"It's enriching", they said. "It'll improve your understanding of music and allow you to compose more complex music", they said. "You'll hit a wall without it", they said.
Nine fucking years of guitar and piano playing down the fucking drain. All ruined by music theory. Can't play a single fucking thing now, can't fit ideas into the rigid framework of the music notation system, all creativity gone, mind permanently wrecked. Need some mind detergent to get out the stain of music theory, it's like shit smeared all over my mind. Too late in life to rebuild from here, can't figure out how anyone manages to make use of this. You've gotta have it drilled into you from birth in order to have any chance. Everything they say about music theory destroying all musical ability and creativity is true. It's like getting a sex change operation and expecting your new pussy or cock to be good. Don't ever fall for this fucking shit, it'll ruin music for you and you'll have to give it up.
Change your mindset. It's not a framework, it's a set of tools
Carson Fisher
Prob just need to learn more theory.
Leo Williams
LARP detected
Jeremiah Johnson
Guaranteed had zero creativity in the first place
Joseph Gutierrez
>tfw learned theory and don't even think about it unless i get stuck when i'm working on something >brain literally makes it a point to ignore it unless i call upon it
every big popular musician has been instructed by just listening to music, they could've had a lessons here and there but for the most part is just "ear" and having a natural talent for rhythm
if dominating music theory was the key to succes every music student would become a popular musician....that is not the case and in fact the contrary is what we see in real life.
Christian Gonzalez
It's a steel cage for your soul.
Tyler Watson
>that guy who says he “knows music theory” >has memorized most major and minor triads >knows a few major scales (has to sound the rest of them out) >sort of understands major and dominant seventh chords >that’s actually all the theory he “knows” every fucking time
>It's like getting a sex change operation and expecting your new pussy or cock to be good. Such a good analogy. Sorry for your loss, OP.
Andrew Davis
>It's like getting a sex change operation and expecting your new pussy or cock to be good.
not really, its more like buying wheels for a car without even having one, you need to be creative to write good music, theory will only help you if you are already a creative as fuck person
Eli Ward
LMAAAOOOOOO
Kevin Miller
You need to kind of work on your own brand of music theory guy
Joshua Davis
Why are you pretending to do things you didn't do?
most anti-theory fags were playing shitty boring things, but because they personally didnt understand what they were doing, it must be mysterious and creative.
Jaxson Price
>Everything they say about music theory destroying all musical ability and creativity is true. It's like getting a sex change operation and expecting your new pussy or cock to be good. lol what a fucking stupid analogy.
Way to go retard.
Jason Lopez
Did you and me learn the same music theory bud? Everything you say you were promised is true for me
that only means you either haven't really learned music theory and its uses yet or were never really creative to begin with >every big popular musician has been instructed by just listening to music this is bullshit. >if dominating music theory was the key to succes every music student would become a popular musician.... but no one is arguing that
Justin Flores
This
Isaiah Davis
OP, go swallow a bunch of pain pills.
Fucking based
Logan Hall
well post your 12 tone tune for the class then
Jose Martin
This lmao. OP is a fucking retard.
Landon Russell
Love when I go to jam with new people and ask them to play a simple 1 4 5 progression and they look at me like I'm retarded and say "sorry man I don't use music theory, I don't want to limit my creativity with rules". So they play an E power chord for an hour and let their creative juices really flow!
Levi Davis
Would’ve taken about 5 minutes to explain. Maybe you’re just being a cunt?
Samuel Harris
Just start doing drugs to compose
Evan Davis
>mfw learn music theory >whole new dimensions of understanding the music from an analytical and structural point of view, now can see how all the pieces fit together and the intricacies involved >understand how different tempered systems and compositional tools work; from medieval music to classical era to the modern eras >call upon it when I need it (for this better inside understanding or my own fun at trying to compose music for myself) >enriched musical listening experience ahhhh...
I've tried to do that when I bit the bullet and formed a duet with a guitarist who's been playing longer than I have. A month in he dumped me to play The Offspring covers with his buddies.
Elijah Wright
you clearly underestimate the power of triads
Nathaniel Hernandez
Great bait honestly
Jonathan Green
Learning theory revealed to me how good or bad were my musical ideas, some were pretty lame, but others held their own when analyzed theoretically.
Anyone who says that theory has limited their creativity is really saying "theory has made me dislike the stupid shit that I wrote but I'm too dumb to recognize it, so I'll just say I'm not as creative as I used to be"
Nolan Allen
is weed enough?
Colton Gutierrez
Playing music is for children Grow up and get a big boy hobby
Ethan Bennett
What book did you use to learn?
Jackson Russell
Yea, when I take a couple hits and start playing it’s like I’m instantly transported into something itd normally take me like an hour to come up with. It’s great
Tyler Gonzalez
it's just an illusion
Justin Gray
Kind of. Stuff that wouldn't normally catch your ear or sound good, will sound better. That can help though, like shutting off your inner critic
Henry Wood
It's not music theory's fault you're low IQ and low creativity, and I say this as someone with only basic knowledge of theory
Music theory is just a theory, just like evolution. It still relies on belief and not knowledge.
Ryder Price
12 tone is easier to compose than a classical sonata
Jaxson Richardson
you were always bad, just under the delusion that your music is good. learning theory set you free from that delusion, and now that you notice all the flaws in your musicianship you blame the theory? how self-centered also this
Nathan Walker
yeah I think you'll right. It's good to make a long jam and cut out the good parts
Jose Martin
Music theory is racist
Jackson Taylor
I started with online stuff but the internet can be a double-edged sword (lots of good information but also a load of bullshit and badly (too complicated) written; and when you don't know much about the topic you can't filter out what is good and what is bad). Then I went to a few music theory classes but the first one was lame, but the second one I got lucky with a really nice (and hot) teacher that completely changed the way I thought about music theory. Then I proceeded taking classes and read some theory books (in my native language, not English so I can't help you there) and some other literature (like the history of baroque music from Monteverdi to Bach, again in my native language; but I also read an English one about 20th century music by Alex Ross called The Rest Is Noise).
Liam Clark
Yeah it shows. That's why their careers lasted 15 years at best. George Martin knew theory though.
This is pretty much the argument theoryless brainlets have. It's like people who don't read books or can't even spell telling educated people that they're stupid and their worldview is limited or some shit lmao
lol no. Try composing a tonal mostly tonic-dominant chord progression classical sonata with simple 4+4 or 8+8 periodic forms and some motivic development, then try composing a 12 tone piece using all of Schoenberg's rules and not fucking up a million times in the process and scratching your head and then come back.
Thomas Sanchez
I'd like to see either of you compose either, I bet you guys both make some stock music sounding shit The pro (pop) musicians I've spoken to don't know theory. Theory definitely has its place, but you guys absolutely overestimate its necessity in the pop world
Hunter Jackson
I can't compose because I've never tried and I doubt I can do anything pleasant or relevant (it's just not my expertise), I can only play music, analyse it and educate myself. But to say 12 tone is easier than a classical sonata is bullshit.
>you guys absolutely overestimate its necessity in the pop world Wrong. Where did you get this from? I don't estimate it at all in the pop world. It's not relevant there unless you're trying to describe how the same 3 chords that are in a million different songs are used slightly differently. That's a bit boring and pointless. The only description relevant in pop music is music production (which I would argue is also music theory because you are actually describing a compositional process) or some societal dimension. And I don't give two shits about pop music or the industry.
real musicians don't need to take classes or read books to understand music. only tryhards and tone deaf faggots do... name ONE famous musician who needed theory to "wrap their head" around playing music. if robert johnson and son house didn't need that shit then neither do you
>theory >for a discipline that is not epistemological in nature
You all fucking fail at life, losers
Easton Thompson
That's like saying you forgot how to talk because you learned to read.
Jacob Peterson
>all these SEETHING theorylets itt lole
Nah, I'll be taking the word of my boy Edddy as gospel thank you very much >"There are no rules. I think it's funny when people take all these music theory classes, it's exactly that. It's theory. You have 12 fucking notes, the 13th one is the octave, do whatever you want with them. It's really that simple. There are no mistakes!" - EVH
Now keep in mind he's generally considered a modern day Mozart among music aficionados and there you go. Plus he's got all the fame, money, and women to back his statement up so... yeah. Theorylets btfo
if true, by now your ear should be trained enough to recognize most chords without much effort so you can mix and match just by ear alone
Xavier James
>real musicians don't need to take classes or read books to understand music Objectively wrong. muh feels is not understanding music. Reals > feels. Deal with it, brainlet.
>only tryhards and tone deaf faggots do Nice projection.
>name ONE famous musician who needed theory to "wrap their head" around playing music Literally every classical musician in the history of mankind. Now sit down.
>generally considered a modern day Mozart among music aficionados W E W
Xavier Barnes
>Be succesful musician >Build up some self taught prodigy myth for legacy reasons >Family is usually musical and kid went to music school
Brandon Adams
Robert Johnson and Son House had teachers, too. If you think theory comes just from books and academia, you're wrong. Oral tradition and sincretism are vaults and sources of knowledge too. In fact, musicians learn a lot more from other musicians better than them than from books, which are only a slight sample of all available knowledge. Even records can count as musical master classes, and they can be theorized one way or the other. People all over the world call the dominant-tonic resolution differently, but that shit definitely exists, it's not some invention of you don't know it, even intuitively, you're not gonna get any worthwhile musician to play with you.
Zachary Ward
that idiot took piano lessons as a kid... he's just too stupid to realize that he was learning theory. He has a good ear which can take you quite far.... in rock & roll, which is like music for babies. I'd like to see that wank playing by ear on a jazz jam
Evan Bell
ok so now you know stuff about baroque and bach and so on. but how does that help you with your modern compositions?
Owen Edwards
The trickiest part in 12 tone pieces is realizing that you can use orchestration to your advantage and have it have shifting melodic lines amongst instruments. That simplifies shit so much.
That fucking piece of shit. Soulless garbage music.
Levi Taylor
Notice how most if not all of his music videos only show him, playing all the instruments. Because that's what his music is about. Not any kind of artistic expression. It's about him, being good at music. God I hate this guy.
Cameron Hill
pretty much this. But not too much on your first go.
Michael Flores
this
Cameron Price
"You and I" and "Hideaway" are legitimately good tho.
William Lewis
In reality ofc none of this actually happened, but nice anecdote I guess... Now just go learn some theory it's not that scary.
Christian Barnes
Not it’s fucking not. Learning about WHY things sound good and HOW to make things sound that way is actually freeing. You actually become MORE creative, because so much of your effort isn’t wasted trying to reinvent the wheel, fix what ended up sounding like shit, or writing tons of stuff with no rhythm or melody. That’s like saying roads and fences are a cage for your soul because you can’t walk anywhere you damn well please, even through swamps, off of cliffs and next to dangerous animals. It’s fucking idiotic. The roads get you where you want to go quickly, efficiently and safely, and the fences keep you from having to worry about getting rekt by the bull in Farmer Jed’s field 120 miles from your home because you didn’t know he was there or to stay away from him.
I've made music using music theory since my first actual songs, that and listening to enough music to be able to get rhythms in my head is useful. It's frustrating as hell to use before you get used to it, but the best thing to do is contextualize what you hear in your head with music theory. Either that or write piles of shit that randomly comply to the rules of music theory until something good comes out.
Asher Ward
I've been playing and "composing" music (mostly electronic stuff) for a couple years now, I've been playing since I was a kid and I still regret not knowing a single shit about music
I can play piano but it's all memory, I can't read a music sheet but I can play bach
it hurts my soul my I just can't read music
Evan King
Stop whining and do something about it. I was the same, still am in many aspects but I'm working really hard to change it. You'd be good surrounding yourself with some real musicians for a kickstart.
Bentley Thompson
i'm just starting to learn music theory now and i'm like "wow, i'm not a musician"
Kevin Reyes
not enough time friendo
I would be happy to become a full time musician but nowadays it has become more a hobby than anything
Easton Wood
hey man at least music theory is pragmatic
Andrew Cooper
I can use elements of what I've learned from old music in (my) new music? Doing basically what the majority of musicians/composers do? You can't exactly do anything extremely new out of the blue.
You're right but I had a solo piano piece in mind. Yet it's still very hard and you need a lot of practice to do it successfully.
Jose Hernandez
>Theory is useless. So you basically reinvent an inferior version of the wheel via years of trial and error, and that's somehow better than just learning how to use a wheel?
Music theory lets you have a decent understanding of what you're doing and can give you more ideas for when you're in a rut. People who insist it's actively bad to know this are just intimidated by the idea of practicing. Theory itself is neutral, it exists in every musician with or without their knowledge. It's like math. And it's rarely only the chord progression and it's not just knowing your major and minor scales and you're done for life. It's a lot of elements at once. It's the gesture. It's the arrangement. It's the development. It's the form, the structure. It's the way the harmony and melody come together. It's the choice of instruments. It's the lyrics, even, and the rhythm, tone, texture and colour. It allows you to reverse engineer things, which is a very useful skill to have. The only way to break the rules knowingly and accordingly is to know all the rules first. This has been proven time and time again by classical composers who analysed works of their predecessors and most of them have been a part of institutionalised education.
The idea that theory could be a negative knowledge comes from a bullshit romantic notion that good art is purely unconscious or emotional and that systematization and logic are antithetical to it. Intuition alone could never result in the monstrous feat of borderline engineering that is a great symphony.
The theories of psychoacoustics, biomusicology and so on indicate that there are certain musical and sound qualities we find pleasing regardless of cultural bias. A trained musician would be much more familiar with these and thus able to subvert and play with them. There's a reason classical music is much, much more interesting than the various folk musics of the world.
Chase Morris
can you post something you've composed? I don't wanna judge you or anything, im just interested in how your music sounds with those influences you learned.
Personally ive never really learned theory, but i had a piano teacher for several years and composed my own stuffs as well.
You talk about classical composers here. Personally i think classical is boring. Why? Because they didnt have electronic instruments back then.
>has been proven by classical composers classical, classical, classical. Innovation is in electronic music, not in the same tired wankery on piano or whatever.
Jayden King
My music is garbage and I won't post it here because I'm ashamed but for example I saw Stravinsky's Rites of Spring and how quickly the time signature and rhythms changed (practically every bar) and I played with that a bit. It sounds godawful in a band though or at least I couldn't make it sound more natural. Then I used some shitty counterpoint ideas from Bach in some of my guitar work (one guitar plays the theme, the other imitates like a canon and so on). The ideas are there, my execute is just garbage because I don't work at it because I'm not born to be a composer or very good musician. I like to study music though and I think I'm good at that.
Ayden Reed
Music theory is a set of guidelines that allow you to reverse engineer your favorite songs so you can make your own ideal songs that you enjoy.
Say you have a favorite song, be it rock, pop, rap, jazz, etc. Music theory will allow you to break down your favorite genres, songs, bands, albums so you can borrow and combine elements you like to create something new.
"Wow, I really love x singer. What types of scales, notes, techniques do they use? Wow, I think I'll experiment with that and see what happens."
" I like this band's drummer and his drum breakdowns. What types of rhythms do they play? Ah, I see. I'll throw that beat in my song and maybe switch some parts to my liking."
" I really love the atmosphere of this track here and how it feels like x emotion. What types of chord progressions do they use? That's pretty neat, I'll use those progressions and see how they fit in my song. And maybe i'll switch these parts up here so it fits better with the rest of my song."
Boom! Before you know it, you've made your own song with practical application of music theory,
Gabriel Carter
Who do you think invented electronic music?
Austin Scott
I talk about musicians and composers. I point out classical composers because their works have the greatest span of variety, complexity, emotion and philosophical ideas. When classical is good, it's the best in my opinion.
>Personally i think classical is boring. Why? Because people who don't read think books are boring. It's going past your head because you don't understand it, most likely. Just like someone who hasn't read since kindergarten trying to read classic novels; it's not gonna work. You can obviously change this though if you try.
>Because they didnt have electronic instruments back thenž Back when? Messiaen used an electronic instrument in his symphony in 1945 and there were earlier cases of certain two French classical composers literally laying down the groundwork for electronic music to even exist and a German one created one of the most early and very influential electronic pieces ever. Not to mention the futurists at the turn of the century in Italy. Electronic practices were born out of classical musicians and composers.
Daniel Walker
ok, thats interesting because you've said you can use Elements from old music in your own. Which seems like you compose some awesome shit, yet youre ashamed of it. I think thats a bit weird sorry. But who knows maybe youre really good and are just afraid to put it out there?
Anyways tell me what you think of my song pls >(inb4 le shill) i just wanna know what you think about my song because i don't know anything about theory, couldnt even tell you the key that song is written in: youtu.be/m-oICMjYlXY
Connor Perry
>t. heard a Mozart piano sonata once and thinks he can talk classical and history Yeah sure buddy.
Connor Anderson
based
Dylan Anderson
does anyone have and recommendations for a good book on music theory? i want something more theoretical, perhaps musicological, not a student book
Daniel Carter
Well not a single person, but lots of persons. Whats your point? Lol
Jace Myers
I'm pretty sure they mean more that the music of classical composers was better than most other music at their time, if a classical composer were given the possibilities we currently have with music and the time to learn modern-day techniques they could likely make good electronic music.
Juan Phillips
See
Oliver Peterson
thog don't caare, still boring lmao
Daniel Cook
Don't take it so hard, just give it all you got, and if you like something you come up with, just share it. If it's good enough for you, it's certainly good enough for sharing. It doesn't have to be finished or perfectly executed for you to share it... don't be a perfectionist either. Perfection needs time, not a single masterpiece was composed in a single session. You need to take some time off an idea and let it sit, then come later to revise it, maybe add or remove things. Most of the works musicians became famous for were ideas that had been wobbling about in their desks for years. They certainly shared them with their colleagues and got feedback from them. Nobody can become their best on their own. We need the teaching, motivation and feedback from our peers. That's my two cents.
My point is that you have no idea what you're talking about. Electronic music has its roots in classical.
Jeremiah Rogers
>yeah dude those boring brainlet "beats" youre listening to, pathetic.
Nathaniel Rodriguez
You can think that, freely. No problem. Just don't act like you know what you're talking about or think you're some sort of authority on the topics at hand. Cheers.
The road to success is paved with failure. Don't be afraid of being shit and your music being shit. As you practice more, your music will progressively get less shittier.
The quickest way to grow is to put your stuff out there and let it get ripped to shreds by critique. Get opinion from the both the expert, who will give you technical advice, and the casual, who will tell you if your song is listenable and enjoyable. Both opinions are important if you're to make music that is good to listen to.
user, either this is ironic or you are more autistic than the rest of us
Connor Nguyen
I can think that classical is boring and I did listen to it yes. Of all those old eras the only music worth listening to is romanticism. Everything else = wank
Charles Martin
yeah or it were just some autists like kraftwerk who happened to be good at writing catchy synth tunes. But nooo they probably all were fluent in bach and Mozart right? Big LOL my dude.
Tyler Gonzalez
Romanticism was the birth of wank in music, nice bait tho
Nolan Morris
Like I've said: it clearly went over your head. You probably listened to babby's first composers Chopin and Rachmaninoff (missing the fact that you grew up listening to tonal music and that pop music uses harmonies that are at Schubert's level at best so it's a psychological fact that your brain is wired to like this) and declared that it is worthwhile, congratulations. But you've got absolutely no knowledge and no experience of any other period, we get it. Anything different from what you're used to is an acquired taste and it takes knowledge and experience to change this. You don't have to, obviously, and not all of it is for everybody, but don't don't act like a high and mighty authority, you're lost here, kid. You don't know what you're saying.
I know this is bait, but are you trying to imply that Kraftwerk invented electronic music? Just trying to understand your baiting technique.
Leo Brooks
>they probably all were fluent in bach and Mozart right Uh, yes. They most likely were, because most of them were sound engineers that went through institutionalised education and/or academia. Especially the Germans and French, obviously (the actual pioneers).
Justin Bennett
Also, plenty of krautrock artists were classically trained.
Nathan Adams
not bait, please enlighten me who is that godlike entity who """"""""invented"""""""" electronic music all on his own and all it's songs and instruments.
Logan Scott
Not what I'm saying but okay my dude. I listen to beats too, I just don't need one specific instrument or genre to cater to my narrow and undeveloped tastes. I have a very diverse taste in different musics. Take care now.
There's probably a few others but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head
Isaac Sanchez
funnny but no actual good music. thank u, next.
Gabriel Walker
music theory is just the language used to understand and express musical information. if you're illiterate and communicate in grunts then you probably don't have much to say, and even if you did, you couldn't say it eloquently.
how many successful and talented musicians knew music theory? maybe 19 out of 20. don't kid yourself.
Every good musician knows at least some theory, consciously or not. You don't suddenly become less creative when you learn what things are called or how they work. No, at worst, learning theory may only make you realize that you actually suck.
Anthony Davis
>search keyword "electronic" >no hits thanks for wasting my time, faggot.
most of them here may've made a good song or 2 and most of them will likely be like "I CAN DO TRAP MUSIC!!!!" while a lot of them sit here and act like they are better than everyone else cause they understand a stupid line of thought that literally only uber nerds use or like to know. Fuck that shit. MT is dumb
Also note that virtually every name on this page right up until the paragraph about dub reggae is either a classically trained musician with or without engineering skills or an engineer with a thorough musical background.
Bentley Nguyen
Not
Sebastian Lee
nope
Michael Ross
these retards actually think that all the star musicians they love actually haven't studied music.
first of all he's not that great, second of all, yes he did.
Christopher Lee
I'm more interested in books desu, but I'll check these out and see if they have some book recommendation videos
Josiah Butler
you're right, every German first contact with music is through Bach, Mozart and Beethoven
Angel Miller
no he studied electrical engineering or sth. also yes he is the greatest musician of all time.
Zachary Perez
>desu
Hudson Flores
he studied music, also he's of average talent.
Cooper White
prove that he studied music.
Jaxson Ross
I forgot about the filter, to be honest
Julian Foster
>the greatest musician of all time. wow
Oliver James
what do you mean by that?
Caleb Flores
yes he is, he has an advantage however because he was born into a time where he had the ability to use synthesizers. nobody before the era of synths can beat him because all they had where some boring piano and string instruments.
Jeremiah Rogers
Rick's videos generally are quite good, but too unstructured for beginners I feel. Adam Neely's stuff is the Vsauce of the music theory world, which isn't to say it's bad per se, but I'd be surprised if a beginner learned very much from him.
>It sounds godawful in a band though or at least I couldn't make it sound more natural. check out the japanese band Ruins
Colton Morris
that's also an issue of institutional access, up to a point
Camden Johnson
you really think someone like... Drakee knows music theory?
Eli Adams
The instruments are irrelevant. If you need 50 synths to make a song, you're probably not that good. It's the same with guitarists and their pedals, the more pedals you see, the shittier their musical craft...
Jaxon Bell
There's definitely something to be said for that but don't forget tinkerers like Robert Moog and Raymond Scott
Leo Anderson
>The instruments are irrelevant this is were im done arguing with a creativlet and brainlet like you. youre either some fucking neckbeard tipping his fedora over his classical shite or youre some oldfag who cant get into electronic music. sound design is one of the most important factors in music. electronic instruments opened up dimensions compared to acoustic instruments.
Nolan Watson
yeah but many fewer people are going to disagree with the idea that you need an education to succeed at tinkering with electronics
Jacob Williams
and Raymond Scott is a prime example of institutional access, his music education gave him access to the world of big band directing, which gave him the credibility for people like Moog to take him seriously and help him out.
Jayden Wright
he didn't study music, he said in interviews that he relies only on feeling. anyway, his strength lies in attention to details. this is his most advanced track: youtube.com/watch?v=wSYAZnQmffg
>MT is dumb So you basically reinvent an inferior version of the wheel via years of trial and error, and that's somehow better than just learning how to use a wheel?
sound design and synthesis is cool and all but - sorry - it's still sound. For sound to become music it needs cultural and a human components. Nobody can reproduce Aphex's sounds precisely cuz they're based on sound only. I can't play his bloody songs on a campfire because I'm not a fucking robot. When the cunt dies, nobody will be able to keep developing his ideas cuz there's absolutely no reproducible code in them. Probably the software on which he did them will be outdated or the formats obsolete or the synths no longer manufactured, so nobody will be able to look at his sequencers and he'll be completely wiped out of any musical tradition which, just so you know, musical tradition has been around for more than 100 times the time you've been alive and it's for a good reason: only the information that can be stored and replicated -wether through scores or oral tradition and (playable) records can trascend generations. Classical music has done so in part because of it's systematic approach and meticulous keeping of scores. How many musics have lived and died throughout the world together with the people taught them just because they did not have a recording method that could stand the test of time? I'll tell you: Hundreds od Thousands + Aphex Twin's
Christian Fisher
This.
>knowledge bad!!!1111 >t-tryhards!!! >m-muh aphex twin and jimi hendrix!!! Yea Forums is so pathetic lmao. The COPE is real.
no, you're retarded. first of all, he started mentioning alternate tunings only in the recent years, and made only some experiments with it, the majority of his work (for which he is most famous) was made in 12tet (with maybe some exceptions on saw2). from a music theory standpoint his melodies and chords are simple. >all sorts of theory stuff like what?
Austin Russell
Scott established Manhattan Research in 1946 and Moog met him in 1957 so the guy was definitely plugging away by himself for a while, it was something ancillary to his main career and a private passion really. Even after they met I don't think Moog was a patron or shill for him, just helped with little odd jobs like getting a hold the sub assembly of the Theremin so Scott could mess around with it and stuff. Even Moog himself you might think he'd be well in with the Columbia Princeton electronic music center crowd being as he went to university there but that doesn't seem to be the case (although I bet they're proud of him now). You're welcome to pick flaws but I still feel what they did was relatively entrepeneurial and outside of academia to about as much of a degree as you could get away with back then. Scott's musical background, acumen and success wouldn't have hurt but he had to be an enthusiast to get into it in the way he did as much as Aphex or anyone
Evan Gomez
>embarrassment for crooked writing while mansplaining EDM pussies why their idols suck
Owen Ramirez
>can't fit ideas into the rigid framework of the music notation system if you can't fit your ideas into music notation you need to tune your fucking guitar.
Julian Foster
good digits, but you probably suck at making music t b h .
Asher Cooper
You guessed right but what does that have to do with anything? Theory = prescriptive =/= descriptive = composition.
Robert Cooper
nice, so its true all you fags can do is talk about music l o fuckin l.
David Lewis
Well it's more than not being able to talk about anything at all. ;)
Its not a theory to begin with, of course it is "pragmatic", you "can" play music. Music is pragmatic.
Ryan Kelly
how can theory so drastically determine how much a composition sucks? do you take the bus to work blasting liszt in your headphones?
Nathaniel Campbell
cant believe so many people fell for this stale as fuck pasta
Nicholas Green
Not a single example, but: >Wendy Carlos and her Switched On Bach series are cornerstones of electronic music with the first recorded bass drop >the tape manipulation and robotic experimentations of people like Varese and Cowell, with Cowell being one of the first to use a drum machine ever, made by the creator of the theremin >Hindemith's use of the Trautonium, an early electronic instrument >American post-modernist classical and tape experimentation, notably the Minimalists and especially Terry Riley >Stockhausen and his pupils
Bentley Russell
>he doesn't listen to his composer of choice on his way to work pleb
Any good theory books that use little to no sheet music? I prefer piano key illustrations cause I'm a brainlet
Adrian Bennett
because many people here unironically believe and defend this
Jacob Wilson
>impying pop musicians don't know theory
Samuel Gutierrez
There are some melodies that just can't be contained in music notation system. You'll run out o pf notes or you won't even have the symbols to represent the complex rhythm. Some music just can't be written down or communicated in any way.
Camden Richardson
Musicians compose music with reals, not so much with feels. The emotions of the artist are practically irrelevant; the way the artist codes those emotions into the message/art is key and what makes music good. Mozart's music isn't good because he was a whiny bitch but because he was a genius craftsman.
Nicholas Lopez
frankly no but if your commute is taking enough you need to listen to multiple pieces (unless you're listening to webern) then you're better off moving
Grayson Clark
how tf did you get that
Brayden Harris
Then you don't know any real musicians
Jonathan Garcia
lol ok retard
Nathan Turner
You clearly don't understand that composition and making music in general is mostly a rational and thinking job, even if it's subconscious decision making.
Anthony Reed
>Innovation is in electronic music Not sure how much more innovation is left to be made in electronic music, both from popular and academic perspective. We've had stuff like granular synthesis, non-standard synthesis, live electronics, noise etc., but all of that is a bit played out now.
David Thomas
Music theory people just like to make things sound more complicated than they are. It's always used to cover up a lack of talent. They want others to get all tangled up in it too so they can strip them of their talent as well. Just a bunch of piece of shit crabs in a bucket.
Jaxon Clark
comfy as FUCK bro, its like toggling for songwriting
Owen Johnson
wrong lol
Ryan Foster
you can write some pretty interesting shit with some inversions that cause the notes to stay together instead of hop around, use a progression that subverts expectations and has a weird arpeggiation pattern +reverb/delay and blam-o instant music
Alexander Perez
Yeah how dare those music theory people tell me what this rhythmic pattern or this chord progression is called. So fucking complicated and pretentious, I'd much rather say it sounds like "pewwwp ewww bow owowowo owww pewww".
Elijah Morgan
Mozart's music definitely starts off from a primarily emotional standpoint, but that is built on by a fantastic depth of musical knowledge by someone who was extremely skilled.
Isaiah Howard
I agree, I don't think this is a counterargument but rather we are in agreement. Obviously emotions and life experiences are an important factor in how an artist expresses himself (and the quality of this) but when strictly speaking about making music/composition, rationality is at the wheel.
Parker Thomas
fucking RIP OP you are finished. maybe leave here and go to Yea Forums
Lucas Turner
try psychedelics
Leo Martinez
Theory is useless in a musical crisis
Nathaniel Lewis
Literally the opposite lol
Daniel Hill
Theory is only useful if you don't want to be an artist. If you want to be an artist, just develop your own style. That's what Hendrix did. He could barely play but because he was different he got famous.
Sebastian Brown
>just b urself >just do whatever lol lmao
Isaiah Brooks
>t. no creativity
Carter Cruz
>t. plays a powerchord for 30 minutes and lets his creative juices really flow
Isaiah Roberts
I'm going to have to agree with you here You have no clue what you're talking about. Of course theory is important, but if you think they weren't constantly inventing instruments to invent new sounds back in the day you're fucking retarded.
Chase Wilson
What's funny is there's people who have gotten very famous and successful just by playing power chords. You're mixing up artistry with musicianship. You don't need the second to accomplish the first. If you want to live out some Whiplash fantasy, go ahead and waste time learning theory. If you want to be a good artist you have to have an interesting style.
Angel Young
I don't see how anyone expects to be talented or unique if they're going to do music theory. You'll be just like everyone else.
Benjamin Nguyen
Look man whilst I actually agree with you, this still stands true you just learn what others have been doing and develop your own shit, it's that simple and with theory it's faster and easier.
Alexander Garcia
You too, see >You'll be just like everyone else. lol as opposed to... subconsciously making the same stuff like everyone else
Henry Collins
Pretty fuckin cool user(not the guy you’re replying too)
Adam Carter
thanks bro
Jace Barnes
>using simple theory is the same as using no theory at all okay retard
Joseph Martin
How can I begin to get into actual music theory? I’m an untrained bedroom guitarist and I want to have an actual understanding of music. I try to sight read once a day for ten minutes or longer. What else should I be doing daily?
Jace Wright
1. DO ACID OR MUSHROOMS 2. Marinate in the new perspective 3. ???? 4. PROFIT!!!
I don't understand why people are so eager to destroy their creativity with music theory. It's like they're afraid of being thought of as non-intellectual, so they feel the need to get validation and be "certified intellectual musicians", not realizing that they're destroying their musical ability in the process. Maybe if they had some other intellectual achievement outside of music, they wouldn't feel so insecure about their intelligence to the point that they had to resort to music theory. They're closing themselves off from a big world of music. Oh well, they're choice.
Jack Hughes
Music theory is a descriptive tool for fuck sake, how many times does this need to be said?
Nicholas Gonzalez
You've gotta take one route or the other. You can't serve two masters.
Jayden Butler
you obviously didn't bother to read my post above, you idiot. by his own admission, he only made the music by feeling. he didn't use the theory.
Andrew Mitchell
Ya that
Jose Cooper
if you're learning by yourself try to listen and transcribe a lot of music.
Motif development: 1. Listen to a lick (preferably not too long; 4-5 notes max.) 2. Write it down 3. Analyze its context (how its notes relate to the chord in the background) find it's formula. 4. Develop it (everything below written before played): 4.1 Transpose it to other keys (this will help you to visualize the fretboard) 4.2 Transpose it to other harmonic contexts. (step 3 helps with that) i.e. write it on top of other songs. 4.3 change its notes longer or shorter (note value change) 4.4 rhythmic displacement (move it all over all the downbeats/upbeats that compose your bar) 4.5. lengthen it or crop it by adding/removing notes to it. 5. play it again over some chords, and try to develop it while playing.
To learn chords memorize their guide tones: 3 and 7 for 7th chords.
i.e. Ebmaj7: Eb(1), G(3), Bb(5), D(7) guide tones G, D guide tone for Eb major triad : G
a guide tone is a tone or combination of tones that gives a chord its unique tonal quality. If you play a G - D or D - G interval over an Eb bass or under a melodic line with some notes found in the Eb major scale, you will automatically render the sound to Eb major7
Carson Rogers
>Hendrix >could barely play You're a master baiter
Daniel Campbell
I cant even masturbate anymore unless I use a polyrhythm and moan triads through the circle of fifths
Eli Barnes
>by his own admission you idiot
Blake Cruz
>tfw on the verge of getting a major indie record deal >everyone says my album demo is great and I'm a talented artist/musician >mfw I wrote it all myself without knowing any theory >mfw talentless theory fags ITT SEETHE
>The paid professionals around me are all telling me I'm great hoo boy are you in for a letdown
Ian Martin
>strawman Seethe harder theory nerd It's ART not SCIENCE
Evan Kelly
If your demo so good why don't you post it? Oh wait, it doesn't even exist
Jack Moore
>everybody says I'm talented >I believe them no need for a strawman here pal
Jeremiah Green
>he doesn't know the legalities of that Color me surprised, theorytard
Nathan Reed
second this
Hudson Ortiz
uploading phony records is not illegal yet
Brody Ross
you're a pussy if you let what is essentially an organizational tool ruin music for you. you can either keep whining like a 12 year girl on her first period or learn to grow a fucking backbone and move the fuck on with your life. the rest of us genuinely don't care.
Henry Lewis
Paul McCartney did later learn to read music and And George must've at least known a scale or two.
Gabriel Barnes
its just your dopamine thats messed up after years of destructive habits
you use music theory to explain things, not to invent them shit sounds cool/shit to me, but why? look at the theory
Isaiah Bailey
practice improv it'll force you to work on your creative muscle while also driving you to learn more theory
James Scott
>art music >2019 lol
Asher Bell
if music theory ruined your ability to create music, then you probably fucking sucked at writing anyways. how the fuck could a bunch of theories prevent you from expressing yourself?
Xavier Reyes
fpbp
Aaron Flores
That shit's genuinely going to fuck you up, actually. The idea's sound, the implementation's deadly.
Caleb Sanchez
lol
Asher Gomez
i believe him. no need to learn theory to make indie music. fuck off theory fags.
Mason Rogers
music is a feeling. there are some sounds that arent ideal but if I'm mutting decent I could pretty much just play random 2 or 3 note chords/power chords plucked from a scale and it will sound good.
I dont really believe muting theory would diminish this. I'd still be shit when I'm not on beat, and good when im on beat. but I do believe that a concept of music wherein there are magical pitches and combos as defined by theory... this type of thinking can be defeating if the player is not always trying their hardest to improve rhythmic sensibility. but yeah with a balanced mindset i dont see how theory would ever hold you back.
Jackson Foster
Not all of us are faggot who needs to be spoonfed rules. I transcribe my emotions into music. Keep your beta theory
Ryder Lee
Same desu I was more creative before i learned how to play now I just edit myself over and over until I get things right
I'm retarded & dont bully me and im not trying to be anti-theory or pro-theory. But how is learning theory to understand how certain things "work" in songs any different from doing it without theory? your understanding without usually isnt very descriptive or complex but it seems to get the job done some of the time, even if its limited to "the drums do that in that way so i could do that" etc.
indie is one of the lowest tier of pop music though
Tyler Allen
>when strictly speaking about making music/composition, rationality is at the wheel. this. during mozart's time (and even more so in the time of bach), being a musician was thought of the same as being a carpenter or any other thing- it was just a craft. It wasn't until the romantic era that the whole "IM LE ARTIST MUH EMOTIONS" shit became the norm
Nathan Scott
This is the most idiotic post in recent years
Jeremiah Foster
it mainly speeds up the process. for example, in band rehearsals the fact that we all know music theory makes learning songs exponentially quicker (we can just be like, "ok so the progression is I vi IV bVI" or whatever), whereas if we didn't know any theory every member would have to pick out all of that by ear instead of one person just being able to tell them.
Easton Myers
Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it isn't applied. I think a lack of theoretical boundaries is why key modulation is so common in their songs
Ayden Jones
Even during Romanticism, there was the entire point of "Ok, MUH EMOTIONS, but how do I represent those emotions?"
Nah, I'd say that all the songs they learned and studied lead to their modulations being so ridiculously common.
Jose Anderson
Based and correct. This sort of "genius cult" began in the romantic era where the (correct) view of the musician as a craftsman started dying out and being replaced with this bullshit notion that that good art is purely unconscious or emotional and that systematisation and logic are antithetical to it.
Nolan Butler
maybe, op might as well roll the dice, what is the alternative
Gabriel Myers
Pretty eloquent as LARPing goes though. Sometimes I wish I knew how to play an instrument, and musical notation, since at least 4 times a year I wake with a dreamed song still going, sometimes complete with lyrics that make sense, and I can usually improvise variations on it in my head as it plays there. But the faculty fades over 30 minutes of waking, and never approaches the always-ready command I have in synesthetic visual choreography. Can't imagine what it would be like to go from vision to sound. I suspect that Mozartean prodigality somehow works that way, borrows from vision's easy power of organizing as if from outside time.
Evan Lopez
Buddy, go to church and sing some hymns. If you know any music theory, you'll appreciate their simplicity in basic chord progression and counterpoint on top of being designed for a crowd to sing. It's amazing when you suddenly understand why the Old 100th's final cadence doesn't have a unison 7-8 like you'd expect.
Joseph Williams
I was constrained by my own ignorance until I learned about harmonic minor.
Elijah Sullivan
correction: the glory be
Luis Carter
heh. Unless you're Stravinsky. Then you're BASE jumping off those cliffs.
But the genius is for fluency in system, for playing with abstraction. Of course there's no such thing as a genius for feeling, and the artists of the romantic never contended that, though morons among fans of anything do, whatever the zeitgeist favors when it comes to feelings to convey and provoke.
Chase White
I guess that tells you: the romantic composers were so meticulous with their writing they made it look easy.
If classical music theory is a fence that keeps you safe from sounding awful, the romantics knew all the holes and low spots in that fence that they could cross to go cause mischief and hop back in unscathed. I only took a semester and a half of theory, and I liked it.
Listening to Widor's 10th Organ Symphony "Roman" and his Bach Memento. Any recs?
