I can count on one hand the Beethoven sonatas I enjoy. I prefer several of Beethoven symphonies in Liszt's transcriptions. I think Chopin's orchestration in his first piano concerto is excellent. I think Beethoven's Ninth Symphony is highly overrated, or at least lack of cohesion in the first two movements seems to be overlooked. I struggle with counterpoint beyond two voices.
Gavin Jenkins
>I struggle with counterpoint beyond two voices.
You mean writing or listening? I'm pretty sure most of the general doesn't even write music, so this is hardly a confession. Inventions are a perfectly noble category of academic music.
William Campbell
What's some stuff like Sibelius? Specifically his fifth symphony. No bully pls.
Xavier Clark
Listening. This is especially problematic in fugues, where, however much I enjoy the music, I feel like I'm able to understand only the most prominent melodies that are perceivable in chaos.
Dominic Torres
Its always particularly hard to hear the inner voices. There really isn't much to be done other than reading the score.
I can't stand Wagner and am baffled by his strong appeal his music has had with various great composers and people general. It should take only a few minutes to realize his music is ear-piercingly bad, and that his stories are silly, yet both elements seem to have the opposite impression on some people.
Gavin Williams
Oh, well that's good to know, I suppose.
Lucas Moore
You're certainly not alone there. I think he's mostly regarded as a great innovator because of his ability to suspend tonality without leaving the conventions of his day completely in bedlam.
I don't see the appeal of Berlioz either, lol. At least Wagner has some undeniable "hits." For Berlioz, I've never heard a single notable bar of his music. For a mere connoisseur, is it worth learning to "read" music just to appreciate it more?
Not a commie, but I suspect capitalism is ultimately at fault for the lack of great composers writing in the Classical tradition. However, it's not like the socialists produced any great composers either, as their best composers grew up in countries prior to the socialist revolutions or regime changes.
Ryder Myers
Well, it sounds much worse, that's for sure.
Luis Lee
I enjoy Mozart's sonatas much more consistently than I do Beethoven's.
Zachary Peterson
I thought it sounded better :^), PA
Hudson Diaz
it's because there is nothing new to write
David Sanders
that's just being plain ol' BASED
My confession is that I regard Mozart's Sonatas as his weakest works for keyboard.
Adrian Miller
I disagree, but as soon as I mention pieces that clearly are new and original, people will mock me for liking incidental music.
Parker Kelly
No. People are just lazy and don't want to put in the effort. They would rather make simple new-agey shit based on basic arpeggios than write actual music.
Samuel Lewis
I've spent numerous hours trying to learn piano, in which I started with insanely difficult pieces, (etudes by Chopin, Liszt, and Alkan), or pieces that bored me so much, I couldn't keep going.
Cameron Hughes
I should say, new and original and good, even if they are familiar or hardly avant-garde.
Cooper Miller
>write actual music
what do you mean by this
Gabriel Martinez
There was some asian dude who was jacked and played violin and piano and composed music and posted his shit here years ago -- does anyone remember him? I can't find anything in my bookmarks. He had some good stuff.
Camden Moore
I usually don't even bother with chamber music, even for composers I adore, as I've tried so hard to appreciate it, but fail every time.
Samuel Wood
I think beethoven's piano concerto 5 is his best work
can you put this into words? there are many differences
Ryder Young
Why put it into words when the words are just a poor attempt of describing the actual differences that exist between the pieces that are clearly heard upon listening to them. That's like looking at a sunset and asking someone to sketch what they see on a napkin with two crayons. You're going from the pure essence to some distilled abstraction.
Colton Sanders
The most obnoxious opinion in music is that Haydn was better than Mozart.
Saint-Saens best work was his Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso, with his Dance Macabre in a close second. The symphonies and concertos are 90% filler, and the Carnival of the Animals is decent, but silly.
Jordan Hernandez
>For a mere connoisseur, is it worth learning to "read" music just to appreciate it more?
Of course it is. What a dumb question. If there are people in this general who can't read music, I invite them to fuck off for a couple months until they can.
William Jenkins
Nothing ruins a recording more than recording a keyboard piece with a pianoforte.
Ian Morgan
No, that's hardly expressed by anyone. The most annoying one is that Beethoven was better than Mozart; usually expressed with the idea that he innovated more (which is a total fallacy).
Christopher Davis
What's the best way to learn how?
Hudson King
I don't hold that opinion, but I can see how somebody could believe it. Beethoven and Mozart's music is extremely different, so it could be a matter of taste, with Haydn and Mozart, however, they are at least very similar composers, only in every respect Mozart is different, he is superior, and Haydn's greatest contributions where the invention of forms that Mozart perfected, which perhaps makes music more original and perhaps important, but not better. It would be like preferring Field's nocturnes to that of Chopin's, just because Field invented the form.
Eli Lee
The most consistently enjoyable composer was Chopin, even if he evolved too little, (even considering his short life). Beethoven is frequently too obscure, there is too much uniformity in Mozart's works, and so much of Bach's vocal music is a tremendous bore.
Caleb Roberts
Just wondering what Paragraphautist would think of Richard Ratner's great work, the piano quintet.
It goes without saying that it sounds terrible, but who would be the composer whose style resembles it the most? It sounds familiar, but I can't place my finger on it. I sort of want to be able to discuss it at some point with him, meaning saying everything I can about it except what I actually think, so remarks on it would be helpful.
Keyboard instruments prior the piano seem mostly obsolete to me, at least for solo keyboard works, and keyboardists would be better off trying to imitate the sounds of those instruments on pianos than play on instruments which have incomparably less music.
Isaiah Adams
With the advances of audio recording and playback technology, going to concerns has become a waste of money. The only time where it's worth it is if you what you see is important, like a ballet or opera, or when you want to be able to watch a virtuoso, which means you have to sit very close and spent a lot on tickets.
Hudson Roberts
Man, with friends like you who needs enemies? I mean its not the greatest, but is it really as bad as you say? I wouldn't say so, especially in light of the Nico Muhly's and Max Richter's of the world.
I would say the music could be favorably compared to that of Ned Rorem. Maybe that's who you're thinking of.
I don't even have a reddit account, but occasionally visiting r/classicalmusic/ when links come up in Google searches shows again and again that there are far more people smarter and knowledgeable there about music than almost everyone this general.
Noah Morris
This performance is not only that great, but I don't see why this needs to be on harpsichord.
I should also say that the organ is the obvious exception this dislike of non-piano keyboard instruments.
I like it : ) I think the piano's softer timbre that doesn't work as well for baroque styles in my opinion although it's probably just a matter of what you're used to.
Alexander Ramirez
Well, this music and anything resembling it could never appeal to me ever, so I'm just being honest, but I would never tell him my opinion. It's especially disappointing because we used to have very similar tastes in music, and his has changed very much, while mine have stayed almost entirely the same.
No, this isn't it. Thanks for the suggestion though. This music is much better. It's closer than some music I've listened to to try to find similar music, but there's something distinct about the melodies and the thin textures in my friend's piece. Maybe I've just imagined similar music, or maybe the textures only seem thin when the music is being rehearsed.
Colton Lewis
I would have thought so too, but then I heard Gould's interpretations of Bach, and I am convinced there is nothing baroque that cannot be interpreted better on the piano.
I say no bully because I already know /classical/ dislikes some of my favorites like vaughan williams and handel so I can't be sure when announcing what I like.
Isaac Martinez
confession: ive never listened to Mahler or Liszt
Camden Davis
Any other stuff like Perotin?
Isaac Garcia
Nikolai Medtner is one of the greatest composers of all time, and deserves to be mentioned in the very highest tier.
Ryan Fisher
I tried starting piano with Debussy's Études and wanted to kill myself after I didn't get past the first 8 measures of etude 1 in a week at a moderate tempo
Any piano bros have any pieces or études they'd recommend working on? Shite pianist but I have a good grasp on theory, looking to better my coordination and get more comfortable on the instrument (yes I know I will never be a virtuoso)
i still tune to a=440Hz when playing pre 1750's music
Nathan Ramirez
j
Juan Anderson
Your opinion is straight-up mediocre.
Josiah Murphy
>They would rather make simple new-agey shit based on basic arpeggios You have no idea what classical musicians have been doing for the past 50 years, do you?
Josiah Long
based and redpilled
Luis Mitchell
Prove it. And name his best pieces and recordings of said pieces and I will check them all out.
Jordan Taylor
>there are people on /classical/ right now who listen to Baroque music in an instrument with pedal sustain
Robert Morales
>there are people on /classical/ right now
Mason Parker
>Paragraphautist can't even read Music Imagine my shock And this is the person who gives you lectures about classical music
Cameron Phillips
>It's especially disappointing because we used to have very similar tastes in music, and his has changed very much, while mine have stayed almost entirely the same.
Guess you have some growing up to do.
William Rogers
These are all very contrarian opinions, congratulations. Except for the last one, that one is because of your receptive channels; polyphony is a bitch and you can't hear melodic development and harmony at the same time so basically you don't know what the fuck you're listening to.
Henry Morgan
It should be well known to /classical/ users by now that paragraphautist is a fucking idiot. He's on the left hand side of the Dunning-Kruger graph - full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. If he would learn more, he would realise that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. But that's like expecting a fish to climb a tree.
Lucas Clark
Pianocucks will never understand
Of course this """"" person""""""" who can't even analyze a score would prefer being pianocuck And now one of my many favs recordings in harpsi of the WTC played by Hans Pischner Very controversial tempo and technique(HIP scholars were not that advanced yet in 60s so he goes on his way) very unique may i say the Glen Ghoul of the Harpsichord youtu.be/bC5rWZR5iZ4
This is on rutracker But his goldberg variations can be pretty hard to find
Concert virgin detected. The sound and dynamics are much better live in the concert hall than on your $1000 snake oil audio system. Also the seats in the front suck, the sound is better when you are seated in the back.
Henry Cooper
Just writing what I enjoy user. Sorry if the word 'fugue' gets you in a confrontational mood. I've wanted to write them since I was 14 when I tried to transcribe Bach's art of fugue by ear (nowadays I can just look at the score thanks to sites like imslp.org). Learned how to do them properly a few years back and have been writing them ever since. Can't seem to stop.
hes arguing that live performance is superior to listening via recording im with him on this one
Julian Reed
Why do you faggots keep on bashing Mahler again? I really liked his 6th symphony.
Asher Anderson
people just dont have the attention span for an hour of funeral marches and death for 10 mins of some of the most incredible glory in all of the symphonic literature at the end. obviously theres other shit to appreciate too
Isaiah Perez
Most of us like Mahler He is just very memeable Cuck memes, firetruck memes and Mahlerfags sometimes are very reddit and delusional saying things like he is a good contrapuntialist
He had one of the best orchestration games in history tho
Most of us like him. The haters just don't have the attention span or brain capacity to sit through 100 minutes of symbolism and jumping between the transcendental and traditional banal children's folk songs.
Andrew Sanders
>Holy shit at this nigga using tone clusters like is the 20th century Post this NOW
i was just looking at pic related, and just realised i could be NEET as fuck as a preist, but able to sustain a life whilst doing serious musicology for church business. am i delusional or is this the life
I didn't find the recording of scott ross but this hobo looking faggot plays it even more violently
Also show me your powerlevel Name your fav Harpsichordist
Jayden Gray
In the fall of 2016 I was listening to one of Mozart's serenades for winds every day. Then to my surprise I saw there was going to be a concert at the local music college where they would play that exact piece, and so I went. I was disappointed and actually liked the mp3 on my cheap smartphone with cheap earphones better. But I've been to a handful of concerts there and in general yeah the sound is better live. I think it was that particular venue they played in that time that had bad acoustics. It was one of their concert venues but it's probably not a very good one.
Andrew Nelson
no one takes those vows seriously, so i think you're good user
Luke Jackson
>Name your fav Harpsichordist I only know one so it's got to be him, Ton Koopman. If anything his body language is funny to watch. He was also the conductor of a performance of Haydn's drumroll symphony that used to be on youtube but was taken down, which was the performance that converted me from at the time mostly enjoying baroque and not so much classical era, to getting the classical era music and preferring it. Also, off topic, a bit disappointing that Bach would write a piece on such a mundane subject as coffee. youtube.com/watch?v=nifUBDgPhl4
Dominic Perry
Why? If I resented him for it, that would be one thing, but it's something I just lament. I don't see how I could handle it any more maturely.
If I had less confidence in the ability to defend my opinions, I wouldn't share that, but I have become so convinced that people here are so utterly incapable of making cogent argument that I am perfectly willing to express that deficiency on part. If it would give people here enough confidence to actually try to give argument, I would welcome it. >He's on the left hand side of the Dunning-Kruger graph - full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. This is Marxist levels of robotic parroting.
Cooper Butler
I only wish I heard in Medtner what his warmest admirers do or did, (including Rachmaninoff, Tovey, and Hamelin).
Brayden Miller
I don't care for Medtner, but I would dare to call it music, unlike the second thing you posted, so based.
Considering he was able to become as distinguished as a full-time composer while working as a doctor and chemist, I'm finna have to agree with you, family.
Connor Long
Yay first vote! I voted after what I listen to actively. If you include music that's playing in the gym, at work etc. then it's way lower than the 99% I voted. Also, on the rare occasions I'm with a woman I listen mostly to crap music (i.e. nonclassical) because that's what they like.
Juan Rodriguez
Is there any way to pirate from Jstor? I keep seeing articles that look like they would be interesting but, really, what kind of cuck pays for academic papers?
It really amazes me how you see people who are christian or muslim and then they like the most degenerate music. Like one woman who goes to church, her friend started playing latin dance music, and I could see the first woman seemed to think it was good, but to me it was degenerate garbage. Then another woman who also goes to church also liked degenerate garbage music. I think they lack the sensitivity to appreciate classical and also the sensitivity to perceive how degenerate their music is.
Jace Hall
>unironically using the term "degenerate" to define music You have to go back to
Nolan Moore
are you saying there is no such thing as degenerate music?
Ryder Ross
Yes
Blake Wright
lol ok
Austin Taylor
Okay, define to me what is "degenerate music". I expect something more than just >le jewish boogeyman XD meme
So basically you consider non-classical music degenereate.Right?
John Baker
yes
Ryder Robinson
Beethoven is in my top three alongside Schubert, I also enjoy Wagner's operas. I haven't listened to anything past Stravinsky who I only absentmindedly lent an ear to. I enjoy listening to old french folk songs and think they are on par to classical music.
Juan Jenkins
Why single out Can't Stop of all things?
Angel Cooper
that mozart link is degenerate because it is not written in the baroque style and contains little, if any, counterpoint
Jace Reyes
heard a rhcp song at work and thought about how degenerate it was, not sure if it was that one
Nicholas Johnson
>Marxist levels of robotic parroting muh marxism is not an argument. Shut the fuck up, Hans. You better stay away from politics because you're exactly the type of retard to go balls deep into it and misunderstand everything.
Luis Foster
Oh and I can't read music either
Thomas Taylor
>confession: I have no clue about classical music. Don't worry, most people ITT don't. Especially the paragraph autist.
>If you have the innate sensitivity you'll just know when you hear it. HAHA holy shit we got another muh feels Pfitzner over here. Get the fuck out of here, /pol/tard.
Okay but this meme isn't going to work if we just call all the posters we disagree with "Hans". That title must be reserved for the autist.
Christopher Morales
10 year old oboist, good but doesn't sound flawless to me youtube.com/watch?v=JJBUai5kvkU no but I will call you shitskin, woman or gay because clearly you are one of those
Ayden Hernandez
*priests being exploded with dynamite together with their ungodly churches reflect in glasses*
It is reserved for the autist but the /pol/tard "proving" his /pol/tard theory with "muh feels" is as pseudo- bullshitty as it gets and he definitely deserves to be called Hans for that alone.
Brandon James
That frog desperately needs some Iodine.
Jordan Walker
>no but I will call you shitskin, woman or gay because clearly you are one of those Oh you little incel /pol/tards, you really all do speak the same
Adrian Torres
My cute friend likes it so is a masterpiece for me Also the jungle rhythms makes me feel my origins
Charles Rogers
Beethoven was a libtard, Pfitzner was a faggot, therefore libtards are better.
Mason Clark
>I think Chopin's orchestration in his first piano concerto is excellent. I could see thinking Chopin's orchestration is serviceable, but why excellent?
Anthony Wilson
Paragraphautist can't even read Music m8 How the fuck is he going to know about orchestration
This is pretty good, doesn't sound very serial to be honest.
>tfw my gf said Boulez and Messiaen are "not bad" and "pretty cool guys" She dislikes Schoenberg and Stockhausen though. I guess she hates the G*rm*ns.
tbf orchestration is a lot easier to hear than tonality. Its easy to tell if sections are being under-utilized or if a texture is poor. And its not really something you can get more information on by looking at the score. I suppose good orchestration involves understanding the ranges of the instruments and their capabilities but I doubt that anyone knows about these technical aspects unless they are a composer themselves.
Luis King
Now this is music! Always love when 12 tone serialism is used to romantic effect.
Hudson Cox
Greetings, gentlemen. Have you listened to any of my ecstatic poemes this fine afternoon?
Schoenberg is Austrian, baka. Don't know about Stockhausen, don't care, don't have the real-estate in my brain for that fag.
Cameron Lee
Very good, Sir. I have always been loyal to the classical era periodic structures and have religiously used them in all my works, even the ones without tonal centres. You have my respect.
Imao since i became a pseud i can recognize other pseuds I give a beautiful work with folk influences And "'"'" no this is crap""" But then a serial work """"" now THIS is Music""""'"
>This is pretty good, doesn't sound very serial to be honest. Thats the trick m8 dont make sound like shit and even girls will like it
Oliver Stewart
I'm the one who found him. Stop taking credit for my hard work! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
If you post Stockhausen or Babbit, I wont say the same thing. Obviously folk music is going to be prettier but less sophisticated than dodecaphonic classical.
Joshua Bennett
I tried for a while to love Medtner. It didn't work, but I probably do like his music more than Schumann and some other big names.
I fucking hate opera Wagner sucks Verdi sucks Rossini sucks Puccini sucks Strauss is ok
Cameron Collins
BASED but with the Caveat that it must be R.Strauss.
Nicholas Diaz
Can we create a Bach cult to save this board by posting his music everywhere?
Jacob Butler
No, I'd say if the goal is to convert people to classical then we should be selling the sheer variety within the umbrella of classical music. There's something for everyone. Well except maybe the """"""((((people))))"""""" who listen to these... things.
It's not even his best piano concerto, that goes to the fourth. It's awkwardly constructed for a Beethoven work youtube.com/watch?v=JO4UmbcBprw&t=5m20s is painful every time I hear it.
I have a sad story to tell: I listened to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And I enjoyed it.
Brayden Long
Lovely story but entirely irrelevant
Colton Richardson
Listened Mahler's eight last night in a concert, what a tremendous experience!
Julian Reed
Can anyone recommend a generic Classical era symphony that features most if not all the cliches of the time? I mean that there's that loud Ba Budadadada thing, that it modulates to the relative minor, tutti etc... I'm going to chop and screw it. Basically I just want a piece that isn't really good but does a lot of different things.
>muh marxism is not an argument. Remarkably, neither is muh Dunning-Kruger.
Nicholas Butler
I think that Mozart is the Justin Bieber of classical music
Jackson Jenkins
Nah, it actually is because you fit on Mount Stupid rather nicely, Hans. Now fuck off already.
Wyatt Bennett
I hear numerous beauties that are perfectly adapted to the form, (which I would not say about Brahm's First Concerto), and beauties never or rarely found in previous music. If one want "serviceable" orchestration, one merely need to hear the orchestration in numerous of Chopin's contemporaries, or even in his Second Concerto.
Name-calling does not an argument make, no matter how fit you believe the epithets are.
Ethan Bell
Hans, shut up, you fucking pseud.
Tyler Rivera
Shut the fuck up, Hans
Levi Walker
Do you really believe that? From the very beginning, it sounds like a generic French opera. I won't even to begin to ask when it's supposed to get good, because if you think the beginning is great, you either hear something I do not, or we have very different standards of greatness.
Wyatt Hernandez
We've analysed your bullshit and came to the correct conclusion which is seen here Now shut the fuck up, Hans.
Xavier Thompson
>came to the correct conclusion Rather begging the question, is it not?
>smokey bar really says everything about jazz, but no "there is no such thing as degenerate music" >nothing wrong with it yes there is something wrong with it
Ethan Edwards
Refer back to my original post, /pol/tard
Brody Gutierrez
I hate opera too. The ouverture for The Italian Woman In Algiers is great though.
Mason Jenkins
Rossini ouvertures are so good, I wish he wrote more instrumental music
David Campbell
The thing that pisses me off about these kind of lectures is they only cover the first movement.
Blake Wood
>Compose most of Carmen >Bizet gets all the credit
Has anyone ever been more musically cucked than this?
