Explain this Bernie Bros. right the fuck now

>minimum wage
>except for interns
I vote we extend that that exception to Congress. All senators and reps can get by on $12/hour.

sauce OP?
this meme is not qualify as sauce.

did you know trump employs hundreds of illegal immigrants at his properties?
thehill.com/hilltv/rising/423507-attorney-for-trump-golf-club-employees-says-club-mistreated-illegal-immigrant

you are nobodies judge. You only define 'your' reality. You do not get to define the narrative even though yours would be infinitesimally small minded.

Because it's straight up untrue, Vladimir.

Or Ping, I guess. Wumao.

>Complete ignorance combined with an inability to Google
www.newsweek.com/sanders-campaign-battles-staff-demanding-15-hourly-pay-which-candidate-says-should-federal-1450103
thepoliticalinsider.com/bernie-sanders-to-cut-staff-hours-due-to-15-minimum-wage/
www.vox.com/2019/7/20/20700841/bernie-sanders-minimum-wage-staff-pay

Hell, even hyperliberal Snopes agrees
www.snopes.com/fact-check/sanders-interns-minimum-wage/

>sauce OP?
>this meme is not qualify as sauce.
>Because it's straight up untrue, Vladimir.

Now, now, I'm on you side, but go read the Snopes article.
Bernie does NOT pay regular staff members less then $15.
BUT interns are paid less. But remember, in many (most?) situations interns aren't paid at all.
It's apples and oranges.
But even if it weren't, would that be so bad?
Bernie's proposals don't offer any exception offer his personal case.
If I run a McDonald's, and am in favor of a $15 minimum wage for ALL fast food employers, how would I be obligated to unilaterally offer an advantage to my competitors?
Feel the Bern.

oooh. that's hypocritical of him. i guess he'll have to give them a raise once he passes the minimum wage law. until then he's not compelled to by law.

i'll probably be a lot easier to pay higher wages once employers arent required to provide healthcare to their workers.

good job for actually citing your sources user. it's not our responsibility to look up your claims, you're the one making them.

>Snopes agrees
That's misleading.
See :If you have to go this far out of your way to mislead people, maybe you're desperate to support an indefensible position.
Or maybe you're just shitposting.

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the burden of proof is on the accuser. It is not up to me to research and make points to your argument.

If you seriously think you can walk up to someone and say "you touched me, I demand money for sexual abuse." You need to prove that shit, or shut the fuck up.

none of this will matter-replay 016..

straight up, interns take wage cuts the same as trainees do, its part n parcel of getting qualified

It's not in the slightest bit misleading. OP's meme says "PAYS HIS INTERNS $12/HR". That's the part that Snopes EXPLICITLY is true.

The Snopes article on the other hand is a tour de force of evasion and bias. In order to label the overall claim as "mixed", they had to point to memes that said "staff" instead of "interns", and then pretend that interns aren't staff. Which is a heaping pile of bullshit, interns are certainly a type of staff.

>I only do things because politicians wrote laws telling me to.
What a wretched existence you live.

It's valid

>EXPLICITLY says...

not that dude,

but could you clarify ? hows mcdonalds getting / giving this advantage ??

i always assumed it would just lead to the most efficient proccess always rising to the top ,because its cheaper and better.

That's a good argument in favor of not imposing a $15/hour minimum wage.

It's a shit argument in defense of Bernie's hypocrisy.

except he never said that lol

yeah, no, you're wrong.

he's just as out of touch with the working class as donald trump is,dont know why op is so mad.you wont be gettig paid 15 bucks an hour sitting in your mother's basement anyway

>It's not in the slightest bit misleading.
>they had to point to memes that said "staff" instead of "interns"
Be real, white nigger.
Without conflating staff and interns, the meme has no significance.
Unless you're trying to tell people that he's _overpaying_ his interns, the meme is purposefully misleading, just like you.

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Says everyone should be on medicare.
Votes against congress having to use the same healthcare as us peons.

>The Snopes article on the other hand is a tour de force of evasion and bias.

That's snopes for you

>but could you clarify ? hows mcdonalds getting / giving this advantage ??
If I want all fast food employers (including myself) to pay a higher wage, that means I want ALL fast food employers to do that, so I'm not a hypocrite if I don't do it myself.
>i always assumed it would just lead to the most efficient proccess always rising to the top ,because its cheaper and better.
No idea what you mean here, I'm suspecting you're a sea lion.
Jokes on you, I'll be afk so long this thread will be gone before I'm back.

>That's snopes for you
>reality has a liberal bias

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Read the meme OP posted, retard.

It literally says "interns".

internships are for people with zero experience, which is why interns are often kids just out of school; it usually pays zero dollars, 12 bucks an hour is decent for a kid who still lives at home

Snopes doesn't define reality, they just define the fantasies of gullible idiots.

THESE ARE FUCKING SHILL POSTS YOU RETARDS

SAGE

This here's some Poe's law shit.

YES-
but evidently it is what both sides want.

You're literally arguing that imposing moral values you refuse to live by on other people is somehow moral.

Which is a good argument for abolishing the minimum wage.

Snopes isn't spelled r-e-a-l-i-t-y

It's interesting just to look at what Snopes doesn't have articles on, like the widely debunked Covington Maga hat kids incident

Why not?

>PAYS his interns

Nothing to see here except manufacturered republicunt rage.

>everything not radical rightist is fake news guise

Minimum wage laws drives the price of goods higher as most companies will not absorb that kind of impact. It also lowers the opportunity for people to start their own businesses. It may not kill "small businesses, which make up over 90% of the businesses in the country, but it will hurt them. What this does is kill competition to big box stores and online giant online retailers, allowing them a stronger control of the markets they're in. This too will drive up prices. Less competition always means higher prices. They aren't going to be benevolent just because.
When you hear the likes of walmart and amazon pushing for a $15 minimum wage, it's not because they believe this good for the workers, but because they understand ultimately it helps their bottom line when their competition dies out. If you want to ride the Bernie train and think these corporate capitalists need to pay their fair share, you should seriously rethink why they love these higher minimum wage models.

Holy strawman, retard

not that guy but you have a 5 year old's reading comprehension. ALL fast food employers, A L L. not just him, not just them, A L L. if i want A L L employers to pay 15$ an hour, but i don't want to do it unless everyone else is, i am not imposing anything on anyone i'm just not going to figuratively set myself on fire to try and light the way for everyone else. dumb fuck

I wish people would better recognize that many entities have a narrative and agenda to push. I wish they would learn to see the weasel words that are used to drive your emotions.
You can't even trust local news stations - I don't know if they're just as bad, but they're bad.
I was watching the local news and they were showing a video is a guy crazily driving around a stolen ambulance before the cops finally manage to corral him. The newscasters are claiming that they were able to pull the guy from the vehicle without any struggle. In the background the video shows the guy is resisting every step of the way, just poorly. If they lie about stupid shit, what else are they going to lie about?

That was a hell of a leap you made there.

I guess the entire workforce will be reclassified as interns then.

Well that's exactly why no one would listen to you.
You can't even follow it yourself without imposing it on everyone.

Do corporations pay their interns?

>darer's go first
you live with the mindset of a child on the playground. as adults we understand that sometimes collective action is what is needed. let's say if you and me together shoot ourselves in the head, cancer is cured. but if i do it first and you decide not to you'll get a sweet 5$ payout, think how many candy bars that could buy! should i shoot myself in the head first and just trust that you will follow suit? or would i prefer us to do it together? use your critical thinking skills this time please

Depends on whether it's a paid interneship or not.
They often do.

Yes

You should shoot yourself in the head

not really, minimum wage is for actal jobs
interns usually dont do shit, they just watch and follow around people on a job
or if they're supposed to do actual work, they are often only interns for a few weeks then get hired or go somewhere else; but that's mostly just for manual labor type jobs

He's a Social Democrat you dill-weed.

minimum wage protects the most vulernabe.

those on internships are not vulernabe and could easily find a minimum wage job, or better.

Interns are not usually paid and his gets $12 per hour you idiots. ha ha ha....
BERNIE is the best candidate to oust the orange dildo.

see

thanks for admitting defeat. no more (You)'s for the reddit spacing retard

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Unless there is collusion amongst companies, competition will keep prices low.

I sure hope you're trolling.

This is a great fucking argument.

"I can't be the change I want to see in the world because everyone needs to be equally forced to sacrifice."

A social democrat? Like on facebook and shit? He's a Socialist, which will quickly turn to Communist..

he pays his interns even less than what he claims is a poverty wage so is he okay with his interns starving or his claim about starvation wages just bullshit?

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>vulernabe
?

Is this how you cope with your insecurities?

1. what does that have to do with my posts?
2. do you actually think something like that will happen?

Isn’t that just communism lite?
Everybody knows communism is a shit idea. Bernie is just towing behind the line of communism with what he says because he knows if he goes any further it won’t get him elected because it’ll be to obvious. But if that man gets the vote he will go full blown commie user.

if equally forced sacrifice is the only way to affect change, why should i sacrifice when i know you won't? just forget the minimum wage argument, i couldnt care less. tell me why i should make a meaningless sacrifice for an ideal i believe in? would you make a meaningless sacrifice, give up something with a GUARANTEE of zero return? think about it a little harder for a second, because this is literally the alternative to collective action. is it ideal that some people would be 'forced' to change? no. is it better than the alternative? that's up for debate, but i don't think you're capable of taking that debate

1. "Intern" is just a word. You can call anything an intern if it saves you money.
2. Like what will happen? Label workers as intern? Obamacare forced millions to not have full-time employment because of the 30-hour law. How hard would it be to change a title in a computer from App Engineer III to Intern III?

Why shouldn't interns get a "livable wage"??? We say McDonald's workers, who are usually people just getting into the workforce, deserve a livable wage, why not interns?

The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

because a mcdonald's worker provides the value of a mcdonalds worker to mcdonalds. a blank company intern does not provide the value of a blank company worker to blank company. a mcdonalds intern should be payed less than a mcdonalds worker, because they arent providing full value

but answer this

Are any McD employees providing value to the company, or is it the other way around and McDick's is providing a massive charity? They've already said they can easily and cheaply automate.

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Yes

I mean, most corporations don't even pay interns. I have a masters degree in mental health and none of my internships were paid.

he is OK with his interns starving. bernie is capable of higher level thought than your average taiwanese mink farming forum posters, he understands that his goal isn't to give 200 interns on his campaign a livable wage, his goal is to give the whole country a livable wage. if paying 200 people a livable wage hinders his opportunity to secure a livable wage for the whole country. it may or may not be in the end, it's not cut and dry either way, but clearly his campaign has decided it would, otherwise they wouldnt've made that choice. should i practice what i preach on a small scale if i know it will hinder my end goal of practicing what i preach on the largest possible scale? this is a classic odyssean dilemma that has been thought about and solved for literal thousands of years

mcdicks is not charitable. i guarantee they have a team of people smarter than you and me combined doing the market analysis, and they decided they would lose more business from the backlash a move to automation would cause than they could justify with the money they would be saving.

If it doesn't work on a small scale, how in the fuck does it have a chance to even pretend to work on a large scale?

you sound no different than scrooge mcduck.

When you see fast food CEOs being interviewed about this, they literally say the opposite. They say they could automate tomorrow but they'd rather help people and introduce them into the workforce.

smoothbrain you are getting lost in the weeds. it doesn't work unless EVERYONE is on board. the fact that it is small scale not large scale is literally the reason it does not work on a small scale. i'm trying hard to help you understand

not an argument just a "muh feelings" platitude. you can't address the content of what i've said because i am arguing from an objective unassailable point of view

>it doesn't work unless EVERYONE is on board
What else behaves like this? It's usually the other way around.

i'm sure (((they))) say exactly what their market analysts have told them will garner the biggest bucks. why would you trust (((them))) to be honest when the penalty for lying is zero, and the potential for reward is so high?

so he can't afford to pay a handful of people 2 bucks more an hour but he has 5 houses and millions of dollars from selling books after running for president last time?

is he just greedy then? he could easily pay them $15/hr with all the money he makes, it feels like he just doesn't really care and just wants votes

Pays his interns...most interns don't even get paid ya know? Fick Bernie anyways but op is a dumb fuck.

>an objective unassailable point of view
>if
>may or may not
>opportunity
>my goal
Zero facts, not objective, just you muttering on about your assumptions and your feelings.

maybe i should just tell you to fuck off to r/explainlikei'mfive but i'll spoonfeed you this time. think of pet owners of species that are invasive, let's say my state has a huge python problem. should i give up my python if no one else will? will my giving up a python help anyone else decide to? not a perfect analogy but you can see how only once everyone decides collectively to give up their python will we be able to address the damage the invasive species is causing.

>1. "Intern" is just a word. You can call anything an intern if it saves you money.
yes, but no one with experience will take an internship
and someone with zero experience doesn't deserve money because like i said earlier they often just follow an actual worker around and just watch
also, there IS a things as paid internship, and like i said earlier; most non-paid internships are short and are more like a test period to see if you would fit in the company

why are you intentionally being misleading? they make the same amount of money for less hours now.

>should i give up my money if no one else will?
>will my giving up money help anyone else decide to?

Perfect analogy. So there's no benefit, just loss of everyone's python (money).

so bernie supports temporary layoffs of his employees too?

sheeeeeeiiiiiii

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>no one with experience will take an internship
They will when every open position is Intern.

If that's the case, why have wages been stagnate but the price of goods worldwide has gone up?

you are getting lost in the weeds. i am claiming that his campaign has decided that those 2 dollars are better spent elsewhere in pursuit of the end goal, giving EVERYONE those 2 dollars. giving those people 2 bucks that could be better spent elsewhere, and it could be better spent elsewhere this isn't for you and me to decide people smarter than you and me have thought long and hard about this decision, would hinder his campaign and his end goals. it isn't about the money bernie has, should he give it all up in pursuit of his lofty end goal? that's an argument you could make but it is independent of him paying 2 dollars less an hour to some interns

>r/explainlikei'mfive
>still struggling
kek

>They will when every open position is Intern.
which wont happen
experienced workers are an investment, company owner might be greedy but they aren't retarded

State min wages have been anything but stagnate.

>you use words that aren't objective so your argument can't be objective
i already know you have nothing to say otherwise you wouldnt be literally picking words out of sentences instead of picking sentences.

>company owner might be greedy but they aren't retarded

Source?

You just compared paying employees the $15/hr minimum wage to lighting yourself on fire.

And you support the minimum wage.
kek

If someone is worth $50/hour (or anything over 15) then this isn't really about them is it? Why wouldn't every entry-level position now be labelled "intern"?

>and it could be better spent elsewhere this isn't for you and me to decide people smarter than you and me have thought long and hard about this decision

it's just 2 bucks, bernie has millions and 5 luxurious homes

> it isn't about the money bernie has, should he give it all up in pursuit of his lofty end goal?

so you're saying the guy who is demanding rich people should give up more of the wealth should himself not give up more of his wealth to the people who are working directly for him?

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>has unpaid volunteer
>pays anyway

Oh noes.

>another non-objective argument.

Using your astonishing lack of personal conviction and principles as an excuse to force your ideals on others is a rather daring rhetorical tactic.

the benefit is not to the pet owners (the business owners) the benefit is to my state's ecosystem (the labor market). the pet owners (businesses) lose their pythons (money) so that the ecosystem (the labor market) is in a better place as a whole. does that spell it out a little more clearly for you? now the argument you could make, that i would not try to debate, is that maybe the labor market would not in fact be in a better place with a change like this. bernie thinks it would be, some other people think it wouldn't, both parties are smarter than you or i

>has unpaid volunteer
need source

it is a struggle trying to get through to smoothbrains like you, yes

Minimum wage disproportionately puts minorities and the young out of work.

I applied for several in DC and they range between $15-20/hr you fucking tard. If anything it's probably for campaign volunteers

Surely you mean federal

it is a common analogy / idiom. you look like a retard, like an actual 60IQ retard not just the word people use to be mean, when your argument is "let me take this literally, LOL isn't it absurd now?"

Different user, but the federal minimum wage hasn't changed since 2009, which is a relatively long time. A number of states have raised their minimum wages significantly, since.

There's an internship and unpaid internship, I had to do mine UNPAID during highschool as a form of education in the field. In countries as switzerland you actually get pain for the high school internship.
Interns are usually even in USA unpaid, 12 bucks is great for someone still living with their parents or a college student to get educated and earn some cash.

You literally compared a thing you supposedly support to lighting yourself on fire

paid*

>the benefit is not to the money owners (the people)
>the benefit is to my state's ecosystem (the government)
>the money owners (people) lose their money

You're really bad at this. You can't even keep your equivalencies straight. You also act like businesses are some kind of alien object. Businesses are people, the same people losing their pythons (money). How does forcibly taking anything at gunpoint from anybody create a benefit?

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Doesn't that hold true for most entry level jobs, which tend to be minimum wage? Why should I pay the teen serving me fries $15/hr if a 20-something interning in the federal government makes less?

Coming from a STEM field, unpaid internships are heresy.

In the tech field, all interns are paid. Usually well above the minimum wage, as well.

You should try making a rational point for a change.

i can't make an objective argument when my debate partner won't give me anything objective to respond to. no more (You)'s for (You) pal

>minimum wage protects the most vulernabe
To ensure they qualify for federal subsidies like subsidized housing and food.

Privatize gains, socialize losses

No. Most states bump their min wages often and much higher than Fed.

Depends where man, my country doesn't do that, it should but I realize we're not a leading example in terms of generating money.

It's a Bernie thread, your country doesn't matter unless it's the US, Cuba, or Venezuela.

That's fucking outstanding. Now tell me how you know that Bernie's staff are volunteers.

what the hell are you talking about? are right wingers really this stupid or are you all just pretending to be retarded? if you make x amount of money in a week working forty hours, and now you make that same amount working thirty, that's ten extra hours you have off now. are you really that fucking dumb that you can't understand working less for the same amount of money is better?

Work at engineering/mfg joint in the US. We pay interns.

Oops, yeah, you're right

A lot of those aspects are for state workers though and does nothing for people working at Wal-Mart for example, only raises the national average, not the actual pay for those not employed by the state

Never said it did now did I. Intership doesn't need to be even paid, period. You're learning the job and getting shit to put on your fucking resume. If you're telling me that a person watching how the job is done, especially in office internships making coffee, printing and being taught deserves a 15$ and hour, something you'd pay an actual employee you're deluded.

It's easy..
He's a Jew Communist

refusing to set yourself on fire to light the way for others is not an "astonishing lack of personal conviction", and if you don't see this then there's no point in me trying to convince you. the part you don't like is the "force your ideals" part, so you refuse to look past the very surface of the argument. maybe a 15$ minimum wage should or should not be forced on american businesses that isn't for you and me to decide, but to say bernie should do it just because he thinks we all should is a smoothbrain take

You were told "answer this" ages ago and you're still fucking around with your opinions and calling people smoothbrains you fucking weed.

>you're deluded.
or a Bernie supporter

Holy fuck...
The state wage supersedes the fed wage, unless the fed wage is higher. And it's not state employees, it's if you live in that fucking state. If you work at WalMart in California, you get paid the CA min wage. Try getting a job dude.

>Why wouldn't every entry-level position now be labelled "intern"?
because those positions often means actually doing work, internships dont
and again, paid internships do exist, but they usually mean doing something more than just following some dude around and watching
you get money because you are actually doing something, not just simply learning by what others are doing; do you think you deserve to get paid when you go to school?

Nuff said.

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Ohgoddammit
Did you forget what the conversation was?

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Just think about your analogy for a second. You're saying that paying the minimum wage to workers is like setting yourself on fire, which you refuse to do, but you're advocating for a law that forces everyone to set themselves on fire. The analogy is idiotic, and you deserve all the ribbing you've gotten.

And I expect people to live up to the moral standards they profess. Saying one thing and doing another on the minimum makes Bernie an immoral hypocrite. The same applies to your defense of Bernie's behavior, while supporting the same thing. It's a serious lack of self-awareness.

When that large group of black Hebrew Israelites started being extremely racist?
Yeah, curious why they didnt make an article about that.
(No this isnt a conspiracy, heres the wiki, it happened.)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memorial_confrontation

Sure, let's pay students minimum wage then, for studying.
How about that?
Certain compensation for work done is needed, but interns aren't doing the heavy lifting. They're learning and suporting the candidate. And most of them are studying on their off time for college or highschool as well.

did you?

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Volunteering for a campaign should not be your main job.

holy shit i the dunning-kruger is unbelievable. you think about this on a hurr-durr level of people vs government because in your tiny little brain that is all this argument has been about, "if we let them impose a 15$ minimum wage then BIG GUBMENT WINS AGAIN". the business owner, like the python owner, is a selfish actor. the business owner wants money like the python owners want python. the ecosystem, which is not THE GUBMENT it is the market, will improve with this change. this analogy holds up if you have the brainpower to understand it, the sticking point for you is clearly that you don't think a 15$ minimum wage will help the market, and while i disagree with you, that isn't the point i'm debating.

>how to know someone ran out of arguments

do you know what an idiom / analogy is? or even a simile / metaphor? are you esl? are you a shitposter? all of the above?

Still doesn't help with rising costs though

Well, since Socialism is about starvation and $15 is a 'starvation wage' that means he's being honest that he hopes they die, like the 100,000,000 plus others that have been killed by Socialism. You go Bernie, keep that shit real!

I asked why, after bernie declares interns to not be held to min wage laws, companies wouldn't just change all title positions to "Intern"?

Then you get all retard-strong with the 16th post about paid and unpaid internships as they exist now. What the fuck is wrong with you?

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Hmm, you're right. Bernie's staff certainly WAS all volunteers. Thanks user.

$15/hr 40 hours
$15/hr 30 hours

tell me how this is being paid the same again? and why doesn't he pay them $20/hr instead since he claims $15/hr is starvation wages?

at the rate your camp is making sense it looks like bloomberg is a shoe-in

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not him but you're moving the goalpost and it's obvious.

maybe bernie should give up his money too, that isn't the interesting half of this argument and you aren't getting one over on anyone by pointing it out

you just look foolish grasping at straws doing whatever mental gymnastics you need to in order to convince yourself it's OK to dislike bernie, and even that you are smart and right for doing so

I dunno maybe because you're a retard and you can already do that yet nobody does it?

i literally explained why your question was fucking retarded and would not and will never work or even happen

Nope not all of them, some are employees instead of interns.
No prob bro.

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I do know what those words mean, you clearly don't. And while I sometimes shitpost, I'm not the idiot who said yay minimum wage and hey paying a minimum wage is like setting myself on fire in the same post.

Analogies can always be stretched to the point where they break, but this analogy was broken from the start.

Minimum wage jobs should not be your main job. They are entry level jobs.

you should try making a point at all, instead of just sticking your head in the sand and turning your brain off when you hear an argument you don't like

Did I say they did? I was trying to inform your 11-year old ass on how state wages work.

How did this thread decent into such a dense state of retardedtry?

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Ahem...

i IMMEDIATELY answered. my answer was "bernie is OK with his interns starving". go back and read my post again, 3/10 apply yourself see me after class

By those standards and explanation I guess those fast food niggers can keep their wages low too then.

Hey junior, WHY... WOULDN'T... COMPANIES... CALL... ALL... ENTRY-LEVEL... JOBS... INTERNS?

Different user, but the point he was making was the net take home pay remained the same. So if they were being paid $12/hour for a 40 hour week, then when they were bumped to $15/hour, they were reduced to a 32 hour week ($480/week either way).

I have only asked questions. You have answered none. I don't think there's been an answer in this whole thread. GG Berniebro.

i'm simply using bernie's own logic, bernie can afford to pay his people more so why doesn't he? and why does bernie think it's okay to pay his own workers what he considers to be poverty wages when he can afford to pay more? and why does bernie advocate for the rich to pay more in taxes but bernie doesn't pay his own campaign workers more?

these are simple fucking questions that are bereft of any political leaning based off what bernie himself has said

also could you explain where the goalposts were before I moved them and how i moved them? just asking since I disagree with that assertion

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Last time I checked minimum wage is the minimum wage.
Are intern getting paid a wage? Yes
Does it meet Bernie’s own criteria for a MINIMUM WAGE? No
Therefore he is a hypocrite to the highest degree and his actions are indefensible. Being an intern has nothing to do with it. We are talking about a minimum fucking wage here and the interns are getting paid a wage below the minimum fucking wage. Period. End of fucking discussion. You lose.

shut the fuck up retard

????
He is paying his interns 15-20 an hour

boards.greenhouse.io/bernie2020/jobs/4534476002

boards.greenhouse.io/bernie2020/jobs/4263816002

i am saying that paying minimum wage workers 15$ an hour is a sacrifice on the part of any business, they are giving up money that could have gone into the CEOs pocket and instead it goes to some shithead min wagie. if only one business did it, then the benefit to the employee is small compared to the cost of the business, just like how if you set yourself on fire to light the way for others the cost to you is higher than the benefit to them. but now imagine we all set a single hair off our head on fire, producing the same amount of light. is the analogy perfect? no, but it is sound and it is one that has been used for literally thousands of years

your time is worth money user

Lmao, these are all arguments against minimum wage.

because entry level jobs means you will actually do some fucking work, plus mentoring in preparation for actual work; which is an investment that will pay off when you are fully competent at the job and thus you will get payed because you wont just walk around all day like a doofus
interns literally just follow someone around, why would that entitle you do a paycheck?
yes, but people dont want to just toss money at any random retard who doesn't do shit to deserve the money, right?

>He still thinks "my taxes going to things that benefit my life" == "free shit"
I shiggity diggity

most "workers" aren't worth min wage, i would take your torch analogy and a retarded wagie and use them as fuel for the oven for the automated burger flipper to do the simple fucking task of not fucking up a hamburger

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please explain
minimum wage work means you actually do work, it's just work that literally anyone can do without any education or training what so ever

what are you gonna do, send me to the gulag

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and i am saying that even if bernie sold off every asset he had, down to his old wrinkly asshole, he would be better off spending that money on his campaign than on giving some random 200 interns another 2$ an hour. maybe the good publicity from him practicing what he preaches would outweigh that cost to his campaign, but maybe not, and smarter people than you and i have decided that it would not. for you to try to make the argument not about wether wagies deserve 15$ and wether or not people who believe they do deserve 15$ should practice what they preach at huge cost to themselves and marginal benefit to a few, but about "bernie is rich he should give it all up or he's a hypocrite!" is moving the goalposts in the most smoothbrain way possible

This is a fake news shill thread, with no actual evidence that the campaign pays less than $15 an hour.

Every single posting on his website pays $15 an hour or more. His campaign staff are also unionized.

boards.greenhouse.io/bernie2020

Nah I'd take carrying a briefcase following someone around, printing, making coffee while you're ''learning'' as an intern. Over actual frustration of dealing with fuckheads like yourself as customers. Please do not puke on the floor again.

that's a fair argument but it doesn't invalidate the one i'm making, it just moves the goalpost. i agree with you a mcdicks wagie isn't worth 15$ an hour, but that isn't the point i was making. thanks for admitting defeat, we can both be right now, i'm sure you feel very good about that.

Is this why often the people bitching about climate change are polluting and contributing carbon to the environment just as much as the deniers?

It's a fucking idiotic analogy, and people haven't been been comparing the minimum wage to setting themselves on fire for thousands of years, either.

It's hilarious they don't even realize that

When left wingers defend against their own hypocritical ideology with right wing arguments and don’t even fucking realize it.

This is gold

>Volenteer cuck work that is universally known to be low paying if that at all
>needing to having it spelled out for you

You need to go to college or finish high school at least.

it's why ____ problem exists in the world yes. as individuals we are incapable of affecting change and thus unwilling to make the sacrifice necessary of all of us. good job you discovered the bystander effect you very smart young man

*curb your enthusiasm plays*

FUCK YOUR FEELINGS HOW'S THAT?
LMAO

Thats because his ass got caught doing it and he had to change.

Just because arguments are valid in one scenario and not the other does not make the arguments invalid.
People in this thread have not worked a minimum wage job in their life, let alone physical work, that you're literally comparing it to a glorfied classroom an internship is.

i work with people in the real world, and they are just about as stupid as any mcdonalds "worker" anywhere you go, luckily i don't have to deal with them directly anymore, i have subordinates for interacting with the "workers" and we also have interns but they aren't paid and I typically leave negative feedback to their career counselors not because of their lack of experience, but because of their sheer stupidity, is it any wonder when we let people graduate who are illiterate?

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people have been comparing the difference between a personal sacrifice and a collective sacrifice with this fire analogy for literal thousands of years yes. if you think it's idiotic that's fine, i think you're idiotic.

Let me tell all y'all zoomer bitches a great story. Back in the 1950s, Estes Kefauver and Richard Nixon held a series of hearings in Washington about the new communist socialist menace. The Reds were coming, they were hiding everywhere, and they were coming for your childrens.

The anons of the day got right in line, banging American drums and being overtly fearful of "socialism," not that any of them new what socialism or communism meant -- it was just un-American, and that was that.

Fast forward. Your grandmothers shat out your mothers, and your mothers shat out you. Now if you were of decent stock, you might have the brainpower to consider what you were told and weigh it against the actual facts of the day. But you still have the DNA of your defective grandparents. The ones that blindly Do What They Are Told, with that self-satisfied righteousness that equally causes the blue-skinned Aryans to play 1970s country music or goose-step to Deutschand Uber Alles.

It would be nice for you to turn off Fox News and think for your damned selves, but your DNA is that of a thousand generations of followers, of grunts, of people with sticks and dumb smiles. The people who do what they are told.

Bernie bad man! Tribe good! Do what told! Urk urk urk!

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''Stupid as any mcdonalds worker.''
Nigger I gave up working customer service because interacting with utter retards every day, drunks and general pieces of shit.
I'd rather be paid less than minimum wage to not deal with that shit and you jackasses think working in mcdonalds or the equivalent in my country is so fucking easy. I HOPE automation comes and people just have to press a button and people don't have to deal with scum.

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What a poor excuse
>No one else is doing anything so I won't either

>what else behaves like this
i provided a perfect facsimile
>it doesn't work small why would it work big?
i said the fact it is small is the reason it doesn't work
>is bernie OK with his interns starving?
yes, but i would argue he selects his interns with the criteria that they don't NEED those 3 dollars, and the one's that do can find a job not an internship.
anything else youre having trouble with sweaty? i'll be happy to do my best to answer any more questions you have, but at this point i understand that what you want is to convince yourself that it's OK to hate bernie, because you are a smart young man who has it more figured out than anyone else, ESPECIALLY COMMIES

the red scare was real and mccarthy was right, communists infiltrated all the way up to the state department according to the venona files/tapes

but please continue to condescend, it's working wonders for you

>i said the fact it is small is the reason it doesn't work
Why?
How does it not work?

That's what my comment chain was pointing to
Doesn't matter if they're getting paid min wage and get a boost to min wage if you cant pay for yourself, alone, on min wage.
Remember how people used to be able to buy new cars and houses on a single income? Sure they still can now, but the divide between those that can and those that cant, is widening undoubtedly.

>decent

Lmao you retards are all the same

Your blue-collar uneducated grandparents salute you from their well-padded coffins.

why are you even getting mad at me you dingus, I'm an automation engineer, i have a degree in mechatronics, electrical engineering and mechanical engineering

i'm going to be your technocratic overlord

look i know you think working in customer service and mcdonalds is really hard, I also think it's really hard for you too, so I'm going to help you by doing my part of relieving you of the burden of working

once the mcdonalds automated burger flipper reaches the mass production phase and is distributed accordingly, I will need diligent "workers" like you to keep the fires going for that flame broiled taste, yea i know burger king same thing really... but yea I won't forget you when the last wagie is booted from store, we will offer a special intern program for fueling the ovens however

Think about it another way

If no one jumped off a bridge, would you?
What if everyone jumped off a bridge?

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my guy, you are very stupid. i'll spell it out for you as clearly as i can. 15$ minimum wage may or may not be a benefit to society, i am arguing from the point of view that it would be, this is purely for the sake of argument and completely independent of my own point of view. from the businesses point of view, paying that minimum wage is setting yourself on fire, you are making a sacrifice. imagine your small business tanks because you payed your wagies 15$ and someone else didnt, so they drove you out of business. you just set yourself on fire to light the way for those wagies on your staff. once youre done immolating the wagies are back in the dark. now let's imagine instead of just you setting yourself on fire (making a sacrifice to pay 15$), we all set a single hair on fire. now you aren't burning to death, no one is. where the analogy isn't perfect is that in the analogy providing light in darkness is an objectively good thing for society, whereas 15$ an hour min wage may or may not be a good thing for society. i already know all you care about is believing that it would be a bad thing for society and all you so desperately want is to confirm that belief, but i'm nonetheless doing my best to educate you with a bit of critical thinking skills

ouch you attacked my ancestry

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>What a poor excuse
maybe or maybe not, but it is clearly part of the human condition as demonstrated through thousands of years of history. this is independent of wether or not you find it silly, we all get it you are a very smart young man who is far above such trivial shortcomings.

>imagine your small business tanks because you payed your wagies 15$ and someone else didnt, so they drove you out of business
How is that going to happen?

i literally already provided a very reasonable analogy about pythons but here's another. imagine your city has a stray cat problem. everyone has to spay and neuter their pets to solve the problem, just me or just you neutering poor fido won't do a thing, fido gave up his nuts for nothing. i'm just asking you to understand the similarities between this an minimum wage, i understand that it is a lot to ask of someone such as yourself

You have a real smarmy attitude, but yes, actions speak louder than words in a world full of hypocrites.

WHY DON'T YOU FUCK OFF BACK TO /POL

they can afford to sell their product cheaper and take your customers

i feel like this should be self explanatory but I also feel like burger flipping wagies come here

We are talking about minimum wage.
Can you answer the question in that context?

>its ok dude this is Socialism, you will get used to.

would me jumping off a bridge solve the problem of me wanting everyone to jump off the bridge? dumb fuck shitposter

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>bernie is a tech field

>how is that going to happen?
am i talking to a literal unironic bonafide honest to god grade-a 12 year old?

So we might deduce here that this means products are going to be more expensive with this plan?

Then I guess the people getting minimum wage will need the extra money just to afford the same things.

>Don't ask me basic questions about things I declare

>a blank company intern does not provide the value of a blank company worker to blank company
That is just stupid. If a person isn't providing value to a company (or a campaign), why have them there? They are providing some sort of value, hence they deserve a "living wage".

>can i just ignore a reasonable analogy and continue to be a mouthbreathing retard that only wants to confirm an opinion i already have?
lets say the argument is about having minimum wage at all, and not a 15$ one. imagine your city has a people starving to death problem that you want to fix by introducing minimum wage. no one else is willing to pay their workers more than 50 cents an hour, and people are willing to work for it because the alternative is nothing. soon you are out of business because you have been outcompeted by lower prices. everyone is still starving, now you included. if instead every business decided to pay minimum wage, every business had prices rise, and everyone had money to keep from starving. maybe prices would rise more than wages did, but the science of economics tells us this is far from likely. now this scenario is a bit more complex than my pet analogies, so i will forgive you if you don't understand it, that's why i gave the pet analogy in the first place.

dude i'm only answering how your competition can undercut your business since you pay your employees more than your competition, i don't know what your "deduction" is in relation to in some previous that I didn't bother reading

i just gave a simple answer to question that should have been self explanatory

So the means justify the ends? That's a bankrupt moral philosophy.

>no actual evidence
Except for the half a dozen links to reputable and even extremely leftist news organizations.

are you proud to be so stupid? the price of your chocolate bar is based on a number of factors timmy, one of which is the cost of labor. timmy's chocolate bar costs 5$ because timmy's mom makes 4$/hr plus 1$ of material, but jimmy's chocolate bar costs 2$ because he pays chink laborers 1$/hr plus 1$ of material. will more people buy timmy's chocolate bar or jimmy's chocolate bar? now imagine that they need to sell 50 chocolate bars a week or their dad's beat them mercilessly. timmy sells 2 chocolate bars, one to the libtards that care about worker's rights and one to the republitard who hates that jimmy outsources labor to goddamn chinks. jimmy sells his 50 bars easily and avoids a beating, timmy does not and is beaten to death. it would be more trouble than it's worth to make it any simpler to someone as dumb as you

he pays interns 20$ an hour per is website
do some research fags

Now explain charity.

Why didn't you say this to begin with?
Instead you had to act like a fucking small minded retard greentexting your prejudice.

I've worked minimum wage jobs, and I've hired interns who I paid more than three times the minimum wage at the time. Stop pretending nobody except you has any experience.

Provide one historical quote from a thousand years ago... hell, a 100 years ago... where someone compared paying the minimum wage to getting set on fire.

they provide some fraction of their full potential value, and so they earn some fraction of a living wage. the idea we have as a society is that these interns who arent earning a living wage are supported by other systems, their parents or welfare or whatever that may be. this isn't always obviously, the system is fucking busted and it goes a lot deeper than wage stagnation

Bernie hates blacks and women too. I would vote for him since he is even older and more retarded than Trump, but he shares the same core values of white pride

you live in the fantasy land of a self-assured teenager. the ends do justify the means, they always have, that's how the world works that's how anything of value is accomplished. you just happen not to like what the ends are this time around, and you might be right that's not the point i'm arguing

It's a phenomenally stupid analogy, and you deserve all the shit you've gotten for continuing to promote it.

And none of your simplistic generalizations or attempts at internet telepathy add anything of merit to the conversations. For instance, try to use them to explain Henry Ford's $5 (not 5$) work day. We'll wait.

What if you jumped off a bridge AND set yourself on fire?

>implying we should nuke the Chinese

why don't you explain to me how you perceive the existence of charity to completely nullify the notion of a bystander effect. yes obviously sometimes people come together for a common cause when we feel like it's worth it, the problem is that most people don't see wagies' lives as meaningful. would the average american rather donate to save kittens or save steve the highschool dropout working at mcdicks? but is steve more worth saving from nearly every objective measure? so should people be allowed to choose that steve deserves to die a slow death through indigence? or should we impose some sort of collective action to provide charity for these by some objective measures better deserving cases

the guy who couldnt understand a simple analogy or take any chain of reason to it's logical conclusion is going to call ANYONE else small minded?

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>let me take you literally so that i don't have to address the core of the argument
this is the most bad faith style of debate possible, and you are exposing yourself as a literal brainlet by trying to employ it. neck yourself you waste of space

>If a person isn't providing value to a company (or a campaign), why have them there
Congratulations, while trying to defend the minimum wage, you just described why it has exactly the opposite effect you're claiming.

If a worker's marginal productivity exceeds their wage, it makes no sense to hire them. So if you set the minimum wage above the value of a worker's marginal productivity, then they'll be let go, or won't be hired. And who's most affected? Vulnerable groups, like minorities, and the young. And when the young are unable to get work and build their basic job skills, their entry into the workforce is delayed, which permanently harms their lifetime income. That in turn is passed down to their children, who have less opportunities because their parents had less money.

A minimum wage hurts exactly the people it claims to help.

not the guy you're responding to but if steve dies of indigence in the US then he fucking deserved it

www.sanders.senate.gov/services/internships
>Interns are paid $15 per hour.

How are you all this retarded?

You assume these things
It's why I consider you small minded
All I did was get you to elaborate on the actual subject.

>you live in the fantasy land of a self-assured teenager. the ends do justify the means
It's sociopathic teenagers who claim the ends justify the means. Moral philosophers have almost universally rejected it.

Why you crying bro?

Name one person in the last 50 years who starved to death in the US because they couldn't afford food.

OP doesn't know what an intern is.
They usual don't get paid at all.

you're right i shouldnt have given any thai cactus forum poster the benefit of the doubt. what you call simplistic generalizations or attempts at internet telepathy are in fact reasonable conclusions that logically follow to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking capability.
henry ford's 5 dollar work day worked because his factories accounted for such a huge portion of the market that he didnt face lower prices from competitors. see how this simple logical next step somehow eluded you? just like how the next logical step is now that his worker's are being payed more, they can afford to buy his cars! so people went from not being able to afford a car, to being able to afford an even slightly more expensive car, WOW! henry ford's 5 dollar day is a great example of how a living wage can in fact be a huge boon to the economy, not the other way around

Chris Farley
R.I.P.

all my assumptions were reasonable, but fine post otherwise

No, calling people "brainlets" and telling them to "neck themselves" is displaying far more bad faith than someone demanding you back up a ridiculous claim with a historical example when you defended that ridiculous claim by making an appeal to history.

and yet the world runs on it, day in day out a constant stream of terrific ends justifying terrible means for thousands of years. ask yourself, would i give up everything that i have today (the ends) because to me the history of human suffering (the means) doesn't seem worth it? no you wont do that, because to even you the ends do in fact justify the means

>because those positions often means actually doing work, internships dont
Never been in an internship nor looked into one, is this how they actually are?
That because I’m not being paid I’m not actually an employee, and therefore I’m not obligated to do the work because I’m not a worker?

>no you wont do that, because to even you the ends do in fact justify the means
Not that poster, but I wouldn't be too sure

I'm not convinced the world would be a horrible mess any worse than it is right now if the course of history were much different and hadn't been filled with so much horrible shit.

me calling you names is not arguing in bad faith, it isn't arguing at all. an analogy can apply to many things, even novel things. my appeal to history was to try to help you understand that in fact the analogy is sound, as literal millions of people before us have understood. can i find a specific example where this analogy is used with direct respect to the minimum wage? is this a reasonable request? no it is an absolutely absurd request that does nothing but reveal the level on which you base your arguments, which is a very low level indeed. basically what you've said is "i dont believe you and i wont think about it because if i just take something you said literally instead then it becomes absurd!" reductio ad absurdum is literally on the same level as "i was almost forced to face the flaws in my argument but i see you've made a typo, tough luck kiddo"

interns usually do not get paid

absolutely fair and valid point, but all the same you wouldnt give it up just to prove that point, otherwise you wouldnt be posting from your internet machine

>what you call simplistic generalizations or attempts at internet telepathy are in fact reasonable conclusions that logically follow to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking capability.
No, they're just personal attacks. Why not employ that much vaunted internet telepathy to your own behavior?

And all that about Henry Ford not having any competitors is nonsense, it was the exact opposite. The problem Ford faced was there were so many employment opportunities in the Detroit are, that people would just walk off the job, because they knew they could get another job in an instant. So he borrowed an idea from abroad, and raised his wages far above the minimum. That allowed him to lock in a workforce, who were reliable and dedicated. And also allowed him to abuse the shit out of them, because they didn't want to leave.

That's what everyone is missing, going straight to commie socialism lol

That's completely illogical nonsense. I can't change history. Nothing I can do today will ever change any of it, in the slightest. More than that, I'm not responsible for those people's actions. All I can do is take responsibility for my own actions, and judge those who do things like commit genocide in the name of a greater good as monsters.

That is a pretty poor analogy. Though your point rings true. The issues with large wages compensating for out of control inflation is the damage it does to the small businesses.

the competition in the labor market was fierce yes, and so he provided the most money thus the most desirable job in the labor market. but his PRODUCT was CARS, which he did not have much competition with regards to in the market of goods, so his now slightly higher prices were not undercut by any competitors so he was not driven out of business. as far as a reliable dedicated workforce or how abused they were, that is irrelevant to my point. i'll try not to hurt your feelings anymore because i do in fact enjoy this back and forth we have, as much as it might seem otherwise

> Internets are dumb as fuck

Considering that giving it up won't actually change a thing, it won't free even one slave or stop Hitler, of course I won't stop using the internet just to prove some point (not even sure how that would prove my point about changing history) to some user on Yea Forums.

you cant change history and it is illogical to try, but to judge these 'monsters' who do amoral things, while simultaneously benefitting from their actions, is a bit amoral yourself. just a bit, and you aren't wrong, but you aren't entirely right either

You made an absurd analogy, and tried to defend by making made an appeal to history, but you still can't provide a single example for history. Your inability to defend your claim is noted.

This is a side note, but I often find companies are 100% ignorant of wages in a given area. When they say they are "competitive", they just mean in their industry. They may even break down industry further.
For example, a manufacturer may be say they have competitive wages, but compare it to other manufacturers and no one else, but then they may also take it a step further and say they're competitive with the same type of manufacturing.
They often do this because the work is different and requires different skillsets sometimes, but at the end of the day, when a wagie needs a job and is going entry level, they often don't care how hard the work is or how much work they have to do, they care about the actual pay. Corporate for the last company I worked for kept telling us we were competitive with pay. This was true at the very low end if you would compare us with the fast restaurants that paid line cooks $13/hr to start out. The warehouses around there started out higher, $15 or more.
Then corporate couldn't understand why I just couldn't hire more people (even use temps) so quickly. The fact is, despite the somewhat relaxed work environment and somewhat easy, but monotonous work, most people would rather make $15 an hour even if they had to work harder.
I worked in manufacturing.

you claiming my analogy is absurd doesnt make it so, and you asserting that i need to 'provide a single example for history' does nothing but bely the fact that beneath my 'absurd analogy' is an argument that you cannot, or will not address. i could not care less if your dumb ass thinks i owe it to you to explain or prove why the analogy is sound, you have no ground to stand on unless you can face me on the same intellectual level, which you obviously cannot or you wouldn't be debasing yourself like this

That makes no sense. It's completely immoral to t give genocidal maniacs a pass even if in some abstract sense we might have benefited from their actions. They're monsters, and need to be called out as monsters.

You're probably trying to argue something different from what you actually said -- that we bear some responsibility for those who might have been hurt by actions, while we might have benefited. And it's true, that if someone did something concrete that benefits us, and hurt someone else, it's our moral obligation to make that right.

But that's redressing specific wrongs, with direct benefactors and the injured, who can somehow be compensated. That's not the case with so-called historical injustices, because none of us were alive then, none of the people directly helped or hurt are alive today, and it's almost impossible to trace down culpability and benefits. All we can really do is look at outcomes, and say some people started better off today, and some started worse off. But addressing that's the realm of charity, not justice.

What underlying argument? I just pointed out your analogy was stupid, and you've doubled down on it to an entertaining level. If you really cared about that argument, you could have said "okay, let me try another analogy" or otherwise put the conversation back on track. But no, that's clearly not the case. You just don't want to be as wrong as comparing paying the minimum to setting yourself on fire.

have you been here for the whole thread? why don't you read the thread because i've made 3 different analogies and even straight up spelled it out in plain english. my point this entire thread has been that even though bernie believes 15$/hr is a minimum livable wage, he doesn't necessarily have to provide that minimum wage if no one else is. and i already know what you're thinking, that sounds silly, but why don't you read the thread if you want to understand the point i'm making. but i already know you won't because all you are is pic related

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are they equally amoral? no. are they both amoral? yes. i agree with everything you said tho

Just gonna drop this here

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And I'll point out it's still hypocrisy to say one thing and do another, and you haven't addressed that, because to be honest, there's really no way around it.

At least you dropped the dumb analogy, but you should also consider ditching the attempts at internet telepathy.

Biden doesn't have any money.

Post a source that he pays his interns $12/hr

>And I'll point out it's still hypocrisy to say one thing and do another,
Not him but:
a) Intern aren't subject to minimum wage laws, as they don't have to be paid at all.
Not hypocrisy

b) He wants all employers to pay $15 minimum. Until he gets that passed, why would he need to unilaterally comply?
Moot point (see a), above) but still not hypocrisy.

He needs a red baseball cap.

15 dollars an hour at 20 hours a week is still a starvation wage everyone focuses on the per hour rate but no one looks at number of hours worked per week

>internet telepathy
we get it, you heard this phrase somewhere and now you mindlessly parrot it because you thought it was clever and you want people to think you are clever. don't act like you've gotten one over on me because 'i dropped the analogy', just because i'm not a broken record like you doesn't mean i can't repeat myself just as well, it's just that i've given up on helping you understand. is it hypocritical to say one thing and do another, when in fact doing 'another' thing will in the end ensure that the thing you say will come to pass? i will do one thing now, to ensure i can do another more important thing later, even though the thing i am doing now is the opposite of the important thing later. am i a hypocrite? is that a specious argument to make? yes. i've already accepted that all of this has gone straight over your head, but i cant help myself

FUCK BERNIE SANDERS.
Fuck Bernie Sanders' brain dead white supporters.
Fuck socialism.
Fuck environmentalists.
Fuck communism.
Fuck niggers.
Fuck whites who race mix.
Fuck whites who don't want all nonwhites dead.
Fuck jews.
Fuck whites who convict whites for killing blacks.
Fuck rap.
Fuck jazz
Fuck the blues.
Fuck r&b.
Fuck hiphop.
Fuck wiggers.
Fuck ms13.
Fuck the triads.
Fuck los zetas.
Fuck the yakuza.
Fuck coal burners.
Fuck oil drillers.
Fuck the EU.
Fuck NATO.
Fuck all white traitors.
Fuck muslims.
Fuck zionists.
Fuck chinks.
Fuck weebs.
Fuck autists.
Fuck the LGBT community.
Fuck criminals.
Fuck women's rights.
Fuck AOC.
Fuck border hoppers.
Fuck diversity.
Fuck cuckolds.
Fuck multiculturalism.
Fuck vegans.
Fuck fedora tippers.
Fuck gun grabbers.
Fuck faggots.
Fuck trannies.
Fuck janitors.

I don't have to. Everyone knows that corona beer is a hoax.

corona beer is not a hoax its just shit

Not to mention he wants to tax everyone making $15/hour and above at what, fifty-something percent? That would put them immediately well below the poverty level and force them onto tax-payer doles just to subsist. And that's before the onset of inflation due to government-forced increased wages.

there's no way you really believe this...

again see
everyone looks so hard at hourly wage they will never see the hour reduction coming just have everyone work 4 hours a day 5 days a week and work can be just as much of a pain in the ass for about the same pay as before

So people shouldn't believe Bernie wants to do what he says? We shouldn't understand what has happened due to wage hikes and an increase in available funds poured into the economy? Both of these are demonstrable every time they have occurred.

Which part shouldn't be believed?

The part where you're pretending ;)

Bullshit. You keep on telling me what I think and who I am, instead of addressing my arguments. You're wrong on all counts, but that doesn't matter because it's not an argument, it's a deflection technique. I pointed it out, because it's a lot easier to have a discussion with someone who isn't constantly lying like that.

And you're just slipping back into the ends justify the means argument, which as I've pointed out repeatedly, is something almost universally condemned, and for good reason.

He's making a moral argument that the $15/hr minimum wage is needed for people to live. He's not paying that wage. It's not a legal requirement, no. But it's 100% hypocrisy.