Is it possible for someone to live on their own working on minimum wage renting a home by themselves? If so...

That is not explicitly due to minimum wage increases, it's largely to do with inflation.

Minimum wage is a STARTING wage. It was never intended to be a "living wage".
It is up to you to work to get a raise or go elsewhere that offers a better wage for workers with skills and work experience. These moronic attempts to make minimum wage a "living wage" assume once you start a job, that is the only job you'll ever have and that starting wage is all you'll ever get. Fucking idiot socialists.

Which happens everytime a wage hike is engaged.......

Cigerettes are like 16 bucks a pack in some major cities because of that and them putting taxes to encourage you to quit smoking. I mean it never works and people but them anyways but hey politicians need their platinum hot tubs

School and a full-time minimum wage job are not a great combination. It's possible, but realistically your time will be excruciatingly limited.
You could expect your life to be wake up, school, work, sleep, rinse, repeat.

in 1938 you could.

The idea was that is was supposed to be the minimum wage at which you could live a "normal" life.
-Not intended as "the least amount we can get away with paying"
IN the days of "Old Economy Steve", teenagers where the only ones doing those jobs, as adults had factory work that paid better.
Factory work gone, now adults do those MW jobs.
tl;dr you got yours,fuck the poor.

Because thats what most places want to pay.

I should have been clearer. Minimum wage increases are but one thing that drives inflation, as a subset of wage increases in general. There are several other factors as well.

you must not be familiar with right to work states

It was an example nitwit. Did they do that with milk and bread too?
>quit drinking milk it's bad for you
>dont eat bread it's bad for you
It's been done on every consumer product

Not possible in most of Southern California

But minimum wage increases are inflation. You're artificially raising the price on a service without actually increasing the value provided. The economy shifts to reflect this.

well when automation replaces your skilled trade ajd you have to start something new you'll realize what a cunt you are for thinking that nonsense

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Addressed it here

Florida ftw. Break my back everyday doing hazardous shit still get paid only 10 bucks an hour. Granted a little higher than minimum wage, but not worth the shit they want me to do most days.

it was mostly an aside. I couldnt imagine single digit cigarettes anymore. Hell the bootleggers sell them for 8 illegally. Dont wanna derail the topic on this of course just saying

>>i never had any ambition and stayed doing the the worst most worthless job possible because it was easy

Sorry your fast food job would let you retire to your own private island but maybe you shouldnt flip burgers for 30 years

Actually increasing taxes on goods like cigarettes is not primarily done as an incentive to lower demand. Its primary goal is to provide the government with more tax revenue.

Yeah that's what people said when we mechanized farming. New jobs just pop up because there's always stuff to do.
>but they'll automate those too
Can't automate a job until it exists. The worker has to come before the automation.

If you want to work shit jobs because youre too stupid or too much of a pussy to get a real one stop bitching. Go get a laborer job at any of the local trades and work your way up . Starting pay is about double min. wage and after a few years youll be making great money but lazy pussies wont go this route bitching is so much easier.

Yeah but the politicans love dressing it up as that showing how much they care while lining their pockets and then offering to improve you lives by raising Tyrones wages for him to get your order wrong at McBurgerhut

100% made poor life choices that landed them into having to work a minimum wage job as an adult.

Blah blah blah.
No u the incel.

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Where I live cigs are about 5-6 bucks. Before 2008 they were less than 4 a pack. Either high cost of living or shit politicians.

Correct. That's how politics works. Often policies are paraded as being for one thing when in reality they're another.
It's all about making themselves look good while pushing boundaries. Or at least it used to be, nowadays it's more about outright lying, apparently. But I digress.

wrong. inflation is not connected to minimal wage and when you can't pay 10€ per hour you should think about the profitability of your business in general.

Just keep thinking that. Good things only happen to good people. Bad things happen to bad people. NOTHING IS RANDOM. Every good choice lead to my success. Every poor choice lead to your failures. /s How fucking dumb are you?

You can certainly live a "normal" 1938 life on the current minimum wage. Just give up every modern amenity in your life, phone, tv, internet, etc.

Minimum wagecuck here. I fucked some stuff up pretty bad to end up needing to bus tables again to make a living. It sucks but when I look back I was a few decisions away from having it made teaching History with full health care and a cushy life. It still pisses me off mostly because it was a few small things at a time I never noticed but damn

those stats include people making under the proposed increased minimum wage too. Assuming everyone in the statistic is making minimum wage is stupid. Indiana's minimum wage is 7.25 or something. A single person can't live off that. It's literally not possible to pay rent and not starve to death at least where I live. So the stat blankets everyone making under I assume like 15 an hour. Just as a clarification.

It's not that corporations cant it's that money hungry people dont wanna lose money. Paying peons more money is them losing money. I don't think that can be any simpler. Rich people arent gonna take a hit in wage payments and not do anything about it

Okay but it still causes inflation. You don't want inflation, its a tax on everyone except the people printing the currency.

Thanks for proving my point and enjoy being poor you whiny pussy.

I'm actually already retired. not old retired, just retired and living off of various residual incomes.
but your compassion for your fellow man clearly isn't showing.

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Yeah because every employer has a Scrooge McDuck Moneybin for the giant profits they always make and certainly dont skirt by where the price of fractions on expenses can make or break a business

Thats retarded. They don't lose money, the price of goods just goes up.

If you were worth something, you'd be making more anyway.

so its basically helping old feminists who never married

No it isn't. Not in the case of cigarettes at least.

Realistically inflation is going to happen due to firms wanting higher profits. That means they're unlikely to cut prices for their goods/services in the long-term and likely to reduce costs. Reducing costs also means buying cheaper from other firms, which cuts into their profits, and so forth.

That's pretty much the way it works.

That's what I'm trying to tell the wagecucks.

>I want 15 an hour to cook a burger
>that won't cause inflation
>oh sheeeet why's my McRib now cost 9 dollars for the sandwich
>its trumps fault cuz of the trade wars

>>Having good economic sense is murder hou nazi

You sound like the trust fund liberals that encourage the retards that become Antifa when they cant live like kings off their Barista job

That's not how inflation works.

It absolutely is. Demand for goods like cigarettes is known to not change much for price increases. In other words, increasing the price of cigarettes does not reduce the amount of smokers by any meaningful amount. It may curb the introduction of new smokers, but it is unlikely to affect many current smokers.
Therefore the only real gain from tax increases there is the increased revenue.

Make good choices and you will have a good result, regardless of your starting position.

reminds me of being a landscaper.

There is a LOT that factors into inflation. I am not explaining the entire thing, just the firm-related part (and in short).
What I'm saying is that one of the factors for inflation is firms' costs. With their primary objective being profits, they will do all they can to maximize profits if they are acting rationally.
Therefore their contribution to inflation is unlikely to change without massive policy shifts across the board.

yeah. i get that. i went from being a landscaper to being a devops architect.
i automate the fuck out of shit.

not that landscaping will be automated anytime soon but i wanted more out of life so i had to put in the effort. learned some shit. got some certifications and life is way better now but even then. my job is probably just a trend and I'm already exploring other options because I'm bless with the luxury of boredom.

>That means they're unlikely to cut prices for their goods/services in the long-term
But thats wrong because they undercut each other to steal customers. If you want an example of a firm reducing expenses and then reducing prices afterword, look at standard oil

There's some extras after the fact as well. Based on what i found a large number of working people(42% of those working in the US) are paid below 15$/hr.

Assuming it goes up to 15$ what's the difference between that and other jobs which make similar money now? For some jobs which are particularly annoying or tiring it will mean that a lot more people can afford to go "Meh, this only makes 30% more than X and X is a lot easier. I think i'll go with X.".

At that point it'll naturally lead to an increase in all other wages close enough to 15$ in order to make those jobs attractive again, which in turn will cause more inflation.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Minimum wage is supposed to stop corporations from preying upon the desperate, fuck that starting wage bullshit.

Imagine being the dumb asshole that worked his tail off getting a better job that actually paid him 15 bucks an hour and all of a sudden he is paid as much as a burger flipper and definitely aint getting a government approved raise

Minimum wage was designed to give people enough money to live a reasonable quality of life for the work that they do. Not as a bare minimum to allow you to eat ramen 3 meals a day and live in their car while working 50 hours a week.

Really though I think the deeper issue is the availability of decent quality housing at a fair price. No one is willing to do that though, every city wants to build luxury apartments because that will hopefully bring in people with higher income to spend more money in their city, but instead they sit half empty and waste space that could be used by people in need.

don't make fun of the butt-babies user, it's not cool.

>be Canadian
>business owner
>massive credit card debt, barely able to keep company afloat because i bought too much new shit too soon.
>eating raman and losses to keep my guys employed.
>sleeping in the office.
>took up a night job to supplement income.
>no end in sight. fml
>chase drops us.
>woot no more debt!!!

life is amazing sometimes

Good catch, I managed to somehow completely overlook competition influence.
This is why I need to flex my economics muscles more.
That said, the lowest a firm can reasonably cut its prices is until zero profit. Larger firms have much better economies of scale so they can undercut smaller firms with less of a (comparative) hit to their profits (i.e. if a smaller firm wants to compete with a larger firm and they're both aggressively cutting prices, the smaller firm will have to eat negative revenue, which is bad for business).
What I'm trying to get at (somewhat haphazardly) is that minimum wage increases are not actually going to do much in and of themselves, unless firms decide to act irrationally (against profit objectives) and do not increase prices as their costs increase.

Seriously? Does everyone in your world go to college and become doctors or something

It's not that hard to beat minimum wage, any factory job, office job, or medium skilled labor job will pay more. You just have to be not shit mentally or physically.

Thanks for proving my point.
Have sex incel.

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You will have to balance/be aware of several things:
* "Red County" vs "Blue County" rents - it's been observed that contemporary US politics correlates strongly with real-estate costs. Long story short - counties with 365 degrees of expansion possible (think: DFW TX) have lower comparative rents and real-estate costs (and swing Republican); they tend to be more boring (family-friendly) AND have higher transportation costs (commuting, car use).
Counties whose real-estate growth is physically constrained - usually by bodies of water - have higher RE costs and rents; think: SF CA, NY etc. (and swing Democrat); they tend to market hubs, with much more job opportunities, and more exiting for singles - and diverse in all senses. OTOH: tend to have much better public transport options than out in the boonies, so LESS transport costs.
* So, to generalise: High Rent, Low Transport costs, Lots of opportunities for singles; or Lower Rent, Higher Transport Costs, more boring to raise a family (IF you can secure a line of income).

Minimum wage is a subsidy for automation. You think that companies just sit on piles of cash and can just magically pay people more money. That's not how it works. If a worker's wage is less than the value they bring to the company than they will be employed, if the cost of an employee is greater than the value they bring they will be replaced by automation.

All companies want to automate as much as possible because it is cheaper in the long run. However, the cost to automate is high and the risk of the loss of market share during the installation process is real. When the minimum wage is raised by the government it forces all businesses in a market segment to automate at the same time. This means no one company is at a disadvantage during the time they automate. You seem to think a minimum wage is good and that it helps the poor, in reality it hurts the poor and raises costs for middle class consumers.

go for construction jobs, baby

Yeah, I work minumum wage, 8.60/hr, 50-70 hours a week in a fast food resturant. Rent is 450 with bills it's about 750 a month, I have highspeed internet, unlimited phone plan, good food, a kid.

As an addendum, so that people who want to ask "WHAT JOBS MAKE MORE THAN MINIMUM WAGE?" can use their eyes. Quite a lot of jobs to be honest, interesting data as well.

bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm

110 years ago Henry Ford understood that you had to pay your employees enough money for them to afford to buy your products.

I can't believe people are talking about $15 per hour as a livable wage. I made $27 per hour at Ford in 1993 straight out of high school.

fucking idiot pig

when you are paid minimum wage its NEVER a "starting" wage unless u mean thats what u start on and get for the entire time you work for this cheap cunt who only pays minium wage.

U wanna work to get a raise or a promotion AHHAHAHAHAHAH U FUKING IDIOT YOU JUST PROVED YOURSELF A GOOD FIT FOR YOUR MINIMUM WAGE HARD TO FILL POSITION (its fucking minimum wage remember and now they expect a hard worker thanks to you setting precedent, trust me they now want you to work this shitty job for life since they will never find someone as fucking dumb as you who will work hard for minimum wage making the position impossible to fill) good luck getting promoted to supervisor when they are happy with your hard work in your current position fuckbag.
And your assumption that there is a "somewhere else" or is available shows that you don't understand the basic nature of capitalism "the race to the very bottom" which is to destroy unprofitable business with competition (and guess what you fucking idiot paying your least skilled staff a living wage is a exceptional way to be less profitable)
WHAT ALL OF THIS MEANS IS EVENTUALLY THERE WILL BE NOTHING BUT MINIMUM WAGE OFFERED which is already happening.
Also fuck you for supporting finincial slavery you cunt

>you think companies sit on piles of cash...
No, but I recognize that historically companies have preyed upon desperate people and have payed less than competitive wages.
>when the cost if employee is greater than the value...
I never advocated for raising the minimum wage above the value of the work, just that it prevents foul play by companies
>all companies want to automate...
probably, but most minimum wage jobs even with the current minimum wage are far below the cost of automation, there is a point where that cost is hit, but current min wage doesn't approach it.
>you seem to think a minimum wage is good...
I think it is a protection that prevents desperate people from accepting predatory levels of low wages, that's all. Raising it to "living wage" might make sense in certain scenarios, but certainly doing it federally is a mistake due to living expense being drastically different in various parts of the country.

Here's my views on it.

Can someone live off minimum wage? Yes if they know how to use their money properly along with working two jobs. It also makes it easier if there are multiple people working in the same house.

Here is how they can't live off minimum wage. Irrational spending, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, and constantly calling off work while only working one job.

I also see a minimum wage job as a stepping stone. There are plenty of job opportunities along with plenty of chances to get a raise however, due to poor work ethics or lack of trying these jobs get filled with people who aren't qualified for the position.

What is also causing issue's is the fact the government is rewarding people for not doing anything. Welfare is a great idea however, they are supporting people who really shouldn't be supported. There are plenty of Welfare recipients who use drugs, don't work, and refuse to work because the government will pay them for not working. Also if you make too much money these people have a chance at being taken off the Welfare list. In order to get all these extra benefits people choose to work one job while constantly calling off.

It was always meant to bribe stupid people for votes by offering them more money using class warfare. Minimum wage is for the guy that started at the factory cutting chicken feet or mopping floors it was never meant to be livable

This. Raising the minimum wage doesn't help the poor- it slashes the number of jobs available to them and the cost of rent, food etc just goes up to compensate anyway- and it hurts the middle class, because they don't make any more money but the cost of everything goes up. Helps big corporations who can afford to automate, though, because now they have even more of an edge over the little guys.

"Financial slavery" is being expected to subsidize worthless sacks of shit like you.

Its becasue that job mattered and they wanted to keep you. What you have in this debate is people flipping burgers mopping floors stocking shelves and washing dishes that want to do tht forever and be paid enough to keep living in Chicago or SanFran

Well we have someone who's my prime example right here.

If I weren't going to college I would have easily picked up the position of District Manage for the place I worked for due to my work ethics. I would have passed up the 7 other workers who had worked there longer than me because of my work ethics. They choose not to work hard because they get benefits from the government as long as they met specific requirements. One of which included making less than XX amount of money a month.

Minimum wage jobs are a great way to get started working when you're young however, they shouldn't be a place for people to think about being later on in life. They choose to be in this said position for that long.

There should be no minimum wage at all. If you don't have any useful skills, you make what the market is willing to pay you, end of story.

I believe there should be a minimum wage since the jobs that don't require much skill won't be able to abuse their role and give them $1 an hour. Which would clearly not be enough to survive off of. However, a $15 minimum wage is just stupid in my opinion.

>>Fuck you Ima be a artist someday drawing manga
>>Im only washing dishes and living off my link card until I hit it big
>>And pay off 100K in student for that art school I never finished
>>Fucking Drumpf

Ok? Who's fault is it that you went to college for an "art degree?"

It's the same situation with some of these feminists and transgenders. They studied "Gender Studies" in college and now they can't get a job since there isn't any job field that requires this.

Maybe if you had studied a job field where it's actually wanted you'd have a better job. Jobs such as Doctors, Lawyers, and Accountants. The list is rather long but, those are 3 generalized areas you could have studied where you can almost always find a job as long as you knew your field.

or they could you know....work anyplace else or get a good job or live off welfare and food pantries until they find some niche they can fit and get paid for. Instead of bankrupting the small restaurant that had to start restricting straws and napkin usage because of small profit margins and was already only using part timers and Mexicans already

Greentext for a reason. This is how a LOT of these assholes think. They are all going to kake it big as an artist a rapper a vidya designer etc but they end up stocking shelves or busing tables and blaming everything on their all mighty oppressors

I worked my ass off to get a job where I make decent money, and I'll keep doing so and moving up. Anybody can do that. Having a minimum wage, and especially one as laughably high as the $15 that many people are asking for, doesn't help anyone at all and in fact actively hurts the lower and middle economic classes- the lower by incentivizing companies to reduce the number of jobs and to automate, and the middle by raising the costs of housing, food etc while not changing the amount of money they're making.

As I said in one of my other posts a minimum wage job shouldn't be the end goal. Nor should being on Welfare. However, due to poor work ethics mixed in with all the benefits of Welfare make getting a job in a higher paying field pointless.

I dont know, we dont have a minimum wage here in sweden

Me and my brother share a house and live off minimum wage but we have nothing. My mobile home is falling apart, I rarely eat more than a sandwich a day, I have to borrow money to get to work only to give my entire paycheck to pay it back. Yeah it's technically doable but you generally end up with no quality of life

In case you didn't know I'll tell you some of the benefits you can get from Welfare as long as you don't make more than XX amount of dollars a month

Paid Housing
Hundreds of dollars worth of Food Stamps
Free Medical
Also, in some cases a check from the government.

These are just 4 generalized things you can get for "not making enough to live." Regardless if you actually can't make enough to live or you choose not to. I would say these 4 things are are large amount of money that these people don't have to worry about how they are going to get. So, they don't worry about it and just let the Government sort it out.

you’ll be working to live, not living

This thread is pure class warfare cancer.

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Okay but you're giving a section of the population more money without increasing the number of resources in the economy. What makes you think the buying power of everyone else wouldnt fall proportionally? How is this not inflation by definition?

OP, it highly depends on what part of the country you're in. Obviously, you'll want to go as cheap as possible so target a LCOL place.

I've been seeing some great deals in South Carolina, housing-wise. If I were a min wage worker, though, I'd do a househacking situation, though. Try to get an FHA mortgage on a 4plex and rent out the other 3 places.

Well if you're working minimum wage then yes. You'll be working to try to make a living. But, without the drive to move up in whatever job field you are then you'll never make it out of there. In turn making your goal to live rather than live a comfortable life.

what a load of shit, goes more like this work as laborer for a few years on minimum wage get regular but FUCKING tiny raises that barely match inflation, get good at job know how to do everything.

MINIMUM WAGES RISES AGAIN
"FUCK IT I'M ON MINIMUM WAGE AGAIN"

AND YOU FUCKING CUNT IF U THINK IM ONE OF THE LAZY PUSSIES WHO THINK BITCHING IS EASIER, NAH ITS NOT THE CASE YOU FUCKING LEPROUS GOAT I HAVE DONE LABOR/TRADES AND THE ONLY THING I GOT FROM IT (other than my shitty minimum wage) WAS A SENSE OF DOOM ABOUT HOW BLOODY PAINFUL LIFE WILL BE ONCE I HIT 60

Well then you are in the wrong field of work?

Here's an example...
Oil Field A is hiring people at minimum wage while Oil Field B is hiring people at double minimum wage.

The smart move would be to go to Oil Field B. Instead you choose to be in Oil Field A.

It's poor decision making on your end. If some place pays you a certain amount for your work and another place offers you more for the same work. Just get a job there. It's not rocket science.

Yeah cause minimum wage aint what flipping burgers is worth. Inflation is your pay going back to equilibrium.

That's what people don't understand. There are actually Senators who believe "In order to fix out economic situation. We should print more money."

It's idiots like these that are put into office and it makes it down to the idiots on the streets who believe their words as if they are the words of god.

its so easy to invent a simple solution outta thin air mate, what is hard is having that solution be correct and true in real life.
and not: a bunch of bullshit you made up without having worked these jobs/some outdated boomer quote your unfortunate father told you

>just get a job there

Apparently someone hasn’t searched for a job before.

What about 90 iq brainlets that cant become doctors. Tbh my solution is to pay them what theyre worth, but your pull yourself up meme doesnt work for most people.

I have searched for a job before. It's not hard to find a job that's hiring. There are always jobs available to work at however, many people choose not to work there.

If you're working at an Oil Field and getting paid minimum wage but, they refuse to pay you more. What's stopping you from going to their competetor? There is a reason they are each other competition. It forces them to make their employee's happy. If they don't then these said employee's will move on. Or at least the smart ones*

Solution

>>They get a dangerous ob that pays more weighing their inability to do anything better with risk driving a truck working an oil field or fishing on some deadliest catch shit

>>They die and dont pass on 90 IQ genes to 8 kids on welfare

Fair enough

I'm not saying it isn't inflation (or if I did, I should not have implied that). I was (or should have been) saying that it is not all of inflation. I probably got side-tracked after a comment or two.

What I should have said in the first place is that minimum wage increases are inflationary, but that does not necessarily mean that there will be inflation if other factors of inflation counter-balance it - in other words, if policies are taken by firms and government alike to actively prevent inflation from rising.

Inflation is used to assess national growth though so most countries set a positive inflation target. We actively want inflation, just small, controlled amounts of it.

That's why there are minimum wage jobs. For this specific reason. During my time working I've worked with around 80 people who were paid minimum wage jobs. Of those 80 people there were 7 mentally handi-capped people who worked. About 40 others chose not to work more than a specific amount of hours or get paid more since it would affect their Welfare in some way.

The rest of the workers were actually either College/High School kids or others working a 2nd job to make more money.

It's the persons choice as to how they want their work ethics to reflect.

The funnypart is option B never actually happens. There are always enough charities and programs to help others out no matter how low they get as long as they are willing to try. The homeless scummy bums you see living like that forever and a day are there because they dont really want to do any better

What you're saying only helps those that already have jobs, not those who do not have jobs, like OP. You don't have leverage or experience when you haven't had a job before.

Are we talking about no job experience ever?

If so I know for a fact 90% of fast food places are hiring and will higher people with no experience. But, people ignore it and say "it's beneath them" even though it's a paying job.

In Wisconsin the minimum wage is 7.25 an hour and even if you work full time, you will not be able to take care of all of your bills with no help. You will need a roommate(s). It's not enough to survive on.

While I lived in Ohio I worked at a fast food restraunt and there were 5-8 applications a day. We would hire almost all but 1 of them. If we were lucky 1 of those 7 that were hired would come in to work.

The rest just put in the application because they were required to. In Ohio in order to recieve certain Welfare perks or unemployment you have to make it look like you're looking for a job. Once you get said job you don't get those benefits.

That is why many people choose to not get a job.

Ive been there before. It was tough enough working my way through college when I couldnt get X job because Tyrone with his Collio braids looking like Dilberts boss got a job because the company got kickbacks for hiring felons. Of course then the government grant I got to get into community college dried up because every out of work SOB in the ghetto found out they got the leftover money after taking all their classes so they community college swelled up and I was one of the cuts they needed to make to keep things fair

The expansion of the welfare state and the need to hand out more shit just like higher minimum wage does nothing but push poor assholes who actually want to do better like me under even more

Since I don't live there I wouldn't know however where I live working 1 job at 40 hours a week at minimum wage. Isn't enough to survive off of. This is why work ethics come into play. There isn't stopping someone from working 2 jobs. There also isn't anything stopping someone from getting a raise or a promotion. Minimum Wage shouldn't be your goal to live off of. It should be a starting point to get you on your feet.

They raised it here and prices everywhere did go up. My pay and anyone elses pay did not go up to match. Another law that benefits the people who make poor life choices at the expense of those that did not.

If the objective is only to get "a" job, regardless of what that job is, then yes it is simple as applying for literally every garbage-tier job.
That is very rarely the only objective though.

You can take min wage at first but always be looking for better.

>fast food places
They only hire minorities for good goy points (and government diversity money). At least in Florida where I live. I cannot count the number of times that I or someone I know has applied to a fast food joint then either gotten no response or a phony interview where they say no in person, then gone back later to find they hired some fat black woman instead.

Well you need to start somewhere.

You can't expect your first job to be a multi-million salary job. As I said before they choose not to work at a paying job.

Yiou could also leave

I fucking left the huge city for rural downstate in a small town and im living like a king off half the expenses I had living in a slum with roommates no internet/cable and no wondering when I have to fight off a homeless guy with a knife again

Then move

>There isn't stopping someone from working 2 jobs
This is a problem. You should not have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. It's bad economically because you have half the people working the jobs available, meaning unemployment rises. This is pretty much the argument for minimum wage increase, but that alone is never enough to solve the problem because of everything discussed in this thread.

Where I used to live there were 7 Fast Food places and 9 Restaraunts. I didn't live in a very populated area and all 16 were hiring. In other words in more populated areas with more businesses there are just as many hiring.

Then find another job

That's always an option as well....

What people don't understand is if they used their brains they can easily figure out an outcome. Instead they choose to bitch and demand to get more benefits for doing nothing.

doesn't matter if you raise the minimum wage, the prices will just go up to match the pay raise

Do you understand how many jobs are actually out there? There are more jobs than people in the U.S. but, people choose not to work....

You want to talk about Unemployment start asking these questions. For those on unemployment how much money do they get weekly? Also how many of those people on unemployment get benefits from Welfare.

I don't know what the numbers are but, I would say the numbers for both those questions are pretty high. This is why people CHOOSE not to work.

Higher minimum wage doesn't mean higher pay. It means the money is worth less and so it just stays the same

Yes because truly, the man who is already financially in the hole can pick up and move to a place where he has no family or friends or connections to rely on, with his $0 in capital to get started there.

Moving is almost never an option because it requires money to do so.

Stop thinking that every min wage job is a huge Corp. Tons of mom and pop stores hire min wage workers so the owners can actually go home after 12 hours of being there.

and they are encouraged to do it. Its free propaganda distribution. This poor poor soul is disadvantaged not because he got stuck in a bad situation but because the government isnt paying out enough to keep him afloat. We need your votes to save people like him and YOU

Oh sure it leads to things like as the pie gets spread to think to ever actually help anyone but hey your Mayor just bought a new yacht

youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvHXjKloNs

Not only that but, working 2 jobs at minimum wage is the smart thing to do. You make more money and spend less due to you not having time to spend your money.

I can't speak personally but I know that my uncle (he's mid 60s right now) doesn't work because, and I quote from him, he "gets more from social security and unemployment and welfare than he would from a regular job"

Yes and it is expected that a first unskilled job will be terrible pay. Career advancement afterward is dismal at best for many of these jobs, meaning that unless you're putting time outside of work into earning qualifications, you're going to be stuck in a dead-end job earning shit pay for a very, very long time.
Strangely, this is not a very desirable outcome.
Now I know you're going to say "just earn the qualifications" or something similar. As stated elsewhere in the thread, some people have to work 2 jobs in order to sustain themselves in their area. This does not leave sufficient time outside of work to dedicate to that kind of study.

>counteract inflation
But how? If some guy prints a billion dollars, how do you counteract that without unprinting the money via incinetator? I mean you could unprint other people's money so the net amount of currency stays constant, but thats indistinguishable from theft.

>Inflation is used to assess national growth though so most countries set a positive inflation target.
Im starting to think this is a bankers bamboozle. They claim inflation is good, but why is it good though?

ah jokes on you, i live in cannuckistan and they already charge that. our $20 min wage is coming into full effect next summer and mcdonalds pre-emptively started serving soyboy vegan friendly beef cause they realize nobodies paying 5 bucks for their shitty food.

everything here seems pretty correct except for one thing,
"it'll naturally lead to an increase in all other wages close enough to $15 in order to make those jobs attractive again"
should read
"It'll naturally lead to your business owners/govt. getting in more migrants to fill the shortage of skilled workers which will cause wages to stagnate across almost all jobs, these workers will either then move their extended family into the country legally/illegally who will gleefully take any job at any pay rate legally/illegally causing wages to regress to minimum wage in almost all jobs making you poorer or they will send as much of their pay out of the country artificially lowering the value of your local currency which also makes you poorer"

so yes its very much the gift that keeps giving not to mention how soul crushing it is to know that some kid who isn't even working hard at the supermarket gets paid the same amount as you do for doing construction

Poor planning and financial capabilities. What you have done is put yourself in a state of mind where you can't move because "I can't afford it." With you actually working and having a proper financial budget you can easily make a change in your location.

What is your definition of a "dead-end job?" You see my definition is a minimum wage job. With these said minimum wage jobs there are chances to move up in that field without "qualifications" such as fast food. A General Manage at a Wendy's can be paid 45k a year. Not requiring them to go to college or special classes.

There are opportunities however, people ignore them.

Im actually in a situation like that now. I got established in a small town washing dishes and it absolutely fucking sucked ass. I worked my fingers bloody on a minimum wage job but made it and cut all my expenses down to nothing to get by. I asked to move to busing tables where I get poked by less knives dropped into murky water by lazy waiters and I had experience but they needed a dshwasher more and only paid lip service to my request. So I fucking saved my money and left. Im looking for a new job right this second and im going to try again

There are a lot of jobs but many of those jobs are utter garbage that will be replaced by automation eventually. Your quality of life actively deteriorates when doing these jobs.
If you demonize welfare recipients then you also demonize people like which are fully aware that being on welfare is a shit situation and are actively working to get themselves a proper job.
The solution probably does not lie within improving the welfare system, but in improving the state of minimum wage jobs, but that is not an easy task either because many options for doing so are essentially another form of minimum wage increase.
It's a very, very complicated topic.

Ahh yes, the classic liberal that can predict the future.

There are quite a few measures governments and banks can take to counteract inflation if they need to. Many of these are employed to control inflation currently.
I couldn't give you an answer off the top of my head about why inflation is actually a good thing, I haven't really had time to look down that particular rabbit hole yet.

Yes that's the issue. I'm not saying your uncle is bad or anything however, there are people who play the Welfare system and not do anything.

There was a guy who hadn't worked a job in 14 years. Because Welfare paid for all his living expenses.

What we need is to keep minimum wage the same and start cutting Welfare.... That will force the dead weight people to actually start working.

>What we need is to keep minimum wage the same and start cutting Welfare.... That will force the dead weight people to actually start working.
That has been shown time and time again to simply not work. All it really ends up doing is making people starve.
Ending the job-search aspect of many welfare programs that artificially inflates the number of job applicants may be part of the solution.

Not really. Companies will automate when they can , min wage went up here and diy kiosks exploded at all the grocery stores . Now the hire less people. Companies will not raise wages that are above min wage . If someone leaves s harder job at 20 bucks an hour to go work min wage, there will be 20 applicants the next day who would love to go from 15 to 20 bucks.

You quoted me there and Ill tell you how to fix that shit right now. Dont give fucking government benefits for hiring McCarjack dont give niggahs free money to pretend to go to college and let me get my last fucking credit to graduate without cutting me off. Problem fucking solved and now I aint taking the job mopping floors some other guy needs to move up because I have a real job

I'm not talking about myself you mong.

And just because I feel like proving someone wrong, let's do some numbers shall we?
The minimum wage in Florida (I can only speak for FL because its where I live but most states have similar numbers) is 8.46 USD per hour. Assuming someone works 40 hours a week, that's $338.4 a week, or roughly $1470 a month (some months have more or less days after all). If you prefer a more concrete figure, there are 52 weeks in a year (unless its a leap year), which means that person is getting $17645.

I challenge you to find a single large population center where it is feasible to live off $17.6k a year, let alone leave any left over for moving. Electricity alone tends to cost around $1,500 a year in Florida. MIT (yeah that MIT) estimates that a single adult with no children would need somewhat in excess of $25,000 a year to survive in Florida.

So good luck moving when you are already ~$7,400 short.

It's almost like people build houses to make money.

Again these are paying jobs. People are CHOOSING not to work at them because they are seen as "utter garbage." What does it matter if that job gets replaced by a machine? A minimum wage job shouldn't be your end goal. It should be a stepping point. However, no one wants to start there and expect to get paid $15 an hour right off the bat.

I'm not demonizing Welfare Recipients. I have demonizing those who abuse it. There is not reason for someone to go out of their way to work less than 30 hours a week in order to maintain their Welfare benefits. There is a huge difference between abusing the system and using the system to get back on your feet.

The problem is that most people are incapable of doing something more valuable than minimum wage.
You actually need an IQ of like 105 to be a store manager.
People with an IQ less than 85 or so aren't officially retarded enough to get gibs, but they are to stupid to be useful in today's economy.
That's like 15% of the population.
The question is, what do we do about these people? If they aren't satisfied they'll turn to crime, so we can't just "let them starve".
We either have to begin a eugenics campaign, which is wildly unpopular, or take care of people.
Personally I think UBI is better than a high minimum wage, since it doesn't hurt small businesses as much, but really I'd like to selectively genetically modify people for specific tasks, creating castes like eusocial insects.

So, why should we reward those who don't work?

If people choose not to work and just use the government why are we liable to put food in their mouths? Working should be a requirement not a suggestion. If they choose not to work we shouldn't have to pay for that.

Yeah you fucking can. Humanity survived millions of years with these same stupid fucks plowing fields and swinging a sword. They can survive today just fine working retail and having toliet paper and cable

I have already addressed why taking minimum wage jobs does not adequately work as a stepping stone in this day and age. It used to, but it absolutely does not currently.
This may be in part due to the majority of the jobs being created being these low-paid no-prospect jobs, which are no-prospect in part due to (mostly) nontransferable skills and disproportionate management jobs being created.

Retail jobs are disappearing. Factory jobs are disappearing. Fast food jobs are disappearing.
There will soon be no jobs for idiots.

As I said in previous posts. A minimum wage job should be a stepping point. Working as a General Manager can get you 45k a year.

To add to that what's stopping you from getting a 2nd job? You are in that situation because you are choosing to either not get more work or to advance.

Also don't say they aren't promoting people. I've worked in plenty fast food places so, I know they are always looking for management and new employees.

Also doesn't help that most of these low end jobs are now contractor jobs and not regular ones, just so companies can get out of paying for benefits and expenses and so on.

There isn't anything requiring a certain IQ for management. You just have to know how to do your job, have good work ethics, and look to be promoted.

All of which most minimum wage workers choose not do to.

Very soon most of the low level employees will be replaced with robots.
It's happening everywhere, starting with cashiers.

its not that related to IQ either, i have worked beside smarth people that made mistakes on their youth and now they have to work for minimun wage while others are intelligent but too lazy to take 5 hours of their day to learn a trade job. getting a proper education and by that i mean any degree or certification that could land you a job is a sacrifice that most dont want to do, as long as they have enought to live and buy beer they are fine.

So, why don't you get 2 jobs and save up enough money to get the education to be able to work in more specilized fields?

This is the issue with people. They don't want to do things that require more work than they already do. Instead they want others to spoon feed them whatever they start whining about.

Shit, forgot to add something.
This can be applied to you, too.
Abusive welfare recipients are few and far between. Many are either actively looking for work or literally cannot due to some injury or impairment. Reducing welfare only makes it that much harder for people who will be to work, and actively reduces the quality of life of those that cannot work at all. Not all of those who cannot work are mentally ill, some simply have injuries that prevent them from working most jobs. Some of those would be able to work some jobs in theory, which goes back to my previous point - reducing welfare makes it that much harder for people like that to get by.
Abusive welfare recipients is an overblown story thrown out by governments to justify cutbacks.

>you just have to know how to do your job
exactly
People with an IQ

Yeah thats fucking laughable. The upsurge in minimum wage is whats making automation a cheap alternative to hiring people and even then until you have perfectly human cyborgs with all the reasoning skills and ridiculously complex sense of balance/agility than nature gave a set of biped upright shaved apes you are never replacing people

Contract jobs are known to be exploitative, which is why governments would need to intervene to mitigate antagonistic firms.

Jordan Peterson has a great video on IQ and the sad life of the naturally dumb

Again - I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF.
How fucking retarded are you?
Also, I know of no faster way to kill yourself than a second job, particularly if its a physical job. And most minimum wage jobs do not have transferrable skills or upward opportunities

You didn't address the fact I pointed out it should be a STARTING POINT. If you're aiming to work a minimum wage job forever you're doing it wrong. As of right now they are hiring for minimum wage. Start working and create a goal as to where you want to go.

Most of those guys have mental health problems.

lol
yeah why would I buy a machine that never gets sick or complains when I could hire a person

You didn't address the fact I pointed out it should be a STARTING POINT. If you're aiming to work a minimum wage job forever you're doing it wrong. As of right now they are hiring for minimum wage. Start working and create a goal as to where you want to go.

Most people working 2 jobs are doing that literally so they can afford to survive another day - most often these people do not have the spare cash to put into savings, certainly not the amount they would need to be able to take several months or years off of work (or even from one of their jobs) in order to seek better qualifications. If they had the capital to do that, they would not be in a situation where they need to work 2 jobs in the first place.

No, it's not possible and if you attempt it, you're a moron. And if you're doing a min wage job and try to support your family on it, that's your own fault and you need to get your shit together

You really don't understand. You expect that everyone is capable of success, which is untrue.

Because developing the machine was expensive as was implementing it. The hurdle that has always prevented full automation of these low level jobs has been available practical tech. However once you have artificially inflated the worth of these jobs its now cheap for a robot that runs the McDonalds cheap at the equivalent 13-14$ an hour than to pay Mookie 15 to get your order wrong

People have survived for millions of years. I think humanity has an alarming tendency to dust itself off and live even the dimnwitted ones you are writing off as incapable of doing it without everyone elses money

What "injury" prevents them from working. Name a few common injury's that prevent some from working and I can name a job that they can work at for minimum wage.

You think they "are few and far between" however, I've worked with quite a bit of people on Welfare. Here's some things I can name off the people I've seen on it.

They use the money they get from Welfare to buy drugs.
Every year a woman would have another child to increase the amount of money she would get from Welfare and not have to work.
Whenever they had too much hours they called off of work.
People put in applications to work at a place however, chose not to work because it would stop them from recieving their benefits.

You say it's rare however, I used to live in a somewhat small city. Over the course of 1 year I met roughly 60 people who didn't come to work because of Welfare benefits. That's not counting those in other small cities or those in large cities. People abusing the Welfare System is a fact of life and should be fixed. But, instead they choose to increase minimum wage.

Not true, a 16 year old I know just got a job making a hell of a lot more than min wage and it took him only a couple weeks to find it. His friend makes less, but more than min wage at a marina. You just have to look around. You can even make more than any fast food by working online. The money is there you just have to be more observant.

I am doing this and I have never been so dead inside in all my life. Its fucked up my guardian kicked me out when I was 19. I never have money. I can't afford a car. I stay inside all day and get high and drink in bed. It's so miserable. I wish I could get a better job.

>>I stay inside all day and get high and drink in bed

I think I found your problem right there

mfw make a little more than double minimum wage ($7.25 is minimum here) with benefits working at a bakery. I have a HS diploma that isn't necessary considering I'm the only one on my shift that has one and my shift requires no exp (sucks bc retards get hired sometimes). if you make minimum wage you're a retard working a teenager's job or you're actually a teenager. inb4 boomer I'm 23 in college to make career style racks - but going to school working with teenager's at dominoes won't pay my tuition and bills, nor any adult with a decent lifestyle. apply yourselves faggots. making money is fucking nice.

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This user points out something very important.
You are assuming that all persons are capable of this level of thought, but that is not true. Average intelligence is not great and approximately half of the population is worse than that.
Now factor in the rest of what you need to be successful - it does not paint a promising picture. And even then, there will inevitably be some people stuck permanently in minimum-wage jobs, because there are not enough better-paid jobs to move onto. This is partly explained by an increasingly ageing population that is still in work, and is working for longer as they age.

I've already gone over this... Not only that but, using "no faster way to kill yourself than a second job" is nothing more than an exccuse... Literally laziness is all that means. Get 2 jobs work and go to school for a better work field.

Those who choose not to do this is just lazy.

Where do you get the money to drink on and get high if you never have money.......

FDR would like a word with you.

I went to college. Took out loans. Had a job. Lived at home. My life was wakeup, drive 2 hours to school, go to work right after school, two hour drive home, study, sleep, repeat. It's called sacrifice. Now have cush life.

I knew a girl who worked 4 jobs. She would wake up every day around 5 in the morning and would work until around 9 at night.

She was barely able to pay her bills. The reason for this was because she spent her extra money on stupid things such as ear rings, fancy clothes, and new phones.

You say you need to take time off work. That's false. You can work and go to community college. It's whether you're willing to put the time and effort into it. Which most people are not

You can survive on min wage. Rent and the bare minimum. Problem is the mon wage doesn't allow any room for upwards mobility in society and that is what cuckservatives don't understand. They are happy being the bitch their whole lives because they have been sold a dream that with enough hardwork they can be millionaires too.

Honestly, most people working a min. wage job, in my experience, deserved to be there. They are stupid, lazy, or just undesirable to work with. I'll keep my cushy office job that pays well and keeps all those hob goblins out!

I don't know if they guy is telling the truth but, this is what you'd essentially be doing. People don't want to do it because it's more work than they are willing to put in. Next time someone says they can't afford to live ask these questions.
How many jobs do you work?
How many hours?
How much are you paid?
Do you have a financial budget?
How much are you spending on non-essential living tiems?
You'd be surprised with some of the answers you get. I knew a couple who worked and said they couldn't afford to buy food. But, they made sure to put away $80 a week to be able to buy their weed and $50 a week to buy their cigarettes.

In the more physically demanding jobs there are various injuries that can prevent an individual from working anywhere from a few days to years. I shouldn't need to go into graphic detail, but most of these could be classified as limb impairment. This is a small amount, though, but it's important.
There are also various diseases and illnesses that can prevent an individual from working, the most popular (media-wise) of which is cancer. The most popular (actually) are cardiac issues. A number of these for shorter time-frames will be covered by their employer.

You're being overly punitive to those abusing the welfare system but you're not doing anything to actually fix that, you're just trying to punish them for acting rationally. A rational person will do all they can to improve their own quality of life. If their quality of life is likely to notably drop (such as from taking these garbage-tier jobs), they are unlikely to take that course of action.
Now you have two ways to change that - make the alternative to working these garbage-tier jobs even worse, which at this point is equivalent to starving or outright killing them off, or make the garbage-tier jobs slightly less soul-destroying to take.
There are ways I could think of that are likely to change this, but reducing welfare is not going to lead to the effect you would like.

I never said we were going to go extinct.
These people are capable of feeding themselves and finding somebody as dumb as they are to fuck, but that's not desirable.
Relative inequality hurts a society a lot more than absolute poverty. If we were all dirt farmers there wouldn't be a problem.
It will be cheaper eventually. It's a question of when, not if.
The problem is that, rightly, we have decided that people shouldn't be too unequal. We just chose a dumb way of trying to fix it.
And before the egoists jump on this; it's actually in your best interests to prevent people from being too unequal.
When people, particularly men, feel that the system is rigged against them, their natural response isn't to try to do better; it's to destroy the system.

Minimum wage in most first world countries is tied to inflation so yes they are closely related, in third world countries like america it gets decided randomly on a whim and changes drastically depending on the politicians whims.
Inflation can drive minimum wage and Minimum wage can drive inflation as they both are highly intertwined.

Secondly a minimum wage hike usually ends up in firings, replacing workers with automated tools and working existing workers a lot harder to "get their moneys worth" which forces unskilled / untrained workers such as teenagers trying to pay collage tuition or buy halo of dutyfield 5 with some spare cash for their playbox one

>You can work and go to community college
Correct, but not if you do not have the time available to actually do that.
If all of your spare time outside of work is spend preparing for work and otherwise taking care of yourself, then you do not have the time to go to community college.
Anecdotally, many people I know or know of are more than willing to put in this effort, but they quite literally do not have the time or money to do this. This can only partially be explained by poor prior life choices (like having a kid in your teens), the others don't have similar issues.

Inflation is good for those with debt as long as incomming money increased. Inflation goes up, pay goes up, tax revenue goes up, easier to pay debt. Inflation is bad for the ones that made good life choices and saved money. Now that money is worth less because it can buy less.

I have said everything you've stated in at least one of the comments you quoted, user.

Please remember that there are no tripcodes and you are annon, unless you are the guy i replied to in which case
YEAH I'M A PRIME EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE ALL THAT SHIT U TALKED ABOUT LIKE DOING TRADES/CONSTRUCTION (they all pay minimum wage to start)
AND
FUCK YOUR FUCKING WORK ETHICS THE ONLY REASON THEY MEAN A THING IS BECAUSE UR BOSS HAS SOME ETHICS AND GENEROSITY IN HIS MAKEUP, LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT IS NOT NORMAL, I ALSO HAVE HAD A BOSS WHO PRACTICED ETHICS BEST BOSS I EVER HAD (and he ethically and legally paid me $4.20 an hour) I HAVE HAD OVER 10 OTHER EMPLOYERS IN MY TIME AND STILL HAVEN'T FOUND ONE THAT IS GENEROUS BUT ALMOST ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN GREEDY ENTITLED SHIT HEADS

When you say "Minimum wage jobs are a great way to get started working when you're young however, they shouldn't be a place for people to think about being later on in life."
I assume you are an idiot: minimum wage isn't a great place to start it is in fact THE WORST place to start unless you are considering working illegally for less.
As for not thinking about being there later on I fucking urge you to think long and hard about what a minimum wage job would mean because there is a chance you will train to be something that becomes obsolete and guess what you can expect then. Yup that's right some know it all dick in college who thinks he has even 5% of your experience, skills or knowledge who hasn't done years of hard work implying you are lazy with some horseshit about ethics and choose to be on minimum wage so u can get some very specific rather non existent govt money

ALSO ITS NICE THAT YOU HAVE A SMALL SET OF CHERRY PICKED DATA THAT TELLS YOU THAT PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BE ON MINIMUM WAGE

Wouldn't that be offset by creditors increasing interest rates relative to inflation, so that the debt is increasing more in relation to current inflation?

Tell you what. I'll pay for the rope if you agree to kill yourself with it.

Its a good thing he didnt listen to his Beta test Hillary wife and become a dictator like she told him too

How about instead of taxing us workers more and reducing SS benefits for the workers and instead of giving free money to younger workers to pay off loans, make it easier to retire. I would retire tomorrow from my well paid job and some young kid can take it if they fixed healthcare.

Admit it wgat you really want is a cushy life playing Fortnight working an easy job and blaming all your problems on the thing Family Guy and the Daily Show told you were bad

So, if I worked at a place and ended up getting permanent damage in my hand. You know there is a thing for that correct? It's called Workers Compensation. They will pay a certain amount for if you're unable to work. However, the criteria for this is pretty low. All you have to do is claim pain and if a doctor says he can't find anything wrong the business is liable for it. Now some states do require a doctor to aprove whether the person is inacapable of working due to an injury they can prove. A good bit of the states don't. All you have to do is say it still hurts even when it doesn't and the doctor will provide you pain meds along with that business paying extra for it.

As for cancer that's an exception. I said we need to fix and start cutting down the Welfare however, there are some exeptions. I knew a girl who had a kidney dissease and her doctor told her not to work at all. The minute her doctor gave her the green light she started working again. This is one of those said exceptions

What's not an exception is living off Welfare for 10+ years. Or someone who uses their free Medicaid to go to the hospital whenever they don't want to work. There are countless ways people abuse the system.

I could say how exactlyI would fix it however, it would be a stupid long post and would take way too much time to type it out. There are already others responding to me so, I've gotta respond to them.

nice pair of assumptions firstly that I'm worthless and second that I'm being subsidized but what would I know since ur making up this story about my life

Minimum wage means minimum legally. They can't pay you less. It has nothing to do with a starting wage, or whatever buzzwords you'd like to use. In big cities, you may have some options to look for better work. But in small towns, when people retire from their career, they still want to earn some money instead of sitting around earning nothing. There are lots of examples of this, and lots of pussy zoopers who would rather be neets than earn money. Its not all directly connected to uneducated or young. Some moms just need a few hours while the kids are in school, and a bigger career won't let them work from 10-3. Or a retiree who works at a mini mart. People max out of their jobs, forced into retirement after 30 years, that could be 55 y/o if you started at 25. What are you gonna do for the next 25 years? Watch wheel of fortune?

If you are working 1 job and can't make ends meet either get a promotion or work 2 jobs.

If you are working 1 job and don't have time to be able to go to community college. Then you failed at life. Plain and simple. Even if you are working at minimum wage. If you have 1 job that means you will either make a ton in over time or you just don't know how to allot your time properly.

I'm not the one screaming all caps about how shitty their life is, so...

I don't know how it's bundled together where you are but that would be categorized as "welfare" by the majority of people.
You're not looking into why people are abusing the system in any real depth. They're doing it because it is nicer than dealing with these garbage-tier jobs, which offer shit pay, shit atmosphere and shit bosses which come together to make you feel absolutely wretched by the time your shift ends.

I worked 1 minimum wage job when I was 16-17.
I worked 2 minimum wage jobs when I was 17-18
Then I went to college and worked a minimum wage job from 18-24.
Now I'm an accountant that's making 60k salary a year. Clearly you don't know how to go about working or have any finanical capabilities.

So, instead of bitching on a annon forum you should probablyget your life in check. Minimum wage jobs are a great place to start. You should think about how you're going to move on rather than complain and expect someone else to get you out of the hole you're in.

You don't simply get a promotion because you asked for it. Often, you won't get it anyway, or there isn't a promotion available.
So then you have to work 2 jobs, which as I have stated many times already often means you do not have the time or excess money to save for studying or do the actual studying.

That's the issue. Who's paying for these Welfare recipients? It's the taxes of that state. Aka those who are working. Why is someone who's on Welfare get's more benefits and money than a person who's working minimum wage jobs? You can survive off minimum wage jobs if you tried however, they don't try.

Then when they are given a chance to get a job they choose not to do it because it affects their benefits. That's abusing the system. Something that should be stopped

I was gonna say this.

You need at least a 100 IQ to be an accountant at any level.
You were blessed by nature and it had nothing to do with your hard work.
You must decide whether or not those cursed from birth with stupidity should be treated as equals or as slaves.

Ok so, I've worked in 4 different fast food places. In those 4 places they all had 2 things in common. They were always looking for managers and always looking for more employees. If you show you can do the job better than someone. You'll be priority pick. If that person is your boss and you show to his boss that you're better than him at the job. Chances are you can take his job.

It's really not complicated. You show good work ethics and you can actually get some good opportunities.

>You were blessed by nature and it had nothing to do with your hard work.

Stop being a whiny cunt and put some effort in.

underrated

Your solution is simply to cut all welfare. If you do that, then it's a strikingly capitalist move. Many up until now have voted for social policies like welfare, so doing such a radical shift would cause massive political backlash.
If you think that enough people feel similarly to you, perhaps try and get this on the government's table.
This isn't sarcastic, by the way.

Hard work leads to success for people who have the ability to succeed.
I'm not denigrating your efforts.
However, if somebody who was born stupid put in the same amount of effort, they would never achieve what you have.

You don't have to be an accountant. Not only that you don't need a specific IQ for any job. You just need to know how to do said job.

I suck at reading but, I excell at math. There is a reason I went down the math field. Everyone has some field that they can excell in however, they don't use that field properly or are not interested in it.

Hell there was a guy who was mentally retarded however, he was able to memorize 98% of what he read. IQ has nothing to do with what you're good at and it doesn't have anything to do with what job field you can go into.

I promise you there are some people in the accounting field that are border line retarded however, they can do their job well. Thus they have a job in accounting.

You're a fucking retard nigger faggot

>you don't need to have a specific IQ, you just have to be smart enough to learn the tasks required to do this job

I see this at work everyday. Business owners are closing up shop because of no manpower and the nogs a couple blocks away from the business sit at their apartments and smoke weed and play video games all day waiting for their welfare money.

This was not, nor ever meant to be true you shitgibbon. Minimum wage is the minimum LIVING WAGE.
JAckass.

I have no intention on going into polotics due to the absurd stupidity I would have to deal with between voters and other politicians.

Although I geniunly do believe that any normal working citzen should work and pay for another to sit at home and do nothing but, abuse the system.

It's idiotic that people are ok with the fact that it's happening.

>>what a load of shit, goes more like this work as laborer for a few years on minimum wage get regular but FUCKING tiny raises that barely match inflation, get good at job know how to do everything.

and you say some crap about flipping burgers as if its the same as working onsite standing steel and everything that involves.

I guess it applies and is pretty relevant to the thread tho since a few posts back I wrote about how almost all jobs are becoming minimum wage.

I guess it should be "Yeah cause minimum wage aint what building that building is worth"

and with a callous attitude like that in the future this is where u will be "yeah cause minimum wage aint what being employed is worth"

I am telling the truth.garduated in the 90s with 20 grand debt. Had to buy a car with a loan and move half way across the country for a good job. Had an engineering degree and was debt free in a little over ten years. Living like that taught me how to live frugal and I did sacrifice the years I was in school. Worked min wage in an actual sweat shop stuffing PC boards. Worked pumping gas. No life . Everyone these days just wants all the good stuff handed to them without the sacrifice.

Granted in some states it's not actually a "living wage" however, they don't want to move out of that state or get 2 jobs.

Guess you can't fix lazy or stupid.

Have you tried not being a filthy nigger?

You're a smart person. You're not thinking about the overwhelming majority of average or below-average intelligence people that have these problems. They're not managing their time well, they're not being taught to do that, they don't know how to find out. They're not managing their finances well, they're not being taught vital skills they would need to have even a modicum of the success you have.
The government's job is to, well, govern. So they are naturally looking up to their leaders to do something about this issue, but all they know is that they don't have enough money to live off of. They have to choose between food, electricity, hygiene, education, and all these other things the majority of us take for granted.
But their leaders aren't telling them how to actually go about doing any of this. There aren't people teaching them the skills they require.
All that's being said is "get a job", but they either can't find them, can't land them, or can't do them. When they have a job and make similar complaints, the advice is "get a better job" or "get another job". It's not telling them the reasons why - they're assuming that doing these things will automatically improve their lives, which is all they want.

Also, that guy was probably autistic, not retarded.
He might have seemed retarded due to poor verbal ability, but if you gave him a pattern-recognition IQ tests (the only kind that isn't biased), he'd probably do fine.
Actual retards cannot be accountants, no matter what you think.

But, no matter how much you tell them if they actually worked they could get a better life. They will still demand you fix the problem for them.

Tfw i make less then minimume wage, live with a roomate in a small appartment but am able to live well, but not to well because i can't have the irs snooping.

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If you do not want to get involved in politics then you should not have such an intense opinion about political subjects. Getting involved in politics does not mean you become a politician, it's as simple as making sure you vote, talking rationally to other voters, bringing issues forward to your representative(s), etc.

Why cut it? Just lower the amounts they are given and use the saved money from that to raise min. wage if the state wants. We have a woman in our complex with 2 kids receiving $1500 a month for WIC (food stamps) on top of 2 welfare payments and gets $600 of her rent paid for by Section 8. Its fucked. I wonder why I still work.

Theres more to do with an art degree than "knowing art". In graphic design you have to know a lot of software, a lot of concepts, theories, logos, perspective, plus you have to know how to make some damn fine art. My kid has a portfolio of all sorts of shit a foot thick, magazine cover mock-ups to fine statuary renderings.

I am very liberal when it comes to making opportunities available to young whites.
I'm pretty tired of "other" people getting handouts/help just because they have a "card" to play.

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My buddy I went to college with had 2 kids in highschool. He did same thing. School, work, study , sleep and raise two kids. He worked hard and came out with good career. It can be done.

> Why cut it? Just lower the amounts they are given and use the saved money from that to raise min. wage

You are no longer allowed to participate in financial discussions.

I agree to some extent. I believe the education system is broken due to the fact they don't actually teach life skills. However, work ethics are not something that can be taught.

When I was 16 I enjoyed going to work because it paid me. It was minimum wage but, getting a $450 check every 2 weeks was nice. Although I learned that the more I work the more I got paid. I also learned that if I specialize in a field I can be paid more.

There are always job available but, not enough people willing to work them. That's something that should be changed.

The saved money from welfare, even if you cut literally all of it, would hardly be enough to raise the minimum wage. You forget how much of the population is not on welfare.

Not for fixed rate debt.

It can be done, but discipline is not high on the list of priorities these days, for anyone, when it's as necessary as it's ever been.

Honestly you might be right he could have been autistic however, there are more than just accounting jobs out there.

I can name hundreds of fields where you can get a job and they won't ask what your IQ is. If you can do the job then you can do it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a manager at a fast food place

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Then surely the thing to change is people's attitudes towards working? Fundamentally, from a young age.

I meant I wouldn't step into the political scene as a politician. The shear stupidity that they deal with among one another and other people is just mind boggling to me.

I'm nothing more than a single annon who has no sway over people politically. I'm simply giving my thoughts and my views on the matter.

The issue I see with our economy is with the Welfare abuse. Not the minimum wage.

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Is that such a common thing that it's a significant factor?

Yeah, I don't know how somebody can have such a lack of knowledge about how the economy works.
I don't know what our education system is doing if people think that the government gives businesses money to pay out a minimum wage.

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What the fuck is womens studies anyway? I mean, I know the G-spot can be hard to find, but does someone really need a fucking masters degree to find it?

There are some specialities in certain fields however, in some fields of research it really is nothing. For example Gender Studies.

If you want to be in a certain field study it. However, if you want a good paying job. Make sure the field you study is a field that wants to hire a lot of those people.

You're not doing much to remedy that, though. Punitive measures are rarely reforming. If anything, it may push people to come up with better ways to abuse welfare. Remember, if someone wants to commit a crime, they're going to find a way to commit a crime.
A better way of looking at it is to remove the reason they have to bother trying to abuse the system. If it's easier and better to simply get a job, they will do that. People will do the easiest thing they can.

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I work for a big company. We hire machine operators all the time. Job pays above min wage. Funny thing is, most of the young ones don't last a week and quit. The ones the don't usually get fired for calling in sick all the time. They do nothing but complain about not getting enough breaks and constantly bitch that they should be giving managers jobs and they can do my engineering job.

Socialism has never worked, but socialist policies (like universal healthcare) can massively improve society. Please do not conflate the two, it's misleading.

>minimum wage shouldn't be livable

How's Daddy's money treating you?

>work min wage
>shouldnt be allowed to watch tv

No, you need an IQ of like 115 to be a rocket scientist. To be a manager you only need about 100. It's important to remember that IQ has a normal distribution, so almost all people are near average.
Nobody asks for these numbers because you can see the effects plainly. People with an IQ below 85 require explicit instruction for nearly every single task. Now, that's a generalization, obviously.
A person who measures at 84 might be a better worker than someone who measures at 86 for other reasons, but I'm talking about the population as a whole.
Nobody asks what your IQ is because it's evident from how well you can learn to do a job.

No neccesacrily. People can hate work but, still do their job. Having a good work ethic doesn't mean you have to love working. I just means you know how to do your job and do it properly.

So in a way I would say yes about a young age. Instead of forcing pointless things down kids throats you can teach them about work ethics, budgeting, taxes, etc...

But, the issue also lies with the current and older generations. Some people choose not to work and thus they teach their kids the same thing.

It's kind of like that black woman that was preaching to her kid that the cops came to kidnap her and her daughter and ended up being shot to death because she pointed a shot gun at them. That kid will naturally despise police officers unless they show her a new way of viewing them.

FUCK YOU CUNT I HOPE YOU DO A 4 YEAR DEGREE IN COMPUTER PROGRAMMING AND THE DAY YOU GRADUATE A LEARNING AI IS WRITTEN THAT MAKES YOU REALIZE HOW FUCKING WORTHLESS YOU ARE FOR CHOOSING TO BE IN THE WRONG FIELD OF WORK.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE STUPID FUCK WHO HAS NEVER ENTERED THE JOB MARKET THINKS THERE IS AN OIL FIELD ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET THAT PAYS MINIMUM WAGE, STUPID NIGLET ALSO THINKS THAT ME TAKING HIS BULLSHIT EXAMPLE TO THE CLEANERS MEANS IM TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND "THAT IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE"

JUST GET A JOB THERE. WHAT JUST ROCKET ON IN AND DEMAND IT? SHALL I USE SCIENCE TO ELIMINATE THE CURRENT INCUMBENT?

ALSO YES WE KNOW ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE YOU TOOL, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ITS NOT COMPLEX SHIT THAT ENDS UP DEPENDING ON LUCK (I'M SURE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME SINCE YOU HAVE YOUR CRYSTAL BALL TO SEE THE FUTURE YOU FORTUNETELLING FURFAG)

Abusing the Welfare system isn't easy in the slightest. Most people who abuse it actually have it down to a science.

Yes if someone wants to commit a crime they can. This is why we have the police. They keep those people in check. It's what we should be doing now. Some states to have this however, it's not enforced.

For example in Ohio in order to recieve Welfare you have to either
1. Have a job.
2. Are actively looking for a job.
So, what some people do is put in an application go to an interview. When they get hired they don't show up. When their case worker asks about it the person says "they didn't hire me."

I know. You don't even have to go to college. All my brothers and sisters have careers and I was the only one who graduated college. Young kids these days don't want to work. I see it at my job. We hire operators that gave to run around and load production machines. I would hire a 40 plus person over a 20 something kid any day. I know the 40 year old will show up and work. ,20 something will complain about everything and either quit or be fired within a month.

leaf here. i have a buddy who works full time at tim hortons and he rents a basement apartment for ~750/month
so yeah, its possible. Granted minimum wage up here is 14 bucks, but that converts to fuck all USD

Nigger detected.

In a few words: It's shit.

You always have to hunt for the lowest possible price. You always have to use the absolute minimum resources (showers should NEVER last more than 5 minutes for example), lights should be closed if possible all the time etc.

It's not really a way of life. You should seek at least 1.5x to 2x minimum wage so that you can live at least decently if not alright.

Trust me, it's hard. Don't attempt it because you'll literally have a shit time.

it doesnt matter. Minimum wage is artifical interference in our economy. It hurts low income workers, and people who cannot perform skilled labor. I can go anywhere and get $30 an hour because I know many skilled trades. The people working minimum wage are getting any job they can despite the low pay. People who are employed that way benefit from having more jobs that aren't highly paid. Raising the minimum wage is essentially gentrifying the labor pool. You are going to skyrocket the slightly more capable while overloading them - and cut entirely the wages of low skilled workers. Companies aren't just going to eat the wage hike.

ppl bitching about the minimum wage are just drowned in luxuries and unwilling to sacrifice anything. or they are poor but do nothing of value to earn money.

I'm not going to sit here and say some min wage jobs shouldn't pay more, but there are always other options. Never settle, go get what you want. Easier said than done, but also not as hard as you may think.

If they're being paid, they're doing something of value to somebody.

Alright here's a fact you should know. People with higher IQ's doesn't mean they are better than others. It just means their mental capacity is capable to understand more complex things.

I would say I was pretty smart in High School however, I chose not to apply myself and instead slept throughout all of it. I placed as rank 80 out of 700 students. The 1-10 were people who applied themselves to study and get good grades.

Now there is an average IQ. That average changes every 3-5 years but, the number is always the same. The average IQ is 100.

Your IQ does not equate to how well you can learn your job. Here's an example.
I have great with numbers but, I suck at manual labor. So, I can learn how to do something numbers wise very easily. However, when it comes to fixing a car. It'll be harder for me to understand.

Everyone has a field that they can learn easily.

Not sure we are in the same page. Most loans have an interest rate that is fixed when you sign. There are variable rate loans but I can only think of home loans that this was a thing. Also when inflation goes up, interest rates tend to go down . Refinancing at a lower rate can also save money. Problem is , our interest rates are already very low.

Finding an open position in your area above minimum is more luck than skill. Unless you have connections recommending you somewhere, "keeping your eyes open" means absolutely nothing.

It's the degree I'm going to get for free when Bernie Sanders gets elected and gives free college. I already have a degree but going back for free to hit on a bunch of feminist college chicks. I could manage.

Clearly I know the oil field doesn't pay minimum wage however, the person I was responding to was talking about working as a laborer at minimum wage. Clearly there are other jobs out there. That was the point in that analogy you simple minded twat.

There are hundreds of oil fields in the U.S. you can easily find one with a quick google search you toothless hill billy.

You don't understand that if you're a good worker with good work ethics you don't have to "hope" you get a job. Unfortunately for you. Your family has raised you to be spoon fed everything and hope for the best. Everything in the U.S. is obtainable if you're willing to work for it. Maybe you should try it.

Cunt.

YEAH ITS FUCKING SIMPLE TO FIND A JOB THAT IS HIRING IN ALMOST ANY INDUSTRY - THEY ALL PAY MINIMUM WAGE PERMANENTLY.

THIS HYPOTHETICAL OIL FIELD AGAIN CUNT FUCK OFF WITH YOUR MADE UP STORIES

U WANNA KNOW WHAT STOPS YOU FROM WORKING FOR THE COMPETITOR THEN FOCUS UR LENS FFS IT COULD BE ANY NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD

For specialized fields there are a limited amount of jobs. Which is why you have to be better than the person you're applying with.

This also applies to work ethics. You assume the 40 year old person has more work ethics which is why you'd hire him.

Which is another reason why I've been preaching about work ethics this whole thread lol

Nice.

Just be sure not to run into a college rife with fat, purple haired, feminist nazis... which is most of them...

The niggering intensifies.

Y'all niggers need some Ayn Rand in yo life

"THEY ALL PAY MINIMUM WAGE PERMANENTLY" - You haven't worked a minimum wage job in your life... You can get raises based off your performance. You can also be promoted.

There isn't anything stopping you from applying and getting a job with a competitor. Well stopping any normal person. A dickhead like you probably has an issue getting out of bed in the morning so, I doubt you can get a job.

Cunt.

The best you can do is work at one of these "shit jobs" and bitch about it.

I'll sit back on my cozy job because I know how to actually work and be good at the jobs I do.

Enjoy your life as a forever minimum wage bitch since you don't want to take the advice of someone who knows exactly how to get a good job and not blame others for their mistakes.

Cunt.

I may pretend I'm gay. See him many want to "cure" me. Bonus is that can be an excuse if I'm bad in bed.

and people have the best chances for employment of some type when the wage isnt controlled by outside factors.if they are willing to work for less, more employers might hire them. minimum wage hikes flat out eliminate jobs for unskilled workers (minimum wage earners)

>you can only watch tv by paying for "premium" services
oof

See

Found the autist .

Why should I care more about single mothers than teenagers? If anything it should be the other way around. The stats are making me support it less if true.

HOLY SHIT ETHICS GUY SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SLAVE OWNER GOOD ON YOU

>>There isn't stopping someone from working 2 jobs.
most slaves are capable of 80-100 hours a week amirite
>>This is why work ethics come into play.
how do you divorce the ethical part of "work ethics" so hard that its ethical to advocate working literally to death
>>There also isn't anything stopping someone from getting a raise or a promotion.
your boss not wanting to pay you more?
there being no promotion available? infinite reasons related to greed and incumbency.
DON'T FUCKING TALK ABOUT WORK ETHICS IDIOT, I KNOW UR DAD BEAT THAT INTO YOU WITH SOME EXTREME FORM OF TORTURE BUT FUCK CUNT PLEASE BOTTLE IT.

>>where I live working 1 job at 40 hours a week at minimum wage. Isn't enough to survive off of.
>>Minimum Wage shouldn't be your goal to live off of. It should be a starting point to get you on your feet.

HOW IN FUCKTARDATION DO U EVEN RECONCILE THIS SHIT YOU COCK MONGOLING FREAK, ID LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT IF YOU CANT EVEN SURVIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE THEN HOW THE FUCK SHOULD ONE BE EXPECTED TO GET ON THEIR FEET ON LESS MONEY THAN IT TAKES TO SURVIVE.
It's semantic i know but you're so fucking full of shit I'll gladly point out any part of it that I spot

Found the soyboy millennial .

So is that what you did or did you ever see that happen? or are you just talking out of your ass?

classcuck, enjoy sucking capitalist cock all so you might not have to live with the blacks

We cares about minimum wage what we need is a maximum wage cap

>36
>making minimum wage
>whining about not being able to support a family

I cant imagine how many times you need to fuck up in life to have that be your reality.

>Is it possible for someone to live on their own working on minimum wage renting a home by themselves? If so, what can you tell me about that?
Sure. However, renting an apartment is a fat fucking waste of money. Of course not everybody has this option, but if you can work/pursue higher education while living with your parents, do it. You'll be able to save money to eventually afford a house much easier than if you rented an apartment. Like I said, not everybody has parents that aren't complete degenerates, but I laugh at those who moved out to rent their own apartment when they had perfectly good relationships with their parents and had no real need to move out.

Why does someone have to pay you enough to live off of? If I want leaves raked in my yard do I pay the kid enough so he can live off of or pay him what I think the job is worth? And who decides what enough to live off of is? I see lots of people crying about not having enough to live off of with expensive phones and nice cars. Don't even cry back how you take the bus. You lost credibility when you used the "slaves" meme.

cause u are a worthless piece of scum and are cheaper than a slave for the high wealthy people

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