RON PAUL Yea Forums

As though those people ever pay the bulk of funding silly ideas like this. It comes straight from the middle-class. When has it ever not?
Do you want to someday join the middle-class, or just have it eliminated in favor of a solid line between wealthy and poor?

25, general manager of a small hotel, the 100k will come in time. Greed is not the way to get there....

It's not meant to replace work entirely dumbass. It's meant to give people a little bit of breathing room so they can pay for a car repair, find a better job, or start the business they've been thinking about for a while.

of course I do but I'm a broke neet with very detached forward-looking views on economy and way of life that might not readily reflect the practical realities of the current world or what a transitional state will look like, so while I've been a believer in the social market economy and a literal planet-wide UBI I'm not sure this "$1000 a month" thing is much more than a selling point for the next popularity contest or that we have enough people framing these problems in the long term to support such an idea

This is actually the real reason. At least you're being honest with yourself. The economic growth it would create would be incredible though. Is having wealth of 10 compared to your neighbor's 7 really better than having wealth of 100 compared to your neighbor's 90 though?

You're over estimating most people.

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How do you think a worldwide UBI (or a more livable UBI in the US) is going to happen? One day God's going to decide to snap his fingers and it'll magically be so?

They will buy TVs and things they do not need.

>because i dont want to be taxed an extra 2000$
exactly. anything that you get is first taken from someone else, then it's washed through government who takes their cut, then anyone else that supports the party in charge, and they take their cut, them maybe the deadbeats get a peice of it, which they didn't in any way earn. oh, that's a great system. how long do you think people are going to keep working just to have it taken away. fucking idiots

alllll malt liquor baby!

well I don't have a good head for that, it's the transition I don't have a grasp on like a lot of other starry-eyed optimists on the matter, but to be as grounded as possible I think it has to start with people like yang trying and likely failing quite a few different times and in a few different contexts or with different versions of the idea before it will take hold on even a single state/nation's level

wealth will probably have to be redefined one way or the other along the way

No, I'm not in either of the welfare classes.
This is why I do not support the expansion of either.

>not realizing that a large portion of people already receive government "benefits"

What is being proposed here is extending this to everyone (you can't get both UBI and existing assistance) with no requirements other than being a US citizen over $18.

>get rid of perversely broken-incentives of means-tested welfare
>get rid of most of the bureaucracy around administering welfare
>puts everyone on a level playing field

Isn’t he planning on ending other programs and shit so maybe it won’t be +2k more like +500 or something idk just saying

I mean... if I socked away hundreds of hours of my life in savings back when I only needed 10 wealth to survive, I'm gonna be a little bit pissed that the less-responsible people are now living just as comfortably while the time-shift value of my life&labor has been discounted to less than 10% of what it cost me due to the hyperinflation.

Tax robot labor.

you're very simple minded

Literally no idea what your first point means

You don't need to spend trillions on this crap plan to cut out admin expenses

Money doesn't make a level playing field. Some people are just stupid
You can't fix stupid.

You presume that existing welfare programs would be abolished. That is a mistake. The bureaucracy only ever expands.

The first point is about how currently administered welfare programs incentivize people to NOT work. Since you get less welfare if you make more money. It's absolutely nuts!

This a fair point, but maybe shortsighted. Think about how much better our lives are now compared to people who lived when America was founded. Even elites of that time could not dream to have some of the luxuries that a peasant of today does. A hand-held magic tablet that can show me videos of beautiful women doing degrading sex acts whenever I want?

Why would there be inflation? They're not printing money, just shifting it from corporations and the mega wealthy to ordinary people.

It goes like this:
Neither of the welfare classes were net contributors to the economy. The upper class did not spend money as quickly as the design of the economy funneled it back to them. The lower class had no money of their own to spend.

The tax-paying class, the middle class, was the sweet spot. People engaged in productive wealth-creating labor, reaping the benefits of that labor and passing it along to better enjoy their leisure and luxury. But the middle class has become risk averse, and robbing their savings via inflation isn't keeping up with the need for "sustainable growth".

Solution? Rob them via taxes, too.

He doesn't mean inflation, but rather some measure of relative wealth.

The government ran out of tax dollars in March this year. They are projected to hit their authorized annual debt ceiling in September. They will have another brief shutdown and then sink more of future generations' lives into debt slavery to pay their own salaries.

What do you think a VAT effectively is in a more and more automated economy?

Are you proposing that wouldn't have been possible under a free market system?

Yeah, and? There's always enough money for another aircraft carrier or billionaire tax cut. So if we're going to spend ourselves to death, spread that wealth around a bit before it all goes tits up.

Then he's an idiot.

VAT as implemented in EU ends up substantially passed-along down the chain until it reaches the end user. This doesn't work for financing UBI, as it's just a self-licking ice cream cone.

How about we shrink the upper welfare class, rather than expanding the lower welfare class?

Why not both? I make a pretty good living. Enough that my wife can stay home and take care of the kids. An extra 2k per month would be a game changer for middle class families like mine.

We could take a proper vacation. Buy a newer car. Save a little more for retirement. Actually pay our medical bills.

There is real danger to capitalism as it exist today due to automation creating an economy in which large swaths of the population find themselves suddenly unemployable. Political unrest is bad, potentially catastrophic, for business. UBI is an attempt to save capitalism, retaining some merit-based aspects of it while ensuring political stability.

>Vacation
>New car

So just blowing your money?

Oh I want it.

My problem isn't with the idea of Basic income it's a problem with our society and how basic income will function and it's consequences and the consequences of electing those running on the platform of basic income.

Pic related, White civilization can't support the burden of brown hordes, my quality of life might go up briefly over a couple of years but america would immediately enter a civil conflict and ultimately be in the position that venezuela is currently in within about 4-8 years of implementing universal healthcare, Basic income and other leftist spending initiatives along with the exacerbation of all those costs by the assault on the white american majority by way of race replacement and miscegenation.

A new automation revolution is coming and Basic income is likely the only solution but even with that scenario the racial divide in our country and the immigration rate in america will cause the system to implode.

If you are white and want a future in america with it's current borders we need to be cunning and work towards ejecting all of the jews whom are largely traitors to america's needs, the merely want idiot slaves whom they can cull as soon as the gain dominion and automation is in full swing, We must eject all african heritage people's to africa to save any chance at america being economically or technologically relevant in the coming age and because they commit most of the crime and the great majority of violent crime, next deporting hispanics from south of the border must be done ASAP because their drain on is lower per individual but there are about 60 million more of them than we need; so deporting the 22-25M illegals is a priority. banning immigration via our southern border is the next key step. and removing all traces of islam is key to reducing government expenditures on counter terrorism and sex trafficking it will grant us more privacy and liberty to be rid of Islam.

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Let's just cut out the middle man and I'll keep my money instead of having it taken and given back to me.

Debate the issue fine... Think about this

The US became the most powerfull nation in the history of mankind without UBI or any social programs. Hell firedepartments were not even a public service for a long time.

So UBI is a new untested theory that they think will work. Same thing with giving hormones to kids because they think they are transgender. its all unproven. So now lets test this on on one of the most diverse populations and largest GDP on the planet. Hope it works.

Thats my conern with this points. It may be a good idea with good intention, and it could destroy the nation and the economy.

The US economic system has changed drastically several times in its history and we have had to make legislative adjustments every time. For example industrialization led to the labor movement which led to things like the 40 hour work week, Labor day, collective bargaining being a thing, etc. Here is Elon Musk on UBI being inevitable:

youtube.com/watch?v=e6HPdNBicM8

Yang's whole point is that we should do it now instead of having political instability lead to a collapse of the whole capitalist system.

A true UBI is something we absolutely should have - in alternative to all the bullshit Marxian welfare we already do. Yangs 'freedom dividend' is not any kind of true UBI, it is just another marxian welfare, but this time aimed specifically at the white middle class which is starting to rouse from their slumber. It is all about holding back the rising tide of white rage until they can significantly advance disarmament.

Surprises me how so little people aren't aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund

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That's revenue from the state leasing oil fields. What do if your state has no oil?

Tax productivity gains from automation and AI.

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