>mfw I study musicology (German Musikwissenschaft edition) >also other humanities >read for hours with unbroken concentration, cementing and synthesising knowledge through peer discourse >professor directly supervises my thesis, we enjoy a fruitful academic correspondence >throw Bacchanalian orgies, reveling in the pleasure of the flesh >go to museums and concerts and read literature in my free time >flawlessly deliver compelling presentations that span a variety of disciplines >am aware of my inevitable ethnographic and ideological biases, undauntedly sail between the syclla of objectivity and the charybdis of subjectivity >can effortlessly recall nuanced concepts from years ago >have a diverse and eclectic mix of friends, celebrate people for their ideas
also >be top of my class >professors can't wait to give me work >mfw guaranteed job doing what I love (music)
How fucking DARE you? Barber was one of the best american composers of his time. Stop making fallacies ad populum faggot
Oliver Adams
Stop pulling stories out of your ass
Blake Campbell
>Barber was one of the best american composers of his time. As an American, I know that doesn't mean shit. It's like talking about English composers after Handel.
Hindemith likes it Schoenberg (Formerly Schönberg) likes it Webern likes it Berg likes it I Like it The Musicology frog likes There's also another regerfag who posted his fantasie and fugue in the last thread What are waiting for joining the club user!!!!
>The madman wrote a book showing how to quickly modulate to any key, including from C major to B# major This is, of course, easily doable if you are indifferent to how the music sounds, which might have been Reger's "secret."
>only valid suggestion Dude tell the truth, you haven't heard the other ones. I could also add Tippet, Walton or Williamson
Gabriel Rogers
Your posts are a joke. We get it, you don't like them, but right now you are on the left hand side of the Dunning-Kruger graph - full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. As you learn more, you will realise you don't actually know what you're talking about, and then as you learn even more, you will be able to comprehend a serious discussion about English and American composers.
Ryder Jenkins
What are you saying? You like the sinfonietta or what?
Alexander Nelson
I'm going to assume they're part of the English movement reactionary, post-romantic sort which composed, in contrast to the modernists, nice-sounding fluff, including Delius, Hubert Parry, Butterworth, Frank Bridge, John Ireland, Frederic Cowen, Malcolm Arnold, and Arnold Bax, who I have heard, and was not impressed.
Feel free to try to "wow" me with contrary examples of good music from the composers I mentioned who I am discounting.
Adam Bailey
Dude no, Bax, Tippet, Bliss, Williamson and Britten were modernists. Stop believing that you have the knowledge in this sterile discussion.
It's great, but it's a symphonietta, not a serious symphony.
Lucas Price
What are YOU waiting**** Goddamnit i have to reread my posts before posting
Landon Rogers
So, no attempt to actually post good music? That would make this discussion less sterile, but I understand your difficulty, trying to defend a country's composers whose accomplishments equal that of any country's except in music.
This is the point where you give up, or just resort to personal remarks. Of course, posting good music by these composers, music that even remotely compares to the best music on the continent, would shut me up, but this would be more difficult, and I personally think impossible. Do it. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
I would like to remark that without my intervention, this new hans meme would never have been born. I asked for antisemitic conposers and someone told me about that composer
Ayden Wright
>posting music to make you shut up already. I said "good" music, which this is not, certainly nothing that compares to the best of the continent. I will say what I've said before, that it's at least music, which could not be said for the modernists after a certain point. In the first Bliss pieces, we hear the reliance on the same tricks, and an obsession with middling, if inoffensive thematic material in place of development, along with drastic changes with character, which the modernists seem to confuse with development.
Development isn't necessary at all times, of course, but it requires in place of it immensely polished and affecting music, (like in Chopin), or highly ornamented, yet sublimely ornamented music, (like Bach).
I could keep listening, but if you really think this compares well with the best of European music, we simply have very different standards.
This music seems to take the worst and least elements of late-romantic Russian music, while providing little memorable. The textures are thick, and the use of instruments are various, but when the noise is past, the impression does not long remain.
There are few clear sections, no pacing, no direction towards a point the audience anticipate. It's just section after section of orchestral colors of vague character that any discerning audience would know is ultimately shallow.
It's a problem of dissipation, but instead of prolifically wasting effort on disconnected pieces, (like Czerny, Liszt, and Saint-Saëns), this happens in entire works. To think that Liszt's symphonic poems look highly unified in comparison.
Christian Bell
Shut the fuck up, you can't even read music, brainlet.
Yeah you can't hear it because it goes over your head because your listening experience is undeveloped due to your autism, inflated ego and inexperience; can't read music = can't analyse and/or talk about music, doesn't read about music, doesn't expand tastes etc. You're a brainlet, simple as.
Feel free to provide better arguments as a result.
Consider that there if, of course, no proof that any of you know how to read music. This would be okay if you actually provided arguments in compensation, but this rarely happens. It's very easy to claim that you read music without substantiation, or even truth, imply that somehow replaces arguments, and mock anybody who doesn't share your opinion.
Lucas Edwards
I have a diverse and eclectic mix of friends and celebrate people for their ideas. I only mock you because you're a stupid entitled cunt.
Feel free to prove that is the case and these composers aren't utterly mediocre.
I'm sure some of my enemies are defending music they know is weak, just to contradict me, which only indicates how easily they are made obnoxious, and how quickly they resort to muh dawny kroorger in place of arguments. They would rather defend a hundred composers of utter worthlessness then let a single knock on Schnittke go by. I imagine if I came here and defended modernists who they disliked, (such as Feldman), they would use the same non-arguments, or if I started attacking Feldman, they would defend his music to the death.
Owen Ross
Yeah, I have plenty of gay friends too. Not an argument ;)
Adam Taylor
>hurr durr they defend music they know is weak just to make me angry!!!111!!!1 You are just being pathetic at this point if you believe this. Log off the internet
Colton Butler
Not to make me angry. I do not have such a low opinion of you to think you would something so futile, at least not yet.
There isn't much point in us trying to "defend" these composers - you clearly aren't ready for them. You don't understand them because you can't even read music. If you can't read the words, you cannot comment on the substance of a novel. End of discussion. Go fuck yourself now, brainlet.
Let me remind you again: You failed to comprehend 20th century music. Don't worry, most people do.
Just remember that composers like Ligeti and Stockhausen spend their entire lives learning and thinking about music - don't expect to "get" or "like" what they're doing straight away.
Its fine to say you don't like 20th century music, or don't like certain composers or pieces, but calling them mediocre and trying to act superior to them aint going to fly - you are massively inferior to them in knowledge and experience.
Right now you are on the left hand side of the Dunning-Kruger graph - full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. As you learn more, you will realize you don't actually know what you're talking about, and then as you learn even more, you will be able to comprehend a serious discussion about 20th century music.
There isn't much point in us trying to "defend" these composers - you clearly aren't ready for them. Get comfortable with Bartok, Penderecki and Lutoslawski and then we can talk.
>This is, of course, easily doable if you are indifferent to how the music sounds, which might have been Reger's "secret." you're completely wrong there.
Readying yourself seems to having horrendous taste. Again, I'm not convinced any of you can actually read music either. Saying that if one can read music, one automatically likes this music, is, of course, begging the question. It's not as if any reason is given why reading this sort of music is necessary, which never seemed to be the case with previous composers. Seems like a critical defect if a composer has to be read to be appreciated. A pastiche of Brahms and smells of the lamp. Not a terrible work, but hardly great.
Michael Wood
Some of them are cute, especially the ones with the composers and his/her sons/daughters
Andrew Williams
I should have made it clear that I'm not German nor do I study there but I live in a very small country close to the German culture and language and we are very influenced (and were throughout history by them). I said German edition to distinguish it from the Anglos and American style studies.
I am taking my first year of German as well though. Ich studiere [in meinem Stadt] Musikwissenschaft, faggot.
Sorry I don't speak about serious music and I don't compete in evaluating said music with uneducated brainlets who can't even read music. Come back to me when you've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours analysing works, reading literature, attending concertos and playing instruments and music. In the mean time: go fuck yourself, Hans.
>Sorry I don't speak about serious music This explains the strenuous defenses of modernist music on your part, as feeble as they have been, which I would not consider "serious," (at least not as music), so we agree on that point.
Oliver Nelson
haha epic you cut off the sentence midway no seriously shut the fuck up, Hans.
Benjamin Cox
The rest of the sentence is just a personal remark, but it in its entirety still implies the music you have warmly defended is not "serious."
If there is a reason you think you deserve better treatment, feel free to express it.
I would expect nothing less at this point. It would be one thing if there was anything remotely elevated about your posts, or if you did nothing but mock me. But attempts have been made to defend apparently indefensible music, and they were extremely wanting, and what is born from this futility? Shitposts like this:
When will /classical/ take the pettersson pill? Allan Pettersson is one of the most relevant composers of the XX century for a lot of reasons. Here are seven reasons why.
1. He is the logical (and masterful) conclusion of Mahler symphonism. If we see how Mahler ended his style with the ninth and tenth symphonies, and if we compare them with Pettersson's ones (with some things changed of course) we see a huge influence. 2. He composed 16 symphonies. Without counting the first one (which never really finished) the others are between great works to masterpieces 2. His seventh symphony is his most important work, a masterpiece that elevated him to the status of the greatest composer of the modern Sweden. 3. His music is completely unique in all senses: his music is tonal but deeply violent, depressive and dissonant. The lyrism are smalland brief islands in his music 4. Attacked both by reactionaries and progressives, he rejected to modify his music for others, he maintained his music style and sincerity 5. He never left behind his musical expression behind the mere formalism. His works have feelings but very dark ones. 6. Had to face incredibly hard conditions: poor family, abusive father, rejection to his musical vocation. He overcome all those problems and managed to be a musician and composer 7. Most of his works are artistic monuments which embrace all the nuances of the human race, the dark and the bright ones.
I love how the reason he felt "comfortable" with revealing this was the fact that nobody was bothering to properly debate him. Like, maybe there was a reason for that Hans... Jesus Christ.
Stravinsky also liked Reger The "The Last Giant Of Music" is a Hindemith quote about Reger
Dylan Brown
How does that follow? Yes, the reason is that this general is filled with ignoramuses who think their unsubstantiated abilities gives them any authority and makes up for total inability to being articular and persuasive.
You were clearly ignorant of what the reason might have been, which is why you were unsure if there was a reason, so I am glad I could remove your ignorance on that one point.
Liam Hill
I don't care, there have been giants since Reger.
Jackson Thompson
You fuck it up m8 the Penis is pointing at poor berg
Good post, i discovered the Symphony 7 long time ago where do you think should l go next with his works? I only listened to the 7 like another poster said in another he's literally too depressing to listen too often i guess i should listen to Pettersson once a month or something
I already explained the concept of 'not even wrong'. I shouldn't have to explain it again.
Tyler Davis
I post a hard Reger work and everyone looses their mind "'"'"muuuuuuuuuh musical gesture"""""""""""" But then someone post an even lighthearted Reger work """'mvvvvvvvvhhh Brums pastiche"""""""" The Regerfeels >tfw too conservative for modernists and too modernist for conservatives
>well, since you're already casting your pearls before swine, you might as well bring up arguments that I'm not even going to understand as well. Not that I've ascertained the meaning of the ones already provided.
this is why I promised to never listen to anything conducted by him
Evan Hughes
Well, I agree in principle with it; specifically, when applied to my opinions. Much less so for other people. Well, he was not a good composer. That Latin Requiem was nice, though. Post more Reger music like that. >implying
I feel like posting this creepy picture of Bernstein has killed the thread. Sorry guys.
Hudson Lewis
Wagner sucks Bernstein's cock.
Joshua Wright
nazis pwnd
Alexander Collins
>Not knowing about renaissance, romantic and 20th century English/British composers pleb
Adrian Garcia
I obviously know about romantic and 20th century British composers (of which Taylor was both). But I'll admit there is a gap in my knowledge of Renaissance composers because choral works just don't do it for me most of the time.
Renaissance English composers were some of the best in the world
Jaxon King
Yeah, this music just sounds incredibly generic to me. I have no idea what the appeal is. Maybe this was interesting for its day but not after 400 years of theoretically informed music.
>You fuck it up m8 the Penis is pointing at poor berg No it just illustrates my feelings toward's Berg and his music (I'm excited by it) very well and at the same time I am telling the autist to suck it; win-win.
Kevin Cruz
No, you're a charlatan.
You failed to comprehend 20th century music. Don't worry, most people do.
Oliver Wilson
>>throw Bacchanalian orgies, reveling in the pleasure of the flesh Vade retro satana
Jack Ortiz
Academia is comfy as fuck and I will write papers and essays and create literature for the few educated people interested in such a beautiful and rich topic (music, history aka humanities). Stay mad.
where do you think should l go next with his works? Try the symphony No.8, the violin concertos and the first concerto for string orchestra
Joshua White
If you think
Gould is bad
And Horowitz is good
And you don’t listen to Hofmann
Or godowsky
And you think the piano is a lyrical instrument with a singing tone
You’re a fucking pleb and
anyone who buys into your bullshit
Should be execut
Along with you
The 19th c pianists are the only ones worth
A fking dime
Josiah Nelson
Because you. Fucking shuck
Go shill your insecutiry elsewhere
Connor Allen
>I have no idea what the appeal is complex modal polyphony, creating harmonies we wouldn't really hear in the common practice era, or today.
its just you user, intelligent people find it super interesting and varied
Julian Rogers
COMPLEX
MODAL
POLYPHONY
As though complexity was a prerequisite for acceptability. Here take half life you FUCKING PLEB youtu.be/HZYgPx031pA
Go listen to mozart or read about beethoven the gardener. But don’t shit my general with your trash sophistry demanding complex sophistication from your fucking embellished folk tunes
Levi Wood
triggered lol
Don't assume I've never heard of Gombert and the multitude of Renaissance composers, because that assumption makes you look retarded. If you want to be helpful, feel free to find more complex non-vocal renaissance era music from England than what I posted., without posting the Byrd fretwork album.
Austin Davis
>complex >England What unbelievably arbitrary demands you make on embellished folk melodies. Define complexity and tell me why you’re not just sucking off 18th c Neapolitan everything instead. Here have something different your Soul will thank me youtu.be/buCD-_1UPn4
Ryan Watson
are you mentally challenged?
Thomas Wilson
Reminder that God exists and he loves even the shitposters of /classical/ to the extent that he died for their sins.
It's going past your head because you don't understand it, buddy. Just like illiterate people trying to read classic novels. You can obviously change this though if you try.
Juan Myers
>you will impregnate Clara a dozen times why live brehs
>That Latin Requiem was nice, though. Post more Reger music like that. What do you think of the Sinfonietta I posted in this thread tho? Like i said before Reger is a Gold mine i'm still fucking grasping the string quartets
Will check it out
Also since Pettersson is Swedish here's a meme related i found on /his/
Yes the piano is not a lyrical instrument The Piano is a polyphonic instrument Non-polyphonic works are irrelevant
Stop listening to your darling r*mantic era Start listening to my recordings of Gibbons, Byrd, handel, Bach, Scarlatti, Schoenberg (Formerly Schönberg), Webern, Berg Stop Listening to Mozart Start listening to ONLY my Mozart Recordings Also FUCK piano recitals Recordings are better and the future just like electronic music (he was right)
I don think there's a classical instrument with Better musicians right now than classical guitar And i think this is exactly because of how of a small and free niche is classical guitar
Yeah Beethoven's strong point in the Grosse Fuge is the Rhythm and not the Counterpoint I will defend The Grosse Fuge from contrarians until my death and maybe even after that
i dont think our repertoire isn't great though. concertos are a classic example; as much as i love concierto de aranjuez, it just completely cucks all the other works live Ponces concierto del Sur or Torrebas Concierto en flamenco. even those ones are basically just Spanishy ones, well never get something like shosty violin one. ah well
Camden Bennett
pick one artist from each era (Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, 'Modern'. see what the craic is and then just go on their spotify page dunno if it works for everyone but thats how id do it
Joshua Cruz
low attention span?
William Rivera
You play classical guitar m8? My friend give me some lessons but it was just fucking around with friends So i cannot say i play the guitar And as for guitar concertos i'm not really a big fan Mangoré did everything that has to be done in Guitar composition for me, sometimes i dont even listen to other guitar composers because Mangoré is so unique and the one who made me fall in love with the Classical guitar
It's a pity really, but imo there's not one truly great composer who's written works for the guitar. I honestly don't get the hype for barrios - he has some good pieces, but like with so many guitar composers I cannot stand the spanish/latin quality for too long. If it weren't for Bachs Lautenwerke and other transcribable works, I probably would've quit quite some time ago; some of his keyboard works work surprisingly well for two guitars too.
>Barrios Mangoré*** Call him Mangoré it was his nickname and is more cool dude And yeah some people can't stand that spanish/latin quality this may be the reason why classical guitar is the black sheep of classical Thank god i was born in the same shithole that Mangoré was born so this is Aesthetic Well at least chinks and gooks seems to like it classical guitar
unless youre into fairly modern stuff, i reckon its probably one of the worst instruments to study at pro level cos those are the only pieces i seem to ever find, like the best early modern sonata ive found is the antonio jose one its kinda like being a cuck, you listen to all the great orchestral works and concerti while you play the villialobos etudes for the nth time not saying its a shitty instrument, i do love it, but i get why people think im retarded
William Hernandez
this is my Aesthetic***
Julian Lewis
You would hear just about ANYTHING after 1920. In fact inspiration of renaissance music is one of the major themes of the early 20th century (Variations on a Theme of Thomas Tallis et al)
Jordan Flores
Well john Williams certainly didn't think he was being cucked when he spammed Mangoré all over the world Mangoré would certainly be a forgotten composer if wasn't for him And the Guitar is not really for orchestral music
The Friend who gave me those few guitar lessons played this once here with the local orchestra
Eli Bennett
>What operas m8? The Barber of Seville Rossini Oberon Weber Don Pasquale Donizetti Beatrice and Benedict Berlioz Otello and Falstaff Verdi La vida breve de Falla The Nightingale Stravinsky Wozzeck Berg Paul Bunyan Britten theres a few more but those are the ones my teacher told me to note, would be nice if we were in ballet too
Jeremiah Torres
Does anyone here buy classical recordings? If so, what format?
Matthew Murphy
my mummy buys cd's
Robert Carter
as a comple beginner in music theory, what books from the mega folder should I read first? or should I begin elsewhere?
get a teacher or use a video or some shit youll just trip over yourself self taught
Kayden Myers
bernstein dont worry hes dead now so theres no risk of being fondled
David Foster
bet you've never composed anything worthwhile in your life. all you can do is "talk" and "write" about music. lmao. pretentious pseudointellectuals are literally the cancer of the earth, leeching off of other peoples talent.
Duh, I'm not a composer and I don't study at the academy. Looks like I triggered somebody with my "talking" and "writing" and "thinking". Cheers, brainlet.
>talentlets coping with the fact they are not creative in the slightest and cant compose anything worth a shit. all they can do is calling people brainlets and low iq for not wasting their lives reading outdated shitty books by fedora tipping nerds.
Parker White
Pfitzner
Jason Wright
So people shouldn't read books unless they are writers? They shouldn't watch movies unless they are directors?
Sorry fellas, the trail's run cold. I think this whole underground school may have just been a purely academic entity. Or else Bruce Adolphe just made the whole thing up.
Jaxon Walker
Sounds like another Hans desu
Dylan James
For better or worse, the Puccini of the latter half of the 20th century. Whether you hate or respect Pucini or Weber, this is undeniable.
Actually, the last quarter of the 20th century and the early 21st, just like Puccini in the last quarter of the 19th and the early 20th. Really, Weber and Puccini are essentially the same figure in their respective fields: Weber in musicals, and Puccini in opera. A major different would be that Puccini was making opera more accessible and popular to the grow middle class in continental Europe, while Weber was elevating the musical by integrating numerous styles, including the operatic.
Weber was actually far more ambitious in his field, and his influence on the art form was far more positively influential and elevating than that of Puccini on opera. If Weber's works are not greater than Puccini's however, even if they were more original, influential, and ambitious, it shows how difficult it is to create great art in necessarily lesser and less developed forms. Puccini as an artist has been equaled in musicals, but it is unlikely there will ever be Mozart or Verdi.
Aiden Williams
Puccini seems to have a fairly advanced and contemporary (for its time) harmonic vocabulary. I don't know why the general shits on him. He's not like Johann Strauss of anything.
Hudson Butler
Yes, I would agree with that, but he is very, very inferior to Verdi and Mozart. I would say there is no level of complexity found in his music not found in previous composers.
I would imagine that while Weber was bringing his knowledge of opera, (and other genres), to musicals, elevating it in the process, Puccini was starting from opera, and integrating into it a simplicity that would be more appealing to the public. I might be wrong in this, as I do not know enough of the background of Puccini's music, but it makes sense, as opera was clearly an established form, and there is little seen in Puccini's music in any sense that was not in opera, with, again, the exception of simplification so the music would appeal to anyone, while endowing it with beauty. Weber, however, with bringing so many elements or classical music and opera and other genres to musicals, was really quite sui generis. >I don't know why the general shits on him. Because he was and still is popular, and compared to the contemporary modernists, or avant-garde late romantics who are darling to many here, he is the one of the few really popular composers of that period.
This is largely the reason why Meyerbeer, despite, and really, because of his extraordinary popularity with the public, (to such a degree that perhaps not even Weber experienced), was so strongly despised by Wagner and his disciples, even though Meyerbeer was equally as ambitious as Wagner was, and there really is not such a vast gulf of quality between the works of Meyerbeer and Wagner. Eventually, the Wagnerians succeeded, decades after both composers had passed, and the man who once dominated all opera now borders on the obscure and is rarely played, while Wagner's popularity is, (in my opinion), quite higher than it should be.
Imagine if romantics, who adored Chopin, Schubert, Alkan, Brahms, and Schumann, (largely, composers of pure music), despised Verdi, Meyebeer, and Rossini. This is how petty this mentality is.
Puccini youtube.com/watch?v=IVJrSgt7rGc&ab_channel=sonoqui Everybody knows the standard interpretation of these piece, so I won't bother posting it. If this aria, when played in the standard fashion, does not melt your heart, when you are wrong or right, better or worse for it, you can consider your taste in this regard contrary to the rest of humanity.
Anyway, watching this scene and bits of Puccini's operas suggests to me that, unlike Verdi, and certainly, very unlike Mozart, he was extremely uneven. Any great music in this opera outside of this aria I would like to hear, but listening to this suggests that only Puccini could not consistently compose good music, but even when he did, it was not used appropriately.
Hearing how this aria is performed here and watching parts of the opera suggests that this piece of music is very ill-suited to its context and it deserved to be in a better, more serious opera, even a comedy.
I would imagine even this performance is probably too influenced by standard interpretations, and perhaps when audiences first heard this, it was even less apparent how elevated than its context.
youtube.com/watch?v=9RyM34Fzp-o This recording, from the year the opera debuted and from the very soprano who first played the part, and it's essentially the same performance as what sopranos sing in the aria separate from the opera itself, which suggests that singers knew it should be played differently and better than what was appropriate for the opera.
I could post multiple examples from Mozart, but I will assume there is no point. Mozart, in his characteristic perfection, wrote pieces that were excellent and sublime, yet in their ideal performances as pure music, perfectly adapted in their operatic contexts.
Going back to Puccini, this aria might be the equivalent of the "Ride of the Valkyries" in Die Walküre: the single excellent piece of music in hours of ear-splitting mediocrity.
Scriabin is the sort of composer whose music I either love, or am totally baffled by, but sense there is something there I can not hear. This piece is of the latter sort. I can not hear the excellence, but I allow it could be there. I would say, based on those mazurkas which I can understand, Scrabin is probably the best composer of mazurkas after Chopin, (which is not saying much, I allow).
Scrabin youtube.com/watch?v=CIBkI1_kPYE Some people might strongly object to this tempo, which totally flaunts the character of a mazurka, and is closer to that of a waltz. This, I sympathize with, but can not help but prefer it like this.
It occurs to me now that Scriabin, at least initially in his career, emulated Chopin as much as Chopin emulated Schubert, where in many, (but not all), of his compositions, he was following, but not imitating a composer. Much of what he wrote in imitating Chopin was excellent and fully justifies it worth, despite the apparent derivative qualities. Unlike Chopin, however, who perfected and elevated everything he took from Schubert, Scriabin really even came close to eclipsing Chopin. This was a perhaps a reason why he eventually stopped imitating Chopin, and the consequence was that he unarguably evolved more as composer. While Chopin composed largely in the same fashion throughout his life, (certainly, in his miniatures), which may be partially attributed to its shortness, Scriabin, who only lived slightly longer, in his last works barely resembles his earliest masterpieces. Ironically, these sort of comments please me the most, as it implies mine were mostly read.
Asher Martin
Also >tfw Scarlatti navigating between Modes and using tone clusters like is the 20th with a beyond tasteful classical guitar influence which you wouldn't heard of course if you are a Pianocuck
God Baroque is the Blackpill i hope my ear gets more refined in the future to dig more
Regardless of what might think, this aria is a minor masterpiece, yet deserved to be a better opera, with not only music, but a story that would compliment it.
youtube.com/watch?v=z1CN70DqDP8 Appearing at the end of the opera, if it's not one of Mozart's, or even the finest aria of the opera, there nobody would say there is any disproportion to the excellent of the music to the context, or the opera a whole, which one would say of Puccini. If it is unfair to compare Puccini to Mozart, Puccini should feel fortunate he wrote anything so excellent that any comparison would be fruitful.
The excellence in Amadeus lies not in the representation of envy, and, certainly, not in its plot, but in the manner it uniquely captures the admiration one feels to a genius of colossal magnitude, a god among men, and of such a worth we feel only we sufficiently appreciate in a philistine world that knows not the worth of our darling hero. It is still somewhat flawed in this regard, as it should have exhibited the frustration Salieri would have felt composing works so utterly inferior to that of Mozart's.
The representation of envy is much less effective, and I think only really successful in the scene where Mozart almost effortlessly takes a piece which was an effort of intense labor on the part of Salieri, and transforms into a far greater work through improvisation.
I think we should stop the hans meme Pfitzner was certainly not as bad as paragraphautist Pfitzner was just taking a side in the Conservative vs Modernist war in the era before the internet and in which by all means if i was a musician or composer at that time hearing atonal music i would had hated too
>actually mentioning his last name Now, somebody might listen to his music out of curiosity. Shame on you.
Adrian Martinez
I dunno i just read a little of his wikipedia page and i feel bad for an dead old men who's name is now used as an insult meme for an autist who can't even read music This may also had to do with my cognitive dissonance with atonal music since i used to hate atonal music as you all know and i know what it feels to be repulsed by atonal music and and sometimes i still Larp as a conservative atonal-hating here i'm very complicated here i'm not just a schoenbabe or webernfag who just jumps and defends their music like the majority of this general
Strictly speaking Jazz musicians (and certain enthusiasts) probably know more theory than classical musicians or enthusiasts. I'm not even a Jazz listener but Barry Harris and Rick Beato just seem really a lot more accessible than Fux and Hindemith. Today a Jazz guy totally schooled me on modulation.
The significance of this piece is that it strongly resembles a Christmas carol I used to sing with my family, and I showed it to my mother, and she recognized the piece as a Christmas carol, though she knew it in Spanish.
Jose Smith
e-celeb*** You mentioned beato And very close i'm 19
Jeremiah Price
So what? I mentioned fucking Beato. Jazz is all about improvisation. Most classical musicians just have to read the notes and play them as printed. Jazz musicians actually have to understand how the music works theoretically to improvise. Of course cadenzas are improvised but what proportion of classical musicians are soloists? Jazz theory has to be more accessible because a greater number of people (including blacks :^l ) have to understand it. Whereas classical theory is extremely academic and intended mostly for actual composers who want to do things that are more sophisticated anyway.
Levi Murphy
Then you didn't have to mention classical musicians because i get triggered because i know alot of classical musicians and they're wonderful people to listen and talk And i can understand all what they say (i'm not a classical musician) And you're piece in the other thread was quite nice m8 And you are starting to talk like a jazzfag
Jaxon Wilson
classical is dead, when classical was alive improvisation was a bigger thing although probably not as much as jazz
This is a fair analysis, and actually suggests that perhaps playing Jazz is more intellectually demanding than playing Classical music, as it requires the capacity to improvise.
This is, of course, a far cry from the 19th century, where pianists, especially the most notable, were expected to not only improvise, but compose, a practice that has almost completely disappeared for Classical musicians today, (the only exception I know among them being Hamelin).
I remember an interview from Berezovsky, (that I can not find), where he mentioned that improvisation is actually harder in Jazz than in Classical music because the latter features polyphony.
Eli Mitchell
I mean I read Hindemith's book. If you've read his book you'd recognize what I'm talking about. Its basically im-fucking-possible to remember all the rules and correlations he maps out between chord species (of which he differentiates probably somewhere in the realm of 4 dozen). Meanwhile if I watch a Rick Beato video or a Barry Harris lecture, nothing is really all that difficult to assimilate. I don't doubt the Hindemith is more fruitful (and I would like to work my way up to serious compositions) but the barrier to entry is massive. That's my only point. Jazzists are generally going to get more out of their subculture than we are on average.
Camden Johnson
>I don't doubt the Hindemith is more fruitful (and I would like to work my way up to serious compositions) but the barrier to entry is massive. I'm personally not convinced his contributions to music theory are valuable, as the best music was written long before him, and it seems like his principles did not seem to improve the sort of music he wrote himself.
Well to be fair Hindemith is the epitome of academic bully teacher you didn't have to start there not even if you're advanced in theory I mean he's one of the only persons who can see the genius of Reger And you dont need to remind me what this general thinks of Reger I like Reger but of course i only know the basics of theory and i can play the piano decently i keep saying this but i havent had practice in weeks but honestly i dont want to go further i'm lazy
Ryan Thompson
There you go, objecting when I'm saying something perfectly reasonable. You don't even bother to contradict me, which is sensible, as Hindemith's music is horrible and you know it.
I bet I could try to explain why Bach was superior to Handel and Telemann, and you will still give such an idiotic response, just to be contrarian.
I will admit that Reger has contrapuntal skill but I just don't find his philosophy of composition, perhaps, very appealing. I thought Hindemith was known for being associated with a movement called Musical Objectivism, which was basically an approach to composition rooted in ethics; that he wrote musical that was practical for performers (reputed to have known how to play each instrument) and by extension would probably also want to make his theory accessible as he personally could manage. I think, ultimately his own autism just got in the way of deriving some set of more elegant axioms from his convoluted system.
Is Schoenberg's theory more accessible?
Logan Price
Practice more user it gets better and better every day!
Its not reasonable to comment of theory when you can't even read music, Hans. That should go without saying. Hindemith desired to derive a system of composition that could at least the entirety of romantic music. On the other hand he seems very dismissive of the specific procedures of his contemporaries. If anything, you agree with him more than you realize.
And literally every slow Movement of his string quartets
Ian Young
I can't really argue differently. Out of the half-dozen Reger pieces I've heard, I've not heard a strong memorable melody. But I will grant that a composer can be interesting for other reasons. There does seem to be a certain confluence between the best melodists and their cultural prominence.
Ethan Rodriguez
Reger has a lot of variety - you may not like his long, dry fugues, but he writes much more accessible lieder and solo works.
His melodic skill is in par with Strauss and Mahler, you probably just haven't listened to the right sections or pieces. He has a massive variety of works, so its no surprise you haven't encountered his lyrical, melodic style.
Samuel Lee
How is this a strong melody? Its just Bachian noodling.
And it should go without saying that if the proprietor of a system produces only that which is worthless, it calls into question the value of that system.
You are again making the mistake of equating my position to those are also merely against what I oppose. That I am compared to Hindersmith and P___ shows the absurdity of this approach, as they opposed modernism, but were hardly similar composers, and contributed nothing valuable musically.
This. It's possible Reger is a neglected and hidden genius on the level of Bach or Schubert, or even Scarlatti, but that becomes much less likely as time passes, since his music has had every opportunity to be embraced the public, especially in this age. Regardless of Reger's worth, he is not a Bach, or a Schubert, and the public will never regard him as such.
I challenge the view that all possible great music that the public can enjoy has been exhausted, conveniently, around the time classical music became obscure and seemingly totally indifferent the public taste. Surely, the modernist has to accept this premise, or think that the public's approval is indifferent, or that the greatest music is totally beyond the public comprehension, and if public indifferent or disgust may not be a sufficient condition for greatness, but a necessary one.
The last delusional rationalization would lead to the conclusion that formalist nihilists such as Shoenberg, Webern, Berg, Ligeti, Cage, Stockhausen, etc., etc., are actually greater than the classic, immortal authorities in music, including Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart, which is the height of absurdity, so I think they would, to keep their sanity, they probably think that writing great music that was appealing became at one point either impossible or unnecessary. In the former case, I don't allow it, and in the latter case, being so indifferent to the public is only justifiable when you transcend your contemporaries to the extent Bach did.
This, of course, implies I'm getting under your skin.
Jaxon King
Not really. I'm just having fun. This is like a media cliche of a protagonist yelling the name of the bad guy. I'm not actually upset. Not that someone with autism could understand that.
Landon James
I'm fucking done with this people I gonna post my reger in this threads and there's nothing you can do People with alot more acknowledge of music has recognized his genius than anonymous on 4channel who thinks every cello solo piece sounds like Bach
Ian Cruz
Well, I understand that. Guess I'm free of autism then ;)
I see no reason why you posting a bad example of strong melodic writing should reflect negatively upon Reger. I don't doubt that he has stronger melodies than that, as I've surely heard a couple myself.
Robert Turner
Do you want to try to explain why his music is so generally unappealing, while Bach's was not? Don't you see that there was clearly something lacking in Reger that results in the immense amount of detail going to waste, as few people care to listen to it, and how much more valuable is combining learning with popular appeal, a la Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven?
Or no? That the public, as corrupt and philistine as it is, appropriately rejects Reger's music, which is of such transcendent beauty, there was no need to please the public, and this a handicap he superseded, making music far more profound than any previous composer, as it he was so indifferent to how pleasing his music generally was?
This might be the case, but if that's so, the composer himself would not agree, as he strongly admired his Hebbel Requiem, which is a very accessible piece.
Brandon Brooks
You will never be free of autism, Hans. And no, if I have to explain it, then you don't understand. I'm pretty sure the guy posting torture methods was genuinely mad. I'm just funposting and any idiot can see that.
Ayden Jackson
If I don't understand, that would imply I'm convinced you are actually mad, which should please me. This is the absurdity you have to find undeniable if you insist I don't understand.
Mason Evans
You're being stupid again Hans. Just take a couple minutes before each post and ask yourself: "Is what I'm about to post underwear-on-head-tier". I think cooler heads will prevail under this kind of consideration.
Nicholas Perry
Like i said i'm done this people but do i really need to explain why Reger is Different from Bach Do you know what was happening in the early 20th?
Levi Murphy
Are you actually denying the homage to the Bach Cello Suites (in particular the meme one)?
Gavin Morales
Cooler heads prevail now, so there is no need for this. You should ask the question every time, "Am equating insults with effective posts," and you will find how deficient your posts usually are. Let's see: Bach was a great composer, and Reger was not. That's a least one difference. >Do you know what was happening in the early 20th? Pretty much. Composers decided that making great, original music was hard, so they basically formalistically invented rules to justify writing noise that resembled music, insisting that the music, while sounding terrible, was written according to new rules that actually made it quite clever.
In respect to Reger, he never once resorted to this, and perhaps much of music actually holds up quite well compares to that composers that shortly succeeded him. But this doesn't make music "good." Nobody has to compare Bach to his contemporaries or successors to see the value in his music.
Ryder Richardson
No, he just heard the first 5 seconds from what i posted and said that it was weak melody
Luis Richardson
he, would be me. And no, its not a strong melody. What the hell is wrong with you? You don't know that a strong melody typically STICKS in someone's head? Who the fuck is going to remember all that riffing after one listening?
Tyler Cooper
Thanks for the encourage user i didn't see this I Will try to do it Are you a fellow pianist?
The poverty's of Reger's music is laid bare when he attempts to imitate Bach, having no melodic skill whatsoever, in immense contrast to Bach, producing music where whatever melodic and textural is there is a pastiche of Bach.
Really, these pieces sound like a parody of Bach at times.
Adam Ortiz
the only reason cooler heads are prevailing now is because of the lack of actual brain activity occurring.
Easton Thomas
>Catchiness=strong melody OH NO NO NONO
David Hall
Yeah i give you that Reger was a edgy Bach and this is a good thing for me at least
Austin Perry
why is his atonal music so listenable while other atonal music sounds like dogshit, except some bartok and schoenbergs piano concerto
I don't think you thought this response out. This is contrasting storminess and passion with intelligence, as if the more intelligent we acted, the less tranquil we would be.
If I were to assume the validity this contrast, I could say I deal with very "cool" heads here, now and generally.
Luis Campbell
nice blowjob lips, fuckboi!
Adrian Phillips
Hans, this is basic fucking physics dude. What the hell. Things producing work are hotter. What the fuck, Hans.
Kayden Evans
Is that the best you could come up with? Would you say your head was rather "warm" in producing it?
Gavin Reyes
I also though of this when i first saw this and i have the same lips
So its not like it has to appeal to the lowest common denominator but catchiness is absolutely essential. Its not essential to making a good fugue subject but if we're talking about what makes a good melody catchiness is an essential aspect.
Dylan Richardson
Was the best you could come up with being completely nonplussed by the analogy? Seems like it. Its time to dust off the old cobwebs on the reasoning center because right now, you're down to a brain stem.
Ian Nelson
I dunno if i'll put that reger cello piece to a girl or anybody they would say oh thats so nice user And if you put that Fucking Schoenberg SQ for someone you know what would happen m8 so sit the fuck down
Jordan Allen
The analogy was idiotic, and I responded exactly in the way it deserved.
Christian Lopez
My god man. Speak English, please.
Connor Martinez
I just don't know why you're insisting this particular piece is an example of good melody. I kind of doubt you actually listen to Reger with any degree of alacrity, if this was the first thing you thought of for a melody in the Reger catalog.
Julian Collins
OH NO NO NO he resorted to this Good night fag hope you get better your piece was not THAT bad in terms of muzak
Jace Barnes
>resorted
No, I'm pretty much standing firm on my original point. I'm just saying, we live in a society. Use punctuation for the love of FUCK!
Carter Gomez
Like I can't emphasize this enough. You're the problem here, not Reger.
Adam Price
I mean, frogfaggot/s, back me up here. Am I wrong? Aren't there more substantial melodies in Reger's oeuvre?
Like i said before i'm still analyzing the string quartets with score in hand I'm not an accomplished reger scholar yet i still haven't listened to all of his works yet How do i get into punctuation? You guys helped me with my english before
Jason Jackson
You're mistaken. Bartok himself would insist that he never wrote atonal music.
Dominic Lopez
I back you up in the ass m8
Leo Myers
Nevemind i gonna watch this later lmao FUCK the english language
Can you play a Scriabin Sonata m8? I can play the third
Grayson Cox
Okay, the greatest melody Reger wrote is a rehash of the Bach Cello suite. The answer has been LOCKED-IN by Reger aficionados. This definitely redounds positively on Reger's reputation as a composer.
Joshua Collins
I wanted to learn the 7th but its very hard
Logan Rogers
also not the guy you responded to just another wandering autist
Parker Watson
Ok a strong melody in a Reger quartet just came as i was reading this check the slow Movement of the first SQ
Jayden Hill
Scriabin past the 5 is impossible Now that i think of even the 4 is already impossible The third is kind of special is difficult but kinda easy because you see you are making progress as you try to learn it at least this was my case
Jack Brooks
I hate counterpoint
Josiah Harris
Then fuck off. Its one of the most essential elements of serious music.
Jose Howard
t. Poly after writing one of his "''''''''''"'""'fugues"''''''''''''''''
Okay once again. I'm not going to remember this. Perhaps Reger's shortcoming is how difficult it is to write a good fugue subject that is also a strong melody. Since he seems to like to perform fugal operations on his motives, maybe he is thinking of them as fugue subjects rather than stand-alone melodies. Of course Bach was a master of making memorable fugue subjects but nobody can touch Bach in that regard, nor be expected to.
John Scott
He also ends the first quartet(1) and the last quartet(5) with a fugue is so fucking kino you just know there's a colossal fugue waiting for you at the end I think there's another quartet that also ends with a fugue too but with i dont remember
Isaiah Rivera
Your language lacks punctuation? This seems hardly to be the most difficult aspect of English.
John Young
are the paragraphs worth reading (you must answer this in one sentence)
t. only clicks links and reads posts with 3 lines or less
Jacob Foster
>Ligeti >good Utter shit, mate. Whatever is remotely decent in this """""piece""""" Scriabin accomplished in the least of his works.
Jeremiah Flores
Getting a strong Hansian vibe from this post.
Brody Phillips
no
Nathaniel Price
I'm just lazy for writings things in 4channel i think The punctuation rules are the same for english and spanish probably I also know Portuguese/Brazil My head is Fucked up with languages
Carson Ramirez
I'm sorry you feel that way, can you expound on your reasoning?
Christopher Sullivan
Yes, by virtue of the fact every post is at least one paragraph in length.
The hilarious thing is that Hans is already coming around on Scriabin. It wont be too long before he's jamming out to the serialists.
Zachary Davis
Well I'm certainly not going to say anything as crude and predictable as "She gives me a Yuja Wang", if that's what you were thinking? She sucks tho, 4real.
I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. In truth, I don't care for much of Scriabin past his early works, but at least in his late works, he was extraordinarily original. I'm hearing nothing here that could not be found in Scriabin's late works, which I think we made worse to the extent that he departed from established models. Here, it sounds like a imitation of Scriabin. That it resembles more at times a person randomly banging on the piano more than Scriabin did makes it different, but not better.
If you could expound exactly why it's "very good," I might be disposed to explain why I think the exact otherwise. Asian Valentina Lisitsa. I'll leave it at that.
Xavier Wilson
New installment
Evan Hughes
New thread? I dont want to make it
Oliver Cooper
IT SOUNDS NOT ONE FUCKING WHIT LIKE SCRIABIN. TRAIN YOUR FUCKING EARS!
Caleb Taylor
dresses like a whore and not the best
Jacob White
It has been some time since I've been here. Although I still play the piano, I'm currently a CS undergrad. A scientific initiation scholarship has popped up in the Music Dept. of my uni for extraction and analysis of musical info through recordings (using ML and whatever).
What do you guys think about it? Anyone had to deal with things more computer/tech-related? Also, did Petzoldfag die?
Well, it's really like this, but more minimalist. This music is fairly minimalist already, and making it further so isn't improving things.
I would say there is a distinct difference between this music that of Ligeti's studies, but the difference make Ligeti's music worse, and Ligeti was hardly original in these works compared to Scriabin.
I don't really see what this music has to do with the Ligeti piece which is dodecaphonic and involves harmony built of fifths.
Sebastian Long
>dodecaphonic Irrelevant. With sufficient labor, well-known tonal pieces could be converted into this sort of anti-tonality, and this would not make the pieces original, and would not make them better. The 12-tone row does not make all concepts used in it original.
