Reminder: socialism has never succeeded in any country in the entire history of mankind. Not once

I've been working for everything I have for over 15 years. Content with providing for myself, paying a little taxes. Enough to pay my bills, save, and buy some bullshit "wants" every so often. If socialism is ever implemented, I'm immediately quitting my job and doing fuck all and the government can just give me everything I need. So will everyone else. Production will halt, the economy will collapse. The government will have to force people to work. That's called communism. The people will have to revolt. There will be an anarchy period. Eventually people will establish a form of government to stop the anarchy. Capitalism will develop. And were back where we were 50 years ago.

Source

Because not everyone is getting rich, capitalism doesn't work? Whatever you say, sport.

I've got no clue, I don't care much for news in foreign places, but uh
Isn't cuba socialist with some of the best rates for literacy and death at birth?

>enact socialist policies
>blame capitalism when they fail
>vote for me I'll deal with those nasty fatcats
This strategy has worked for far longer than it deserves to.

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Capitalism, specifically American capitalism, is why the % of starving people on the planet is less than ever before.

True "Socialism" has been tried, Marxism or true communism has not, while I may not be a political person I know for a fact that marx wanted what is essentially an anarchist utopia

stale bait

>seething

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History has shown that socialist movements are inevitably subverted by outside reactionary forces or corrupt leaders. True socialism will likely never actually be tried in reality.

Bring back unions and MAYBE you could have a point. Until then, fuck yes we absolutely can blame capitalism. How do you profit saving the planet and helping people?
>You don't

>True "Socialism" has been tried,
Where and when?

It incentivizes laziness.

Hasn't there only ever been a single socialist country in all of humanities history? Faggot

And here is your typical
>America was socialist at it's greatest
response

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Source?

Unions are still here. Workers themselves are disillusioned by the rusted-on corruption.

The rich and greedy “rulers” fuck it up everytime. Or the outsiders take advantage and everyone says fuck it.

>How do you profit saving the planet and helping people?
You don't so you guilt trip people with feelgood bullshit about how banning plastic straws will stop global warming then you lobby for plastic straws to be banned then charge 10x as much for paper.

Shownus your dick, OP

Norway doesn't have niggers.

Friendly reminder that the left is not trying to stop being capitalist, they just want to make more socialist policies. Similar to the nordic countries

reminder: top-down economics have not succeeded in any country in the entire history of the world. not once. we know why... because it's a fucking lie and just the rich making themselves richer, and sheeple like swallow this shit.

Translation: "we just call ourselves socialist, we don't mean it"
>actual liberal logic

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>still here
Yeah they are there with no balls.
Most states passed laws that allow employees to be fired for striking. Some even for just organizing.
What the fuck is a union going to do without using it's labor as it's only weapon?

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Unions are not here, there are very few unions in america. I've been at 2 jobs where talking about a union was grounds for termination.

Unions only work when they're not ran by kikes.
Otherwise they just soak up gibs and get on people's asses for doing to well.

I am not sure what you're on about, maybe just trolling, but a lot of socialist policies are extremely popular. It doesn't make any sense why other countries can have such programs and the US can't when the US is allegedly the strongest economy in the world

This cunt has already chased off thousands of Amazon jobs from her home town. She'll also get someone killed from her bullshit.

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i said top-down economics, not capitalism. op is the idiot with the false dichotomy -- i'm talking "trickle down" vs. supporting the working class that are the engine that keeps this country running.

It's a welfare state, and an overly generous one at that. Only capitalist economies can afford welfare.

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never seen this copy pasta before...

Amazon, that doesn't pay any taxes and their workers are striking on their biggest sales day today, that amazon?

Hey, OP, those "little bit of taxes" go to pay for roads and other infrastructure, but I bet you don't consider that socialism. And your "little bit of taxes" also go to pay for Medicare and Medicaid, one or both of which you will likely use if you are poor or when you get old, as well as to Social Security, which I am sure you will bitch about not being enough when you start collecting your social entitlement checks. You ignorant, uneducated, dumbass faggot.

Here we go again.

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Here comes the example of a country where socialism works... wait for it....

America

Didn’t have to look too far for the answer.

And the only Nobel Prize winner from the rust belt was Jimmy Carter.

You go live on your communal soy farm, then.

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what's wrong with free education and free healthcare? we can't beat other countries if our kids aren't smarter -- why shouldn't we invest in keeping america #1? why shouldn't we invest in having our population healthy and not incurring the expense of caring for sick people with no insurance? that's the problem with righties these days -- they have swallowed the bullshit that if we give the rich more money they will reinvest it in the country instead of buying another italian yacht.

that wasn't true socialism

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And where did you hear that? Your boomer parents that reaped the benefits of the Unions only to ultimately destroy them for Reagan? bunch of tards

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Delete this!
My boomer eyes can't handle these truth quads

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trump supported universal healthcare originally. as for free education i spent like 15K on community college and paid it off in a year. it wasn't difficult. also if some blue collar guy decides to skip on going to college and just go directly into the workforce, he shouldn't have to pay taxes for other people to go.

But medical care for all is crossing the line, amirite?

communism never works! but just to be sure, lets just bomb all these communists countries... see? never works!

Probably not true. But I can't deny trips.
Pretty true the rust belt doesn't have any good universities.

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but others paid for him to go through public schools, and to pay services he used growing up, like libraries, roads, school lunches etc

this "fuck you i gots mine" mentality is so stupid...

Frankly, does it have anything good? Like at all?

Whiskey.... but that really exists because they sucked at making Scotch.
I guess they got country music and all that CULTURE

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ok, whiskey. I'll give you that one. Gotta say though, I disagree with that meme. Freebird was a pretty decent song.

Oh look, someone's butthurt and trying to give someone a seizure. Fag.

Senior has always been a raging dick

If you actually get a seizure from that gif then you're a fucking faggot.

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True that.
But at least Skynyrd abandoned the confederate flag like decent adults.

Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years
and never broke 3% gdp

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Capitalism brought you that phone your mommy bought you. And your laptop, your mommies car, vibrators basically everything you enjoy. Socialism leaves no incentive for anyone to create anything. There is no reward. Socialism can’t exist without capitalism but capitalism gives your pathetic ass the opportunity to get out of your mommies basement of get off your ass and go to work

Well yeah. You can't balance the deficit and still claim big gains.
And besides, if you are honestly worried about total debt spent... then I am glad to hear you won't be voting for Donald the Debt Machine

Are you joking? Every fucking social program is another leftist lead towards communism. We're already a socialist wet dream killing capitalism with all this cuck bullshit. Cut the programs and let the market be free.

The rich get rich because they are smart. They don’t steel it, we give them the money freely. Every time you buy anything someone is making money. If a lot of people like what you are selling then you will be rich also. Becoming rich doesn’t make others poor. This generation has learned nothing but to feel sorry for themselves and to ask others to solve their problems

Venizuaila you retard

Socialism doesn't work because individuality is the natural enemy of cooperation. As long as I get mine who cares what other people have right? The ego is a sickness and humanity a parasite. Launch the nukes, turn the whole thing off, this experiment has failed.

Except in Scandinavia.

No one cares. We just want healthcare, cheaper education, and policies that actually make sense.
It's not like we're going plunge into socialism with our healthy democracy and checks and balances. We'll be lucky to even get to a social democracy. The socialism you are brainwashed into thinking of are authoritarian autocracies.

pic related is David Pakman. check out his deep dive vids

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Because the forces of capital will never allow it. Google Salvador Allende.

Glad to know there's an unlimited amount of money in circulation! Should make something like implementing single payer health care a breeze!
Thanks, user!

Do you realize that just about every government program sucks and cost way more than the private sector. The only reason they stay alive is because they keep raising taxes or sterling from other programs like social security ( that we pay for through payroll taxes) please try to learn something today

lol. Not a real book-reader are ya?

Finnfag here.

2008. Banks loose big. Bail out = socialism.
You already live in socialist country.

because you're in the wrong place

Essential there is an unlimited amount. Do you think there is only a certain certain amount of money that we all have to share? You can’t be that dumb. What did you do in school besides hide your boner from your teachers?

That was how stupid Obama was. He should have let them fail

Stop feeding the trolls. Here's an idea. Let's vote out of office EVERY elected official in DC and start fresh. Can't be any worse than now.

>what's wrong with free education and free healthcare?
It's not FREE you fucking lying COMMUNIST nigger

Ya, man she saved NY from a bullshit deal of $3b in tax breaks. Right wing media, and a Koch funded billboard got proven wrong about the job losses after NY had a huge tech boom, but of course none of them reported on it.
wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-real-estate-savors-a-tech-boom-11562760760
youtube.com/watch?v=QBb733VAafY
youtube.com/watch?v=qVyVRRBx-f4&t=55s

Then why so much resistance to allowing the poor to have healthcare? Hell, why are there even poor at all if there's an unlimited amount of money to go around?
Your post makes zero sense. If there's an unlimited amount of money in circulation, the value will drop until it's basically completely worthless. Just look at Zimbabwe for an example. Everyone's a trillionaire over there, but nobody can afford anything.
You realize we only say that to trigger fucktards like yourself, right? We know it would be taxpayer subsidized. The money we'd be already spending on health insurance would be diverted into a national system similar to what most other developed nations have. Keep in mind that the very report commissioned by the Koch brothers to prove it wouldn't be sustainable showed net savings in the long run.
Besides, a healthy population is going to be more able to work, as opposed to a population that has to choose between seeking medical care for an illness or injury, and paying to keep a roof over their heads.

daily reminder that you will never have kids and die alone and unloved

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You Americans don't fucking know what socialism means. You're all fucking stupid.

>You realize we only say that
because you and your kind are full of lies and have no clue how to pay for your "free" shit other than confiscating wealth from anyone that has the audacity to be richer than you.

Rather than let people fall irrecoverably into debt they can never pay off because they broke their leg and insurance decided they didn't want to pay for it? No thanks, Bezos and the Waltons can cough up their fair share to make the nation a better place to live. I'm sorry that the idea of taxing the wealthy and reducing your overall burden should you fall ill or get injured offends you so much.

how will you pay for it after running the rich out of the country from punishing them for being successful? Making it publicly funded is a fucking retarded idea while almost all of the medical industry is private and for profit. You would just be perpetuating the problem we already have and jacking taxes up beyond 100%. Who cares about facts when all you want to do is bring everyone down so you can feel better about yourself. You lying commies are horrible at basic math, which is why it always fails.

>every government program sucks and cost way more than the private sector

Private insurance used to get 30-35% overhead.. Obamcare cut that to a max of 20%. Medicare does the same thing for about 5% overhead. So your premise is totally wrong.

What school of economics did you attend?

Well that ain't very fucking American of them then, is it?

>Conservatives are now just the flip side of the snowflake coin.
Letting a small Latino woman rent this much space in your head is pathetic.

the one that explains why you run out of money when you spend more than what you bring in.

You spelled trickle down economy wrong.

>please try to learn something today
someone probably told you this and it triggered you, so now you say it.
You sound like Dave Rubin, who is an absolute moron.
Social security and medicare are very successful and popular programs. Not everything is best solved with the free market, and healthcare is a good example of that. Medical problems, like getting cancer, are not like a product or service and don't follow supply & demand. Every other developed nation has has a more socialized version of healthcare than us and they all outperform our system. So please try and learn about that today.
And maybe once you realize the free-market is not some divinely-ordained force, you will also realize it doesn't proportionately reward wealth based on merit.

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As if it's American to punish success. Only a lazy entitled deadbeat commie would be triggered by someone having earned a thing or two.

>socialism has never succeeded in any country in the entire history of mankind.

There's like 20 successful democratic socialist countries at least.

The USA is also somewhat socialist. Blue states support the red ones mostly.

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USA is 16 trillion in debt and that's what you call proper capitalism? LOL....

Which is why the national debt plummeted after the GOP tax cuts!
Oh.
Wait.
Fuck. That isn't right at all now, is it? The 22 trillion in debt is fake news, right? The 2 trillion or so we've accumulated that's accelerated since the tax cuts is fake news, RIGHT?

What about every european country?

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Take off your blinders faggots. They are all the same.

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red state are fucked up welfare bitches. Fucking slack ass whore. We should cut them off and watch them drown in their own shitty economies.

Due to all the welfare programs, which you commies want worsen by spending even more for your "free" entitlements.

Nah, I'm merely suggesting that the US gets their shit together and lives up to the monkifer of the greatest nation in the world. If all these other nations can pull it off, why the fuck can't we?

and your solution: spend more money like crazy!

AOC actually has a degree in economics from BU. She was top of the class and valedictorian.

Trump was a C student and his dad bribed Fordham to get him in after paying off the military so he could dodge the draft 6 times.

so you didn't

He wasn't even a C student. He's D for dumb.

I don't think there are really any demsoc countries currently.
youtube.com/watch?v=k79wCaFgU40&t=734s

Start by kicking out those who don't belong they costs us billions. That's just hard costs, it doesn't take into account the increases in crime, dumbing down of our country, etc.

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You literally haven't read a thing I've typed. We're already spending that money on private insurance companies, and getting inferior results. The whole point of this is to cut out the administrative overhead and save money in the long run. Is that too difficult a concept for you?

What about Denmark and canada?? That's right you dumb moron keep spreading your hillbilly redneck bullshit, you'll sure become rich one day you work slave with capitalism.

Woman born into working class immigrant family. Succeeds against all odds in a mans world.

Trump born from a billionaire family. Gets handed everything, still manages to loose more money than any american tax payer ever (over 1 billion dollars in a decade) Known con man and cheat. Someone taps into working class stupidity to become a demagogue in his 70's.

I'm honestly ok with that. I have no love for illegals. I just want this country to be great, but we seem to have very different ideas of what that entails.

it's not spending it's investing.

Fucken criiiiiiiiiiiinge
These posts are even worse than the porn shit. Go back to pol faggot

But the US is still great. There are people coming over here in droves because of how great it is if you haven't noticed.

AOC may have some weak spots, but we absolutely need more political leaders like her who aren't part of the corporate machine and actually fight for the people.

Did you just assume Trump's gender, you Nazi?

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Because grades matter in the real world. When you get into it, you'll see college prepared you for very little when you start a real career.

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and the only thing you learned was how to spend other people's money.

THIS.
Seriously, instead of pissing money away into the pockets of insurance CEOs, we need to be investing in a healthier and more educated society. In both cases, said society is going to be more productive than a sick, dumb society that's dumping a hefty chunk of each paycheck into insurance just to not be able to afford the deductible when it's needed.

Yes. There are only two genders.

So literally every developed country that has free health care isn't socialist? Then what are conservatives always calling free healthcare socialist if it's not?

Or maybe they're running from violence and unrest in their home countries.
But I mean, that doesn't quite fit your narrative, right?

There's no such thing as 'free', it just comes out of someone else's pockets.
They, in turn, raise the rent/food prices/gas prices....

When will we ever EVER learn?

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This is your daily reminder to vote #YANGGANG into office.

Nope.

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I'm not arguing that there are problems with our health insurance situation. Just that full blown socialism alone won't solve anything.

Saying that could get you arrested for hate crime in Seattle.

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Reminder. Trumptards will never have sex with a woman that attractive.

You'd be wrong

worldpopulationreview.com/countries/democratic-socialist-countries/

Literally just takes a google search. You have to be willfully ignorant to be this wrong.

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I'm sad that no one got my joke

We can't invest in a more educated society until we take our balls back from the democratic PC faggots that are ruining this country.

We need to do two primary things.

1) Separate classes by ability. Classes learn at the speed of the dumbest kid. We hold everyone back because we have to treat everyone equally.
2) Only allow those who show the ability attend college. Not everyone need to (or should) go. If you don't have the ability you should be cut loose or offered a vocation program to be of use to society.

/thread

No one is talking about full blown socialism except straw man republicans. We're talking about a public option.

WE'RE
NOT
ADVOCATING
FULL
BLOWN
SOCIALISM
Jesus tittyfucking Christ. We want a system that fucking works. Other countries have a system that fucking works. We take some of those ideas and implement them. If that's your idea of full blown socialism, then I don't think this conversation will ever sink in.
Also, fuck these stupid Captchas.

Nice simplistic view of the economy you got there. Man I wish it was that simple.

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Lol what a fucking nigger. All those european countries have a market and everyone is allowed to own property. A socialist country does not allow the possession of private property so your premise is already woefully false.

She should just do porn

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And which of those that has anywhere near the population of the United States is successful?

Here's the list

Armenia
Bolivia
Ecuador
Iceland
Nicaragua
Northern Ireland
Portugal
Serbia
Venezuela

C student detected.

>Taxes should only be paid by people using services that those taxes go toward

Rightwingers are fucking stupid.

I'm 40 bro. I went to college for agriculture. I now work in agriculture. College prepared me for it. lol....

investing means you get a return. If you're dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into keeping some obese diabetic alive then where is that return?

it's naive to assume that people will actually bother to contribute back to society. there are way too many people my age that are still living with and freeloading from their parents and doing nothing with their lives.

she's so cute

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They could've stopped in several other countries along the way.

Show me the law. I believe you are bullshitting and misinterpreting the law.

>fairus,org

Alex Jones tier source. You might as well say illegal immigrants are making the frogs gay.

In an ideal America, the rich who make money off of the working class should be fined to maintain said working class. Otherwise, the resources just keep on staying in the top and less is left to be shared amongst the bottom. Eventually, the economy falls apart because their os no circulation of money. Inflation occurs and all that money the rich had been hoarding is suddenly worth nothing. This is why we need a UBI like what Yang proposed.

>Socialism doesn't allow ownership of private property.
Things people say when they THINK they know what Socialism is.

C's get degrees.

No job (after MAYBE your first) ever checks transcripts. Stop being a try-hard and get your dick wet.

College to be a farmer. Classic. :D

morons like you break equipment

Attacks source instead of providing something that actually refutes it (hint, you can't find it)

Not having illegals would cost more. There's a labor shortage in this county.

politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/

Lol are you in grade school or something kid. Marx himself said that a utopian society would involve a classes system and a stateless country. He himself argued that the state was only there to protect private property. To reject that premise is to reject all of socialism key foundations.

>We're talking about a public option.

>We want a system that fucking works.

But why is making it public the only thing you can come up with? You do realize that things that insurance pay for like drugs come from for profit businesses, right?

>politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/

Thanks, I didn't realize it was even more than what was stated there. And this is from a liberal rag.

"The $113 billion is not a net cost. Taking into consideration federal, state and local tax payments made by the undocumented population, the net cost would be about $99 billion, according to the FAIR report."

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they're fleeing from their miserable shitholes, not looking for work.

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>Not knowing agricultural science and horticulture is a stem degree

you didn't even go to college did you?

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Uhhh, no.

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United States sabotage.
Please drive through and kill yourself.

>dons't read article
>sees high random number pulls out of ass in headline

Confirmation bias pilots your brain like a fucking marionette huh?

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So you don't farm then?

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Alright, so what's your idea? It's obvious to both of us that the current system is busted. I want to hear your ideas on how to fix it. I've heard about opening insurance over state lines to create competition, which could work. What's your idea on how to fix it, and why the opposition to making it public, assuming overall spending would drop in the long run, and treatment results would not be negatively impacted?

What's socialism?

Socialism does allow the ownership of most property. Just not the ownership of property which is productive. If it is productive it must be considered the property of all, because the community as a whole must benefit from it

I can own a phone in Socialism, but I cannot own a factory.

Give us your read on it then genius.

Calls someone out for attacking source

Attacks source

No self-awareness about your blatant hypocrisy. What's it like to be a shit tier human?

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Not the person your arguing but what problem do you think needs to be fixed.

socialism is a concept originated from educated capitalists in an climate where capitalism was "taught" as being fractured and subject to failure and reversion to monarchies or oligarchies, it was the duty of socialism to restructure that shift into a new political movement

the flaw is that the mindset of the average human being has shifted through the last century to reject any and all monarchies and view most oligarchies (however entrenched) as being a negative, all governments are thusly shifting to capitalist mock-ups and capitalist nations are still going strong

however there will always be those dis-satisfied with the status quo and thusly they will fall back on the last conceptualized form of government (it being recent, making it modernized) and call for socialism, not knowing at all that it is literally just an art piece on how to reduce reactionary behavior and readjust to monarchist rule

the people rule, but the people should need a god, god is not real but man is real, so the people should need a god-man

The latest boogeyman for scared republicans.

>politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/

"The Heritage Foundation report found that in 2010, there were about 3.44 million households headed by undocumented immigrants and on average, each household received about $24,721 in government benefits and services, such as public education, police and fire protection."

That's called theft.

And be eaten by my cats. I've made peace with that.

>can't read
>asks an adult to explain

Demonstrates that both trumps number and the fairus number are baseless inflated numbers which include privet hospital costs and others privet serves which are not paid for by fed or state governments. Fairus provides no empirical cited evidence to back up any of it's claims. Trumps number is even more random, totally pulled it out of his ass.

what was the one before that, the irish?

No true scotsman. We cant have a debate on socialism because your definition of socialism is different t from mine. I dont see any point in continuing this discussion.

Still waiting on someone to point out anywhere that Socialism has been tried and not just Statism with a big 'Socialism' label over the top.

Still waiting for anyone to show how social policy in the US is in any way equivalent to the 'Socialism' (Authoritarian Statism) that has failed in the world.

Universal healthcare is not socialism.
Venezuela is not a socialist nation.
The USSR was not socialist either.
Neither was Nazi Germany.

communists

I'm 100% agreeing with the source. It's says illegals are not just trespassers, but thieves as well. They steal directly out of the pockets of the 47% of us that pay taxes. At least the 53% of leeches that aren't net taxpayers are US citizens.

It's always fun seeing trumptards defending the insurance companies when they themselves are paying exorbitant premiums to regulate their blood pressure and cholesterol levels.

Understand Venezuela and germany but how was the ussr not Socialist in the public level.

I think you are both reading it wrong.

"Estimating the costs of illegal immigration is extremely difficult and produces dramatically different figures, depending on the source. Yes, there are costs. But Trump is selecting the highest of all possible estimates from a range that varies widely."

They say there are costs, but nobody knows what that cost is because nobody really knows how many undocumented aliens are in the country.

I'm not going to claim to have an answer since I'm not an industry expert. But, we could start with less of this bullshit,
ft.com/content/48b0ce2c-b544-11e8-bbc3-ccd7de085ffe

Yeah dog, I'm a farmer. :/

It’s uncertain how much immigrants in the United States illegally cost taxpayers, but FAIR’s data is largely based on broad estimates and assumptions. Another report by a conservative think tank pegged the amount at about $85 billion a year. Reports by pro-immigration or neutral groups have come in significantly lower, and other reports have been inconclusive.

Estimating the costs of illegal immigration is extremely difficult and produces dramatically different figures, depending on the source. Yes, there are costs. But Trump is selecting the highest of all possible estimates from a range that varies widely.
mediabiasfactcheck.com/heritage-foundation/

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You work on a farm. I own a farm.

>this fag owns a jewphone and a laptop

No system had succeeded
Humans are dumb and can't into civilization
LOL at Asians being the most likely to succeed in civilization because they are so insect-like

socialism, communists, then socialism huh
guess it just makes sense, not like i know republicans as a "whole"

i''ll just laff and applod

Why do you want to put a large percentage of the 2.6 million people working in private insurance out of work? What do you think that will do to the economy?

Wouldnt the smart thing just be to legalize them to give them chances for REAL jobs that dont pay shit wages and force them to take up benifits.

you can support socialism by donating to my patreon for a free slightly used marshmellow

Wasteful spending on insurance. There's a lot of administrative overhead that inflates what we're paying out of our paychecks. On top of that, what hospitals and doctors we can reasonably see is dictated by our insurance, which is often dictated by our workplace. On top of that, you lose your job, not only are you losing your source of income, you're losing the ability to afford medical treatment unless you're paying out the ass for COBRA insurance. And if you're living paycheck to paycheck like many Americans are, myself included unfortunately, paying a deductible several hundred to thousands of dollars may well be impossible. Then you've got the fact that the insurance company may well just deny your claim for no good reason at all, even though you've been paying your premium religiously. Earlier this year, I was getting blistering headaches any time I got aroused. Doctor requested an MRI to rule out possible tumor or aneurysm. Insurance decided to flip me the bird. Thankfully, the symptoms subsided on their own, but I never did get an answer on what was causing it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been put through that, either, and I'm sure it's cost some people their lives.
Yeah, seriously, fuck that noise. I think you and I can both agree on that.

The fact that som many people can work in a department meant to be as cost efficient as possible shows you how broken it is.

they can already come here via legal means.

>Your definition
I think you mean THE definition. You clearly never read Marx or Engels.
The only defining aspect of both is that the people control and collectively own the means of production.

Also Marx and Engels used Communism and Socialism interchangeably. Lenin invented a non-existent difference between the two synonyms.

The community as a whole did not own or control the means of production. It was Authoritarian Statism.

Yes but that doesnt answer the question. Theres still some 11 million people in the us illegally. To throw them out would hurt the entire southwestern economy and likely throw us into a recession.

Does it include some gamer girl bath water? I'm not interested if it doesn't.

>It doesn't make any sense why other countries can have such programs and the US can't
compare population size and scale of national debt for norway vs US. then re-read the quoted sentence

Okay if you're going to pull shit fro. Wikipedia, I might as well too.

>Unlike the Marxian conception, these conceptions of socialism retained commodity exchange (markets) for labour and the means of production seeking to perfect the market process

Marxists socialism does not value markets and therefore, does not care for private property. Everything is communally owned and the distribution of materials themselves is decided by the community. No private property.

removing them wouldn't hurt our economy since they don't contribute to it in the first place. whatever money they get, they get it tax free and then send all their money back home to their family, thus literally draining our economy.

Bailout was a Bush program, retard.

>colorado
>red
disregarded the entire rest of the image because it's like it opened with bullshit on the level of "assuming there are time traveling witches..."

Compare US GDP as well then, and tell me we can't afford it.

We could afford to feed and house every American. We could afford that and more, if Conservatards weren't unreasonably afraid that high taxes would scare off business when historical context shows us that the years following tax increases have been some of the most productive on record.

More taxpayers. It'd scale. As for the debt, I'm sure we could find a way to cut unnecessary military spending. We're spending what, 50-55% of our national budget on the military? There has to be somewhere we can make cuts without sacrificing national security or cutting troops. I recall hearing of a bunch of fighter jets we had commissioned a while back that were outdated by the time they were delivered, so they never even got used. We could have used that funding elsewhere, and I'm sure there are more examples if we dig into the matter.

>AOC actually has a degree in economics from BU
bullshit she told me she's a struggling bartender and i believe her

No, but we would see a loss of labor which is infinitely more problematic than loss of capital. You can grow GDP over time, you can grow population unless the population is mandated to or you open up more immigration.

Shit, nigga, I'd vote for Camacho at this point.

‘earned’

>Because people can't work and attend college at the same time

>There's a labor shortage in this country.
>Automation is going to put an incomprehensible amount of people out of work, across the baord, in all sectors.
>There's a labor shortage in this country.

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We spend roughly the same on entitlement programs as we do on military. Not to say that the military needs cuts but we should keep that in mind. The irony is that the military is the most socialist complex in human history. People go there and get free housing, food, education, healthcare, all for an exchange of work.

those illegals can't get paid legally. besides, unemployment is its lowest ever. there wouldn't be labor issues, that is fake news and no reason to justify crime.

Daily reminder to vote #YANGGANG into office next november.

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That's why they're so mad.

>triggered
you know some of the rich you want to eat are people like gates and jobs who started with virtually nothing.

Hm, I stand corrected. My apologies. I think I was going off an outdated chart from way back when, probably when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were in full swing in the Bush years. And even then, I'm not sure how accurate that was to my point.

>unemployment is at its lowest ever
Yes that's the damn point. Do you think jobs just grow on trees. The fact that their are less people looking for jobs means that there are enough to go around. To remove them would cause less unemployment but their would be a shortage of manpower anyways.

the law is vague as fuck and interpreted inconsistently, which i believe you are smart enough to already know.
seattle.gov/police/need-help/hate-crimes-and-bias-crimes

if i identify as a third gender, and you aggressively say there are only two genders in a public place where it's possible for an alt-righter to hear you, i now fear for my safety. you just committed a hate crime in my view. therefore i will be calling the police, and the burden of proving your innocence is on you. in the meantime i recorded you saying it, and i will be bringing it to social media. good luck.

no thanks

To be fair, Gates still did his share of shady shit, but I'll give him that he started from basically the bottom.

Both went to prestigious colleges. Do you think startups just happen. Both of them made connections in college which allowed their projects to be funded. Why on earth do you think neither of them owned more than half the company when they got big.

They can still come here legally and work and actually pay taxes. Most of those jobs will get automated away anyway.

> Not everyone need(s college)
>vocation program
This so much.
College isn't for everyone, but anyone willing to work for it deserves to be successful.

It's not important to the point anyways. If we could somehow cut the military budget in half, we could remove all the old entitlement programs and start a new one like UBI that would guarantee people a quality standard of living.

both of them dropped out of college. I know this might be a difficult concept for you but they still had to earn their way. IBM was not a connection made through college.

Most college jobs are set to be automated away anyways making them even less useful. Vocational jobs and the trades are the only good paths to a successful financial future.

yang is fucking epic on paper but dude didn't even attempt to speak during the debate, and the few times they bothered throwing him a bone he totally blew it. dude would not survive more than 30 seconds in a 1 on 1 with a seasoned bullshitter.

porque no las dos?

The fact that they dropped out is inconsequential. They had a hobby which the school couldnt teach them anything knew about and needed capital to startup that company. There was no GoFundMe. No patreon. Only connections you made along the way that could help you and both of the managed to do so.

From Marx himself:
>You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine-tenths of the population; its existence for the few is solely due to its non-existence in the hands of those nine-tenths. You reproach us, therefore, with intending to do away with a form of property, the necessary condition for whose existence is the non-existence of any property for the immense majority of society.

Frequently Marx discusses the abolition of 'Bourgeoisie Property',that is private property which can be used to create capital. He also states on numerous occasions that this will not effect the ownership of goods which are nonproductive.

Therefore:
I can own a phone.
I cannot own a farm.

As it should be.

He said socialism never works

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That's actually my point. They EARNED their shit by WORKING for it. It wasn't given to them by rich parents.

They turned off his mike and only threw him two questions on the debate. That's officially the fastest way to kill a candidate. All those fucking retards at the actual conference cheered whenever someone virtues opposition to racism or sexism or women's rights but no one actually gave a fick to listen about policy. His biggest selling point which was ubi wasnt even given it's own question. Yang had a uphill battle against people not even in the same league as him.

it's amazing that you think making those connections is not a direct part of building your own success. if it's so easy to make a connection with someone who's capable of turning you into a success, then go do it. it's not like they made a friend who did everything for them out of the goodness of their heart. they sold themselves and their ideas so well to people who were then willing to take a COLOSSAL risk on supporting them that it made them successful. convincing other people that you are a worthwhile investment in and of yourself is not easy.

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Bullshit, nigga; everybody pays sales tax.

>Politics

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No need to work since we have so many sanctuary cities that will give you free handouts. Nice try, Beto.

College is part of the equation. You are most of the equation that prepares you. Read more, do more research, and prepare yourself. Go through your learning curve. Study your ass off. Lazy fuckers (like you) expect everything to be handed to you in the easiest, most lazy way possible.

Can't say I've really read up on the specifics of a UBI program, so I have no idea how that would play out. Are there even any countries that have attempted it thus far?
Let's face it, if automation gets to be as prolific as people say it will, it'll be an issue that needs addressed in the future.

False. It succeeded in Cuba

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U FUCKER

>this will not effect the ownership of goods which are nonproductive.
>Therefore:
>I can own a phone.
>I cannot own a farm.
one could argue that the digital landscape is more valuable than the physical, and this point is therefore retarded in 2019's world of smartphones and mass media.

I have a feeling neither of you know what the term billionaire means. These people have si much money they literally throw money at anything and see what sticks. I am willing to bet they were investing in the competitions stocks and wanted to see who came out on tip. It's all in the name making a profit. Gates and Jobs just happened to be the ones who got recongnized.

Rewarded for owning crap that doesn't produce. Punished and jailed for owning anything productive.

Good plan, Stan.

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One of the biggest misconception about ubi is that it's a problem for the future. People are losing their jobs to automation right now, specifically in manufacturing economies where thing safe made in an assembly line.

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so go pitch whatever shit you have in your head to a billionaire, and since they're so rich they'll throw money at ANYTHING to see what sticks, it'll be easy for you to then come back here with a screencap of a check from one of them. your point is they didn't do shit and it was easy for them. go prove it.

>i don't know what a sanctuary city is

And that at it's very core is wrong because it removes my ability as an individual to function independently in a society. If your ideal world is to level the playing ground by removing competition, then I dont think it's for me.

You are confusing social contracts with full on Socialism. The United States is not a socialist nation it is a Republic with a Rep democracy that utilizes social contracts that was theorized by people like Hobbes and Locke. There is a huge difference between social contracts of a society to exchange some freedom for Government protection. A full scale socialist government is completely different. Further your education and learn in government and philosophy so you can understand.

Quite fair. Unrelated question, you having connection issues to the site? Stuff's loading slow for me, and I just got a 502 trying to report the spam right below you. Probably my cue to turn it in for the night, seeing as it's going on 2:30 in the morning here...

imagine bringing up hong kong

Yes, they get to decide how to spend their money. You still have no entitlement to it. Earn it yourself if you think its so easy.

I didn't say that. A billionaire isnt going to throw money at company specializing in stone tools because that is outdated material that has already been done. They look for fresh ideas in an area that has much to offer and use their money there. If I had any competence for something like space travel and had a plan to make it cheaper, you bet you're ass I would be handed million dollar loans.

automation has been around for hundreds of years. jobs don't go away, they evolve. not a new problem in spite of your fearmongering.

Go to bed, Jim

then tell me if you're the expert.

What the fuck are you talking about their is less starving people now because they all died of starvation already

Jobs do evolve but everytime we see these types of movements, things get really had for everyone you have a large population of unskilled workers with no means of providing for themselves or their families. It leads to riots, property damage, scapegoating and tons of other things best left avoided.

Name one instance of that shit as a direct result of a job getting automated.

as a political science student and complete observer of this conversation from a spectator (engaging with it for the first time) i have to say: this has got to be some of the most reductive blind stabbing at dialectical reasoning in a time where material conditions should inspire vast protests and immediate direct action from not only the citizens of the United States, but citizens of the planet who believe in basic decency and don't want to see another "never again" situation.

you're living in it.

basically: y'all are gay

we gotta fucking captain planet larping nigger among us.

Your dead wrong, but by Yea Forums rules i have to admit you make sense. Godspeed user.fucking quads

A government that implements social programs is a socialist government. Your argument is semantics. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it's a duck. Just about every government in the world is socialist now. Socialism and capitalism aren't at odds. That's an old myth. Look at China, it's communist (socialist basically) and capitalist at the same time.

Ok smart guy, is China a communist country?

>Do you realize that just about every government program sucks and cost way more than the private sector.

Oh God, this bullshit.

Capitalists (translation: people who want lucrative government contracts) want us to believe that overhead + profit is somehow less than overhead alone. That profit part? Yeah, that makes anything the "private" sector does much more costly and inefficient than anything the government does and that's a plain fact shown by observation and logic.

>confiscating wealth

Oh, you means taxes? shit son, taxes are the basis of civilization. No taxes, no civilization. You are arguing against civilization. That's fine but none of us would live too long without civilization unless you're a subsistence farmer.

>how will you pay for it after running the rich out of the country from punishing them for being successful?

Historically, multiple countries have had revolutions where they killed all the rich and they seem to be doing fine now. France, China, Cuba, Russia, Cambodia, Vietnam. History shows you don't really need rich people for anything. Poor people do all the real work anyway. Rich people's job in civilization seems to be to collect trophy wives, hire hookers, do drugs. Great for the narco republics in latin america I guess.

The private pharmaceutical industry gets most of its R and D from government funded research. Like a lot of businesses today, rich leeches just sponge off of government sponsored innovation. The entirety of the drug industry should be nationalized.

The USSR was technically a "Republic" too.

My taxes are paying for this stuff, dipshit. Nothing is free.

Instead of the person who owns the business that does no work getting all the money, the people who work their asses off to make the business actually thrive get the money. Simple as that.

military is pretty much the common man's nanny state, to the point where we're spending money so nobody has to actually do anything to get shit from the state for free

the problem with the "spend money of X instead of the military" is that if you do that, and then we have a need for a military, you have to spend decades convincing people that its the right thing to do

it's happened twice, so far, and i don't think anybody wants it to happen a third time

the people's republic of china is also a kind of republic

Yeah we do

Medicare, failed
Medicaid, failed
Welfare, failed
CHIP, failed
Government funded police isn't socialism, it's a necessary tool for GOVERNING a country
Fire departments, again that's not socialism
Roads, not socialist
Parks, sure they haven't failed I guess
Just because the US has some public services doesn't make it a socialist country anyway, if anything it's a primarily capitalist country with some "socialist" policies.

Actual dumbass