Anons, when did you realize god does or does not exist?

I was reading Greek mythology when I was 12, and it occured to me that Minerva jumping out of Zeus' skull was the same bullshit story as Jesus leaping out of virgin pussy. That's when I stopped believing in myths.

That wasn’t the question, I’m interested in people’s experiences not your opinion.

That’s somewhat limited thinking IMO, who’s to say every religion isn’t describing the same phenomenon? Not to say all the things written down actually happened, but different texts are trying to make sense of the same energy and humans twisted it to their advantage. If you research quantum physics it starts to show how little we really know about the nature of existence. There’s even evidence to suggest life could be a simulation created by people millions of years from the present to see how their ancestors behaved, then the programmers would be our “god”.

Coming from an educated background, I found that most teaching from any sort of religion are just illogical to science and don't meet up with today's world perspective.
I also feel that is more beautiful to imagine that the universe, as we see it, is a result of order out of chaos, not some old man who felt existence was just "necessary".

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If something happens where you don't know what's going on, the thing to do is acknowledge that you don't know what's going on. If you have some way to investigate, then great, but what you really shouldn't do is start reaching for unjustified answers.

Stopped believing god after he never answered my prayers. I assume religion is a comfort thing like baby blankets to make ppl feel better, but what do i know? Maybe He exists and im already doomed to hell. Ironically i believe in reincarnation, just the concept and not any religious connotations

See

around 7:45pm

it became pretty obvious when i realised religion is built to accomodate for people's beliefs, and how many different religions popped up throughout history. if there is a higher power, it is not like any religion imagines it, that much is obvious.

I was raised as a christian but my mom as agnostic and my dad is a hardcore atheist so we stopped going to church when I was about 12. I was an atheist for the next 12 years, when I was 24 I started going to bible classes just to learn about the stories from an anthropoligical perspective and to learn more about world religion. Reading the Bible and actually understanding the stories as an adult was a powerful experience for me, so I started going to church out of curiosity. A few months later the Holy Spirit converted me and I was baptised, now I sing in their choir, speak the psalter every morning and evening, and pray every day. My depression and suicidal nihilism has completely vanished and I feel full of hope and optimism for the future.

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was born into a religious family
still believe in god, but I fuck up sometimes
kek

>agnostic mom and atheist dad raised their kid Christian
wut

Not sure what you think I mean. I’m not saying unexplained phenomena like UFO’s, I’m saying life experiences where it could random chance or intentional design. I’m not campaigning for a Christian god or any other type of established religion, but I think people get blinded by the scientific approach when they don’t even know much about science. Science actually shows us how little we know about things, god could be some sort of universally balanced equation or constant energy.

I wasn't sure for a long time, I kind of had the feeling that there was no way to know one way or the other. I tried things, I tried experiments to see if God or the devil or any kind of presence was real. None of it came up conclusive. If anything it seemed like maybe he didn't exist, or if he did he didn't have anything to do with life on earth anymore

I still tried, I acted as though I thought he did, I acted as though I thought he didn't. I didn't feel like I was being watched all the time by some creator, that if whoever or whatever created the universe that they were like the clockwork god of the deists, that started the universe and peaced out

Truthfully, the story turned around when I started psychedelics, especially mushrooms. I know that sounds retarded but after that experience I felt a presence, I was absolutely sure that God was real, even if I couldn't understand what he was or if it was the same god from the bible or another religion or none of them. But I'm sure he's there and the universe has kind of a oneness about it, that everything is interconnected and has a purpose and meaning

lots of agnostics bring their kids to church to teach them morals
my dad only expressed his strong atheism after the church we were attending started to express a more being gay is a sin message

Not necessarily talking about established religions. People assume if they don’t agree with any existing religions then nothing exists.

I mean, a lot of things could be a lot of things. We don't know, which was my point. Something that we do know that is that humans have a tendency to see intent even if there isn't any. The monkey who hears the grass rustling and thinks it's a lion is more likely to survive than the one who assumes it's just the wind.

That's bizarre.

"Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom."

>God does or does not exist

Nailed it.

Realizing you don't even know how much you don't know is the beginning of wisdom.

I don't think so. My mom was a christian but she was very lukewarm in her faith. My dad is very smart and once he became vocal about his doubts and criticisms of the church, it didn't take much to undermine the little she had. My dad is very logically intelligent but I would describe him as spiritually deaf in a certain sense, whereas I cannot function apart from God's presence. My mind wanders to eternity, and I have great difficulty in justifying my daily actions if everything equals nothing in the end and my existence is meaningless.

Also

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You take nihilism to the next step, realizing that it is itself pointless, getting on with life not because it has some great cosmic meaning but because it has meaning to you.

This. I think the most important part about psychedelics is they make us realize how little we understand about our “normal” consciousness. Reality is a very fragile concept. People see things on psychedelics, its an example of how there could be more we DONT see when we are sober.

It may sound like hippie dippy bullshit but it’s a great way to think outside the box.

How can you have wisdom apart from the Lord? Science unconstrained by morality is a terrible weapon to be unleashed upon mankind.

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i dont know if god exists, but i rented an old double wide mini home once that i swear to this day was haunted. i was there for about 7 months and i had to call it quits, got a new place.
random noises from the bedroom at the end of the hall, windows would open/close themselves (not in front of you), things would never be where i left them, at night there would often be footsteps going up and down the hall all night back and forth. and it was like an ice box.
also when you did dishes you could look down the hall while standing at the counter. saw someone standing in the bedroom doorway at the end of the hall numerous times.

What does that matter? It has meaning to me? So what? Why should men suffer and sacrifice and give their lives to build a heavenly kingdom on earth when nothing matters in the end? Why not just whore and drink and gamble until there's nothing left? It's a lot easier and the end comes a lot faster.

This is true but also part of my point, humans are so programmed to only see specific things (even if we are good with lateral thinking) the real nature of reality could be a concept we can’t even fully grasp, similar to how the 4th deminsion is something we can’t fully picture.

Morality is inherently subjective, with or without a god.

Sold my soul to the devil,and he gave me what i asked for

>What does that matter? It has meaning to me? So what?
So it would matter to you.
>Why should men suffer and sacrifice and give their lives to build a heavenly kingdom on earth when nothing matters in the end?
Because we enjoy it.
>Why not just whore and drink and gamble until there's nothing left?
Even if your goal is just to maximize happiness, that's not a good way of going about it.

Are mass shooters or people who suicide bomb civilians evil, or is it relative and one of those "live and let live" things?

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They are evil according to our subjective morality.

I understand what you're saying. I just think that "everyone can just come up with their own life meaning" is A: actually not true for most people and B: people usually get that sort of thing dead wrong without proper guidance.

Are you familiar with the stoned ape theory? Basically why we are conscious and capable of complex abstract thought is possibly because our ancestors started taking magic mushrooms and conceptualizing things that weren't immediately in front of them
It's not "proven" per se but there's some interesting evidence that supports it, such as the rapid increase in brain size in our ancestors' fossil records and the concept of shamans, dudes who would go out in the forest and (allegedly) trip on shrooms, then come back with great wisdom to impart on the population about getting along with each other and following rules to make everyone survive in society

It's interesting stuff, especially if you consider the possibility that Moses, Jesus and a bunch of religious leaders throughout history might have gone off and gotten really high and that's where their religious texts about visits with god came from. From an evolutionary perspective religion has been a big hit with survival of populations, and mushrooms could help explain their origin

Most compelling is the kind of wisdom and experience people gain from psychedelics and their parallel with traditional religions, oneness of all people and the universe, love each other, don't steal kill or rape, give worship to god, things that a lot of religions have in common

It's all conjecture but it's cool to think about

No, they're objectively evil. If there's anything the history of the 20th century has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, it's that humans are capable of acts which are evil beyond any shade of subjectivity.

38. After almost two years of being sober I realized that everything about religion is wrong.

There is no such thing as good or evil. They are fairy tales people tell themselves so they can feel like their existence has significance.

I’m not the same guy, but morality could be considered a cultural concept. Similar to how other nations don’t necessarily think democracy is the best form of govt. it could’ve easily been another form of govt that got to the place America is today. It’s a complicated subject because I do believe America’s founding principles are the best and we’re lucky that we came out on top, but I was raised in the US. It’s a matter of perspective and conditioning, some morals empower people while others constrain them.

I think a lot of people underestimate themselves and their fellow man.

Objectively evil is an oxymoron

They aren't. Objective morality cannot exist. Even if you got everyone to agree on what was and wasn't moral, it would still be subjective.

Thinking like this leads almost instantaneously to people committing the worst sort of vile atrocious acts. When people think they are "beyond good and evil" they immediately start doing the most evil shit imaginable.

Really now, in my perspective resorting to labels like "evil," stems from a failure of understanding and empathy. I might not like Osama Bin Laden or Timothy McVeigh but the more you look into their history and motivations, the more you understand how they might have arrived at their particular mental state.

You can label them as evil all you want but I believe that in the same set of circumstances and history it's possible you might have made the same decisions, it's possible that anyone could have

Maybe you don't think so but it's impossible for you to fully know you wouldn't

You clearly have a very low opinion of people

When i figured out it was a gangster's shakedown.

Pic related

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Your implying that god could only be one from an already established religion that has a foundation of morals. There’s infinite religions that haven’t been “created” yet you only consider those that already exist?

Pretty much ever since I was a kid and had even a basic understanding of what religious people meant by God.

The Abrahamic idea of God is laughably ridiculous and contradictory, and a God that's synonymous with "the universe" or somehow totally outside and detached from humans is impossible to differentiate from the nonexistence of such a thing and pointless to talk about.

Any in between sort of God, like a higher being that isn't all powerful or all knowing but takes an active role in human affairs, is pretty baseless unless it's like a really laid back trickster who likes to subtly fuck with people, which would be a bizarrely petty and human mentality for a supernatural being powerful enough to exist outside us and yet simultaneously involve itself with us.

I think people are capable of making a life meaning for themselves, I just think that without the guidance of scripture, many people make the same mistakes people have been making for literally tens of thousands of years. It's not near-sighted to consider wisdom that was painstakingly assembled over countless generations.
Morality is determined by God. There are certain things which, according to God, are objectively good and certain things which are objectively evil. Things which are objectively good include loving your neighbor, protecting and caring for orphans and widows, visiting and comforting prisoners, and practicing forgiveness and compassion. Things which are objectively evil include murder, adultery, theft, idolatry, and unreasoning hatred.

Here's your answer kids.religion is for ppl who are too anxious to accept that life is meaningless. Religion=mental illness

It sounds plausible but I would think mushrooms would have a different effect on already conscious people if it were true. The idea of when/how/why consciousness began is extremely interesting.

I don't agree with this at all, there's plenty of basis for people living and existing in peace without objective morality
I don't necessarily need to change your mind but that's my opinion

agnostic fags

I think humans are great when they have the proper guidance, but without it, yeah they can do some pretty horrific stuff and feel great about it. I studied in some detail the atrocities of nazi germany, soviet russia, and communist cambodia. I know how fucked up people's morality can get when they decide to abandon their traditional moral structures because "we don't need them anymore, we're too advanced for them now."

>It's not near-sighted to consider wisdom that was painstakingly assembled over countless generations.
You can consider it, but you shouldn't slavishly follow it. The people of the past got a lot of things wrong, and we probably are getting a lot of things wrong to.
>There are certain things which, according to God,
That's the thing. That would still be subjective, just subjective to God instead of to man.

I never said anything about a god, but here you go:

God as a religious construct is a creation of man that serves the same purpose I posted for good and evil.

If such a being as a god does exist, you're not going to learn about him through the social control mechanisms of organized religion.

I think morality comes from what perpetuates survival and mutual safety within a certain culture. So a lot of it could be universal (like walking down the street without getting attacked) while some could be cultural (like stoning gays to protect children from deviancy)

You're right! That was one of the great discoveries of liberalism: obedience is not enough. But here's the thing we've forgotten: you need obedience to start. It's great to revivify the tradition with new insight and new creation, but you only have the experience to constructively do that after a long time obediently practicing the faith.

>you need obedience to start
I fundamentally don't agree. You should immediately be skeptical when someone tells you to just obey.

And yet the Nazis were obsessed with religious iconography. And yet the crusades and inquisitions. Learn your history. Religion has been either responsible, inspiration, or excuse for many of history's greatest atrocities.

Do you think that schools would be very productive if they taught children to immediately be completely skeptical of everything the teacher says, and to contradict her at every opportunity? Or do you think there's some value in assuming she's telling the truth for the most part and get on with the learning?

>they are fairy tales people tell themselves so they can feel like their existence has significance

Is exactly what you said, so yea it sounds like you were referring to god, and you responded with pretty much the same thing.
>god is a religious construct
>not going to learn about him...through organized religion
Is exactly what I said. “God” doesn’t necessarily mean good/evil unless you’re looking at it through a lense of organized religion. It could be literally anything, an infinite number of possibilities but only one of those is “it doesn’t exist”

Why don't animals have a Bible? Why do they live by the laws of the universe? Is this ok with "god"?

GOD IS REAL BECAUSE HE GAVE ME A QT GF AFTER HOURS OF PRAY HE IS REAL!!!!

Nowhere in the New Testament is there any teaching about Holy War. Jesus never instructed his followers to spread the gospel by the sword.

2004
I still do not like the Father.
But Christ makes me like the son.
The holy ghost can just fuck off.

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I think schools should teach critical thinking skills, yes. As long as you aren't disrupting the classroom, questioning the teacher can actually be a great learning experience. In any case, students can actually go out and verify what their teachers are teaching. We can't verify religion.

What do you mean, verify like scientifically verify? These stories were written millennia before the scientific method was invented, does that mean they're worthless or they have nothing to teach us?

If god is energy or yin/yang then they live by those same laws, they just don’t have consciousness or self awareness to question it.

>verify like scientifically verify?
Sure, or at the very least check that what the teacher is teaching matches up with academic consensus.
>does that mean they're worthless
No. No story is worthless, but there's a big difference between something not being worthless and teaching it as though it's fact.
>or they have nothing to teach us?
This gets into more metaphorical stuff. Do stories really teach us, or do we teach ourselves using the stories?

Curing muscular dystrophy:

Look at why muscles deteriorating. Try exorcise, steroids, take patient out to pleasant and strange settings, socialise without sympathy, at least not stiffling sympathy. Try to get them interested in things, things they have to be fit for. Reward them for doing physical things. Sexual attention when trying. Affection, have carer/lover hold her while other women bake cakes, holding her arms as she mixes things. Something soldierly for a guy. Woman can enjoy an exception of a guy being in girls things. Cares for her enough wont spread secrets, willing to die with her if she goes. Try anything that might work, possibly using willing man as experimentation, women are much better at experimenting, building off solid foundations, men are better at being them, or not, but men have more empathy, love may change that. Women may see themselves as the one who usually suffers and is prepared to pay that price for love. Men volunteering may rightfully buy acceptance, not used to suffering and loss of freedom, not enjoying it except in service of woman, love. A kind of treason in falling instead of fighting toward love. Not going forward. Anything to save the girl is tollerable. Both may not be made so they can sustain eachother exclusively from themselves but damn all that to keep girl alive. Help her grow in the way she wants to and up to men to cut away what isn't right or carres it into supportive, flattering structure.

Mechanical substitutes for vital organs could be replaced if deterioration is worrying there. Woman may know better.

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More experimentation, wrong, unless always the man who was experimented on. Man always found a way for it to be him instead. Then scars to show he cared. Payment to woman for existing, which is his pleasure, reason for existing. She helped him be something, helped him be a man, helped him suit her, be her pleasure, primary pleasure or icing on the cake. Something to rely upon, to let her be anything and return her or make her into something more beautiful. Something universally loved so not hurt, only by him, him shaped by her, her shaped by him, both shaped by themselves and both by eachother... maybe less by eachother.

Anyway, why may be most of the key. Why are muscles deteriorating. External influences could be the first thing to address, move them, cut them off from people who reward her deterioration with care.

Gain care from helper/lover as she tries. As he tries. Accentuate the effort in him helping her and her helping him. Make both able to try better. But return her to able form priority for both. Keep her alive even at the expense of him. She can find more entertaining lovers perhaps, who see her as more than something to help or enjoy being treated as the hero for being there as she deteriorates.

Look to existing cures, highly possible they aren't substanciated, aren't put into action because they make a lot of cure ascertaining procedure unneeded. Seem a fluke, bullshit, but are practical and possible. Maybe combined with what else is done or can be done can acheive victory.

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Sexual attention may help with recovery, best pain relief, eg lick her pussy all day, every day. Something to live for. Choose whoever she wishes or enjoy whoever comes first. Accompanied by the best movies, music etc. Spoil her in the sentimental sense. Sex if she wants it, help her lover be a better lover. Able to fuck her longer, have her attention, while other things go on she can focused on being fucked. Enjoy tormenting lovers and men there to help by denying them, accepting lesser pleasures, picking through the variety of them, demanding the men be more appealing and have them taste the same, or at least their cum. Different men eat the different things she likes most and feed her cum to it's taste. Ask her if she can taste it in her vagina.

Anything she wants to do have men or her lover augment it, making it wasy for her to move her arms, legs, head. Dance. Anything her will decides. Any action even if it's a waste of energy. Be delighted she wants to do more, tries to.

Jealous women can try harder to cure her, to return attention to themselves. Receive similar treatment without the deteriorated body. Lover and cured patient seeing attention is upon where it's needed. Rewarding who helps with similar treatment in the times when the patient wants something else instead or a lesser version of it, wants to watch movies instead of have sex.

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Show her some videogames where cute characters collect things and see child friendly renditions of landscapes to platform through. Enjoy her side of logic as her man explores more adult places and is stumped because of his inability to do the wrong thing, or the smart thing, or the non sexual thing. Or the non loser thing. The non selfish thing. The wrong thing. Help him take a chance or play it safe, entertain the possability things are/aren't as they seem. Get him bored of playing with himself. Take credit for solving everything from him, enjoy him humbled and frusterated so he has to try you, again, or try something else she can't win in. And lose because that doesn't impress her and causes more problems, and is inconsiderate.

Make her feel "cool" as she recovers, trying on newly made clothes to suit her recovery and entitlement as a sexual/creative incentive for men... a redirector of attention to them, injury not required, but attention more often and to where it's needed, or enticed to with assets, actions and suppositions. Penis worshiping women with vagina worshipping men. Just having fun playing with eachother. Men fools, but the women the one's smiling. Wanting to fuck eachother and please eachother, problems made into enhancements as they arrive, not nescessarily sought out, but a woman's curiosity could find them to test their man/men. Women feeling left out are a problem demanding men too. As women help similar to cheer them up, help them try harder.

Whenever I do something right I find opposition make me able to more.

Toooo yong

about 3 years ago i got concrete proof God exists
i already sort of knew or had a feeling but was defintely agnostic before that moment
now there is absolute proof that God exists for me
not worth posting it here because no one will believe me anyway, and it was a personal experience, so...

"They" referred to "good and evil" in the previous sentence. You tie the concept of good and evil to god. While such morality can exist outside of religion, it does also effectively transfer in the way you describe. This is because organized religion developed as an extension of the social contracts that established shared worldviews as humans organized in tribes.

The way I see it, even if you don't believe, are you really going to be stupid enough to take the risk of eternal torture and or anguish just to make a point? Not me buddy lol

try me

I don't want to debate you I just would like your perspective

At 14 years of age. I was raised Catholic, 8 years of catholic grade school. I started to seriously doubt the credibility of god's existence at 12. I slowly began to realize that nothing ever really happened. No prayers were answered, no voice of god, no miracles minor or otherwise, nothing even remotely supernatural ever occurred. I realized life was no different with or without religion so I bailed and never looked back.

Submission is key

What pushed you back to religion after this phase?

I agree. And yet, here we are. So much for guidance.

I wouldn't say the atheist's wager had a huge influence on me or anything, but it's an interesting thought experiment and it gives a shallow stupid reason for someone to believe even if they wouldn't otherwise
It's not the best tool but it's somewhat amusing

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I think God exists on a personal level. If it helps you being a better person to read the bible or follow the teachings of a religion then more power to you. There are a lot of Christian's out there that are evil people that want to use God as a means of money (kind of like that pastor that used all the church donos to buy a private jet) but there are also those that just spread the word out of a love for one another. Honestly everyone can form their own opinion on if God exists or not, but the main part is to treat other with respect. God or no God we're still all humans

>but there are times when strange things happen
like when spooky skeletons dance

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I'll direct your attention to the Book of Job. The God of Abraham is all about tormenting his followers

That interviewer is a fucking retard...obviously a jesus freak

I don't get the rational connection between Job and the atheist's wager (also I posted the wrong image whoops, comes up first on google)

Is the conclusion that if you believe you should expect to be tormented and God punishes you for believing? Maybe so but you are promised eternal life and good shit when you die so you'd suffer while you were alive only (or mostly) I guess

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I was responding to the image, but in respect to your follow-up, that is a line of belief. C. S. Lewis had much to say on the role of pain and suffering in faith. Then, of course, you get the crazies like St. Augustine, who thought it was his job to administer corporeal punishment on himself for the mere sin of existence (a bit of an exaggeration, but not really).

yeah there's scriptural support for this too, Jesus suffered, Paul suffered, Paul in jail had a lot to say about "sharing in Christ's burden" and generally being persecuted and ridiculed for your faith gets you a better reward in heaven or something (for persisting in faith of course, you get nothing if you recant your faith)

I don't think it's a flat reward for all suffering, or suffering for suffering's sake, I think you have to be persecuted for faith for it to "work"

There's definitely passages to support how suffering is holy in certain circumstances

It's pretty much the point of the Beatitudes. Faith isn't faith unless that faith is tested.