Since the musically inimical influence of the Darmstadt school, with its austere protocols of composition -- which in true procrustean fashion reduced a vast majority of academic music to an unpalatable and aurally meaningless slop -- musical academia has gone in two directions, either just as illegitimate as the other. First there are those who continue to pursue the antimusic of the Darmstadt school, only improving on the overall silliness of previous extended techniques, finding more perverse ways for players to molest their oddly typical traditional instruments. On the other hand is the paltry school of minimalism, which takes its notes from popular music primarily and is fascinated with the most trivial musical minutiae, like common tone chords and pedal points with a single voice spelling out some sad excuse for a melody. Its this school where we find such unskilled composers as Philip Glass (The single biggest time-sink in Nadia Boulanger's pedagogical career; a man who, by his own admission doesn't know what he's doing), Steve Reich and eventually the sorry likes of Max Richter who had the nerve to write something called "Vivaldi Recomposed". This kind of music, is at best incidental music requiring a piece of celluloid to accompany it and at worst, and more probably, rock music for traditional ensembles. Even though this minimalist/postminimalist school claims to do something significant with so-called "post-African" rhythms, we find even the rhythmic content severely lacking when compared against Bartok or Messiaen or even going back as far as Brahms and Schumann. Hence we find ourselves at a most unique but entirely pathetic point in the development of "classical" music, a drawing and quartering that at one end is violently heading off the cliff of absolute conceit and at the other end is diving into the proletarian crowd below ready to body-surf into complete historical obscurity. This is where we find Mr. Richter's music.
>His work often combined the classical structures of these composers with the extended harmonies of Liszt and Wagner, to which he added the complex counterpoint of Bach. This is simply a recipe for success and it really does sound fabulous.
Except that he doesn't compare to any of those composers in tems of talent and skill.
Jayden Morris
Yeah the ignorants from /classical/ confuse his dense Counterpoint with lack of musical gesture These are probably the same """"""people""""""" who just pretend to like Bach for credit Its a very nice surprise to see how well regarded is Reger for Academic people like Hindemith Thank you fellow Frog
Not a YouTube channel, but Classical Classroom is a neat podcast with a ton of episodes. It has the production value of an NPR podcast, and covers a bunch of interesting topics.
On that note, does anyone know how to listen to the BBC R3 Composer of the Week podcast outside of the UK?
Reger the classic string quartet 1 I wish the later quartets were as raw and in-your-face as this Conservaticucks and modernistcucks alike probably told him to calm the fuck down with the Counterpoint
Also i finally found the absolute unit box set from which these recordings were ripped rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1650323 I didn't find it earlier because the madman uploaded it with the Complete name of reger Johann Baptist Joseph Maximilian Reger
Each and every composer on this list is exit level. Of course this is in the sense that you need to exit /classical/ right fucking now if you happen to listen to this garbage. Props for not adding Scott Joplin to the list since he just a Beethoven plagiarizing hack with meme progressions.
based really makes one think. As if america is truely a land devoid of culture
Jayden Jones
What is a good Domenico Scarlatti guitar sonatas recording/album?
Lincoln Brown
I didn’t make any comment about the quality of their music, I was just responding to a preposterous statement about the non-existence of american composers
How do you learn to read and write sheet music? How long did it take? Is it too hard?
Liam Taylor
It’s actually quite simple, assuming that by writing you don’t mean actually composing music but just being able to write down a musical idea on paper Start from this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation
Sebastian Harris
>Q1+2 honestly cant remember >3 much easier if you start off young
Daniel Davis
Thank you. By writing I suppose I do mean composing music, I have concepts in my head for instruments I don't play and I think learning how to write it all down for someone else to play it is the way to go.
Lucas Green
>I have concepts in my head for instruments I don't play In this case you should learn a bit about orchestration, a good book could be “The study of orchestration” by Samuel Adler
If you removed the pedal sustain from a piano, that would still make it a better instrument for interpreting Baroque keyboard works than the clavichord and the harpsichord.
Luke Gutierrez
Cage and Glass aren't composers, contrary to popular belief.
Austin Collins
You don't know what exit level means. It means the most sophisticated example of something. Bach is exit level.
Nolan Parker
Paragraphautist you can't read music
Nicholas Sullivan
True. Maybe something like CPE Bach writing a treatise on counterpoint.
Kevin Allen
Name such a composer (just 1)
Jeremiah Jones
yoko ono
Ayden Miller
Wait, no, it would be like Chopin writing a theory of orchestration, or sonata form, or Wagner writing a theory of piano composition, or Brahms writing a theory of program music.
Dominic Morgan
well this was quite good. First Reger I have ever enjoyed. But why did you only post half?
This, zchonberg literally killed harmony, zchoenbergfags are so fucking delusional in another thread someone even said that zchoenberg was a good contrapuntualist what in the actual Fuck?
Jonathan Ward
Full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. As you learn more, you will realize you don't actually know what you're talking about, and then as you learn even more, you will be able to comprehend a serious discussion.
Not familiar with his lesser known/organ works. Will check them out, thanks!
Levi Evans
Is there any doubt the closet predecessor to Chopin would be Schubert? I think there's a desire to make Chopin seem more original and sui generis than he actually was, which is why Bach and Mozart are mentioned as his strongest influences, (and they were undeniably his favorite his composers, at least if we look at his writing and what people said about him, while he said little in praise of Schubert). Schubert largely created the familiar and popular style that characterizes most of Chopin's works.
The gulf and advancement, however, between the quality of Chopin's works and Schubert's works could not be greater, (certainly, when it comes to solo piano miniatures), and frankly, few of Schubert's miniatures compare well to the least of Chopin's music. The advancement would be comparable of that existing from the music of Haydn, who originated the forms, to that of Mozart, or even Beethoven.
Samuel Diaz
Chopin built an entire career on copying the general aesthetic of one Mozart piece
>The gulf and advancement, however, between the quality of Chopin's works and Schubert's works could not be greater, (certainly, when it comes to solo piano miniatures), and frankly, few of Schubert's miniatures compare well to the least of Chopin's music. The advancement would be comparable of that existing from the music of Haydn, who originated the forms, to that of Mozart, or even Beethoven.
Are you going to say anything or is it going to be just fluff? We all know Chopin was influenced by Bach, Mozart, Field, Schubert and opera. But just as Schubert was an anomaly, so was Chopin. There is no predecessor when speaking about composers such as this; they are one of a kind.
>Handel I dont even know why i hate him so much i'm such a pseud
Logan Rivera
But have you heard his music with improvisations inspired by written accounts of his own playing style?
Connor Ross
So I thought I had found my mediocre symphony to fuck around with in audacity. Ultimately though, I decided, while not unique, it was much too good for this purpose. This is the work.
That piece was incredibly progressive for its time, but there's no need to resort to hyperbole. For one thing, it's not like I said Chopin was copying Schubert.
I would say this is actually a good find, and resembles Chopin's works more than any of works of Schubert's do, (if only because so much of what Schubert wrote that resembles Chopin's music was so weak). However, while several works of Beethoven's late period in many ways resembles modernist works more than that of his period, and many modernists have cited these late works as strong influences, it would be disingenuous to suggest that Beethoven ushered in modernism, which a great deal more musical development.
I would qualify my opinion to say that Schubert was the strongest influence of Chopin's miniatures, or Chopin's miniatures more close resembles that of Schubert's works than that of any previous composer. Rather ironic that you accuse me of writing fluff when your conclusion is just to say that each composer was an anomaly, as if pointing out musical similarities is somehow eroding the originality of composers. > There is no predecessor when speaking about composers such as this That's why I said "closest." For instance, the predecessor of Beethoven, at least in regard to his sonatas, was Clementi, which is hardly a controversial opinion. My point was that the similarity of Schubert to Chopin is understated.
Logan Gutierrez
>no u Shut the fuck up, Hans.
Jackson Ward
>First Reger I have ever enjoyed. Same. Shame on you Reger fanatics who never even post his actually good works, almost like you are deliberate contrarians who know most of what Reger wrote was garbage, and you post his consistently bad music just to be obnoxious.
John Reyes
Whatever
Luke Murphy
The similarity at the beginning is impressive
Jonathan Bennett
There are undoubtly some similarities in the harmonic inventiveness and overall intimist style/attitude, but I honestly don’t know if there was a direct influence of Schubert over Chopin
Christian Parker
Glad you like it but FUCK Off Counterpointlets you still can't into Reger if you dont like the in-your-face diabolical Reger Also pic related Based Boomer
These excerpts suggests more influence and respect Chopin had for Schubert than I thought: >Frederick Niecks >Speaking of playing duets reminds me of Schubert, who, Gutmann informed me, was a favourite of Chopin's. The Viennese master's "Divertissement hongrois" he admired without reserve. Also the marches and polonaises a quatre mains he played with his pupils. But his teaching repertoire seems to have contained, with the exception of the waltzes, none of the works a deux mains, neither the sonatas, nor the impromptus, nor the "Moments musicals." This shows that if Schubert was a favourite of Chopin's, he was so only to a certain extent. Indeed, Chopin even found fault with the master where he is universally regarded as facile princeps. >[Chopin made his students study the works] of Schubert[:] the Landler and all the waltzes and some of the duets (the marches, polonaises, and the Divertissement hongrois, which last piece he admired sans reserve)[.] So, it seems Chopin admired greatly Schubert, often in perhaps his least interesting works. I didn't even know Schubert had written polonaises. This confirms me more in my opinion that Chopin was influenced by Schubert than is generally suggested.
Brody Lewis
>you still can't into Reger if you dont like the in-your-face diabolical Reger Mind to share some examples of that? Maybe something for organ? That’s quite interesting, and I didn’t know any of that. Thanks for sharing.
Parker Lopez
Yep that was definitely one of the Mozart pieces that got me out of my Mozart underrating phase.
nope. I enjoy counterpoint immensely. Disliking one composer doesn't constitute a lack of interest in counterpoint, sorry chum.
Colton Long
Stop Hans-ing everyone you disagree with.
Luis Edwards
You can dislike a composer but to say Reger's counterpoint isn't good makes you a counterpointlet. It's objectively good. Deal with it. Also
Logan Martin
I Hans everyone who says nonsensical things. If you want to prove something isn't good, use actual musical terminology while talking about specific musical elements. Show your analysis. If you can't, shut the fuck up. If you try some fluffy shit like muh feels then you're going to get Hans'd, bitch.
Adrian Roberts
I don't take issue with his counterpoint, I take issue with his form. This is basically the same sentiment Richard Ratner intimated regading Reger's Clarinet Quintet. also
Jack Peterson
broke: Wagner joke: Liszt woke: Mussorgsky
Liam Martin
Also we don't all have to like the same composers. I probably like a composer that you don't like. A lot of people shit on Copland but I think he's great. What about the other Copeland tho. ;^)
Evan Harris
FUCK Off with your literally who Reger has a very personal unique style in Counterpoint and thats what you confuse with """"'''"'''"'""'"''"""""''''''''''""'"musical gesture""""'""''"""'''''''"""''''''""''''""""""""""" I would say its modern Counterpoint but is actually pretty fucking ancient >tfw too modern for conservatives and too conservative for modernists Regerfeels
So if you actually bothered to watch the lectures I've been linking, you would know that Faure and Saint Saens were part of an underground school of composition which had very different feelings about the place of chromaticism in music; the idea that basically chromatic notes can be used just for color, instead of serving a particular function within harmony. Unfortunately Adolphe doesn't mention who these Baroque and Classical era exponents were. So do any of you know earlier composers who came from this underground school?
>Reger had an acrimonious relationship with Rudolf Louis, the music critic of the Münchener Neueste Nachrichten, who usually had negative opinions of his compositions. After the first performance of the Sinfonietta in A major, Op. 90, on 2 February 1906, Louis wrote a typically negative review on 7 February. Reger wrote back to him: "Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im nächsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein!" ("I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!").[9][10]
Colton Bennett
Rather unfair to Liszt. However, I would say Mussorgsky, and the rest of The Five were far, far more successful in exploring new forms pioneered by Liszt. Comparing the best of Liszt's symphonic poems to similar works of The Five reveals how inadequate Liszt's powers were in matching quality with progressiveness.
I have only a slightly higher opinion of Wagner, whose works are divided between that of a handful of utter genius, but disconnected pieces, middling mediocrity, and ear-splittingly awful noise. I would be interested if there were a Russian that delivered on the promise of Wagner.
Perhaps Oresteria? I haven't listened long enough to say, but there are parts of undeniable beauty, (though nothing I've heard that approached the best of Wagner). It's a epic story similar to that of Wagner's Ring Cycle, features an orchestral style closer to Wagner than that of other Western scorist, (though, I have to say, on the whole better than Wagner),
But I haven't made the effort to even look for a version with English subtitles. I would be interested in other Russian operas, but they look like they would have taken non-Wagnerian operas as models.
Ayden Hill
Meant to reply to
Chase Harris
>Saint Saens were part of an underground school of composition Whatever was his school, it produced in him a colossal waste of talent. Some composers have genius, but are waste their talent in musical dissipation, (either progressives like Liszt, or conservatives like Czerny), but Saint-Saëns almost constantly gives the impression of someone who was paralyzed by the opposite impulses of progressiveness and conservatism, never finding the mostly serviceable medium that Brahms did.
Chase Diaz
Guys I need your help. What is that one song from I believe the late classical or early romantic period played entirely on violin that goes doo doodoodoodoo doo doo do doo doodoodoodoo DOO doo? Hopefully you know what I'm talking about.
Caleb Richardson
I know this is bait, but vocaroo or gtfo
Ian Campbell
Is this actually bait? Also, if somebody could recommend any solo violin piece from that period that's notable outside of Paganin's works, I would be interested.
Yes! Finally one down, three to go! Thanks. I was looking for that one for over a year. A little disappointed its so short and simple but still a nice tune.
Nolan Rogers
Very funny
William Roberts
It depends on what you mean by apocryphal. Mozart certainly did not write much of "his" Requiem, but everyone knows that, yet in some parts, it's uncertain whether it's largely the work of Mozart, or other composers. Also, whether Bach wrote transcribed the famous Toccata and Fugue in D minor, or had any part it it, is still up for debate. You're welcome.
Asher Wright
Pretzold
Bentley Turner
even Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D minor is believed to have spurious origin.
Carson Butler
About Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D minor I personally find very interesting the hypothesis that it is an organ trascription (by Bach or someone else) of an original piece by Bach for solo violin. I’ve also heard on YouTube some attempts at transcribing the piece back for solo violin and to me they sound very convincing.
And by the way by apocriphal I meant famous misattributed pieces like Petzold’s Menuet or Giazotto “Albinoni’s Adagio” (although the latter could actually be a musical hoax)
Caleb Wilson
I am familiar with the theory, but this is the first time I've listened to a transcription. I must say, I am surprised and how well the piece reduces to that of a violin.
However, if the version attributed to Bach is indeed a transcription, I only he wish he had transcribed his Chaconne in the same manner, and perhaps even that work could have been elevated to the same extent the hypothetical original solo violin version of the Toccata and Fugue was.
Blake Powell
>Shoenberg put him on as high a plain a Mahler and Richard Struass For once, I concur entirely with Shoenberg, but strictly in this phraseology, and perhaps not in the sense that he intended.
Sebastian Stewart
Well after your remark I discovered that a transcription for organ of the Chaconne exists and it sounds very good (and convincing, maybe Bach transcribed this one too) as well! youtu.be/yd43Oedl4Co
Jordan Stewart
Why do you dislike Reger again? Ah wait you said you struggle with Counterpoint with more than 2 voices The Counterpointlet meme is real
I don't like it. Whether the Chaconne can't be transcribed, (at least not for Organ), or only Bach could knew precisely how to ornament his own pieces, this transcription for organ is less successful. I adore Bach at his densest, and despise Reger at his simplest, (though I am enjoying his Requiem), so that probably is not it.
Reddit says this is the best Chaconne recording. To me, it's not inferior compared to that of other performances, and the tone is excellent, but it's annoying slow and metronomic.
Did they also tell you the best cuck cage to wear?
Hahn is the very definition of sterile perfection. Quite frankly, it's the real reason classical has gone down the tubes popularity wise, everyone who had the skill and nerve to set the music on fire has disappeared and left uninspiring autonomous drones in their wake. Hahn has probably never played a wrong note in her life. She also wouldn't even make concert master in the time of Heifetz.
Heifetz is my favorite Chaconne, as I feel he doesn't shy away from the obvious dramatic tension inherent in the piece, but Grumiaux, Milstein, Menuhin, Szeryng, etc there's a bunch of great versions of this most personal of works, including the piano transcriptions. Only someone devoid of passion could turn something so inspired into a metronomic exercise.
Sebastian Sanchez
>Hahn >The best anything
hell no. Grimiaux, Menuhin, and even even Milstein blow her out of the water on Bach solo violin performances and recordings
>Fugue starts on a minor major seventh chord absolute madman
Connor White
Doesn't a fugue start with 2 voices? How can you get the context for a minor-major 7th chord at the start of a fugue?
Bentley Carter
>How can you get the context for a minor-major 7th chord at the start of a fugue? the melody outlines it. Even a single melody usually implies harmony (as a fugue usually starts with a single voice). If you listen to the fugue, its a pretty prominent minor-major 7th at the start of the subject
Henry Moore
okay. Do you happen to know what chord Mozart's adagio and fugue starts on?
The Adagio starts with a C minor chord The Fugue’s implied harmony is a G major chord
Blake Mitchell
Both the Adagio and the fugue start on C minor chords, as is generally the way with pieces in a certain key - they start on the tonic. The only reason the Barber piece starts on a minor-major 7th chord, is because that type of chord is most often used as a minor tonic substitute.
Samuel Cooper
Yeah, I fucked up, I meant the fugue. Okay, so why does that fugue sound so weird then? (assuming either of you are right)
Ryder Ward
Would you at least allow the sound is nice, so props to the sound engineer?
Nolan Torres
No Hans, I wouldn't. But I think you've found a new home.
Leo Ward
Well, then we don't agree. I said the sound was great, and I stick by it. The other versions you posted might be better as interpretations, but the sound of Hahn's recording is excellent.
One peculiar thing about the theme is that almost every note of the theme is preceded by the chromatic addition of a note a semitone lower. By delaying the resolution of all these chromaticisms Mozart also keeps adding the major seventh to many vertical harmonies throughout the piece
Tyler Rodriguez
>mfw I'm actually contemplating buying a subscription to Jstor
>the idea that basically chromatic notes can be used just for color, instead of serving a particular function within harmony So basically impressionism, you gargantuan fucking retard.
Cameron Perry
Based Schoenkike. The older and more educated I get, the more I appreciate him (his music as well). He dindu nuffin wrong.
>JJBerthume based and redpilled. that weird twink always inspired me somehow. great channel
Logan Miller
>Sonata in E flat minor Whoa, absolutely based
Lincoln Gomez
>tfw you will never marry scriabin's daughters , make them pregnant, and continue Scriabin's legacy Why even live
Christopher Bailey
Hey guys, soon I'm going to a concert with two Schubert symphonies (4 and 5) and two Ligety concertos (Romanesc concerto and violin concerto). What do you think?
I just hate Yea Forumsfags they are so pretentious and alot of them are here
I can't answer this right since Reger is a Goldmine and I still haven't heard most of his works he wrote so much but the first and last string quartet both ends with a colossal Fugue and check the inferno organ fugue I already posted in this thread
Aiden Foster
Not really. Maybe some people recommend a couple of interpretations, but rarely this many. The last time I remember this happening was when somebody, who was clearly very familiar with Wagner, recommended the best versions of various of his operas. This was maybe two weeks ago.
Matthew Allen
Best recording of Saint-Saëns' Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso?
>Asian players Has anybody reputable said what we all think: that they're generally extremely proficient technically, but consistently lacking in interpretational ability? This could be said of modern classical musicians generally, but especially so for Asian players. So do I, but that is still a good piece.
Jordan Ramirez
that's not an asian thing but a contemporary thing. Valentina Lisita and Hillary Hahn are the same way.
Thomas Walker
This.
Asher Myers
>I just hate Yea Forumsfags they are so pretentious and alot of them are here Your complex is showing user. Also state one person here in this general right now who isn't pretentious, you pretentious fuck.
I'm not the only one who post tuxedos frogs There's one who always post the Frog with chess Thats not me But if you see someone shilling or defending with very bad english Reger/Bruckner/Zelenka/webern/nicolas gombert/weinberg/Dallapiccola/Gesualdo/Mangoré/Scarlatti/Beethoven's Grosse fugue and sometimes even defending Ives or calling you a Pianocuck, Counterpointlet, memelet with a Tuxedo Frog Thats me Also i literally discovered Reger through /classical/ so Reger is Obviously /classical/core
Again, I don't have a high opinion of contemporary musicians generally from an interpretational perspective, as I agree, this is a problem that has plagued modern contemporary performances for some time. Still, I think it's a problem that particularly plagues Asian musicians. I think the general tenor of their ability has long surpassed the Russians, and while they are generally not considered the best pianists still is that that their interpretation ability is quite weak. >Scarlatti That's the exception of your list. Nobody needs to defend Scarlatti, who was undeniably the second-greatest Baroque composer for solo keyboard. Maybe his other works deserve more exposure, though.
Hunter Brooks
kek. Accurate
Brayden Robinson
Do you listen Scarlatti in an instrument with pedal sustain?
Ryan Ross
t. Couldn't come up with anything better so I had to meme my way out of this
I see now that probably, the lack of good Asian pianists, (with the most notable one in history being Lang Lang, who is hardly to their credit), is not so great that somebody needs to make a borderline-racist remark and ruin their career as a result.
However, I wonder if anybody notable has remarked on how the only real merit modern musicians generally have is strong textual fidelity and technical skills. Yes, as well as Bach.
Michael Murphy
Pianocuck Can't you read Music?
Nathan Davis
Well it's only to be expected. Many of them are the first generation exposed to western classical music, you can't expect that to immediately supercede the past.
In this respect, it's utterly baffling how Europeans have basically completely turned their back on their own heritage. There's not a whiff of Furtwangler or Toscanini's spirit to be found on the continent anymore.
But maybe it's not really that big a mystery. After all, nearly all of the best instrumentalists were Jewish.
David Williams
Lang Lang was a PR gimmick from the beginning. Yundi Li for a time seemed quite promising, but ultimately couldn't breakthrough to the mainstream.
Unfortunately, at this point I think classical audiences have been so conditioned to sterile, stifling "proper" performance, that even if a genuine virtuoso were to appear, they'd probably be scorned. The classical world has become entirely too institutionalized to accept individual genius anymore.
Colton Mitchell
>The classical world has become entirely too institutionalized to accept individual genius anymore You mean people like Gould?
Jonathan Rogers
Do you want to make an argument as to why one should prefer keyboard instruments without tone, or even early fortepianos, or is it just going to be personal remarks? >In this respect, it's utterly baffling how Europeans have basically completely turned their back on their own heritage. If I had to guess, it would be appeal to effectively the lowest-common denominator for classical music fans, or connoisseurs, which is appealing to their sense of virtuosity, which is more immediately recognizable than subtle interpretational ability. I also think recordings have become so prevalent and people consume almost all their classical music in this manner that they are more interested in hearing live a "standard" interpretation than something that is unfamiliar to them. This also applies to how much standard repertoire has shrunk, so the foremost pianists are largely playing what everybody else plays, with very few talented exceptions who are immensely skilled and devote their talents to exposing people to new or obscure composers, like Hamelin. (I would say Hamelin is generally a very deficient player interpretationally, though his style is perfectly suited to some of Alkan's best works). Perhaps there are other reasons, but these are the ones that occur to me. >After all, nearly all of the best instrumentalists were Jewish. This is an exaggeration. Certainly, the Jews have disproportionately produced more capable craftsmen in this field, but then this is no more true for music than for other professions. >Yundi Li A very capable pianist, but it still has to be questioned whether he is bringing anything that the world needs. This would be an extreme example, but yes.
Dominic Lee
>There's not a whiff of Furtwangler or Toscanini's spirit to be found on the continent anymore. Explain what you mean by this
Chase James
is schubert pronounced shoe-bert or scu-bert
William Garcia
shoe-beer
Brandon Robinson
You can't read music and you were Cucked by the Steinway grand piano Scarlatti was a genius Harpsichordist and even Harpsichord maker his whole Music screams Harpsichord I give you that listening to bach in the piano is ok because Bach is Bach and his music is so abstract it will sound good even in a Farting quartet but you're still a pianocuck by listening to Bach in the Piano, Bach hated the piano and i'm sure Bach and Scarlatti in front of the modern Grand piano they would transcribe their Harpsichord works in total Different works an example of this are Bach transcriptions of his own works
Sebastian White
>Bach hated the piano citation needed
Jonathan Brown
I'm not seeing or hearing any inherent reason why Scalatti is more appropriate for the harpsichord, especially since he was largely rediscovered on the piano, (either by Chopin or Horowitz), and there's a great deal of evidence that Scarlatti had the fortepiano in mind when compising his sonatas. >challengerecords.com/products/1391601385 >At this early stage, the fortepiano was a weak-sounding instrument whose dark sonority lacked the bright and silvery tones of the harpsichord. Its range was only four octaves, but it already possessed considerable potential for dynamic shading and tonal nuance. Many of Scarlatti’s early sonatas seem to be conceived for this instrument: indeed, their range exactly matches that of Florentine fortepianos, while their instrumental language often does not fit the harpsichord as well, since it lacks the brightness and magnificence typical of Scarlatti’s more idiomatic sonatas. Of course this is only an assumption, as, in his sonatas, Scarlatti never mentions the fortepiano explicitly. On the other hand, the correspondence of some both musical and historical elements – the queen’s will, the presence of Farinelli, the range of many sonatas, the instrumental language – makes this assumption so plausible that I decided to put it into practice by assigning some of the sonatas in this recording to the fortepiano. >transcribe their Harpsichord works in total Different works an example of this are Bach transcriptions of his own works
Aiden Sanders
>transcribe their Harpsichord works in total Different works an example of this are Bach transcriptions of his own works Very likely, Mozart and Beethoven would not have written their works exactly as they did for the modern grand piano. The same would probably be said of Chopin as well. Yet, I see none of these suppositions as strong reasons to in insist on historically accurate instruments.
Ryan Parker
>Bach hated the piano Nope, he greatly approved of pianos, even helped to promote them. There is an instance of him disliking some early models he heard, but he gave some advice to improve them, and later was very happy with the results.
Brody Long
I'm not gonna spoonfeed you if you dont know every Fucking fact about bach discussion is not fun I had the same fucking discussion with poly and it was fun because he can actually read music you know
Anthony Jackson
Nodoby mentioned mozart or beethoven
Dominic Baker
UnknownDecember 26, 2017 at 7:58 AM Well... The fact that he sold a piano a year before he died and was already completely blind doesn't tell you he liked them either. I hate fish, but if selling sardines puts money in my pocket, I would sell it. As for the transciptions: Bach's own transcriptions already give you an answer. Yes, he transcribed violin concertos for harpsichord. But he took into account the different tone and harmonic qualities of each instrument and adapted the music to it. I am 100% sure that if Bach would have known, for example, a Steinway grand piano, he would have "transcribed" his music differently than he did for harpsichord.
And? I'm implying your argument leads to an absurdity, or at least the question is raised why we should rely on historical accuracy for Baroque composers, but not Classical or Romantic composers.
If it's a mere question of aesthetics, I can say that my taste does not prefer Scarlatti on the harpsichord, and if there is an argument that is valid or convincing that would change my taste, you have not given it. >I am 100% sure that if Bach would have known, for example, a Steinway grand piano, he would have "transcribed" his music differently than he did for harpsichord. That most that follows from this is that Bach's transcriptions should not be played on piano, which excludes the vast, vast majority of his keyboard works.
You can't read music hans I not arguing about classical and romantic composers do you have autism? Oh no wait Also would you listen to your darling chopin in the Harpsichord? yep thats how stupid it is to listen to scarlatti in the piano
Chase Turner
>t.jew
Ayden Martin
Unfairly obscure composer. He, and to a lesser degree, Cimarosa, are the best composers who continued the Italian style of keyboard composition after Scarlatti. I actually prefer Soler generally over Scarlatti, who seems to have been more consistent, even if Scarlatti's best is better, and Scarlatti was more prolific. I'm showing how your argument is invalid, as it leads to an absurdity. >yep thats how stupid it is to listen to scarlatti in the piano That doesn't follow. Dynamics are essential to romantic composers, and can't be reproduced on the harpsichord. The piano has no comparable disadvantage. If the lack of dynamics is equally important for Baroque works, (which is questionable, as certainly, plenty of Bach's keyboard works were based on violin pieces where dynamics where necessary), then it's a matter of playing more evenly, in which this quality in the harpsichord can be recreated.
Are these really the best arguments that can be made for inditing on Scarlatti being played on the harpsichord? If so, you should really just say it's just matter of taste. Literally nothing you are saying is remotely convincing. You would be better to stick to personal remarks, as it would at least suggest you have better arguments to use which you deem me unworthy to hear.
Owen Jackson
I didn't even mentioned classical and romantic composers reeeeeeee you just change all you see and fart a paragraph You can't read music bye sweetie
Joseph Gray
>As for the transciptions I didn't mention transcriptions.
Your post did not disprove my point about Bach greatly approving pianos.
Robert Anderson
I can read music just fine being a piano player. I have never heard about Bach hating the piano as an instrument, although it seems he wasn't exactly in necessity to buy one for himself. Bach is also known to have had a lute harpsichord (which he helped to design himself) which is told to have been one of his favorite instuments. The softer timbre of a lute harpsichord itself, which is not all that unlike that of a modern piano when played softly, is at least a point to be taken into consideration when defending playing Bach on the piano. Bach also wanted to evoke cantabile playing in his inventions, which is definetly much more wholly realized when played on a piano than when played on a harpsichord.
Ethan Stewart
I'm not convinced you actually think this is a cogent style of arguing. I'm not convinced anybody thinks so either. I think the attempt here is that you make me think I think you are making a cogent argument, so I'm frustrated that you are so self-satisfied with such blatant speciousness. For that, you would have had to put in more effort so I could have plausibly thought you weren't merely pretending to be retarded. It does give me some satisfaction to think, however, that there was a point where you were probably earnest, giving arguments you thought were persuasive, but then you switched to the tactic of trying to perturb me once I easily exploded your reasoning. I think Angela Hewitt made the valid point that there is no issue interpreting Bach on the piano, if only because there were transcriptions by him for keyboard of violin pieces that allowed and required dynamics. I personally don't care much for her interpretations, or interpretations of Bach's keyboard works that contain dynamics comparable to music of later periods, but it's a good defense of the piano in interpreting Bach.
Andrew Barnes
Paragraphautist is the one who can't read music and i'm also a piano player i'm aware of the lautenwerk instrument your argument is valid
>mfw I study musicology (German edition) >also other humanities >read for hours with unbroken concentration, cementing and synthesising knowledge through peer discourse >professor directly supervises my thesis, we enjoy a fruitful academic correspondence >throw Bacchanalian orgies, reveling in the pleasure of the flesh >go to museums and concerts and read literature in my free time >flawlessly deliver compelling presentations that span a variety of disciplines >am aware of my inevitable ethnographic and ideological biases, undauntedly sail between the syclla of objectivity and the charybdis of subjectivity >can effortlessly recall nuanced concepts from years ago >have a diverse and eclectic mix of friends, celebrate people for their ideas
also >be top of my class >professors can't wait to give me work >mfw guaranteed job doing what I love (music) Stay jelly.
Each time I take my pipe ’n tobacco With goodly wad filled to the brim For fun and passing time with pleasure, It brings to me a thought so grim And adds as well this doctrine fair: That I’m to it quite similar. The pipe is born of clay terrestrial, Of this I am as well conceived. Ah, one day I’ll become earth also – It falls and breaks, before ye know’t, And often cracks within my hand: My destiny is much the same. The pipe our wont is not to color, It’s always white. And thus I think That I as well one day while dying In flesh at least shall grow as pale. But in the tomb my body will Be black like it when used at length. When now the pipe is lit and burning, We witness how within a trice The smoke into thin air doth vanish, Nought but the ashes then are left. And thus is mankind’s fame consumed, Its body, too, in dust assumed. How oft it happens when we’re smoking That, when the tamper’s not at hand, We use our finger for this service. Me thinks, then, when I have been burned: Oh, if these cinders cause such pain, How hot indeed will hell yet be? I can amidst such formulations With my tobacco ev’rytime Such practical ideas ponder. I’ll smoke therefore contentedly On land, at sea and in my house My little pipe adoringly.
that would be me (also German edition) if I wasn't a drug addict
Zachary Howard
New Edition
James Hill
>nigger >le sad string music ;_; >fag >m*dernist with no musical content >le no music XDDD >literally the worst minimalist, could've at least picked Riley or Young... Truly sad. America is a wild, rootless place that should stick to plucking their guitars and letting niggers play their jazz, instead of pretending that they're cultured
Connor Wood
true, but not when played by that faggot. Try this instead
