Mini split, or portable AC?

Split.
Carrier, voltas or any brand from japan are good.

No-no-no, only mystery brand only hardcore.

mini-split is like central air. Portable A/c is nigger tier AC. If you're paying for electricity, Minisplit is the way to go.

Mini split, those inverter really save a lot of money.

The other is fine for a really small room, but are too noisy.

But what about on-off models?
What about heat pump mode? Are they any good at 0C?

on-off models? wtf are you talking about.

>on-off models? wtf are you talking about.
Non-inverter.

why would you do that? Those are obviously far less efficient. The inverter models have a lot more capacity and they can do heating as well. They're bomb.

Or you could go the lazy route and get a window ac/heatpump unit. Can only recommend this shit if you rarely use it.

>why would you do that?
Well, they are cheaper.
>Those are obviously far less efficient.
That is debatable. Cheap on-off AC claims to have COP (watts of cooling / watts consumed) of 3,2. Cheap inverter has COP of *drum-rolls* 3,2. Expensive (extra $800) inverter has COP of 3,8-4+.
After googling, I realized that cheap inverters use same metering device as on-offs, the capillary tube, while expensive inverters use electronic expansion valve. Which made me think, that cheap inverter has no benefits over on-off (besides more precise temperature and lower start currents), while extra $800 will never pay for themselves.
>The inverter models have a lot more capacity and they can do heating as well. They're bomb.
Capacity is the same. 9000 BTU is 9000 BTU. COP, as I said before, may vary quite a bit.
On-off can do heating as well, except they do it only if it is hotter than -7 C outside, while expensive inverter will keep working in -20 C.
And I don't really know. Negative temperatures are rather rare in my shithole. So I don't know if expensive inverter will make sense.
>Or you could go the lazy route and get a window ac/heatpump unit. Can only recommend this shit if you rarely use it.
I'm cheap, not lazy. Window units won't fit windows. Mobile units are apparently shit

.

If you're using this for heating and cooling, get the inverter model. $800 is nothing for something if you're going to have it for 5+ years. People spend more money than that on a disposable phone.

The BTU ratings are at specific temperatures and load factors and aren't really comparable. I did a lot of reading on BTU output of the inverter models and they're really quite superior. Anything that will work well when it's below freezing is a model you should be able to rely on when it's cold outside.

Who pays for the electricity in your apartment?

You’re going to need a separate circuit...

Get central air.

less efficient and also he's in an apartment.

>Who pays for the electricity in your apartment?
Well, it is my own house, and I pay for electricity.
Problem is, it would take more than 10 years to recover those extra $800, while simple on-off will recover its cost as heater within first 5 years (if it would give COP of 3+ at 0C, which is unknown, because they seem to measure COP and heat capacity at 7C outside).
>The BTU ratings are at specific temperatures and load factors and aren't really comparable. I did a lot of reading on BTU output of the inverter models and they're really quite superior. Anything that will work well when it's below freezing is a model you should be able to rely on when it's cold outside.
How can I google this?
At this point I know that at standard conditions (they seem to measure it at 35C outside), 9000BTU inverter will give same amount of cooling as 9000BTU on off, because 9000BTU=9000BTU.
Nah, 9000 BTU unit (even on-off) consumes only 4,5 A max, why bother? I have RCD on all circuits, so whatever.
Also it is common practice there to do janky setups like this.
I can't have central air, because I don't want it, and I live in Europe where such thing doesn't exist (expensive = doesn't exist).

pickhvac.com/ductless/best-brands/#Best_Cold_Climate_Mini_Split_Heat_Pumps

#1 – Gree Sapphire:

Apparently this one is the most efficient by far. Didn't know about this one so it must be new. HSPF of 15 is the highest I've ever seen.

Well, if I lived in frozen shithole, those $800 would probably pay for itself.
But here 0C is rare and considered super cold. And on-off AC from Gree is like $400 for 9k BTU, not fucking $1200.

Shit. I'm also afraid of inverters, because I had like 2 LG inverter fridges, and both died like withing first three months. Then I got chinsiest cheapest fridge (on-off), and it is still working, and apparently consumes less power...

The LG refrigerators worked differently than these.

Also, why are you worried about a few hundred dollars difference when the most of the money you'll spend is on operating the damn thing? you're not a contractor trying to eek out a profit, you're a homeowner. Don't cheap out on something if it costs more initially.

COP is 4.47 vs. 3.5 for the crap you're talking about.

It really depends on how you heat/cool your stuff for what percent of the year. If you used your unit for less than 30 hours a year, I'd recommend the cheaper stuff, but some people run their stuff for months at a time. At that point, makes more sense to get the most efficient stuff on the market.

Where do you live

+33C in the summer, -2C in the winter (absolute max)
+25C in the summer, +2C in the winter (usual)
>The LG refrigerators worked differently than these.
Doesn't matter, I'm afraid of VFDs now.
>Also, why are you worried about a few hundred dollars difference when the most of the money you'll spend is on operating the damn thing?
Because I can get three cheaper ACs for price of one more expensive one.
Also I'm going to install shit myself, so I really don't want expensive unit, because if shit breaks down, I won't have warranty. With cheap one, I'd just buy another one.
>COP is 4.47 vs. 3.5 for the crap you're talking about.
>3.5
Lol. Why the fuck I was thinking COP of on-off is 3.2...
Anyway, COP of 4.47 is impressive.
>It really depends on how you heat/cool your stuff for what percent of the year. If you used your unit for less than 30 hours a year, I'd recommend the cheaper stuff, but some people run their stuff for months at a time. At that point, makes more sense to get the most efficient stuff on the market.
No, way more than 30 hours/year. More like half a year.

Idk now. Lemme calculate shit again with new COP

Hm, doesn't make sense with my electricity.
I guess on-off is the way to go.

Still, how efficient shit would be at 0C in heat pump mode? COP of 2? COP of 3?

Move to a civilized country.

Mini split... not even comparable. Portable ACs are horribly inefficient.

mini splits look cool.. should be the next best thing to central ac. Portable ac units are horrible, namely the single exhaust port type. It sucks your cool air to blow out and that causes a negative pressure to suck in any outside air from any cracks.

No, I like lack of any regulation, while being considered white.
Guns. Too bad we can't have guns here.

What are you cooling? The mini split is a much more involved installation.

The LG refrigerators failed due to a mechanical/wear/lubrication issue with the compressors. If you're paranoid about failures, just read up on the company's rep on their units. I work on appliances and HVAC stuff as a hobby, it's useful to do some research on whatever your buying. Writing off VFD is stupid because all that means is it's computer controlled compressor. The electronics didn't fail, it was the actual compressor itself, the part that physically compresses the vapor. The linear compressors in the LG refrigerators basically ran 24/7 in order to efficiently cool the refrigerators at lower pressure. Problem is, running something that long can only work if you have excellent tolerances and good build quality.

You don't plan on running your A/C unit 24/7 right? If you do, then it wouldn't matter if the unit died in 4 years because the amount of money saved would pay for the unit several times.

Buying the cheapest one is usually just deferring costs. It's like buying used tires. Unless you plan on waiting for the tires to dryrot before you wear down the tread, it's usually more economical to get the tires that have the longest tread life and are brand new. So I buy a mix of new and used tires, depending on what purpose the vehicle will have and how much I expect to drive it.

how much do you pay for electricity?

You really need to post models of units you're looking at. It's all speculation at this point.

My room.
>The LG refrigerators failed due to a mechanical/wear/lubrication issue with the compressors.
Well, this lubricant issue could have been caused by inverter, since it would work on low RPM with no oil.
>Writing off VFD is stupid because all that means is it's computer controlled compressor.
Why does fridge need VFD in first place? I didn't notice any difference in power consumption between LG (when it worked) and chink fridge at all.
>You don't plan on running your A/C unit 24/7 right?
Um... Depends. I would not run it in summer or autumn 100%.
>If you do, then it wouldn't matter if the unit died in 4 years because the amount of money saved would pay for the unit several times.
I have doubts.
$0.15/kW-h.
150 kW-h during summer. (1 month)
250 kW-h during winter (1 month).
100 kW-h on heat.
If COP is 3.0, I would save 66 kW-h every month, or $10. It would take 40 month (or three and third years) to pay for AC.
So even less than 5 years I calculated before, huh.
If COP is 4.0, I would save 75 kW-h every month, or $11.25. It would take 106 month to pay for AC (expensive one), or 8 years.
I will post. But keep in mind that all cheap AC are basically similar trash.

A room? Use the portable, get a 14,000 btu one, you have a window you can put the duct in, right? Fuck a mini split to cool a room, unless it's a room you're growing pot in. Otherwise it's not worth the time and money involved.

Where did you get these numbers? How did you come to the determination that you would only use 250KWH of energy for heat in the winter? I ask because I live in california, climate is quite mild in the east bay and with a single space heater in a bedroom, I easily can use 600KWH in one month. That's with an outdoor avg temp of 48F and heating room to about 62F.

I want to see how you came up with your energy consumption numbers.

If he is using this for years to come and lives in this home, portable ac is garbage and waste of money both in purchasing and in cost to operate.

Cheap shitty ON-OFF ACs:
>TCL 9k BTU; heating 2800W/770W (3.6); cooling 2640W/820W (3.2); $330
>Midea 9k BTU; heating 2780W/770W (3.6); cooling 2640W/820W (3.2); $380
>Gree 9k BTU; heating 2650W/734W (3.6); cooling 2550W/800W (3.2); $380
Cheap shitty inverters
>TCL 9k BTU; heating 2800W/760W (3.6); cooling 2640W/820W (3.2); $400
>Midea 9k BTU; heating 2930W/810 (3.6); cooling 2640W/820W (3.2); $420
Expensive inverter
>I can't find it. I believe it was LG, but all appear to have COP of 3.6, which means it falls under shitty inverter.
Portable AC is kinda stupid, since it would be unused entire year but two hot days. While split has potential to work as heater in winter.
>How did you come to the determination that you would only use 250KWH of energy for heat in the winter?
Real consumption.
>I ask because I live in california, climate is quite mild in the east bay and with a single space heater in a bedroom, I easily can use 600KWH in one month. That's with an outdoor avg temp of 48F and heating room to about 62F.
Tiny poorfag house, having warm clothing, not being at home for like 8 hours. Good thermal insulation. I basically run oil heater for 3 hours in the morning (1500W, cycles at 500W on avg), and 4 hours in the evening.

What I really don't understand, what the fuck consumes 200W. I measured fridge - it is less than 30W on average. I can't figure that out.

You all say it's easy just hookup to socket ECT. Electrical might be but what about the lines. You need that flare tool, flex to cover the suction so not condensing. Drain line. Line hide to make it not look like shit. Not to big of a deal but that copper is going to be a pain if you don't know what your doing. It's doable man just YouTube vids. I'll agree tho. Minis are badass

If you're in a tiny poor fag house, does that means you're only heating one room or multiple rooms? I live in a large house so heating the whole house is stupid.

You have a watt measuring device? Do you have electric utility bill to compare with? Do you have 12 months of electricity usage calculated?

My issue with your numbers is that they're very imprecise and unscientific. Using stats like (1500w 500w avg) is nonsense unless you have a device that actually logs total energy consumption on an hourly basis, for days at a time.

I have a smart meter on my home so i can see pretty easily what my hourly energy consumption rate is, standby consumption when I'm not home, etc. It's helpful because I can tell when the space heater is being used and how much energy it's costing on average.

If you're relying on a kill-a-watt meter to figure out consumption, you need to run that for like weeks at a time for devices that are subject to energy consumption changes depending on weather. Stuff like refrigerators and heaters will use less or more depending on the season so you'd need more data than just a week's worth of logging.

>You need that flare tool
I have one, for brake lines. It has SAE 45 degree die, which would work with AC.
> flex to cover the suction so not condensing
Line set they provide already has thermal insulation. Also you would need for liquid line too, since it should be cold too.
>Drain line
Simplest of all. Electrical conduit should fit.
>Line hide to make it not look like shit.
Cable channel. UV-resistant one.
What is really important is pipe bender and vacuum pump. I have pipe bender, but I kinda don't want to buy vacuum pump. Can I somehow nigger rig an AC without vacuum pump, because I might not find it?
>If you're in a tiny poor fag house, does that means you're only heating one room or multiple rooms? I live in a large house so heating the whole house is stupid.
I'm heating one room. But technically, 9000 BTU would be enough for two rooms.
>You have a watt measuring device?
Kill-a-watt
> Do you have electric utility bill to compare with? Do you have 12 months of electricity usage calculated?
Yep, I have a nice graphs in bil. 4 month are 250 kW-h (more-less), other 8 are 150 kW-h (more-less).
Also I have gas water heater, if it matters and gas stove.
> Using stats like (1500w 500w avg) is nonsense unless you have a device that actually logs total energy consumption on an hourly basis, for days at a time.
On fridge I used kill-a-watt, it gave me 25-35W on average.
On heater, I just used a stopwatch. Knowing on and off time, you can easily calculate duty cycle and power. It is restive load, so you can use this method.
>I have a smart meter
I have analog meter, that should be replaced ideally.
> you need to run that for like weeks at a time for devices that are subject to energy consumption changes depending on weather
Weather doesn't change much.

>stopwatch. Knowing on and off time, you can easily calculate duty cycle and power. It is restive load, so you can use this method.
>>I have a smart meter
>I have analog meter, tha
That's what I figured, Your way of measuring is way to imprecise.

You can't just use a stopwatch, measure on and off time, figure out duty cycle etc. to figure out consumption. The reason for this is because outside temperature determines this duty cycle. The only accurate way to measure that space heater consumption is to have it plugged into the kill-a-watt device for a month during the coldest part of winter and use the heater normally. You're likely grossly underestimating usage.

Do you want to heat your entire house? I know you're talking about heating your one bedroom, but if it's a tiny house, why not get a quote for a multi-split system to heat the entire building? Probably have no more than 3 rooms or so that need heaters.

From Nov- Apr, how much did you spend on electricity? What was your highest bill in those months?

Again, I'm trying to understand this. your total electric bill for the month was $37.50 USD? 250KWH consumption? Your electric company billed you for a max total of 250KWH in the coldest part of winter?

I don't want your funny energy consumption calculation, just absolute total energy consumption you were charged by the energy company.

>Do you want to heat your entire house?
Idk.
>I know you're talking about heating your one bedroom, but if it's a tiny house, why not get a quote for a multi-split system to heat the entire building?
It would be cheaper to get three shitty units. Idk why, to be honest.
>Probably have no more than 3 rooms or so that need heaters
3 rooms. Two on second floor, and one bigger on first.
Kitchen and toilet don't need any heating, because you shit faster when it is freezing cold, and kitchen has gas stove which is a pretty good heater.
>From Nov- Apr, how much did you spend on electricity?
11; 228
12; 240
01; 290 (it was really cold, and I was at home entire two weeks)
02; 224
03; 205
04; 140
It is hard to say how much money, because I pay every three month, and winter gets separated.

Portable if you only use for few hours. Renting and don’t mind the noise.

Split if you own the home or apt. A good investment for the long run as it won’t cost you a lot in terms of electricity bill.

Need to do plumping for copper tubes into the drywall, electrical splices & mounting the condenser unit.

If you pay every 3 months, you should be able to figure out which period the 3 months covers.
I'm assuming there is a 3 month period where your bill is the highest. Take that number, divide by 3.

You need to get a DIY one, otherwise you need a vacuum pump, filling gauges, scale, refrigerant (either expensive as fuck or won't sell you one if not certified for it)... That shit costs almost as much as the entire mini Split kit, not worth buying unless you plan to do HVAC install for profit.
Look around, they make DIY install versions, literally plug and play.

They don't have a circuit board full of semiconductor parts in them. Very hard to kill by overvoltage or moisture.

They actually do still have control boards. Even the most basic units have control boards, they're just less advanced control boards.

Your obsession over simplicity is misplaced. It's not how simple the device is made that matters, what matters is how reliable it is, how expensive it is to operate and how difficult it is to install.

You may not have the ability/tools/etc do use one of these professionally installed ones anyway and may have to use a DIY install one as suggested by another person on here, making this discussion sort of moot anyway.

A multi-zone minisplit would add value to the house and one of the reasons you would go with one is because it requires only one condenser. Having 3 condensers spread around the property is problematic not only from an install perspective but electrical and efficiency perspective.

You may want to plan this out a bit better and figure out the benefits of different types.

Frankly I'd get a multi-zone mini-split that's the most efficient on the market and highest rated for warranty, etc. If something pays for itself in 10 years, that's a 7.2% interest rate. Better than most safe investments. Anything better than that is really good.

Just remember rule of 72.

Buy a window unit? Easy to install, cheap, work great.

The work required for a mini split install is not far off from running central air and cheap units still cost well over 1k.

Portable ACs suck because the hx is still inside the room you are trying to cool.