bands of all time lists.
The reason that ICP is so hated is because most people were just too stupid to tell how self-aware they are. There's no way someone can listen to a song like "The Neden Game" and think "how can anybody take this seriously?" unless they completely missed the point. Sure they have songs about serious topics, but those come off more "punk" than "tryhard" (at least on their first five albums).
Sure many of their fans take it too seriously (obviously), but ICP themselves certainly didn't.
Something happened after their "Jeckel Brothers" album that made them say "it was about god all along", which made them make stuff like "Miracles". I think they're full of shit and don't know what made them have a change of heart, so I'm talking about everything that happened before that.
I'm not even a juggalo (milenko is the only album I can sit through) but even I can see what they were doing, and it went over heads of 90's america.
ICP is not alone, everyone and their brother rips off Three 6 Mafia too and Bone Thugs too in rap. Ripping off 90s rap is the thing now and the fanbase is too fucking stupid to recognize it. It makes me sick, anytime I think the metal crowd is embarrassing, which it is, I just think about the modern rap crowd who think they're original and don't even know wtf they are doing. At least the metal scene is fully aware they're all copy cats.
Also on the topic of just ICP, they are geniuses creatively. Their whole "Dark Carnival" narrative doesn't always make a lick of sense, but the fact that they pulled it off is amazing. The whole thing from the start was a morality tale, with the first album being the most outright violent and evil and slowly putting in messages of doing the right thing and punishing those who don't, turning from villains to anti heroes to heroes, it's brilliant. They probably didn't plan this from the start, but does that matter? If anything, it's even more magical that way, because maybe some force out there was really speaking through them, it only works to their benefit anyway to say they didn't plan it. That truly makes them pawns of whatever force "The Dark Carnival" is
Eli Rogers
>Something happened after their "Jeckel Brothers" I think they started taking themselves seriously.
Sebastian Martinez
ICP hate comes down to one thing, classism. It's okay to hate poor whites, so that's who they take their anger out on.
Everyone who hates ICP is either an upper middle class or upper class white, or lower one who wants to believe they are above them, but really aren't, and grew up the exact same way drinking cheap soda and off brand foods but want to pretend they are different instead of embracing it like ICP did.
Connor Robinson
Exactly. I really think one of them just became a born-again christian and then their career went downhill from there
You make a good point about how brilliantly the dark carnival story fell together, even if the carnival being god made them lose their "horror clown punk rap" appeal (which coincidentally is when Violent J lost his clown voice? I think, like I said I've only listened to one album all the way through.)
Joshua Diaz
The Violent J voice is a mystery...I used to think it had to do with his weight, but I actually think now that it has to do with a sense of pride. I think for whatever reason, he decided trying to use a more "real" voice would be more credible as a rapper as compared to his old voice, which was basically a cartoon voice. But desu that's missing the whole point of ICP, people don't listen to ICP to hear "real rappers", they want wicked clowns, and they aren't great rappers to begin with and J's modern voice just sounds like a breathy fat guy.
Juan Powell
I sat down and started listening to them this past September, so while I'm a little late on the draw, I think I have ideas that are decently removed from the whole thing. My impression is that Jekyl itself was super different, embodying a sense of legitimate anger not seen on previous albums. This could probably be attributed to 1. The nonsense with Hollywood records and Milenko, which J said was supposed to be their magnum opus 2. Feeling confined and away from Psychopathic Records, their brain child and Camelot 3. The pressures of finally being listened to, having gone Platinum and achieving international recognition, and figuring out how to transfer their love of community to a global stage.
Honestly, The Wraith has become one of my favorite ICP albums, because you can really hear their exhaustion. J was frickin' 30 now. The high-pitched goofy and stupid clown voice finally embraced its midwest heft. They had recently established the Gathering and wanted to take it easy on the public image. As a result, while manic and nasty and desperate, The Wraith feels like the most genuine expression of their actual selves. It was their first album that didnt really appropriate popular hip hop trends of the time. I always love how, at the end of it, through all the exhaustion, they scream "we're not sorry if we tricked you," almost like the final message is really to tell the Juggalos that they need some space. The little clown voice saying "always remember to fuck off" reinforces that.
Aiden Thompson
i will never not laugh at the fact that one of them calls themselves SHAGGY 2 DOPE
How is that any funnier than any rapper names though? Juicy J, Too Short, Snoop Doggy Dogg, XXXTENTACLEPORN, what's so funny about it?
Anthony Bennett
this isn't true dude their music was seriously cringey and all their fans smelled like piss and were obnoxious. we were all poor in my town growing up and we all knew it. Nobody was using the poverty of Juggalos as a primary justification of disdain.
Mason Myers
I mean you could give me examples as to how Juggalo music was cringey, and you could tell me what you were listening to at the same time
Nolan Cox
the clown voices and cartoon sound effects made it embarrassing even as a 13 year old. At that time I was listening to Black Sabbath and King Crimson and Metallica but what does my middle school taste have to do with the original point you made that people only hated juggalos because of classicism?
Aiden Miller
Because I was planning on making fun of your music, but aside from King Crimson being pussy nerd rock I was into the same shit.
That being said, as a metalhead, if you dressed the part, you went through the same shit Juggalos did. Labelled a satan worshipper/white trash because you wore black shirts with scary images by the popular kids.
Jordan Young
Even if that's true the main point being argued here (that youre now ignoring) is your original statement saying juggalo hate was classicism. Its wasn't and you havent said anything in response to my first reply. Youre just making ad hominem attempts and failing at that even.
Hunter Hughes
Juggalo hate is classism. 9 times out of 10, the only actual reason is "they're white trash"
You clearly don't listen to horrorcore, so you can't speak on why their music is bad. You claim it's bad because of cartoon effects, Eminemt used the same style. If you say Eminem sucks, you're a fucking zoomer.
Jose Reed
it's a pretty silly combination of words, imo
Zachary Stewart
it's not classism. it's laughably bad music with an easy to make fun of audience. so many other meme artists out there being made fun of. whether it's kenny g and old ladies and soccer moms. or jimmy buffett and drunk/swinging parrotheads. or icp and you icp hate comes from obnoxious fans, deal with it
Leo Kelly
not the guy you're arguing with but your comment is some high horse shit
Alexander Jackson
Dude you need to learn (and apply) argumentation because your logic is bullshit lol
Michael Moore
I was in high school when Milenko dropped and had an embarrassing ICP phase, although I never wore face paint or anything. I don't listen to them anymore but can still go back to certain things and really enjoy them. imo the absolute best of ICP is: The first set of joker cards up until the dark lotus or whatever the initial final one was, especially Ringmaster (really great album), the Tunnel of Love ep is really good, their home wrestling tape Stranglemania is hilarious, their first movie Big Money Hustlas is still unironically funny and on youtube, and every appearance they made on loveline is worth listening to.
Caleb Sanders
Fuck white pppl
Andrew Wright
Not really. ICP have some top tier production and music within the horrorcore genre. It's why they became the most well known artist of said genre and have a worldwide fanbase at this point.
James Hughes
No, I think icp were very of their time. It just worked out that their time came around again
Jacob Cook
>music was seriously cringey This is criticism is a joke when talking about anything rap.
Elijah Russell
>the clown voices and cartoon sound effects made it embarrassing even as a 13 year old
100% true imo, you can even find interviews with Danny Brown talking about how much he respects and loves ICP. He talks about going to the gathering all the time.
>Three 6 Mafia >Bone Thugs This. I would say more so people try to rip off A$AP Rocky who bit his shit from SpaceGhostPurrp who was clearly VERY influenced by Three 6 and Bone Thugs (and most Memphis rap to be fair).
